Family Holiday Drama: Thanksgiving Edition

LuckyDuck · Friday at 3:03 AM

Question for the Hide on their experiences with aging family members and holiday traditions. We're a week out from Thanksgiving and still haven't a clue on what the proverbial plan is. A lot has changed over the recent years. On my wife's side- her grandmother used to host her side of the family at her house and likely did so for over 60 years. She passed away last year so that familial tradition is now operating in a void this year.

On my side of the family- my Aunt used to host Thanksgiving for us but about 3 years ago health issues stopped her from being able to host and my mother (very apprehensively tried to fill in). Well my Uncle (said Aunt's husband) also passed away last year and my Aunt is in a rehab facility from recently breaking her hip. My own parents are having health issues of their own which complicates them from hosting Thanksgiving this year and now I'm in a situation resembling a Spiderman meme on who's going to catch the hot potato.

My brother lives in a different state and cannot come up to PA for a turkey dinner. My wife's sister lives in a different state but will be up for Thanksgiving but it seems that both sides of the family are looking at us to pick up the Thanksgiving torch this year. My apprehensions there are that we (1) just purchased the house this year and are still waiting on the furniture we ordered to be delivered and (2) Admittedly I'm very reluctant to enter this holiday as a host because I absolutely believe we'll end up being 'stuck' with it for years to come. To add to the 'joyful' nature of the situation, neither sides of our families necessarily interact with each other either so it's not like it'd be a harmonious joining of families if we did bite the bullet and hosted.

All that said- I'm not looking for any counseling on my family situation here, rather I'm just venting and wondering if anyone else has run into similar family issues with Thanksgiving/Holidays and if so- if they'd be willing to share what the issues were at the time, how they dealt with it, and what the hindsight option was.

Tis the holiday season and it brings out the absolute 'best' in families am I right?

-LD

KYAggie · Friday at 4:42 AM

You forgot the part where you all now have Covid and can’t host. Game over.

GUN NUT in IA · Friday at 6:08 AM

As time goes by, traditions change.

This should not be a surprise, when you notice everybody sitting around the table . . . using their cell phones.

myronman3 · Friday at 6:42 AM

no idea why this is an issue. ain't nothing wrong with doing the givings alone. i did it for years. made some stovetop and roasted a chicken, steamed some asparagus and made an apple pie for me and my two young boys. everyone was happy. no need for drama or bullshit.

as far as cell phones go....easy. as everyone filters into the house, their cell phone is placed in a basket. if they don't want to put it in the basket, sit out in the car. i had that rule implemented at times, too. works great. you just have to have a set of balls and stand firm. your house, your rules. don't like it? GTFO.

D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷ · Friday at 7:06 AM

Bullfrog08 · Friday at 7:18 AM

It's easy when you're single and no family. You spend the commercialized holidays doing whatever the fuck you want. No family drama, no hurt feelings, no running between families, and no weight gain. Just another day. Not for everyone, but perfect for me!

philly1010 · Friday at 8:15 AM

zeroz · Friday at 9:04 AM

We had the same thing happen when both my grandmas died. I have big families on both sides and up until then it was always at grannies and everybody came. 40+ of us in a small house. I have had aunts that have tried to take it over here and there but people got non committal and in general just kinda gave up on it. Most of them seem fine with doing the immediate family thing. I kinda miss the big family get togethers. We seem to have a Christmas thing every few years and 75% at best show up. I'd be happy to host but Im 3-4 hours away from most of them and everyone doesn't want to make the journey down here. I have had a few down here and there but it is a drive for folks and I get it, as I have to do it all the time. I'll make a couple dishes and be doing turkey day with the neighbors who invited me since the old lady has to work. I'll bring her a plate home.

If you want the family to continue getting together, you're the new host. It sounds like you do, but you dont want to put in the effort. Auntie did it for a long time and it was important enough to her to put in the effort. You'll have to decide that for yourself. The furniture thing isn't a real reason, just an easy excuse. Its family, they wont/ shouldn't give a fuck if they are bringing/ sitting on camp chairs this year.

HPIguy · Friday at 9:10 AM

GUN NUT in IA said:
As time goes by, traditions change.

This is spot on. We are doing both Thanksgiving and Christmas here at home. For the first time in 49 years, I'm waking up in my own bed on Christmas day. We are doing the usual spread for Thanksgiving, gonna smoke a turkey and some butts, etc. Christmas is a pot of chili and cornbread. Don't like it, bring your own food or just don't come at all if you're gonna bitch about it. The wife and I are starting our own traditions.

rjacobs · Friday at 9:11 AM

When my grandparents were getting up in age(late 2000's into early 2010's) and arguing about who was hosting, my dad called bull shit, and we started going out to some decent restaurant and he paid the check for like 15-20 people and we left and everybody was happy...

For a few years after that it seemed it was way to much trouble to travel, people were working(we work in an industry that operates 24/7/365), etc... and if we could get together we did, but nothing crazy...

Now were back to being able to do Thanksgiving again, but with a much smaller family, about 6 or 7 of us... so were going out to a restaurant again... $50 per person for salad/soup, turkey or prime rib, potatoes, vegetable and desert... and then you go home... No drama of who is hosting, who is staying where, who is cooking what, etc...

Longshot231 · Friday at 9:11 AM

All of my family are just liars, cheats, thieves, alcoholics and nut-cases. I have nothing to do with them.

Friends are nicer to me than relatives. I usually get an invitation from one of them. If not, then peace at home alone is better than eating with POS relatives.

BTW, Bob Evans in my area is open for Thanksgiving. And I really do like their turkey.

Smokeshot · Friday at 9:21 AM

Wife’s grandma passed in 2020 (terminal cancer) and my in-laws have been hosting ever since. Everybody enjoys it and I personally love it when the house is filled with relatives and kids running around. Our niece is a libtard but she has enough sense to not engage any of us in a political debate lol. Everybody talks shit about the democrats and the libtards

. I look forward to this every year.

My parents (Indian) are psychotic assholes who disowned me for marrying a white woman. Long story short, it’s pretty friggin funny that a rural conservative white American family loves me more than their own while my colored parents wish I and my family were dead lol. Fuck ‘em and Happy Thanksgiving in advance.

EddieNFL · Friday at 9:51 AM

My wife lives for family holidays. Oldest and his family arrive early next week. Youngest lives nearby. Friday, I take my boys and the older grandkids to the range. They’ll burn through a few thousand rounds and have a literal blast. I probably won’t fire a single round and have the most fun.

Giving the oldest grandson (ten) a rimfire this year.

jbuck88 · Friday at 10:59 AM

It's always nice to see the family for the holidays.

There are a finite number of family gatherings for all of us and it get less every year. So we do the best we can to put our differences aside and find commonality. To each their own though.

akmike47 · Friday at 11:43 AM

Smokeshot said:
Wife’s grandma passed in 2020 (terminal cancer) and my in-laws have been hosting ever since. Everybody enjoys it and I personally love it when the house is filled with relatives and kids running around. Our niece is a libtard but she has enough sense to not engage any of us in a political debate lol. Everybody talks shit about the democrats and the libtards . I look forward to this every year.

My parents (Indian) are psychotic assholes who disowned me for marrying a white woman. Long story short, it’s pretty friggin funny that a rural conservative white American family loves me more than their own while my colored parents wish I and my family were dead lol. Fuck ‘em and Happy Thanksgiving in advance.

My family loved my cousins Indian ex-husband, still do.

Californio · Friday at 12:53 PM

I hate genetic mutated dry white turkey, going to try two Heirloom Turkeys this year. One spatchcocked in the smoker and one in the barbie, outside where the drinking is done. Going to my SIL's ,open door for Marines without a place to go, family stopping by, youngest is working the ICU, so will not see her until evening, just to pickup a plate of food. Next year my SIL will PCS so no traditions in our family.

kenny1773 · Friday at 12:57 PM

On my side of the family, my mother would always host and cook etc etc etc and when she passed away 10 years or so ago no one picked up the tradition and my side of the family just stopped getting together and no one really seemed to care or made an attempt. I think we all realized that whomever spoke up and said we should keep doing Thanksgiving would automatically be elected host

So tell whomever spoke up, thanks for volunteering what time do you want us to be at your place?

On my wife's side, they make it easy, when we lived a 10 hour drive from them, we didn't participate, but when we moved closer and lived about an hour away we would go every year. Her family is HUGE, so no one's house could accommodate.

They rent a local banquet hall for fairly cheap and many of the family chip in some cash to help pay. Everyone brings food and/or the hall they rent has a full kitchen, we cook food there.

I don't mind buying food, cooking food, hanging out with family, cleaning up, etc, what I don't want is everyone piled into my house getting drunk and never leaving

So the rental works out great. There is a start time a stop time, a trash dumpster to throw everything away, plenty of parking, dozens of long tables, well equipped kitchen, I cook, clean, pay for some food, pay some towards the rental, I can setup a propane turkey deep fryer anywhere

We moved away once again and don't want to travel, but will move closer in a year or so and will pick it back up with her side of the family.

Bullfrog08 · Friday at 1:32 PM

Longshot231 said:
All of my family are just liars, cheats, thieves, alcoholics and nut-cases. I have nothing to do with them.

Friends are nicer to me than relatives. I usually get an invitation from one of them. If not, then peace at home alone is better than eating with POS relatives.

BTW, Bob Evans in my area is open for Thanksgiving. And I really do like their turkey.

So, you won't be carving the Turkey this year?

zeroz · Friday at 2:18 PM

Californio said:
I hate genetic mutated dry white turkey, going to try two Heirloom Turkeys this year. One spatchcocked in the smoker and one in the barbie, outside where the drinking is done. Going to my SIL's ,open door for Marines without a place to go, family stopping by, youngest is working the ICU, so will not see her until evening, just to pickup a plate of food. Next year my SIL will PCS so no traditions in our family.

Brine is the answer. Especially for heirlooms. Good chance they dont have the fat as their pen raised brethren.

Maser · Friday at 2:30 PM

As much as I love big gatherings that involve good food, good company, drinking, and just having fun in general, I have to say as I have gotten older I like small quiet gatherings with my immediate family better.

The D · Friday at 2:34 PM

D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷ said:
View attachment 8551615

Another idea; put psilocybin shrooms in the stuffing

Sounds like you’re stuck with a family gathering no matter what this year. Do the best you can and see how it goes. Maybe you luck out and everyone has a great time so this ends up being a low-ish stress family tradition going forward. Or you could get “lucky” with everyone arguing and having a terrible time so you don’t ever have to do this shit again…

My family holidays were always pretty nice. Both sides of my family always worked out the plans for holiday gatherings fairly early in the year so everyone knew what to bring, where to go, etc. It also helped immensely that we all lived pretty close to each other and always saw everyone. Now that some of us kids are grown and moved away the holidays are a little smaller or have morphed a little. Some holidays, both sides of my family gather together instead of separate.

Good luck with it, hopefully everything works out in your favor

Im2bent · Friday at 2:37 PM

HPIguy said:
This is spot on. We are doing both Thanksgiving and Christmas here at home. For the first time in 49 years, I'm waking up in my own bed on Christmas day. We are doing the usual spread for Thanksgiving, gonna smoke a turkey and some butts, etc. Christmas is a pot of chili and cornbread. Don't like it, bring your own food or just don't come at all if you're gonna bitch about it. The wife and I are starting our own traditions.

Beans?

DocRDS · Friday at 2:55 PM

Seems appropriate.

You're miserable with em, and you miss em like hell if you don't get together.

Maser · Friday at 3:14 PM

Supersubes · Friday at 4:10 PM

LuckyDuck said:
Question for the Hide on their experiences with aging family members and holiday traditions. We're a week out from Thanksgiving and still haven't a clue on what the proverbial plan is. A lot has changed over the recent years. On my wife's side- her grandmother used to host her side of the family at her house and likely did so for over 60 years. She passed away last year so that familial tradition is now operating in a void this year.

On my side of the family- my Aunt used to host Thanksgiving for us but about 3 years ago health issues stopped her from being able to host and my mother (very apprehensively tried to fill in). Well my Uncle (said Aunt's husband) also passed away last year and my Aunt is in a rehab facility from recently breaking her hip. My own parents are having health issues of their own which complicates them from hosting Thanksgiving this year and now I'm in a situation resembling a Spiderman meme on who's going to catch the hot potato.

View attachment 8551586

My brother lives in a different state and cannot come up to PA for a turkey dinner. My wife's sister lives in a different state but will be up for Thanksgiving but it seems that both sides of the family are looking at us to pick up the Thanksgiving torch this year. My apprehensions there are that we (1) just purchased the house this year and are still waiting on the furniture we ordered to be delivered and (2) Admittedly I'm very reluctant to enter this holiday as a host because I absolutely believe we'll end up being 'stuck' with it for years to come. To add to the 'joyful' nature of the situation, neither sides of our families necessarily interact with each other either so it's not like it'd be a harmonious joining of families if we did bite the bullet and hosted.

All that said- I'm not looking for any counseling on my family situation here, rather I'm just venting and wondering if anyone else has run into similar family issues with Thanksgiving/Holidays and if so- if they'd be willing to share what the issues were at the time, how they dealt with it, and what the hindsight option was.

Tis the holiday season and it brings out the absolute 'best' in families am I right?

-LD

Just say no. This is a pattern I established with my family years ago, works like a charm.

HPIguy · Friday at 4:12 PM

Im2bent said:
Beans?

No beans, lots of meat. With a little luck, some fresh ground venison.

Ronws · Friday at 5:43 PM

LuckyDuck said:
Question for the Hide on their experiences with aging family members and holiday traditions. We're a week out from Thanksgiving and still haven't a clue on what the proverbial plan is. A lot has changed over the recent years. On my wife's side- her grandmother used to host her side of the family at her house and likely did so for over 60 years. She passed away last year so that familial tradition is now operating in a void this year.

On my side of the family- my Aunt used to host Thanksgiving for us but about 3 years ago health issues stopped her from being able to host and my mother (very apprehensively tried to fill in). Well my Uncle (said Aunt's husband) also passed away last year and my Aunt is in a rehab facility from recently breaking her hip. My own parents are having health issues of their own which complicates them from hosting Thanksgiving this year and now I'm in a situation resembling a Spiderman meme on who's going to catch the hot potato.

View attachment 8551586

My brother lives in a different state and cannot come up to PA for a turkey dinner. My wife's sister lives in a different state but will be up for Thanksgiving but it seems that both sides of the family are looking at us to pick up the Thanksgiving torch this year. My apprehensions there are that we (1) just purchased the house this year and are still waiting on the furniture we ordered to be delivered and (2) Admittedly I'm very reluctant to enter this holiday as a host because I absolutely believe we'll end up being 'stuck' with it for years to come. To add to the 'joyful' nature of the situation, neither sides of our families necessarily interact with each other either so it's not like it'd be a harmonious joining of families if we did bite the bullet and hosted.

All that said- I'm not looking for any counseling on my family situation here, rather I'm just venting and wondering if anyone else has run into similar family issues with Thanksgiving/Holidays and if so- if they'd be willing to share what the issues were at the time, how they dealt with it, and what the hindsight option was.

Tis the holiday season and it brings out the absolute 'best' in families am I right?

-LD

TLDR:

So, Thanksgiving dinner at your house, minimal furniture?

I can bring my own folding camping chair.

Longshot231 · Friday at 7:25 PM

smoothy8500 · Friday at 8:29 PM

LuckyDuck said:
rather I'm just venting

zeroz said:
If you want the family to continue getting together, you're the new host. It sounds like you do, but you don't want to put in the effort. Auntie did it for a long time and it was important enough to her to put in the effort. You'll have to decide that for yourself.

You didn't come here for counseling, so we'll just point it out and walk on by. Then again, the homeless lunatic on the corner is "just venting" too....

sled_mack · Friday at 9:01 PM

If you are thinking of hosting, no one will notice the folding table and chairs. For years we brought in the picnic table. The things we worry about as hosts, no one else notices.

Another option is to host at a restaurant or buffet. My cousin hosted at Hershey Lodge a few years back and everyone still talks about it. Lots of options if you want to do something.

If you have kids, it’s more worth the effort. My dad’s side of the family wasn’t close. My dad is gone. I worked with his cousin for 3 years before he and I realized we were related. Help the younger generation to know their relatives.

Unrelated- where in PA are you located? I’m just north of Allentown.

Aftermath · Friday at 11:34 PM

We hosted for quite a few years every single gathering. Mainly because we had the room...just the 2 of us and our dogs in a 5 bedroom house and nice sized shop, lots of parking. Easy access, great location.

Now we are still building a 1 bedroom cabin and, eventually, a bigger shop. After the shop, I have plans to add-on a very large "great" room.

But we will likely never host again.

Also, if anyone wants to visit, there are hotels nearby.

Fuck all the drama.

theLBC · Friday at 11:55 PM

lol, at some point, it is your fucking turn. that is how traditions work.
embrace it and make it the best evar!

if your place isn't ideal, maybe you can do it at mom's or the aunt's house?

zeroz · 2024-11-23T08:00:08-0500

smoothy8500 said:
You didn't come here for counseling, so we'll just point it out and walk on by. Then again, the homeless lunatic on the corner is "just venting" too....

Its the pit.

Nik H · 2024-11-23T08:50:03-0500

I love Thanksgiving. It is great having everyone together to give thanks for the year.

The biggest factor is I get to smoke a giant turkey...LOL

Ronws · 2024-11-23T14:57:51-0500

Thanksgiving perfection is for Hallmark movies.

Folding tables, folding chairs, tv dinner trays, spreading out on a coffee table, whatever. Thanksgiving is about eating and drinking so much that you have to loosen your belt and pass out in front of the TV.

The, next morning, wake up too damn early, get up and sit in the freezing cold to see absolutely zero deer. Or worse, you see one on a neighboring property to which you do not have access. And that buck is going away from you, not towards you.

Grandpa is going to trick one of the kids into pulling his finger and then, when the green cloud spreads, they will regret it while Grandpa nearly herniates from laughing so hard.

Im2bent · 2024-11-23T15:11:01-0500

I'm visiting friends and family in Missouri they rent a hall and all the families bring a dish.

LuckyDuck · 2024-11-23T19:33:34-0500

myronman3 said:
no idea why this is an issue. ain't nothing wrong with doing the givings alone. i did it for years. made some stovetop and roasted a chicken, steamed some asparagus and made an apple pie for me and my two young boys. everyone was happy. no need for drama or bullshit.

as far as cell phones go....easy. as everyone filters into the house, their cell phone is placed in a basket. if they don't want to put it in the basket, sit out in the car. i had that rule implemented at times, too. works great. you just have to have a set of balls and stand firm. your house, your rules. don't like it? GTFO.

I missed an awful lot of Thanksgiving dinners over the years, and frankly, would have been perfectly fine throwing some corned beef and cabbage in a crockpot on Thursday and just having dinner with just me & my wife. Problem with that here is, the "stakeholder" families haven't had the same experience/share the same opinion.

-LD

chevy_man · 2024-11-23T19:39:42-0500

Wife's family is coming (Mom, sisters, husbands) and my Dad, sister, bil.

I'll be out hunting. Wife will put the prime rib in the smoker, and we'll eat.

Then I'll pass out in bed to get up and take the kids hunting again.

LuckyDuck · 2024-11-23T19:42:58-0500

jbuck88 said:
It's always nice to see the family for the holidays.

There are a finite number of family gatherings for all of us and it get less every year. So we do the best we can to put our differences aside and find commonality. To each their own though.

A lot of wisdom in this comment, appreciate you taking the time to share it.

-LD

LuckyDuck · 2024-11-23T19:46:34-0500

kenny1773 said:
On my side of the family, my mother would always host and cook etc etc etc and when she passed away 10 years or so ago no one picked up the tradition and my side of the family just stopped getting together and no one really seemed to care or made an attempt. I think we all realized that whomever spoke up and said we should keep doing Thanksgiving would automatically be elected host

So tell whomever spoke up, thanks for volunteering what time do you want us to be at your place?

On my wife's side, they make it easy, when we lived a 10 hour drive from them, we didn't participate, but when we moved closer and lived about an hour away we would go every year. Her family is HUGE, so no one's house could accommodate.

They rent a local banquet hall for fairly cheap and many of the family chip in some cash to help pay. Everyone brings food and/or the hall they rent has a full kitchen, we cook food there.

I don't mind buying food, cooking food, hanging out with family, cleaning up, etc, what I don't want is everyone piled into my house getting drunk and never leaving

So the rental works out great. There is a start time a stop time, a trash dumpster to throw everything away, plenty of parking, dozens of long tables, well equipped kitchen, I cook, clean, pay for some food, pay some towards the rental, I can setup a propane turkey deep fryer anywhere

We moved away once again and don't want to travel, but will move closer in a year or so and will pick it back up with her side of the family.

The 1st part of your comment is EXACTLY what my concerns were.

-LD

LuckyDuck · 2024-11-23T19:47:57-0500

Maser said:
As much as I love big gatherings that involve good food, good company, drinking, and just having fun in general, I have to say as I have gotten older I like small quiet gatherings with my immediate family better.

Completely agree with you. Anything more is just overwhelming for me frankly.

-LD

LuckyDuck · 2024-11-23T20:02:37-0500

sled_mack said:
If you are thinking of hosting, no one will notice the folding table and chairs. For years we brought in the picnic table. The things we worry about as hosts, no one else notices.

Another option is to host at a restaurant or buffet. My cousin hosted at Hershey Lodge a few years back and everyone still talks about it. Lots of options if you want to do something.

If you have kids, it’s more worth the effort. My dad’s side of the family wasn’t close. My dad is gone. I worked with his cousin for 3 years before he and I realized we were related. Help the younger generation to know their relatives.

Unrelated- where in PA are you located? I’m just north of Allentown.

I'm in South Central PA/Greater Harrisburg/Hershey Area.

-LD

LuckyDuck · 2024-11-23T20:04:47-0500

theLBC said:
lol, at some point, it is your fucking turn. that is how traditions work.
embrace it and make it the best evar!

if your place isn't ideal, maybe you can do it at mom's or the aunt's house?

Fair point- problem is the house is big enough to accommodate the festivities but still waiting on the couches/tables/chairs to be delivered. Also concerned that by making it there 'best ever' would only lock us into future hosting expectations.

-LD

LuckyDuck · 2024-11-23T20:06:46-0500

Nik H said:
I love Thanksgiving. It is great having everyone together to give thanks for the year.

The biggest factor is I get to smoke a giant turkey...LOL

View attachment 8552224

Totally get that- I love smoking up meats too but not for formal occasions. Also not a big fan of hosting/especially participating in efforts that are "expected" of me for some ridiculous reason. That bird looks amazing though!

-LD

akmike47 · 2024-11-23T20:12:20-0500

I usually eat then go sit on the porch and watch the cows while my nephews try to break my shins kicking me. Still better than listening to the awkward alternating silence, small talk, and bickering.

My uncle usually volunteers to work those days lol

Used to not be weird, people…

LuckyDuck · 2024-11-23T20:21:20-0500

Whelp- I lost the fight gentlemen and it's now a moot issue (at least for me). My wife volunteered us to host Thanksgiving and both families are rolling with it. This is sure to be... memorable if nothing else.

Either way, it's been a good discussion and please continue to share your experiences when running into this situation.

-LD

Ronws · 2024-11-23T20:41:15-0500

chevy_man said:
Wife's family is coming (Mom, sisters, husbands) and my Dad, sister, bil.

I'll be out hunting. Wife will put the prime rib in the smoker, and we'll eat.

Then I'll pass out in bed to get up and take the kids hunting again.

Now that sounds like paradise. Especially if the kids keep quiet.

I have heard it said that you should only take kids fishing if you don't want to fish because you will never get a line in.

Hey, just had a thought - could you adopt me, at least for the next good sit in the stand? I know how to be quiet and not move.

Maggot · 2024-11-23T21:06:17-0500

Maser said:
As much as I love big gatherings that involve good food, good company, drinking, and just having fun in general, I have to say as I have gotten older I like small quiet gatherings with my immediate family better.

Wait until you hit 75 or so Maze. I've outlived damn near all my relatives so I get to have a quiet day alone with a bottle of Horse Soldier Premium.

Ronws · 2024-11-23T21:07:16-0500

Maggot said:
Wait until you het 75 or so Maze. I've outlived damn near all my relatives so I get to have a quiet day alone with a bottle of Horse Soldier Premium.

Also heaven. Nuke a turkey dinner in the microwave. No muss, no fuss.

Nik H · 2024-11-23T21:07:27-0500

LuckyDuck said:
Totally get that- I love smoking up meats too but not for formal occasions. Also not a big fan of hosting/especially participating in efforts that are "expected" of me for some ridiculous reason. That bird looks amazing though!

-LD

I get it.

My wife and I love to entertain. I don't know what some of our friends would do if we didn't host.

At our place, we focus on the food and cocktails. Formality is unnecessary, except at Christmas.

If you haven't smoked a turkey, you haven't had turkey at its best.

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