J.D Vance

Man, ALL of us have different beliefs. However, we have a core set of beliefs that draw us together. I've jumped into a few threads to challenge and have been challenged. Don't take it personally. Keep your cool and defend your position logically, or at least be ready to discuss the source of your values. We give respect to those who conduct themselves in this manner and that includes modicum of tolerance. Don't be like the libs, who can't defend their beliefs and have a meltdown the second they are challenged with facts and logic.
Interesting that you see the "libs" as melting down the second they are challenged. I make an observation of myself as moderate and independent, and the responses to that make you think I murder puppies (I don't) and I'm a liberal communist (I'm not). I look at the candidate, the issues, and line those up with my beliefs and values ... and make a decision about who I want representing me. Sometimes it's a Democrat, sometimes it's a Republican, and sometimes it's an Independent. Examples being that I'm pretty conservative on things like fiscal policy and the 2nd Amendment. I'm fairly liberal on a woman's right to make her own healthcare decisions, access to affordable healthcare, and my belief in a social safety net for those less fortunate than me. That's how I roll ... it doesn't make me "evil", but it does mean I vote my values and beliefs every time I'm blessed to have the chance to vote. Doing that requires compromise, both in my own mind and in the actions of the candidates I support ... and I get it ... compromise is a value in short supply here. Life goes on ... and I'm comfortable in my own skin as it relates to my vision and values. Did I mention how good and helpful the ballistics forums are on this site? :D
 
Interesting that you see the "libs" as melting down the second they are challenged. I make an observation of myself as moderate and independent, and the responses to that make you think I murder puppies (I don't) and I'm a liberal communist (I'm not). I look at the candidate, the issues, and line those up with my beliefs and values ... and make a decision about who I want representing me. Sometimes it's a Democrat, sometimes it's a Republican, and sometimes it's an Independent. Examples being that I'm pretty conservative on things like fiscal policy and the 2nd Amendment. I'm fairly liberal on a woman's right to make her own healthcare decisions, access to affordable healthcare, and my belief in a social safety net for those less fortunate than me. That's how I roll ... it doesn't make me "evil", but it does mean I vote my values and beliefs every time I'm blessed to have the chance to vote. Doing that requires compromise, both in my own mind and in the actions of the candidates I support ... and I get it ... compromise is a value in short supply here. Life goes on ... and I'm comfortable in my own skin as it relates to my vision and values. Did I mention how good and helpful the ballistics forums are on this site? :D
This pretty much proves the futility of DJT reaching someone like you. Who in the FUCK is against any adult woman, man, person, etc. making her own healthcare decisions!?!?!?!? What a load of complete bullshit. No one is against that, period, but clearly you are able to sell yourself any lie there is or ignore any fact there is to justify your politics. On top of that you have the temerity to take offense that your are being mischaracterized!!!

What you believe, by claiming that murder is "a health care decision", is that a human being isn't a person with human rights until some randomly selected point so that both women and men can avoid the consequences and responsibilities of unprotected sex. Said random point does not make you a moderate. It makes you an idiot when we can prove that a zygote is a complete and unique in all the world human at the earliest point of development, and that we keep developing from that point until we die. In order to justify that murder you are willing to pretend that it is just a health decision and pretend that there is not another complete human being that is being murdered. That's not a "moderate" position. It is a radical one that is in complete opposition to all our accumulated scientific knowledge. Unrestricted abortion is, in fact, a platform position in the Democrat Party, and to my knowledge there isn't a single Democrat in all the land who isn't pro-abortion. So your defense of your emotional and irrational decisions falls flatly out of the box. Facts and science has something to say about that (no religion required).

As to the platitude of being "pretty conservative on things like fiscal policy and the 2nd Amendment", how is that not negated by welfare and healthcare for all? You do realize that "healthcare" is not a natural resource, or a river where everyone can have a drink? It's a service provided by highly educated and trained people who spent years in school, and medication is a product that took millions of dollars to research, test, and then produce. So essentially you are telling us that if it's something good, that you want it, and that you think everyone should have it; instead of buying it from someone who is providing it for money, their time, money, and risk is worth zero, and you will take it by force, confirming almost every thing anyone here has said about your progressive politics. Not killing puppies, but that you honestly don't have any core convictions, and for whatever makes you feel good about yourself no matter what the reality is. That is what the Democrat Party is.

It's not even worth bringing up the 2nd amendment. If carrying weapons and defending ourselves isn't a natural right that comes from God and not government, then we really don't have any rights. Just about every right is a property right, and if you don't believe that any person's industry and time is their own, and beyond confiscation and distribution, then you don't really believe in any of them, and you aren't a citizen but rather a subject. QED.
 
Interesting that you see the "libs" as melting down the second they are challenged. I make an observation of myself as moderate and independent, and the responses to that make you think I murder puppies (I don't) and I'm a liberal communist (I'm not). I look at the candidate, the issues, and line those up with my beliefs and values ... and make a decision about who I want representing me. Sometimes it's a Democrat, sometimes it's a Republican, and sometimes it's an Independent. Examples being that I'm pretty conservative on things like fiscal policy and the 2nd Amendment. I'm fairly liberal on a woman's right to make her own healthcare decisions, access to affordable healthcare, and my belief in a social safety net for those less fortunate than me. That's how I roll ... it doesn't make me "evil", but it does mean I vote my values and beliefs every time I'm blessed to have the chance to vote. Doing that requires compromise, both in my own mind and in the actions of the candidates I support ... and I get it ... compromise is a value in short supply here. Life goes on ... and I'm comfortable in my own skin as it relates to my vision and values. Did I mention how good and helpful the ballistics forums are on this site? :D
I think that this comes down to one's world view. I respectfully disagree with yours and at the same time, I support your right to have it.
 
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He can have whatever view he wants. My point is that he's not just lying to the board, he's lying to himself because either he hasn't thought it through, or he's willfully ignorant in order to believe his beliefs and values line up.

To me, actually having a worldview that is based on principal and real virtues beats the situational morality and non-virtues of the left. God thinks so too. ;)
 
This pretty much proves the futility of DJT reaching someone like you. Who in the FUCK is against any adult woman, man, person, etc. making her own healthcare decisions!?!?!?!? What a load of complete bullshit. No one is against that, period, but clearly you are able to sell yourself any lie there is or ignore any fact there is to justify your politics. On top of that you have the temerity to take offense that your are being mischaracterized!!!

What you believe, by claiming that murder is "a health care decision", is that a human being isn't a person with human rights until some randomly selected point so that both women and men can avoid the consequences and responsibilities of unprotected sex. Said random point does not make you a moderate. It makes you an idiot when we can prove that a zygote is a complete and unique in all the world human at the earliest point of development, and that we keep developing from that point until we die. In order to justify that murder you are willing to pretend that it is just a health decision and pretend that there is not another complete human being that is being murdered. That's not a "moderate" position. It is a radical one that is in complete opposition to all our accumulated scientific knowledge. Unrestricted abortion is, in fact, a platform position in the Democrat Party, and to my knowledge there isn't a single Democrat in all the land who isn't pro-abortion. So your defense of your emotional and irrational decisions falls flatly out of the box. Facts and science has something to say about that (no religion required).

As to the platitude of being "pretty conservative on things like fiscal policy and the 2nd Amendment", how is that not negated by welfare and healthcare for all? You do realize that "healthcare" is not a natural resource, or a river where everyone can have a drink? It's a service provided by highly educated and trained people who spent years in school, and medication is a product that took millions of dollars to research, test, and then produce. So essentially you are telling us that if it's something good, that you want it, and that you think everyone should have it; instead of buying it from someone who is providing it for money, their time, money, and risk is worth zero, and you will take it by force, confirming almost every thing anyone here has said about your progressive politics. Not killing puppies, but that you honestly don't have any core convictions, and for whatever makes you feel good about yourself no matter what the reality is. That is what the Democrat Party is.

It's not even worth bringing up the 2nd amendment. If carrying weapons and defending ourselves isn't a natural right that comes from God and not government, then we really don't have any rights. Just about every right is a property right, and if you don't believe that any person's industry and time is their own, and beyond confiscation and distribution, then you don't really believe in any of them, and you aren't a citizen but rather a subject. QED.
Thank you for making my point.
 
Being handed a complete moral code by an omnipotent being has proven vastly superior to man making it up as he gos, which is a fount of historic evil and atrocity. I prefer a system of virtue and vice that is enduring, immutable, and in fact is supported by thousands of years of philosophy. I prefer actual virtues upon which people agree across cultures and across time. Turning neutral ideas like "diversity" and "equity" into virtues is literally the precursor for lauding actual vices. A fact that is already happening before our very eyes thanks to the wicked and corrosive social program of the Left.

Since when, and in what universe is actual "pride" not considered a vice? In almost every culture and every time pride goeth...
In what universe is "pride" in a persons own lust and adultery (sins) something to be celebrated? It's like a whole sin salad. If you can't forgive a Christian from thinking this is purely Satanic you're not paying attention.

I'm no prig. I have zero problem with what consenting adults want to do with each other. Nor do I care to live in a theocracy with harsh biblical punishments. I am a filthy sinner no better than the next, and I am the last to throw a rock. My ethos is not as an authority on clean, sinless living but as one of a sinner in need of redemption for knowing right from wrong and still choosing wrong. Be that as it may, my logos is that universal conceptions of right and wrong are the very things that allow us to live together in harmony and liberty, and once a segment of society no longer agrees on right from wrong it sets up inevitable conflict that can't just be reasoned out and compromised with or you set yourself up for a steady slide into chaos, from which you will get totalitarianism, which is the point of most of the left's program. The Pathos is that you are probably in the minority of people who believe in truly libertarian ideology, which to me is as unachievable as pure communism. Better to hold libertarianism as a guiding star, but with a heavy measure of practicality in it's application.

I don't NEED to bring God into it, but it does short circuit a long and contentious argument about right and wrong of whose written works alone could fill a library on their own.
 
Kinda hard to support someone’s “right” to declare another human being a non-person that it’s ok to kill if you find him/her and inconvenience.
I support the right to independent thought, even if I am vehemently opposed to the action. I support the death penalty for murder, but I don't support any penalty for murderous thoughts.
 
Aid and abet are legal terms completely detached from politics. When you vote for a democrat you are not aiding and abetting murder. People casting a ballot are not committing a crime.
I guess that kind of depends on your world view too huh? If you vote for murder and you vote for other abhorrent things, including abhorrent things done to children, then you damn sure aren't in the clear.
 
Man, ALL of us have different beliefs. However, we have a core set of beliefs that draw us together. I've jumped into a few threads to challenge and have been challenged. Don't take it personally. Keep your cool and defend your position logically, or at least be ready to discuss the source of your values. We give respect to those who conduct themselves in this manner and that includes modicum of tolerance. Don't be like the libs, who can't defend their beliefs and have a meltdown the second they are challenged with facts and logic.
It’s really simple. Democrats are non believers. You can’t believe what they stand for and believe the teachings of the Bible!
 
Was he a “community organizer?”
honestly I've seen so much garbage about vance lately. I assume some of it has to be true, but it has no bearing on my decision so I don't bother myself with it.
I've heard odd things about his little start up fucking the investors, things about how he got wierd credit lines to go to ivy league out of nowhere...
look if he's the real deal that'd be cool.
i voted red but I didn't like trump until he was president for like a full week, then I did a 180. maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised by jd too.
at this point I'd vote Trump/Lecter before Harris/wallz.
 
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honestly I've seen so much garbage about vance lately. I assume some or much of it has to be true, but it has no bearing on my decision so I don't bother myself with it.
I've heard odd things about his little start up fucking the investors, things about how he got wierd credit lines to go to ivy league out of nowhere...
look if he's the real deal that'd be cool.
i voted red but I didn't like trump until he was president for like a full week, then I did a 180. maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised by jd too.
at this point I'd vote Trump/Lecter before Harris/wallz.
Makin’ Fava beans and a nice Chianti great again.
 
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With Vance being a prior Never-Trumper, I suspect he is the deep state's preferred backup plan. Should Trump be eliminated somehow before or during his term, the deep state has their choice ready to slip right in.
 
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With Vance being a prior Never-Trumper, I suspect he is the deep state's preferred backup plan. Should Trump be eliminated somehow before or during his term, the deep state has their choice ready to slip right in.
I thought that at the very beginning but now I really feel like Vance was just trying to be a cool kid when he was new on the block by not liking Donald but supporting all his policies which is what he always did.
the more I learn about Vance the more I like him. I'm sure he's not perfect, but he's no Killary either.
 
With Vance being a prior Never-Trumper, I suspect he is the deep state's preferred backup plan. Should Trump be eliminated somehow before or during his term, the deep state has their choice ready to slip right in.
I believe he's deep state myself. Even if they don't off Trump, they're probably setting the stage for Vance to take over after Trump. They could get two terms out of him if they play their cards right.
 
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Hot take… Every career politician is “deep state…”
True. Trump is about the only one we can categorically say isn't, because every weaponized agency mobilized against him.
Their reaction to him be like:
the-thing-blood-test.gif
 
Vance is an opportunist who lacks consistent political values, aiming primarily to ascend the political ladder. His rapid shifts in position to align with his political ambitions are evident in his past actions.

His selection as the vice-presidential candidate is primarily motivated by the hope that he will attract votes from the rust belt.

During his last term, Trump struggled to deliver the jobs and economic growth he promised. By 2019, before the impact of COVID-19, his administration's manufacturing gains were negligible. The tariffs implemented under his administration largely benefited the elite, leading to higher consumer prices, while modern steel production remained predominantly automated.

The strategy behind choosing Mr. Vance is to divert voter attention from Trump's past performance and present Vance as relatable to those voting for him and not Trump.

People selectively overlook that U.S. economic growth had already slowed significantly before 2020. Once the initial excitement faded and policies were enacted, the economy began to falter. Trump's administration fell short of its growth targets by over 25%, with trends progressively worsening.

Additionally, rising crime rates (homicides particularly), an escalating housing crisis (with housing prices increasing by approximately 27%, the largest in history starting in April 2020 to the end of his term), and the pandemic-induced economic shutdown in 2020 by Trumps administration, which added substantial national debt, marred the last two years of his term. The Federal Reserve had to significantly raise interest rates to curb spending and temper demand, with limited success so far.

Trump grew the national debt quicker than any other president in modern history outside of Regan with his 180%+ additional debt.

The economic landscape was far from smooth during Trump's presidency. While the wealthy experienced significant gains, the poor saw little movement, and the middle class faced stagnant growth and increasing financial challenges, including new tax burdens due to the local tax caps under the TCJA. With the TCJA set to expire in 2025, ordinary citizens will lose many benefits it provided, while corporations retain their advantages. Consequently, the average taxpayer is likely to become poorer as result, with corporate profits increasing and tax burdens decreasing. Funny how that works.

Anyhow, as long as my guy wins what does it matter.

You're a Brainwashed Democrat. Welcome to the ignore list.
 
I believe he's deep state myself. Even if they don't off Trump, they're probably setting the stage for Vance to take over after Trump. They could get two terms out of him if they play their cards right.
He doesn’t have to be deep state yet. It is easy to bring him into the fold over time. He will become entitled and vulnerable, the honey pot created to play on his vulnerabilities will be presented, and another pizza warrior will be born.