WTF barrel worms?

4O6shootist · Nov 19, 2024

I have a Bartlein 6br, it's cut for a origin, put it on a solus for my nephews Christmas present this year. Had 400rd on it when purchased according to seller. It has some barrel worms. I used some thoroughclean on a iosso blue brush, and got rid some, reduced size of others. But OMFG I USED AND ABRASIVE! It shoots great! But it's a 6br, you gotta try to make them shoot bad.

Baron23 · Nov 19, 2024

SupressYourself said:
Maybe a plug-in style rod would be better.

Get a Golden Rod....I've had the same one in my safe for 30 years. Works well and is available for $20 on Amazon

Amazon.com : goldenrod safe dehumidifier

carbonbased · Nov 19, 2024

Baron23 said:
Get a Golden Rod....I've had the same one in my safe for 30 years. Works well and is available for $20 on Amazon

Amazon.com : goldenrod safe dehumidifier

I agree. I have two and they work.

Frank Green · Nov 20, 2024

SupressYourself said:
Reviving this thread...
I have recently been diagnosed with the dreaded "barrel worms".

This is my 22-250 barrel. I don't scope it every time I clean it, but I keep track of every round fired by date, and every cleaning.
It happened somewhere between 218 (2/13/22) and 742 (11/14/24) rounds. Looking at my notes, it's not uncommon for it to sit dirty for several months during this time span.

View attachment 8549777 View attachment 8549779 View attachment 8549780 View attachment 8549782

What's odd is that I scoped the rest of my 10 rifle barrels, and this is the only barrel with this issue. I even have another barrel from the exact same manufacturer that uses the same powder, and I've used a similar cleaning regimen on, and it does not have this issue.

Notes:
- All of this occurs in a section of the barrel about 3" to 6" from the muzzle. There is a lot of it in that stretch, but nowhere else.
- All rifles are stored in the same safe, inside my house, in the upper-midwest, with two of those rechargeable silica dehumidifiers.
- All barrels are stainless.
- All are cleaned primarily with Boretech Eliminator. -- I've never owned that M7 or whatever stuff referred to earlier in this thread.
- All rifles are shot suppressed.
- This barrel still shoots pretty well. I'd have to shoot it a bunch more to see if and by how much precision has decreased.

Now, I'll admit that my dehumidifying solution for the safe could be better. I don't stay on top of those rechargeable packs as well as I should. Maybe a plug-in style rod would be better. And obviously, I should clean them if I'm going to let them sit for a while, but I don't always know when that will be.

Any new thoughts from the crowd? Could I be lucky enough to summon @Frank Green ?

Considering the location of the "worms" is limited and none of my other barrels have this issue, I'm inclined to think that a defect in the steel could be a factor. However, this was not seen the 2 other times I scoped this barrel, at 0 and 218 rounds.

That's the funky part bud..... when and how it happens is kind of a mystery but that's what you have.... barrel worms!

Put the gun away dirty for X amount of time.... pitting/etching will occur even in SS barrels. Conditions the gun is stored in and type of powder used etc... are the big variables it seems. Moisture in the air reacts with the powder fouling is what does it.

Also I feel some solvents.... a guy doesn't get the barrel all the way clean.... and the solvent is left in the barrel and pools in spots.... and bingo.... etching/pitting/barrel worm BS shows up.

A couple of years ago... had a guy with a 223 bolt gun. Shot it suppressed for like 700 rounds. Put it away dirty for X amount of time... he got lucky... when he went to clean it and took the muzzle attachment off... the whole face of his muzzles crown was all pitted but nothing happened to the bore at all and the gun still shot great afterwards but can't explain how nothing happened inside of the bore and it was just regulated to the face of the muzzle crown.

I'd get some JB Bore Compound and or Rem. 40x cleaner on a patch only and run the cleaning rod and patch up and down the bore 10x. Clean it out and look at it again and see if you got it all or most of it out. Then shoot it and see how it shoots. Might get lucky and it will be o.k.

Other times.... the barrel doesn't come back and doesn't shoot anymore. I'd say a 50/50 chance on it.

Good luck!

Let us know the final result.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

high right · Nov 20, 2024

This thread made me nervous enough to carefully borescope all my barrels. I always clean right after shooting, always put a wet kroil patch down the bore. I may switch to ATF. I was told by a shop that sells VERY high end shotguns, that's what they use. Renaissance wax on the wood too.

SupressYourself · Nov 20, 2024

Frank Green said:
...I'd get some JB Bore Compound and or Rem. 40x cleaner on a patch only and run the cleaning rod and patch up and down the bore 10x. Clean it out and look at it again and see if you got it all or most of it out...

Thanks Frank. When you say "JB Bore Compound", I assume you mean the non-embedding bore cleaning compound, and not the Bore Bright, correct?

Frank Green · Nov 20, 2024

SupressYourself said:
Thanks Frank. When you say "JB Bore Compound", I assume you mean the non-embedding bore cleaning compound, and not the Bore Bright, correct?

Correct... the blue label... not the bore bright in the red label!

SupressYourself · Nov 20, 2024

Thanks.
It actually shot pretty well the other day. At least it seemed to be 'minute of prairie dog' out to about 300 yards, which is pretty much all I need it to do.

Baron23 · Nov 20, 2024

SupressYourself said:
Thanks.
It actually shot pretty well the other day. At least it seemed to be 'minute of prairie dog' out to about 300 yards, which is pretty much all I need it to do.

I'll add...iin sort of my own words...the technique that @Frank Green has detailed in the past for using abrasives.

1. Get a Parker Hale style jag...the type you wrap the patch around like rolling a cigarette
2. Use a slightly oversized patch for the caliber.
3. Apply the abrasive...I put a bit of Kroil oil on the patch and then apply the abrasive with my finger and rub it in.
4. Stroke the bore 10-15 times WITHOUT letting the jag/patch exit the muzzle. I have a metal disk that I put in a thread protector and screw that one. You can always back the muzzle up against a wall (if you are not to picky about the condition of the wall). For barrels with a brake, I use a piece of plastic inserted across the first gas ports. I Popsicle stick would work as well...that sort of thing.
5. Short stoke the first 3-4 inches of the barrel a bit more after long stroking.
6. Clean all of that stuff out thoroughly.

And I sort of like the JB more than the 40x. 40x does seem indeed milder but the proper JB (blue label) is fine also and seems to really get the job done. I don't do it too often, but I have done it on all of my barrels with good effect.

Caution from Frank also: do NOT wrap the patch around a brush and attempt to use that vice a proper jag. And don't chuck the rod into a drill. Ask Frank why and he may post the pics of ruined barrels again.

JAS-SH · Nov 20, 2024

SupressYourself said:
Reviving this thread...
I have recently been diagnosed with the dreaded "barrel worms".

This is my 22-250 barrel. I don't scope it every time I clean it, but I keep track of every round fired by date, and every cleaning.
It happened somewhere between 218 (2/13/22) and 742 (11/14/24) rounds. Looking at my notes, it's not uncommon for it to sit dirty for several months during this time span.

View attachment 8549777 View attachment 8549779 View attachment 8549780 View attachment 8549782

What's odd is that I scoped the rest of my 10 rifle barrels, and this is the only barrel with this issue. I even have another barrel from the exact same manufacturer that uses the same powder, and I've used a similar cleaning regimen on, and it does not have this issue.

Notes:
- All of this occurs in a section of the barrel about 3" to 6" from the muzzle. There is a lot of it in that stretch, but nowhere else.
- All rifles are stored in the same safe, inside my house, in the upper-midwest, with two of those rechargeable silica dehumidifiers.
- All barrels are stainless.
- All are cleaned primarily with Boretech Eliminator. -- I've never owned that M7 or whatever stuff referred to earlier in this thread.
- All rifles are shot suppressed.
- This barrel still shoots pretty well. I'd have to shoot it a bunch more to see if and by how much precision has decreased.

Now, I'll admit that my dehumidifying solution for the safe could be better. I don't stay on top of those rechargeable packs as well as I should. Maybe a plug-in style rod would be better. And obviously, I should clean them if I'm going to let them sit for a while, but I don't always know when that will be.

Any new thoughts from the crowd? Could I be lucky enough to summon @Frank Green ?

Considering the location of the "worms" is limited and none of my other barrels have this issue, I'm inclined to think that a defect in the steel could be a factor. However, this was not seen the 2 other times I scoped this barrel, at 0 and 218 rounds.

Hi,

I've been shooting all sorts of firearms for over 50 years. I've never had that problem. Why, maybe because If any of my firearms are going to sit for more than a week I will clean them right after use. I get it, some people think that cleaning a firearm all the time comes from the black powder days, and it does, but modern powders are still somewhat caustic. Worse, all powder residue absorbs a LOT more moisture than clean lightly oiled steel.

As someone mentioned above oil is important. Done right it protects metal from moisture penetration. Done right means don't leave any excess oil in the barrel. I use two mops for each caliber. One with oil and a dry one. I oil the bore and then use the dry one to remove the excess.

OK, all that said if you don't have that problem with other barrels then it's not your dehumidifiers. Decades ago I bought a cigar box hygrometer, calibrated it and threw it the safe. Cheap and perfect.

That said four years ago I bought the one made by Hornady, It's the two piece deal - battery powered. I use rechargeable AAA.s Works great It has a magnetic display that sicks on the outside of the safe and a separate sensor inside. On sale now for 26 bucks. They make a less expensive one but it's one piece and sits inside the safe. Mine, I don't need to open the safe, just look at the display panel. Here's the link: Hornady Hygrometer

Finally, just keep shooting and cleaning it or hit that section with Iosso. I use it on all my firearms no later that 300 rounds and never had an issue. Read the instructions!

carbonbased · Nov 20, 2024

JAS-SH said:
Here's the link: Hornady Hygrometer

Hey! I’m down with that! Thanks man!

JAS-SH · Nov 20, 2024

carbonbased said:
Hey! I’m down with that! Thanks man

NP! I use one large rechargeable bead dehumidifier and it works well as the Hornady hygrometer says. Picture below, stays in the fifties % humidity no matter the weather. Pics was just now:

ggmanning · Nov 20, 2024

A ggod read. I am in the never clean until accuracy drops camp. I never oil the inside of the barrels. I do keep 2 golden rods and a humidity guage in my safes and never have rust issues of any kind. Frank Greens info is always informative and right on, so I think I will start a light coat of Kroil on the guns I don't shoot regularly. My main rifles get shot regularly until the barrels are shot out but like everybody I have some that sit more than be shot.

carbonbased · Nov 20, 2024

Frank’s advice got me to clean (nearly) after every shoot. And I HATE cleaning.

What I pleasantly found out is that each cleaning became much easier! Which shouldn’t be surprising as that’s how cleaning, well, everything works.

So now this slob has at least one thing in his life that is clean, and regularly done at that (typed while eyeing that McDonalds cheeseburger that has been lounging upon his desk for 8 months lol still in perfect form! No rot!).

JAS-SH · Nov 20, 2024

carbonbased said:
Frank’s advice got me to clean (nearly) after every shoot. And I HATE cleaning.

What I pleasantly found out is that each cleaning became much easier! Which shouldn’t be surprising as that’s how cleaning, well, everything works.

So now this slob has at least one thing in his life that is clean, and regularly done at that (typed while eyeing that McDonalds cheeseburger that has been lounging upon his desk for 8 months lol still in perfect form! No rot!).

I don't like cleaning either! I worked out a system that makes it a lot more palatable. When I get home from shooting I run some dry first and wet second patches, then 15 strokes with a wet nylon brush. Then let it sit for an hour or two. I then get back to it with my favorite alcohol beverage in hand and finish it off.

The barrels DO clean easier. Another thing I never did was breaking in barrels.

Then I burned out a .22 Mag. barrel on my trainer after 13K rounds or so. Just for kicks I followed Lilja's instructions for the breaking in and OMG. Damn thing doesn't get dirty! just a few patches and it's DONE! I'm a convert now for breaking them in. It has to do with the bullet burnishing the surface of the barrel while removing all the copper, pretty simple to do on good barrels because it only takes 3-4 5 shot groups with some brushing with copper remover in between - DONE!

carbonbased · Nov 20, 2024

JAS-SH said:
I don't like cleaning either! I worked out a system that makes it a lot more palatable. When I get home from shooting I run some dry first and wet second patches, then 15 strokes with a wet nylon brush. Then let it sit for an hour or two. I then get back to it with my favorite alcohol beverage in hand and finish it off.

The barrels DO clean easier. Another thing I never did was breaking in barrels.

Then I burned out a .22 Mag. barrel on my trainer after 13K rounds or so. Just for kicks I followed Lilja's instructions for the breaking in and OMG. Damn thing doesn't get dirty! just a few patches and it's DONE! I'm a convert now for breaking them in. It has to do with the bullet burnishing the surface of the barrel while removing all the copper, pretty simple to do on good barrels because it only takes 3-4 5 shot groups with some brushing with copper remover in between - DONE!

Huh. I have never broke in a barrel. I just shoot it. Hmmmm maybe someday.

But heck yeah, way easier to clean when cleaned after each shoot! Plus it’s easier to remember what jag and patch to use lol

I do what Frank suggested, which is to use Hoppes and then let it sit overnight. Then clean. Seriously amazing.

SupressYourself · Nov 20, 2024

I have a Golden rod, Hygrometer, new jags, and JB bore compound on the way.
But I think the most important thing I learned is to clean more often, not just after a certain # of rounds.
I'm not sure how well I'll actually follow that though... After cleaning, I'm not confident in my zero until I shoot it a bit. That's fine for range time or matches, but I need to be able to just grab a rifle and go hunting.

JAS-SH · Nov 20, 2024

SupressYourself said:
I have a Golden rod, Hygrometer, new jags, and JB bore compound on the way.
But I think the most important thing I learned is to clean more often, not just after a certain # of rounds.
I'm not sure how well I'll actually follow that though... After cleaning, I'm not confident in my zero until I shoot it a bit. That's fine for range time or matches, but I need to be able to just grab a rifle and go hunting.

I too have an impact shift but it's minimal at 100 yards - 3/4 Moa or less.

That said, it got me thinking so I experimented. First, I tried running a dry patch or two before shooting and what I found out was that oil in the barrel, no matter how insignificant was still having a cleaning effect on the barrel. SO, the the first patch did not come out perfectly clean.

I thought that could have an effect on the first shot. For shooting paper I don't bother with it, a second shot and it's back in business.

But, I kept thinking about shooting critters. That led me to the solution (no pun). Now if I'm shooting critters I will pull the gun out the night before the hunt and swab a couple of patches with medical grade isopropyl alcohol. They sell it at any drugstore and a bottle for this kind of use will last you for years. Normal stuff at drug stores, etc. is 70% and the medical grade is 91%. You want to use the 91%. which is sold pretty much at all stores.

After a couple of patches it evaporates very quickly an there are zero residues left - a pristine ready to shoot barrel.

high right · Nov 20, 2024

I've had 2 barrel makers that can look at a barrel and tell it wasn't broken in. Not mine, but I've heard him say it after a borescope and confirmed by the owner.
I break them in since then.

tekmann2377 · Nov 21, 2024

After reading about issues like this I have moved to at least a brief cleaning after every time I shoot. I used to be in the camp to never clean until accuracy falls off. I absolutely agree that leaving the barrel wet overnight with Hoppes is very effective as a start.

Now for those who have had issues despite at least some cleaning/oiling after shooting... Have anyone here tried an actual dedicated corrosion protectant? I have an aviation background and products like ACF-50 and Corrosion-X Aviation are used to prevent corrosion on EXTREMELY expensive parts that make a quality barrel look like pennies in comparison. They are designed to coat and penetrate deep under contaminants that cause corrosion.

I have moved to using Corrosion X and after doing some experiments have concluded it is superior to regular oils. I do not have a borescope though so checking if it has abolished "worms" hasn't been possible.

SupressYourself · Nov 21, 2024

tekmann2377 said:
Now for those who have had issues despite at least some cleaning/oiling after shooting...

I'm not sure anyone that cleans after shooting has had this problem.

JAS-SH · Nov 21, 2024

tekmann2377 said:
After reading about issues like this I have moved to at least a brief cleaning after every time I shoot. I used to be in the camp to never clean until accuracy falls off. I absolutely agree that leaving the barrel wet overnight with Hoppes is very effective as a start.

Now for those who have had issues despite at least some cleaning/oiling after shooting... Have anyone here tried an actual dedicated corrosion protectant? I have an aviation background and products like ACF-50 and Corrosion-X Aviation are used to prevent corrosion on EXTREMELY expensive parts that make a quality barrel look like pennies in comparison. They are designed to coat and penetrate deep under contaminants that cause corrosion.

I have moved to using Corrosion X and after doing some experiments have concluded it is superior to regular oils. I do not have a borescope though so checking if it has abolished "worms" hasn't been possible.

Agree with all of this, and yes, Corrosion X is terrific. We used it a lot on expensive boats. The only thing I don't do is leave Hoppe's 9 in the barrel overnight. I tend to forget I put solvents on a gun that has to be removed and that's risky.

Hoppe's 9 is excellent and I've used it forever but it's still a solvent. Also has an ingredient called ammonium hydroxide. It's ammonia diluted with water. something like what's used in some window cleaners, except window cleaners are made to quickly evaporate dry. Ammonia is caustic and water is corrosive to metal.

The only product I've found that I can be confident to leave in the barrel or overnight or longer is Patch Out. I'm sure there's more safe products around....

carbonbased · Nov 21, 2024

JAS-SH said:
Hoppe's 9…has an ingredient called ammonium hydroxide. …Ammonia is caustic and water is corrosive to metal. [edited for brevity]

Hmmm, you appear to be right, at <1%.

Since @Frank Green has been doing the “soak overnight” thing for a long time, I’m not worried, but that’s interesting to know.

Hoppe’s liquid No. 9 Safety Data Sheet (SDS)
(also attached)

https://www.hoppes.com/on/demandware.static/-/Library-Sites-HuntShootAccessoriesSharedLibrary/default/dwbd6a431d/productPdfFiles/hoppesPdf/sds/1000-101_SDS_No_9%20-Bore_Cleaner_liquid-Revision_11_4517.pdf

All Hoppe’s SDS

Safety Data Sheets - Hoppe's

View all Hoppe's product safety data sheets.

www.hoppes.com

carbonbased · Nov 21, 2024

JAS-SH said:
The only product I've found that I can be confident to leave in the barrel or overnight or longer is Patch Out.

I used to use patchout. this was before I had a borescope, and before I cleaned after most every shoot. So I don’t know how great a job it does.

I read a post on SH about issues with the product and pitting. I did some research here:

For the Love of God, GI Joe and John Wayne.... cleaning and abrasive cleaners

My bottles are at least 8 years old if not older. I have been down in NC for almost6 years and they moved down with me and I had them for a while before that.

www.snipershide.com

I’m not saying there’s definitely some isolated issues, but I’m also not saying that it’s great.

Then one day I opened my bottle and got hit with a strong-ass whiff of ammonia. Just like some of the guys who got pitting.

Not saying it WAS ammonia. But, weird. I discarded both the accelerator and the patchout. My stuff was fairly old.

The deciding factor for me was his website. It’s really a carnival barker-like experience. Often guys that pitch products like that are…strange…and might do strange things at a greater rate than others.

Total gut feeling. No proof, may mean nothing. But his site always activated my bullshit meter.

Benchrest guys love the stuff.

Hell, maybe there are dudes with Hoppe’s No. 9 horror stories too.

I’m not sure what’s up, but I guess I’m just going to trust a barrel maker over everybody else.

JAS-SH · Nov 21, 2024

carbonbased said:
I used to use patchout. this was before I had a borescope, and before I cleaned after most every shoot. So I don’t know how great a job it does.

I read a post on SH about issues with the product and pitting. I did some research here:

For the Love of God, GI Joe and John Wayne.... cleaning and abrasive cleaners

My bottles are at least 8 years old if not older. I have been down in NC for almost6 years and they moved down with me and I had them for a while before that.

www.snipershide.com

I’m not saying there’s definitely some isolated issues, but I’m also not saying that it’s great.

Then one day I opened my bottle and got hit with a strong-ass whiff of ammonia. Just like some of the guys who got pitting.

Not saying it WAS ammonia. But, weird. I discarded both the accelerator and the patchout. My stuff was fairly old.

The deciding factor for me was his website. It’s really a carnival barker-like experience. Often guys that pitch products like that are…strange…and might do strange things at a greater rate than others.

Total gut feeling. No proof, may mean nothing. But his site always activated my bullshit meter.

Benchrest guys love the stuff.

Hell, maybe there are dudes with Hoppe’s No. 9 horror stories too.

I’m not sure what’s up, but I guess I’m just going to trust a barrel maker over everybody else.

I hear you. Personally I use Patch out if I'm going to soak overnight, which is rarely. That's why when I mentioned it I did so with the overnight soaking caveat. By the way it contains no ammonia.

As much as it pains me because the products are so freaking expensive I have slowly but surely migrated to Bore Tech for regular use. I use the Carbon cleaner and the Copper remover. Dam expensive but they work.

I buy the 16 ounce bottles. Those last quite a bit and $5 bucks cheaper by weight than the four ouncers. Been using Bore Tech now for over 2 years. Every 300 rounds or so I use Iosso with their nylon brush - 10 passes.

For my shotguns I use Hoppe's exclusively.

Frank Green · Nov 26, 2024

Again guys... they type of cleaner, how much was put in, how it sat in the barrel or stored standing upright or horizontal... how the stuff pools and where and the conditions the gun is stored in... you can shake a stick at it all day long at times and not come up with a hard conclusion.

I don't use the Hoppes benchrest solvent etc... just regular Hoppe's 9. I've used it as my primary cleaner since the 80's and use it to store all my guns. Never had a issue.

I've used Sweet's 7.62 Solvent for cleaning as well when I'm in a hurry mode since the late 80's/early 90's but I use it and get it out of the bore. This is 5% ammonia. The way I clean... I've never had Sweets do anything funky but again... I don't leave it sit in the bore and I don't store any of my guns with Sweets etc...

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

7mm-08 Freak · Nov 26, 2024

I am too lazy to read 4 pages of reply's. What was it and how did it get there?

SupressYourself · Nov 26, 2024

Corrosion of some sort, and we're not positive why. Likely by leaving the barrel too dirty for too long in (possibly) higher than ideal humidity conditions... maybe.
Powder type and cleaning agents are still suspects, but no arrests have been made.

My takeaways: Clean more often and leave a thin layer of some type of corrosion inhibitor in the bore.

SupressYourself · Dec 4, 2024

Update:

I cleaned the affected barrel using JB Bore compound the way @Baron23 detailed in post 159 above. After shooting about 10 rounds to settle it back in, I shot these two groups (scope adjustment in between).

Still very much 'minute of prairie dog'.
I don't think the dreaded "barrel worms" is necessarily a death sentence, but I am going to be more mindful of cleaning and storage. Currently the golden rod has my safe running about 40% humidity.

JAS-SH · Dec 15, 2024

Cleaning a rifle, and how that changes over the life of the barrel - a video by Brian Litz.

My 6mm ARC has about 1500 rounds though it and that has changed the cleaning regimen. Looks now that I can no longer go 3-400 rounds without a major cleaning that involves IOSSO. I tested this with my borescope this weekend and now it's going to need that type of cleaning between 100 and 200 rounds before the accuracy drops.

Brian Litz video:

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