oh jesus this thread has been invaded. please no one load to these speeds ever
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7mm SAW
- Thread starter Temper
- Start date
After last weeks shitty grouping continuation with the @CarbonSix 7 SAW, I decided to check concentricity, and the barrel threads are not concentric to the bore. All of my 9" cans leaned far enough with the alignment rod, that at the very end nearly had strikes. So, I decided, to try my 7" cans, and it was much better, but still cockeyed... But it was much more centered in the suppressor bore, than the longer 9" cans were, so I figured it would be less of a chance of causing any interference with the groups.
So, I decided to try my Magnus-S on the end to see if that would help... It actually, did, but still not enough for me to be remotely near happy with this barrel. I will be calling Gene tomorrow about a refund or possible replacement... A $1000+ barrel shouldn't be shooting more than 1/2-MOA at most with handloads.
So, here's today's groups... They were ALL shot with 45.0 grains of H4350, Berger 175 Elites, CCI 400's, 1x Fired/FL Sized Alpha brass, same everything...
So, I decided to try my Magnus-S on the end to see if that would help... It actually, did, but still not enough for me to be remotely near happy with this barrel. I will be calling Gene tomorrow about a refund or possible replacement... A $1000+ barrel shouldn't be shooting more than 1/2-MOA at most with handloads.
So, here's today's groups... They were ALL shot with 45.0 grains of H4350, Berger 175 Elites, CCI 400's, 1x Fired/FL Sized Alpha brass, same everything...
Gene is the main guy who runs CarbonSix. He's not a gunsmith or a barrel builder. He's just the one I've dealt with since the beginning, when the other shitshow about the .25 Creed barrel (that never came to be) got ordered. He has been very helpful, so I'm sure it won't be an issue, it's just frustrating when you drop that kind of coin on a barrel, and a factory Aero Precision (Ballistic Advantage) barrel is smoking it... It should be embarrassing for a company. Not to mention the fact I've burnt through almost $150 worth of Berger bullets, and a half pound of powder (x2 different powders), and 2 trays of primers just to fight a losing battle. It's not about the money, it's about burning through those components just to end up having to do all that shit over again when I get a new tube for it. It was all basically for nothing, and a bunch of wasted time.
And no, I don't use a gunsmith for the Solus rifles, I build them myself at home.
Oof, that’s bad.
Isn’t 0.5moa their guarantee?
Hilarious that this 7SAW thread with almost 700 posts isn’t stickied, but 10mm auto, 243ai, 22bra, 7lrm are all stickied w/ less than 50 posts
McGowan is owned by the same company as CarbonSix. CS uses McGowan blanks. So, this is probably par for the course. I’ll just get a refund and order a Proof blank from EB and have the awesome folks over at Blue Mountain Precision build it fit me, like they did my Solus .25CM prefit, that shoots 0.3xx MOA 5-shot groups.I had the same issue with two Mcgowen barrels.
Yeah, see here:If 1/2 minute is their guarantee, they owe me two barrels…
Popped the CarbonSix barrel off yesterday evening after work after emailing Gene that morning, and then talking to him that afternoon, and they sent me an overnight shipping label. It will arrive tomorrow morning. So hopefully by tomorrow afternoon we'll have some answers as to what is/was wrong with it. And a solution on it's way into the works (new barrel) on getting machined and on it's way to me. He still has to get another 7 SAW reamer (I think they rented the last one for my barrel). He said they already have another 20" 1:8 7mm barrel blank already built (wrapped, etc...), just hasn't been finished or chambered. So, it should be a fairly quick process getting a new barrel on the way.
Talked to Gene today, and since the muzzle threads are slightly off, they are just going to build a new barrel from scratch. Their CS has been excellent, I can't fault them for that. And lemons do slip through the cracks. Also, even if a barrel LOOKS perfectly fine in every way, sometimes something inside of it just won't jihaw and "act right". I'm thinking this is one of those cases, since he said a quick initial inspection showed the bore was perfectly fine (it wasn't undersized or oversized with the pin gauges), and the chamber looks great. So, we'll see. My main thing to figure out right now is do I want to go 7 SAW I or 7 SAW II?
After running some calculations tonight based on my Type1 chamber specs with the 175 Elite Hunters, and knowing that the freebore on the Type1 is 0.045" and the Type2 is 0.105", I extrapolated that if I was to have them chamber it to a Type2, I will still be jumping the bullets 0.080" just because that's as far as my AICS mags will allow to reliably feed without dragging the front of the mag box.
HOWEVER, there is always a second option... I could have them chamber it to a Type1, and then custom throat it another 0.035", and I would be able to seat them to the max mag length, and only be jumping 0.010", which would be ideal. I will probably go this route. Doing this would gain me an extra 0.031" length over the Type1 seating depth I was running, so that would help alleviate some protrusion of the boat tail into the case with compressed loads. Every little bit helps.
Thoughts?
After running some calculations tonight based on my Type1 chamber specs with the 175 Elite Hunters, and knowing that the freebore on the Type1 is 0.045" and the Type2 is 0.105", I extrapolated that if I was to have them chamber it to a Type2, I will still be jumping the bullets 0.080" just because that's as far as my AICS mags will allow to reliably feed without dragging the front of the mag box.
HOWEVER, there is always a second option... I could have them chamber it to a Type1, and then custom throat it another 0.035", and I would be able to seat them to the max mag length, and only be jumping 0.010", which would be ideal. I will probably go this route. Doing this would gain me an extra 0.031" length over the Type1 seating depth I was running, so that would help alleviate some protrusion of the boat tail into the case with compressed loads. Every little bit helps.
Thoughts?
Your math is off, because I don’t use standard AICS mags. I use the MDT steel mags with no front binder plate, which allows longer COAL compared to their standard AICS mags.
The Type 1 with the 175 Elite sits at 2.206” jammed. I had mine seated 2.200”, so 0.006” jump. And it was very deep into the case body. I was not a fan. Basically, going Type1 + 0.035” custom throating, will allow me to seat then an extra 0.031” (2.231”) out, compared to the regular Type 1 that is very constricted.
i'll only use a Type 2 .150 freebore myself. i ain't afraid of a little jump
I have a type 2 chamber, but I'm shooting 168 vld's. At 2.950 COAL I'm about 0.015 jump, iirc, which has been perfect (2.260 CBTO).
I decided to opt for the Type2 chamber. He already had the reamer there, so they said I should have my new barrel back by next week sometime.
Unfortunately, I'll be jumping them 0.080" just be able to fit into the magazine, but I'm jumping them 0.135" in my Christensen Arms 7mm-08 Rem to feed in the 700 length floor plate/feed ramp, and it's shooting 1/4 MOA 3-shot groups, so maybe they won't be so picky, and they'll actually shoot good. We'll see...
Unfortunately, I'll be jumping them 0.080" just be able to fit into the magazine, but I'm jumping them 0.135" in my Christensen Arms 7mm-08 Rem to feed in the 700 length floor plate/feed ramp, and it's shooting 1/4 MOA 3-shot groups, so maybe they won't be so picky, and they'll actually shoot good. We'll see...
Well, the new CarbonSix barrel showed up today... 1 week turnaround for a warrant claim, is impressive.
I did some measuring on it off the gun, since the action has that other spiral-fluted 6.5CM barrel on it right now. The 7 SAW-II chamber is noticeably longer than the Type-1, but not quite as far as the numbers suggest. After crunching the numbers before to make a guess on COAL, my estimate based on their freebore numbers on the website, show that it should have seated the 175 Elite Hunter to 2.311" base-to-ogive. But reality testing it was 2.300" on the dot. So, that means my jump after seating them deep enough to clear and feed from the AICS mag, will be anywhere from around 0.050" to 0.070"
I'm going to do the first round of testing on my other 6.5CM barrel first, since it's already spun on that action, and once I figure out how well it shoots, and get a quick load developed for it, then I'll spin the new 7 SAW barrel on, and restart load development. Probably in the next couple weeks (weekends).
Also, the barrel threads on this new CarbonSix barrel aren't 100% perfect (like a CNC cut barrel), but they're damn-sure MUCH straighter than the first barrel. This one is very close to center, so I'm not complaining, because it shouldn't affect anything, and it definitely won't get any baffle strikes like the first one had me worried about.
I did some measuring on it off the gun, since the action has that other spiral-fluted 6.5CM barrel on it right now. The 7 SAW-II chamber is noticeably longer than the Type-1, but not quite as far as the numbers suggest. After crunching the numbers before to make a guess on COAL, my estimate based on their freebore numbers on the website, show that it should have seated the 175 Elite Hunter to 2.311" base-to-ogive. But reality testing it was 2.300" on the dot. So, that means my jump after seating them deep enough to clear and feed from the AICS mag, will be anywhere from around 0.050" to 0.070"
I'm going to do the first round of testing on my other 6.5CM barrel first, since it's already spun on that action, and once I figure out how well it shoots, and get a quick load developed for it, then I'll spin the new 7 SAW barrel on, and restart load development. Probably in the next couple weeks (weekends).
Also, the barrel threads on this new CarbonSix barrel aren't 100% perfect (like a CNC cut barrel), but they're damn-sure MUCH straighter than the first barrel. This one is very close to center, so I'm not complaining, because it shouldn't affect anything, and it definitely won't get any baffle strikes like the first one had me worried about.
Here is my 25 saw.
26" Preferred Barrels Remage prefit
1:7.5 twist
Long action Remington 700 LH
Ag Composite stock
Using two bushings to neck down brass then through a mandrel. Using EC mandrel die
Running SW Long Rifle and will probably just run it. Shooting good with the 134gr eldm.
26" Preferred Barrels Remage prefit
1:7.5 twist
Long action Remington 700 LH
Ag Composite stock
Using two bushings to neck down brass then through a mandrel. Using EC mandrel die
Running SW Long Rifle and will probably just run it. Shooting good with the 134gr eldm.
Eric @ Blue Mountain Precision in Vernal, Utah does incredible work.
Has anyone loaded the 168 nosler accubond long range in a 22” barrel? Curios on powder preferences and velocities.
