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Horse Power, Track Shit, Torque, Cubic Inches, Liters, Run What Ya Brung, Auto or Cycle

EDIT: it seems the more I read on studs the common consensus is at least 1-2 threads protrusion from the nut so that tells me the shortest stud is out as my math tells me it will be at least 1 thread down inside the nut. Still open to others opinions.

Here's a question for the more educated/experienced on the topic... I've never messed with studs before.

Building an aluminum Ford 8.8 IRS for my Miata.

Doing what I can to keep any case flex under control so I am putting studs in the carrier caps. ARP makes them and they are only like 35-40 bucks so just an off the shelf part.

The 8.8 stud is 3.125 in length and I was TOLD this is to short for the aluminum case as the caps are different.

I was TOLD that I needed the 9" H case studs which are 3.400 in length.

There is also the regular 9" version which is 3.250 in length.

Well this was what I ended up with with the 3.400 length stud.



Now I didnt torque the stud into the case as I wanted to be able to return them if needed, but I cant imagine I get anything more than 1/4 turn as torque on a stud is only like 10 ft. lbs. And of COURSE the battery on my caliper was dead so I need to grab a battery later. I used a micrometer to eyeball it and its at least .250 long. Nut is also not torqued onto the stud(which would make stud protrusion even worse). So I may end up 1/4 turn further in, but then when torquing simply regain that same 1/4 turn giving me essentially nothing.

Here is the rear cover I will be using(ford performance cobra 8.8)... I dont have one on hand to actually measure for clearance. Just from looking at the picture I ASSUME I have enough clearance for at least the nut sticking out past the case. The caps stick out past the case as it is.




So with these 3.400 being obviously to long. My estimate is .250 to long. Do I go down to a 3.250 stud and have .100 estimated protrusion from the nut? Or do a I go down to a 3.125 and have the stud down in the nut a little bit(estimate .025)?

The other thing i have seen people mention is there is enough hole at the bottom that you can run a bottoming tap another ~1 turns in the hole which I think would eat up ~.07 of my extra .100 length and thus give me only .030 protrusion which is almost nothing.

I can get both other lengths to try, but I would like to avoid needing to do that if I can as returning them is a pain.

You're supposed to fill the entire length of the nut with full threads, which means that you'll typically want to have 2-3 threads protruding from the nut (the first couple threads on a bolt aren't guaranteed to be full due to manufacturing). So if you've got 20 TPI threads on the stud, you're typically forced into 0.100-0.150" of protrusion if you want to follow the rules. (Note: ARP themselves do not always follow the rules.)

Tapping the case with a bottoming tap is a fine way to start. You can also face the portion of the stud that goes into the case and pick up a bit of additional insertion (don't go crazy, obviously - just take off the "cup" that typically exists at the end of a rolled thread). That might get you sufficient clearance. Beyond that, I'd personally explore some options that involve ditching the thick washer in favor of a thinner part, shortening the stud and accepting the loss of the broached hex recess but also understanding that it's unlikely to be removed ever again, and/or clearancing the cover as necessary. The older I get, the more I find myself grinding the cheapest part first.
 
You're supposed to fill the entire length of the nut with full threads, which means that you'll typically want to have 2-3 threads protruding from the nut (the first couple threads on a bolt aren't guaranteed to be full due to manufacturing). So if you've got 20 TPI threads on the stud, you're typically forced into 0.100-0.150" of protrusion if you want to follow the rules. (Note: ARP themselves do not always follow the rules.)

Tapping the case with a bottoming tap is a fine way to start. You can also face the portion of the stud that goes into the case and pick up a bit of additional insertion (don't go crazy, obviously - just take off the "cup" that typically exists at the end of a rolled thread). That might get you sufficient clearance. Beyond that, I'd personally explore some options that involve ditching the thick washer in favor of a thinner part, shortening the stud and accepting the loss of the broached hex recess but also understanding that it's unlikely to be removed ever again, and/or clearancing the cover as necessary. The older I get, the more I find myself grinding the cheapest part first.

Guy on another forum with a very similar setup says my current protrusion is fine and will clear the cover I am looking at. I still think I am going to swap to the slightly shorter stud and have about .100 protrusion.
 
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You're supposed to fill the entire length of the nut with full threads, which means that you'll typically want to have 2-3 threads protruding from the nut (the first couple threads on a bolt aren't guaranteed to be full due to manufacturing). So if you've got 20 TPI threads on the stud, you're typically forced into 0.100-0.150" of protrusion if you want to follow the rules. (Note: ARP themselves do not always follow the rules.)

Tapping the case with a bottoming tap is a fine way to start. You can also face the portion of the stud that goes into the case and pick up a bit of additional insertion (don't go crazy, obviously - just take off the "cup" that typically exists at the end of a rolled thread). That might get you sufficient clearance. Beyond that, I'd personally explore some options that involve ditching the thick washer in favor of a thinner part, shortening the stud and accepting the loss of the broached hex recess but also understanding that it's unlikely to be removed ever again, and/or clearancing the cover as necessary. The older I get, the more I find myself grinding the cheapest part first.

Got the other studs that were .200 shorter... perfect as I am going to get.

 
I bent and broke the hitch on our John Deere ProGator due to some inadequate fabrication by the previous owner and maybe a bit of abuse on my behalf. Fortunately, the older boy earned his Welding merit badge at camp this summer and is ready for more practice.

Yes, the younger one is wearing shorts and sandals. He's been warned several times, but has always been the learn-by-personal-experience type when it comes to these things.

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Spent another great weekend at Ozark International Raceway. Car ran great, cant say the same for all the cars in my group.

Ended the weekend with a 2:58 lap which for 140hp is pretty good. Buddy with a similar car, but lighter went 2:55. My Garmin showed an optimum of 2:56 on one of the sessions so I know the car has more in it. I was really growing some balls in a few places and letting the aero hold me to the track and just going all out. Was up a bunch of Porsche GT3 asses all weekend LOL. If I had more HP(cant wait for the LS) I would be ravaging them.




One buddy went off first session on Sunday(same basic car as me) and his front splitter(wood) folded under and exploded. Took out his radiator, crank sensor, reluctor wheel, radiator mounts, and a few other things. His weekend was over...

Another was torquing lugs Sunday morning and discovered a massive crack in one of his rotors...weekend over.

One guy doing shake down in a Champ Car they recently got, lost the throttle... 2 of the 3 bolts on the throttle cable bracket were gone... easy fix with a run into town.

Buddy with C6 Z06 with built motor, cage, etc... has had lots of issues and finally thought they were solved... kept filling the air/oil separator and puking oil everywhere. Shop said "gotta be over filled, just keep draining it" and by the end of the weekend it was ok, but the car wasnt running right... wrong tune loaded... my buddy doesnt mess with that stuff so only one source of that... and the exhaust came loose because the clamps werent tightened...again shop was only one that touched it...

Had a C8 Z06 out in our group and he was sending it by the end of the weekend. Also had a regular C8, a Gen 6 Camaro ZL1 1LE, Porsche GT4, E46 M3 and a 2021 Miata ND(I used to own and sold it to this guy who has done a really nice build on it)...

So Sunday afternoon I was out and it was hot and I was about to come in a bit early and saw my buddy Peter with the Miata I sold him... I said "mother fucker" and spent like 2ish laps catching him and getting a pass and then slowly leaving him... I earned the pass. He was like "damn bro im super impressed by your car". Another session the guy in our group who had the E46 M3 came onto the track as I was going through turn 1(which is also pit out blend line). He chased me but we only had like 4 laps left and he couldnt catch me.

Tuesday I went and got a 4 post I had ordered 2 weeks ago and my neighbor helped me install it... the humidity had to be hovering at like 99%... miserable.



And when I was putting the Miata on it I discovered I have a coolant leak... oh joy... and where I think its coming from is almost impossible to get to and its easier to pull the head to repair so...we shall see.

I own a bunch of property right next to that track. LOVE hearing the cars run!
 
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You all likely know I have a little Italian car. It really is quite fun despite being a few years younger then I am.

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It is not in the best shape, but it is a fun little toy.

I have owned this thing for roughly 10 years, and I bet in that entire time I have put 100 miles on it. Now that I am retired I find myself driving it quite a bit more. If it is nice out I will take it if I need to go some where, so in the past 3 months I have done almost 300 miles.

I figured it would be a good time to really look over the car and make sure the wheels don't fall off (more on that later). When I got it I put it in the air, gave the car a good wiggle test, pushed and pulled everywhere and made sure things like tie rods, wheel bearings, it has king pins so no ball joints, but you get the point. Everything SEEMED fine.

Well today I decided I should really re grease the front wheel bearings, I had never done it, and while it feels tight, parts for these things don't grow on trees, and they are expensive.

Well on the left side of the car the front spindle nuts are normal, righty tighty leftie loosie. On the right side of the car it is the other way around, like on a car with knock offs. There is also no cotter key so you give the nut a hit with a punch and that is to keep it from backing off. To get the nut off you can just muscle it off or try to hit it with a very small chisel or something, generally you just twist hard.

This was looser then hand tight.....but I could not get it off. So I ended up cutting the nut across the top of the spindle as to not muck up the threads, there is a flat spot across there for the washer. It turns out I had no need to worry about messing up the threads, they are nuked.

I know what happened someone went lefty loosie and stripped the fook out of it. These nuts are not all that tight, I can't imagine how much force this idiot put on to strip those threads.

All that said, I thought everything was ok, but it was pretty far from it. I have a feeling the brake hardware was keeping the wheel from falling off.

I am not sure how far you should dig when you get a new "old" car, it did pass the wiggle test for bad bearings.

Just figured I would pass that on.

So now darn near $300 for a new spindle, and bearings for both sides (like why the hell not at this point) and the parts should be here in a few days.

I really doubt if I had paid for a "pro" to do the PPI I doubt he would have found this. Not sure what the take-a-way is from this long story, should you do a total tear down on the car, no that is stupid, would I take the the front end this far down next time before I buy, doubt it, but after the car gets home I think I will check to make sure that everything that holds the wheels on is done correctly.

The grease was pretty hard and the bearings nice and tight, so going in was a good thing to do, now to fix what others have done before me. Oh well, at least the parts are light.
 
Still waiting on my paint guy to make this thing look good, so in the meantime I'm wasting money trying to save weight with neat stuff like 4 piston calipers.
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Down to 2360lbs now, all the fiberglass parts the body guy will install will take me down to 2280. The plan is a nice even 1000kg with a full interior and original glass.

Loving the ITB life also. The sound is wild for a 4 cylinder. Video doesn't do the intake sound justice.
 
Something a friend has been working on and he tolerates me to sticking my nose in it here n there...

A Ford/GM marriage of sorts. "Ebony aaannnd Ivory. . ." Lol.

Windsor block with a pair of GM LT heads that I whittled on to fit. An earlier attempt with conventional LS heads slapped onto a junkyard short block with a "Woohan Wheezer" turbo netted near #### digit numbers on the dyno before the rods decided to leave the chat. With that one, the biggest expense was being laughed at by the cam grinder. It had to be made because LS valve orientation is backward from Ford. This new one however is easy money by comparison. LT valvetrain setup is identical to Ford so the camshaft options are wide open.

Cutting the intake in half and stitching it back together was interesting, but not a big deal. My winter project is exploring what it'll take to adapt the GM DI fuel pump to the Windsor block. We don't "need" it, but it would be stupid cool to be able to keep Direct Injection as there are some significant gains when using it. The intake has bungs as well so throwing the onion at it with a dual injector setup won't be hard at all. He went all in for this round. The heads have been worked on significanly and the bottom end is all baller stuff.

Nerds and long winters are fertile soil for dumb shit. Lol.
 

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Something a friend has been working on and he tolerates me to sticking my nose in it here n there...

A Ford/GM marriage of sorts. "Ebony aaannnd Ivory. . ." Lol.

Windsor block with a pair of GM LT heads that I whittled on to fit. An earlier attempt with conventional LS heads slapped onto a junkyard short block with a "Woohan Wheezer" turbo netted near #### digit numbers on the dyno before the rods decided to leave the chat. With that one, the biggest expense was being laughed at by the cam grinder. It had to be made because LS valve orientation is backward from Ford. This new one however is easy money by comparison. LT valvetrain setup is identical to Ford so the camshaft options are wide open.

Cutting the intake in half and stitching it back together was interesting, but not a big deal. My winter project is exploring what it'll take to adapt the GM DI fuel pump to the Windsor block. We don't "need" it, but it would be stupid cool to be able to keep Direct Injection as there are some significant gains when using it. The intake has bungs as well so throwing the onion at it with a dual injector setup won't be hard at all. He went all in for this round. The heads have been worked on significanly and the bottom end is all baller stuff.

Nerds and long winters are fertile soil for dumb shit. Lol.
That lower plenum should be outfitted with a spray bar or two and fog all of the things through it
 
Still waiting on my paint guy to make this thing look good, so in the meantime I'm wasting money trying to save weight with neat stuff like 4 piston calipers.View attachment 8531652
Down to 2360lbs now, all the fiberglass parts the body guy will install will take me down to 2280. The plan is a nice even 1000kg with a full interior and original glass.

Loving the ITB life also. The sound is wild for a 4 cylinder. Video doesn't do the intake sound justice.


ITB? Like SCCA ITB. I ran an 1st gen MR2 in ITA in the late 90's. Then built an Opel GT for ITB, it stayed that way for one season, then has things started for its move to Fprod. Then my back went kabang. Racing days are over. I can't get out of the car without help.

I still have the car however, and harbor the insane idea that I will do an open road race sometime or another. We will see if that ever happens.
 
I got some ZL1 wheels with nearly new tires for cheap. I like the look of these more than the SS1LE wheels (which are awesome, in their own right). The ZL1 wheels were from an early model and have some paint chips and the clear coat isn’t great. Perfect to be my track wheels and keep the originals in better condition. When these tires are trashed, I’m planning on reconditioning the wheels.

Stock SS1LE:
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Current setup:
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Still waiting on my paint guy to make this thing look good, so in the meantime I'm wasting money trying to save weight with neat stuff like 4 piston calipers.View attachment 8531652
Down to 2360lbs now, all the fiberglass parts the body guy will install will take me down to 2280. The plan is a nice even 1000kg with a full interior and original glass.

Loving the ITB life also. The sound is wild for a 4 cylinder. Video doesn't do the intake sound justice.

You were doing great with the lbs and then you went metric on us?
 
ITB? Like SCCA ITB. I ran an 1st gen MR2 in ITA in the late 90's. Then built an Opel GT for ITB, it stayed that way for one season, then has things started for its move to Fprod. Then my back went kabang. Racing days are over. I can't get out of the car without help.

I still have the car however, and harbor the insane idea that I will do an open road race sometime or another. We will see if that ever happens.
Nope, ITB as in Individual Throttle Bodies. If I was king of the world we would use ITB's as currency and a person's value to society would be graded on the induction noise of his car. If your exhaust was louder than your intake you might not be able to get a good job or a loan.
I'm only joking a little bit, the music a car makes is way more important to me than any numbers it produces.

I've always really loved those first gen MR2's, they are so 80's spaceship looking it hurts. Fun little buzzy engines also (that people often put ITB's on..).
The Opels I've always admired, both the shape and the headlight function, but have almost no personal experience with them so I have no clue what kind of personality they have.
 
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Nope, ITB as in Individual Throttle Bodies. If I was king of the world we would use ITB's as currency and a person's value to society would be graded on the induction noise of his car. If your exhaust was louder than your intake you might not be able to get a good job or a loan.
I'm only joking a little bit, the music a car makes is way more important to me than any numbers it produces.

I've always really loved those first gen MR2's, they are so 80's spaceship looking it hurts. Fun little buzzy engines also (that people often put ITB's on..).
The Opels I've always admired, both the shape and the headlight function, but have almost no personal experience with them so I have no clue what kind of personality they have.
As much as I love high hp forced induction builds there is always a place in my heart & soul for a bonkers n/a engine



 
As much as I love high hp forced induction builds there is always a place in my heart & soul for a bonkers n/a engine
Absolutely. In this day and age of turbos and hybrids, electric AWD Corvettes and every manufacturer thinking a car needs to have 1000+ hp, I really think Gordon Murray has it all figured out. Simple, light, and a beautiful NA engine that just happens to make respectable usable amounts of power.
Then we have Ferrari over here with a new twin turbo V6 hypercar that sounds like a food dehydrator...
 
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Top fuel and funny car races are absolutely insane. Start line, finish line, in the stands, doesn’t really matter
Friday night qualifying is the best at Bristol. Cool track and air temps make for some good runs.

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We go on Friday and Saturday and usually skip Sunday finals. The Bristol race had been on Father's day weekend until the covid BS. So that was my father's day gift. The smell of nitro, race fuel and gear oil and carnie food!!
 
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With 285 square Pirelli DHB scrubs, I beat my RE71RS personal best time around NCM by 2.59 seconds. Bring them into the temp/pressure window properly and scrubs will flat spoil you around a circuit.

Cleaner driving would have firmly gotten me into the 17s, and I think high 16s are possible in 2025...not bad for a 3800lb+ sedan with stock power.

 
As I recall GM used SAE on the power train and metric everywhere else. ??
IIRC the motor has SAE and the accessory bracketry is metric. I replaced the 305 with a 350 and had to remove the nose to do so. The cherry picker was too short to reach. The bumper and brackets were SAE and the body panels were metric.
 
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With 285 square Pirelli DHB scrubs, I beat my RE71RS personal best time around NCM by 2.59 seconds. Bring them into the temp/pressure window properly and scrubs will flat spoil you around a circuit.

Cleaner driving would have firmly gotten me into the 17s, and I think high 16s are possible in 2025...not bad for a 3800lb+ sedan with stock power.



Probably going there next fall with Chin end of September.
 
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Fuck me with all this fagot bullshit in this thread.
Lol... I kind of agree. Ive always had to do something different. 2006 I swapped a 5.3 into my 72 nova and fabbed up a turbo system...at the time no one knew what it was and it was one of a kind.. Now there are 3 on every city block. The cars been sitting now for a while and need to redo it, I do NOT want to put an LS back in it do to being the cookie cutter engine now. Im kind of up on the air and not sure what to do at the moment. 565-632 with a glide, or just a old school small block with a manual trans... Im so turned off by the LS stuff.... and I have half dozen of them in the garage and havnt fired up my TA with a turbo 6.0l since before covid. They are so popular is discourages me so much.
 
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With 285 square Pirelli DHB scrubs, I beat my RE71RS personal best time around NCM by 2.59 seconds. Bring them into the temp/pressure window properly and scrubs will flat spoil you around a circuit.

Cleaner driving would have firmly gotten me into the 17s, and I think high 16s are possible in 2025...not bad for a 3800lb+ sedan with stock power.


Fucking Deception took me a while to get down. Did a NASA race there and had a great time even though it was about 40 degrees and raining the whole time. Made working on the car a very wet and cold experience.

The car 2013 Mustang GT
3716 Pounds with driver, gear and cool suit ice box.
370 WHP
ST2 class (8:1)/ Normally ran ST3 (10:1) as I could never get the car down to 8:1
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