STACCATO XC VS HAYES CUSTOM COBRA

Vinnie45ACP

Vinnie45ACP

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Feb 22, 2021
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#1
I can get a Staccato XC now and put an aluminum Grip on it as well as a Atlas flat short trigger (small hands), or wait and spend a tad more and get a HAYES CUSTOM COBRA which I have heard nothing but great things about. So for those that have had the AWESOME Fortune to handle both, thoughts? And for those that haven't but have a XC, have you done the Aluminum Grip mod and how did it shoot afterwards?
Thanks to all those who read and respond in advance.
 
#2
I shot XC , it is really soft recoil. I handle the Hayes at a shop. The fit and finish is top notch. The slide and frame is better or equal to Atlas. I currently own the atlas Erebus and I put my down deposit with Hayes Island barrel cobra right after handle the Hayes
 
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#3
Dave62677 said:
I shot XC , it is really soft recoil. I handle the Hayes at a shop. The fit and finish is top notch. The slide and frame is better or equal to Atlas. I currently own the atlas Erebus and I put my down deposit with Hayes Island barrel cobra right after handle the Hayes
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Can you tell me what the difference in the Ported Bull Barrel and the Island Barrel on the Cobra is? I was trying to decide, I probably won't complete, I have a NHC 45 and a Staccato C2 already and looking for a race run to just do Drills with and have fun with. But I also don't want to make a mistake on the build. They kinda mentioned that the Island barrel was more for competition but that's all I got from it. If you have more incite that would be great.
 
#4
Island supposed to be flatter since there is less slide mass moving. The island, island/ port, port, and comp are all fairly close in recoil however and the Hayes is a great gun!

I would not mess with the XC frame seems like a ton of cost for maybe 1% improvment.
 
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#5
For the Hayes bull barrel cobra, u can order 2 barrels. Both (ported & no ported) fitted your gun for additional 600 bux. It is great for shooter do different division matches. The Hayes island barrel currently wait time is about 12 months. To be honest, people said the island shoot flatter. But I doubt a non competition shooter can really feel a big differences. If you see one on the market place or store, get it.
 
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#6
Vinnie45ACP said:
I can get a Staccato XC now and put an aluminum Grip on it as well as a Atlas flat short trigger (small hands), or wait and spend a tad more and get a HAYES CUSTOM COBRA which I have heard nothing but great things about. So for those that have had the AWESOME Fortune to handle both, thoughts? And for those that haven't but have a XC, have you done the Aluminum Grip mod and how did it shoot afterwards?
Thanks to all those who read and respond in advance.
Click to expand...
As some of you know, I am an owner of a gun store with a rental fleet. We sell Staccato, Atlas, Watchtower, Wilson Combat, Nighthawk, Platypus, Prodidgy, Tisa, and then some one offs 2011s or double stack 1911s.

I have shot everything above that I listed but I have several thousand rounds through the XC. I had a race gun that I competed with made by Hayes that I no longer own.

If you look at the platform, a lot of people like them because they are very ergonomic and feel good in the hand. People that have had time on the 1911 platform take to them right away, same controls, kind of the same feel. They tend to be heavier and feel more substantial when compared to polymer striker fired handguns. A lot of people really like the safety mechanisms on the pistols, I can't tell you how many customers feel uncomfortable with internal safeties like in a Glock for instance.

So the specific pistols you listed I am going to categorize as high end range guns. Because of the porting or the compensator, you can't use them as competition pistols in most of the divisions in shooting sports except at the very high end (Open) and both of them are severely lacking in that division. I think that both pistols have triggers that are too light to be used as self defense weapons, this is a very arguable point but just my opinion. The Staccato is based on the model 70 Colt in that it is not drop safe which is a negative to me. I am not sure about the Hayes, some double stack 1911/2011s have the model 80 mechanism that makes them drop safe.

Of the Staccatos that I have shot and owned, the XC is the most frustrating to me. The spring is so light that if the pistol gets any gunk in it the gun will not go into battery so you have to clean it a lot. My solution to the problem was to contact Dawson precision and I bought heavier springs which helped quite a bit but in doing so I made it shoot a little less soft. As I mentioned above, I made the trigger pull a little heavier as well so for me I ended up turning an XC into a Staccato P which was kind of stupid. I had our gunsmith revert the changes and sold it.

For an average shooter, you will probably be a little more accurate and shoot a little faster with these pistols. The better you are with a pistol, the less you pick up going to one of these platforms versus something like a Glock. To explain this comment, at 7 yards shooting into a USPSA target. I can draw from a holster and empty a 20 round mag with all alphas in the 4.1 to 4.4 second range with most pistols. I do not really pick up significant amount of time going from a Glock to a Staccato. For an average shooter (less then 1k rounds a year) on the range, they will absolutely see a pretty big performance gain with a Staccato vs a Glock.

With respects to the metal grips and trigger. You can order Staccatos with aluminum triggers (curved and flat) now. I would not carry these pistols so to me I would prefer a steel grip module (Cheely for Staccato) and Hayes may make their own. I also prefer a working palm swell safety mechanism instead of the pinned but that is very much a user preference things.
 
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#8
ut755ln said:
As some of you know, I am an owner of a gun store with a rental fleet. We sell Staccato, Atlas, Watchtower, Wilson Combat, Nighthawk, Platypus, Prodidgy, Tisa, and then some one offs 2011s or double stack 1911s.

I have shot everything above that I listed but I have several thousand rounds through the XC. I had a race gun that I competed with made by Hayes that I no longer own.

If you look at the platform, a lot of people like them because they are very ergonomic and feel good in the hand. People that have had time on the 1911 platform take to them right away, same controls, kind of the same feel. They tend to be heavier and feel more substantial when compared to polymer striker fired handguns. A lot of people really like the safety mechanisms on the pistols, I can't tell you how many customers feel uncomfortable with internal safeties like in a Glock for instance.

So the specific pistols you listed I am going to categorize as high end range guns. Because of the porting or the compensator, you can't use them as competition pistols in most of the divisions in shooting sports except at the very high end (Open) and both of them are severely lacking in that division. I think that both pistols have triggers that are too light to be used as self defense weapons, this is a very arguable point but just my opinion. The Staccato is based on the model 70 Colt in that it is not drop safe which is a negative to me. I am not sure about the Hayes, some double stack 1911/2011s have the model 80 mechanism that makes them drop safe.

Of the Staccatos that I have shot and owned, the XC is the most frustrating to me. The spring is so light that if the pistol gets any gunk in it the gun will not go into battery so you have to clean it a lot. My solution to the problem was to contact Dawson precision and I bought heavier springs which helped quite a bit but in doing so I made it shoot a little less soft. As I mentioned above, I made the trigger pull a little heavier as well so for me I ended up turning an XC into a Staccato P which was kind of stupid. I had our gunsmith revert the changes and sold it.

For an average shooter, you will probably be a little more accurate and shoot a little faster with these pistols. The better you are with a pistol, the less you pick up going to one of these platforms versus something like a Glock. To explain this comment, at 7 yards shooting into a USPSA target. I can draw from a holster and empty a 20 round mag with all alphas in the 4.1 to 4.4 second range with most pistols. I do not really pick up significant amount of time going from a Glock to a Staccato. For an average shooter (less then 1k rounds a year) on the range, they will absolutely see a pretty big performance gain with a Staccato vs a Glock.

With respects to the metal grips and trigger. You can order Staccatos with aluminum triggers (curved and flat) now. I would not carry these pistols so to me I would prefer a steel grip module (Cheely for Staccato) and Hayes may make their own. I also prefer a working palm swell safety mechanism instead of the pinned but that is very much a user preference things.
Click to expand...
ok, that was a lot and a lot of good info and a lot of stuff I have heard before so good to know it is consistent, seems like a lot of the 1911/2011's have the drop issue if it is dropped barrel first.
So before I ask my question, I will preface by saying I understand and am trying to shoot more, tryting to get in 4-6K of Pistol rounds a year, would like for it to be more, but since I have to drive to my two Gun ranges I am a part of which are both a ways, that is the best I can do, but I am trying, and want to do more and researching that now as we speak. I have owned a truck load, SAO, Striker fired, DA/SA, more than the avg gun owner, and sold the same, I personnally have a serious flaw, always looking for that perfect feeling, in the hand type gun, perfect feeling trigger pull gun, mostly when it comes to Pistols, My shotguns and rifles have stayed pretty consistent, haven;t sold any of those, but a ass ton of pistols have come and gone. I have only kept and will keep a Custom NHC 45acp, a Colt Python 5" and a Colt Anaconda 4", all bucket list items. I have owned a Atlas but regretably sold it, now I kinda wish I had it back. My grip and recoil manangement have drastically improved and looking to nothing but BILL drills and 10/10/10 and more of the draw timed drills as I can find time, etc.

So, with all of that being said from you and from me, and maybe your not inclined to say since you sell, however, I love the 1911/2011 platform regardless of the drop issue, they are just a dream to shoot, you shoot those regardless of make, anything over $2K and compare it to anything else and nothing else compares, and I think most would agree on that regardless of price, the fit, finishand trigger feel fo a 1911/2011 is second to none, that is why you see so many more companies getting into the game cause the demand is there. I unfortunalty do not have access to all these like you do, just one LGS having the Staccato's but nothing high end to compare or feel. So I have to kinda go by what people on here or 1911addicts say or start buying several $5000 and playing test side by side, but other than a few rich people or people like you who test or sell, who can do that? So I do want 1-2 maybe even more in time, of these guns we have alluded to but at this time, this is my as well as most people's options is to go by word of mouth and trust even though everyones tastes and hand size is going to be different.

So of these guns you have shot and you have mentioned shooting, what you get for your money etc, what would you suggest, I feel right off the bat right like most that have replied and say skip the XC and get the HAYES, since it is probably the best bang for buck for what you get and shooting experience, but is there something I am missing, a Phoenix Trinity, The wasteland (whcih most has said it is nothing more than a better looking Staccato). Anyway I will leave it there and see what oyu have to say, thanks for the info and looking forward to hearing your recommendation's
 
#9
ut755ln said:
Of the Staccatos that I have shot and owned, the XC is the most frustrating to me.
Click to expand...
Yeah the XC seems silly to me. Can't carry it, not a duty gun, not a game gun. It's primary role is impressing people on reddit. Id rather have a shadow 2.

If you want a toy, go for it, but I typically like toys that I can at least pretend fit some type of role.
 
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#10
Vinnie45ACP said:
ok, that was a lot and a lot of good info and a lot of stuff I have heard before so good to know it is consistent, seems like a lot of the 1911/2011's have the drop issue if it is dropped barrel first.
So before I ask my question, I will preface by saying I understand and am trying to shoot more, tryting to get in 4-6K of Pistol rounds a year, would like for it to be more, but since I have to drive to my two Gun ranges I am a part of which are both a ways, that is the best I can do, but I am trying, and want to do more and researching that now as we speak. I have owned a truck load, SAO, Striker fired, DA/SA, more than the avg gun owner, and sold the same, I personnally have a serious flaw, always looking for that perfect feeling, in the hand type gun, perfect feeling trigger pull gun, mostly when it comes to Pistols, My shotguns and rifles have stayed pretty consistent, haven;t sold any of those, but a ass ton of pistols have come and gone. I have only kept and will keep a Custom NHC 45acp, a Colt Python 5" and a Colt Anaconda 4", all bucket list items. I have owned a Atlas but regretably sold it, now I kinda wish I had it back. My grip and recoil manangement have drastically improved and looking to nothing but BILL drills and 10/10/10 and more of the draw timed drills as I can find time, etc.

So, with all of that being said from you and from me, and maybe your not inclined to say since you sell, however, I love the 1911/2011 platform regardless of the drop issue, they are just a dream to shoot, you shoot those regardless of make, anything over $2K and compare it to anything else and nothing else compares, and I think most would agree on that regardless of price, the fit, finishand trigger feel fo a 1911/2011 is second to none, that is why you see so many more companies getting into the game cause the demand is there. I unfortunalty do not have access to all these like you do, just one LGS having the Staccato's but nothing high end to compare or feel. So I have to kinda go by what people on here or 1911addicts say or start buying several $5000 and playing test side by side, but other than a few rich people or people like you who test or sell, who can do that? So I do want 1-2 maybe even more in time, of these guns we have alluded to but at this time, this is my as well as most people's options is to go by word of mouth and trust even though everyones tastes and hand size is going to be different.

So of these guns you have shot and you have mentioned shooting, what you get for your money etc, what would you suggest, I feel right off the bat right like most that have replied and say skip the XC and get the HAYES, since it is probably the best bang for buck for what you get and shooting experience, but is there something I am missing, a Phoenix Trinity, The wasteland (whcih most has said it is nothing more than a better looking Staccato). Anyway I will leave it there and see what oyu have to say, thanks for the info and looking forward to hearing your recommendation's
Click to expand...
I was going to give you a couple of different answers but instead I will give you just best advice. Keep in mind I feel like I got to this answer after personally exploring multiples of wrong answers.

If I were going to start on the 2011 platform, I would start with a Staccato P. I would put a Delta Point Pro or an optic with a DPP footprint like the Vortex (native mounting, no adapter plate) and I would spend a like amount of money on ammo shooting just that pistol. I would clean it as often as needed and really focus on grip, indexing, trigger pull. At the end of this process, if you feel like you would like to step up a rung on the ladder in terms of performance and cost you can sell the pistol for likely .75 to .80 cents on the dollar. Unless you are really unlucky, the only repair/maintenance that is to be expected is the recoil spring that Staccato recommends changing every 5k rounds. I found that I can go closer to 10k before needing to replace that spring. I am recommending this pistol because they are very reliable for a 2011, Staccato has proven time and time again to have good customer service and with this much time on the platform you will absolutely learn what it is that you like or don't about 2011s.

If you want to go a step up in terms of everything, and I mean every aspect of the pistol. My favorite range 2011 without question is the Alchemy. My first exposure to this pistol was actually via Aaron Cowan of Sage Dynamics. It is one of the 2011s that he teaches with and at the time had something like 40k rounds through it without a hiccup. There are never any in stock so you have to order it but for the money, it is the best combination of fit and finish and performance you can get (something in the mid 4s). If you look at them, they look a lot more like a traditional 1911 with a wide grip instead of a more modern looking 2011 so if you don't like the looks I get it. There are very few firearms that I would vouch for but this is one of them. I would take an Alchemy over any Atlas, Watchtower, Nighthawk, Staccato, ect. I received mine a couple of months ago and I smile every single time that I shoot it.

 
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#11
Vinnie45ACP said:
ok, that was a lot and a lot of good info and a lot of stuff I have heard before so good to know it is consistent, seems like a lot of the 1911/2011's have the drop issue if it is dropped barrel first.
So before I ask my question, I will preface by saying I understand and am trying to shoot more, tryting to get in 4-6K of Pistol rounds a year, would like for it to be more, but since I have to drive to my two Gun ranges I am a part of which are both a ways, that is the best I can do, but I am trying, and want to do more and researching that now as we speak. I have owned a truck load, SAO, Striker fired, DA/SA, more than the avg gun owner, and sold the same, I personnally have a serious flaw, always looking for that perfect feeling, in the hand type gun, perfect feeling trigger pull gun, mostly when it comes to Pistols, My shotguns and rifles have stayed pretty consistent, haven;t sold any of those, but a ass ton of pistols have come and gone. I have only kept and will keep a Custom NHC 45acp, a Colt Python 5" and a Colt Anaconda 4", all bucket list items. I have owned a Atlas but regretably sold it, now I kinda wish I had it back. My grip and recoil manangement have drastically improved and looking to nothing but BILL drills and 10/10/10 and more of the draw timed drills as I can find time, etc.

So, with all of that being said from you and from me, and maybe your not inclined to say since you sell, however, I love the 1911/2011 platform regardless of the drop issue, they are just a dream to shoot, you shoot those regardless of make, anything over $2K and compare it to anything else and nothing else compares, and I think most would agree on that regardless of price, the fit, finishand trigger feel fo a 1911/2011 is second to none, that is why you see so many more companies getting into the game cause the demand is there. I unfortunalty do not have access to all these like you do, just one LGS having the Staccato's but nothing high end to compare or feel. So I have to kinda go by what people on here or 1911addicts say or start buying several $5000 and playing test side by side, but other than a few rich people or people like you who test or sell, who can do that? So I do want 1-2 maybe even more in time, of these guns we have alluded to but at this time, this is my as well as most people's options is to go by word of mouth and trust even though everyones tastes and hand size is going to be different.

So of these guns you have shot and you have mentioned shooting, what you get for your money etc, what would you suggest, I feel right off the bat right like most that have replied and say skip the XC and get the HAYES, since it is probably the best bang for buck for what you get and shooting experience, but is there something I am missing, a Phoenix Trinity, The wasteland (whcih most has said it is nothing more than a better looking Staccato). Anyway I will leave it there and see what oyu have to say, thanks for the info and looking forward to hearing your recommendation's
Click to expand...
Atlas or Hayes are virtually the best shooters you can buy right now with major.
 
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#12
Vinnie45ACP said:
I can get a Staccato XC now and put an aluminum Grip on it as well as a Atlas flat short trigger (small hands), or wait and spend a tad more and get a HAYES CUSTOM COBRA which I have heard nothing but great things about. So for those that have had the AWESOME Fortune to handle both, thoughts? And for those that haven't but have a XC, have you done the Aluminum Grip mod and how did it shoot afterwards?
Thanks to all those who read and respond in advance.
Click to expand...
Vinnie45ACP said:
I can get a Staccato XC now and put an aluminum Grip on it as well as a Atlas flat short trigger (small hands), or wait and spend a tad more and get a HAYES CUSTOM COBRA which I have heard nothing but great things about. So for those that have had the AWESOME Fortune to handle both, thoughts? And for those that haven't but have a XC, have you done the Aluminum Grip mod and how did it shoot afterwards?
Thanks to all those who read and respond in advance.
Click to expand...

I’ve never held a Hayes Custom, but I do own an XC and an Atlas Titan. To be quite honest, the XC is still my favorite to shoot. However, the Atlas comes with aluminum grip that feels much better than the XC’s polymer. I will upgrade my XC to steel, but even the polymer grip allows fast, accurate fire.

I can deliver a metric shit ton of 9mm very quickly, in a relatively small group, with the XC. Granted, I can also do it with my Atlas, but the comp on the XC does mitigate more of the recoil. Hence, I can’t do it as quickly.

What I do have experience with are those hole “ports” that Hayes appears to be using. A friend of mine had very similar ports done on a Glock 17. He and I hated those ports. Not only did they make the gun much louder, but for some reason, the recoil was much more obnoxious. I’m no physics major, and so I have no idea why those ports made the pistol behave like that, but it was so bad that he ended up ditching that barrel and going without porting.

I don’t want to denigrate Hayes because they look like an amazing pistol, so it’s quite possible the porting on their pistol works. I can say, without question, that the XC’s comp is the best I’ve ever used.

With all that being said, I’d say get the XC.
 
#13
I have owned a ton of custom 2011s over the last 20 years, and I just don't think a mass-produced Stacatto can compare to any custom build. It may be softer shooting but it really depends on your intended use. If you are going to shoot USPSA get a custom build, if you are just plinking the Stacatto will more than meet your needs.
 
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#14
Adam B said:
I have owned a ton of custom 2011s over the last 20 years, and I just don't think a mass-produced Stacatto can compare to any custom build. It may be softer shooting but it really depends on your intended use. If you are going to shoot USPSA get a custom build, if you are just plinking the Stacatto will more than meet your needs.
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The Staccoto XC is a hand built pistol.
 
#18
mrmarklin said:
They’re all production guns. They’re all being produced!
Considering that there is minimal cost difference between the two pistols, I’d buy the one that is more ergonomic in my hand.
Click to expand...

Sir you have no clue how these are made or what you are talking about and should stop commenting because that’s abundantly clear.
 
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#19
I have experience with both including ported and non-ported island barrel Hayes. The fit and finish on the Hayes is on a whole different level from the XP. The XP shoots well because of the port and light recoil springs but the fit of the parts and the general overall finish is spectacular on the Hayes. You really have to try both to experience the difference.
 
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#20
Maurygold said:
Sir you have no clue how these are made or what you are talking about and should stop commenting because that’s abundantly clear.
Click to expand...
💯 I had Matt Cheely build me 20 pistols before he took off and have owned numerous Infinty pistols. STI aka Stacatto can rebrand all they want but at then the end of the day they are production pistols.
 
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#21
Adam B said:
💯 I had Matt Cheely build me 20 pistols before he took off and have owned numerous Infinty pistols. STI aka Stacatto can rebrand all they want but at then the end of the day they are production pistols.
Click to expand...

Staccato yes. Hayes - absolutely not. He said the Hayes is production like staccato which it absolutely is not
 
#25
mrmarklin said:
Distinction without a difference. What part of being hand finished don’t you get? Still like my X5 better.
Click to expand...

You don’t own either of these and you don’t know anything about how the Hayes is made. You aren’t here helping anyone, you’re just spouting off shit that’s not true.

And you think the p226 is a good gun while we discuss $5k premier firearms - your opinion is irrelevant.
 
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#26
Maurygold said:
you think the p226 is a good gun while we discuss $5k premier firearms - your opinion is irrelevant.
Click to expand...
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#29
CaptArab said:
Yeah the XC seems silly to me. Can't carry it, not a duty gun, not a game gun. It's primary role is impressing people on reddit. Id rather have a shadow 2.

If you want a toy, go for it, but I typically like toys that I can at least pretend fit some type of role.
Click to expand...
The XC is apparently very much a duty gun as out here in CA they are carried by officers in Riverside, San Diego, and Los Angeles. Can’t speak for the other counties but at the USPSA matches I’ve talked to officers from all 3 departments and they’re issued staccato XCs. There is a LAPD one for sale right now on Calguns; S/N starts w/ LAPD XXXX
 
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#30
Maurygold said:
You don’t own either of these and you don’t know anything about how the Hayes is made. You aren’t here helping anyone, you’re just spouting off shit that’s not true.

And you think the p226 is a good gun while we discuss $5k premier firearms - your opinion is irrelevant.
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I get it you have a Hayes. You can win.

But you have obviously never shot a German made X5.
 
#31
mrmarklin said:
I get it you have a Hayes. You can win.

But you have obviously never shot a German made X5.
Click to expand...
I have a both the XC and German x5 comp.

the German x5 is the best of the 226s but doesn’t compare to fit/finish of a high end 2011.

Even the XC is significantly better than the x5.
 
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#33
robertsma said:
The XC is apparently very much a duty gun as out here in CA they are carried by officers in Riverside, San Diego, and Los Angeles. Can’t speak for the other counties but at the USPSA matches I’ve talked to officers from all 3 departments and they’re issued staccato XCs. There is a LAPD one for sale right now on Calguns; S/N starts w/ LAPD XXXX
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That's nuts.

Heavy slide + comp sprung race gun is the last thing I would want on my hip for a grappling match to the death.

Good on that salesman.
 
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#34
CaptArab said:
That's nuts.

Heavy slide + comp sprung race gun is the last thing I would want on my hip for a grappling match to the death.

Good on that salesman.
Click to expand...
Exactly my thoughts man. I was shocked that they carry a conp’d gun with a 2lb trigger pull…. My competition guns (pistols) are just under 2lbs and give you zero time to reconsider once you start pulling the trigger.
 
#35
robertsma said:
The XC is apparently very much a duty gun as out here in CA they are carried by officers in Riverside, San Diego, and Los Angeles. Can’t speak for the other counties but at the USPSA matches I’ve talked to officers from all 3 departments and they’re issued staccato XCs. There is a LAPD one for sale right now on Calguns; S/N starts w/ LAPD XXXX
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I am not doubting what you are saying. The Police Departments in those cities are complete fucking idiots if they let that be a duty gun. Even Staccato says it is not a duty gun.
 
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#36
mrmarklin said:
I get it you have a Hayes. You can win.

But you have obviously never shot a German made X5.
Click to expand...
The X5 is a nice gun imo. The positives are reliability compared to a high end 2011. After that, the 2011 is better in almost every way. Since I kind of clump them in the same category, I think the high end CZ75 iterations of pistols are a little better then the Sig but I am splitting hairs on that one.
 
#38
robertsma said:
Exactly my thoughts man. I was shocked that they carry a conp’d gun with a 2lb trigger pull…. My competition guns (pistols) are just under 2lbs and give you zero time to reconsider once you start pulling the trigger.
Click to expand...
Just read on addicts the duty version has a 4.5lb trigger and 9lb recoil spring.

So maybe that's not so unreasonable 🤷‍♂️

Idk, I still think cops should carry Glock 17s unless they care enough to request something else.
 
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#39
CaptArab said:
Just read on addicts the duty version has a 4.5lb trigger and 9lb recoil spring.

So maybe that's not so unreasonable 🤷‍♂️

Idk, I still think cops should carry Glock 17s unless they care enough to request something else.
Click to expand...
To me the recoil spring is a big issue. You kind of have to mess with them but to go fast and have that go fast feel they put in a light recoil spring. When the pistol gets gunky at all, the light recoil spring will keep it from going into battery. I enjoy shooting them but they are range pistols. Also, they are not drop safe :D.
 
#41
DeathBeforeDismount said:
How do the MPA hybrid pistols compare to those already mentioned?
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I kind of lump them in with Watchtower currently. If you can get one, they seem to work fine. If you have an issue, it is a real issue as they are behind in production and delivery and problems can take quite a while to fix.

In terms of the pistol themselves, I have shot their Hybrid with the nested comp (don't remember the model). The pistol was well built with good fit and finish. In terms of design it was similar to a Staccato XC but the MPA has a metal grip instead of the polymer and is heavier by quite a bit. It came with a 2ish lbs trigger and was fast to shoot.

They are still relatively new to the market and I do not have any information on how they hold up over time. Just to mention it, you can get the grip module in a couple of different textures. The pistol I shot was the most aggressive and over the course of a couple of hundred rounds my hand was kind off raw with a little blood on one spot. If I was going to order one I would go at least one step down in terms of grip texture.
 
#42
CaptArab said:
Yeah the XC seems silly to me. Can't carry it, not a duty gun, not a game gun. It's primary role is impressing people on reddit. Id rather have a shadow 2.

If you want a toy, go for it, but I typically like toys that I can at least pretend fit some type of role.
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I carry mine, and with some proper extractor geometry, it’ll run over 1000 without cleaning on a 7lb recoil spring. I haven’t been able to run it to a stoppage yet, so I don’t know how many rounds above 1000 it’ll take.
 
#45
robertsma said:
Exactly my thoughts man. I was shocked that they carry a conp’d gun with a 2lb trigger pull…. My competition guns (pistols) are just under 2lbs and give you zero time to reconsider once you start pulling the trigger.
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The duty version runs a 4lb trigger and 9lb recoil spring.
 
#49
Tokay444 said:
What are your opinions on the P being a dusty gun?
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I want to start with a sense of history and acknowledge that for more than 100 years, 1911s have been serving law enforcement and the military including two world war wins. I was issued one in the USMC (yes I am old and I predate the M9).

If I was going to use a 2011 as a duty pistol, I would want a couple of things with the pistol. I would want a trigger that is something around 4lbs, I do not like 2lbs triggers. In the last two years I have been to multiple two gun and USPSA pistol matches and one of the things you can count on is people sending rounds down range unintentionally because their adrenaline gets flowing and they accidently squeeze one off.

I would want a heavier recoil spring. The lighter springs allow for the pistols to cycle faster but they also make them more prone to failure (not going into battery). When you start looking at high end 2011s, one of the awesome things about them is the quality of the craftsmanship. They are incredibly smooth when they cycle but they are smooth with really tight tolerances. That is why they guy above can shoot a sub 2 inch group at 25 yards. The tight tolerances will end up requiring more cleaning/oiling than other pistols (which is one of my gripes with them). The tight tolerances also let gunk, dirt, whatever jam the pistol. It is not really an issue on a flat range but could be for a duty gun. I think the way to mitigate it is to have looser tolerances, especially where the slide meets the frame but then you are giving up some of the awesomeness of the pistol. The way I tried to mitigate was to put in a heavier recoil spring. (I had an XC, I put in a red dirt trigger and set it to 3.25 -3.5lbs and I tried it with 11 and 13lbs springs. Effectively I turned an XC into a P which was stupid).

The 2011s that are based on the internals of the Colt model 70 are not drop safe. You can engage the thumb safety, not have your hand on the grip safety, drop it and it can discharge. To me this is a deal killer given all the options our there today.

This is a minor gripe but for me on 2011s, I really like having iron sights that co-witness. For a duty 2011 I would insist on it. I am not sure if all Staccatos have that as an option (I think they do). There are several high end 2011s that do not.

If you buy a Walther PDP, Glock 9mm variant, S&W 2.0, HK VP9 you end up with a polymer frame striker fired pistol that has none of the issues that I described above. You don't have to clean them with any regularity, you don't have to mess with the springs, you really don't have to do much of anything and when you need them, they go bang. I think for a duty pistol that going bang when you need them is the really important part.

Given all of that, I could make a P work as a duty gun. I would just need to be careful in that I regularly clean the pistol. I check it every single time before I go on duty. I get a hooded holster that protects the pistol from the elements. Some of the negatives are still there but they are unlikely to be an issue if you do your part.
 
#50
ut755ln said:
they are smooth with really tight tolerances. That is why they guy above can shoot a sub 2 inch group at 25 yards. The tight tolerances will end up requiring more cleaning/oiling than other pistols (which is one of my gripes with them). The tight tolerances also let gunk, dirt, whatever jam the pistol.
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I know what you mean and don't doubt you know what you're talking about but good info here regarding definitions of things- https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/fyi-tolerances-vs-clearances.7064092/
 
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