STACCATO XC VS HAYES CUSTOM COBRA

[Vinnie45ACP]

I can get a Staccato XC now and put an aluminum Grip on it as well as a Atlas flat short trigger (small hands), or wait and spend a tad more and get a HAYES CUSTOM COBRA which I have heard nothing but great things about. So for those that have had the AWESOME Fortune to handle both, thoughts? And for those that haven't but have a XC, have you done the Aluminum Grip mod and how did it shoot afterwards?
Thanks to all those who read and respond in advance.

 

[Dave62677]

I shot XC , it is really soft recoil. I handle the Hayes at a shop. The fit and finish is top notch. The slide and frame is better or equal to Atlas. I currently own the atlas Erebus and I put my down deposit with Hayes Island barrel cobra right after handle the Hayes

 

[Vinnie45ACP]

I shot XC , it is really soft recoil. I handle the Hayes at a shop. The fit and finish is top notch. The slide and frame is better or equal to Atlas. I currently own the atlas Erebus and I put my down deposit with Hayes Island barrel cobra right after handle the Hayes

Can you tell me what the difference in the Ported Bull Barrel and the Island Barrel on the Cobra is? I was trying to decide, I probably won't complete, I have a NHC 45 and a Staccato C2 already and looking for a race run to just do Drills with and have fun with. But I also don't want to make a mistake on the build. They kinda mentioned that the Island barrel was more for competition but that's all I got from it. If you have more incite that would be great.

 

[Maurygold]

Island supposed to be flatter since there is less slide mass moving. The island, island/ port, port, and comp are all fairly close in recoil however and the Hayes is a great gun!

I would not mess with the XC frame seems like a ton of cost for maybe 1% improvment.

 

[Dave62677]

For the Hayes bull barrel cobra, u can order 2 barrels. Both (ported & no ported) fitted your gun for additional 600 bux. It is great for shooter do different division matches. The Hayes island barrel currently wait time is about 12 months. To be honest, people said the island shoot flatter. But I doubt a non competition shooter can really feel a big differences. If you see one on the market place or store, get it.

 

[ut755ln]

I can get a Staccato XC now and put an aluminum Grip on it as well as a Atlas flat short trigger (small hands), or wait and spend a tad more and get a HAYES CUSTOM COBRA which I have heard nothing but great things about. So for those that have had the AWESOME Fortune to handle both, thoughts? And for those that haven't but have a XC, have you done the Aluminum Grip mod and how did it shoot afterwards?
Thanks to all those who read and respond in advance.

As some of you know, I am an owner of a gun store with a rental fleet. We sell Staccato, Atlas, Watchtower, Wilson Combat, Nighthawk, Platypus, Prodidgy, Tisa, and then some one offs 2011s or double stack 1911s.

I have shot everything above that I listed but I have several thousand rounds through the XC. I had a race gun that I competed with made by Hayes that I no longer own.

If you look at the platform, a lot of people like them because they are very ergonomic and feel good in the hand. People that have had time on the 1911 platform take to them right away, same controls, kind of the same feel. They tend to be heavier and feel more substantial when compared to polymer striker fired handguns. A lot of people really like the safety mechanisms on the pistols, I can't tell you how many customers feel uncomfortable with internal safeties like in a Glock for instance.

So the specific pistols you listed I am going to categorize as high end range guns. Because of the porting or the compensator, you can't use them as competition pistols in most of the divisions in shooting sports except at the very high end (Open) and both of them are severely lacking in that division. I think that both pistols have triggers that are too light to be used as self defense weapons, this is a very arguable point but just my opinion. The Staccato is based on the model 70 Colt in that it is not drop safe which is a negative to me. I am not sure about the Hayes, some double stack 1911/2011s have the model 80 mechanism that makes them drop safe.

Of the Staccatos that I have shot and owned, the XC is the most frustrating to me. The spring is so light that if the pistol gets any gunk in it the gun will not go into battery so you have to clean it a lot. My solution to the problem was to contact Dawson precision and I bought heavier springs which helped quite a bit but in doing so I made it shoot a little less soft. As I mentioned above, I made the trigger pull a little heavier as well so for me I ended up turning an XC into a Staccato P which was kind of stupid. I had our gunsmith revert the changes and sold it.

For an average shooter, you will probably be a little more accurate and shoot a little faster with these pistols. The better you are with a pistol, the less you pick up going to one of these platforms versus something like a Glock. To explain this comment, at 7 yards shooting into a USPSA target. I can draw from a holster and empty a 20 round mag with all alphas in the 4.1 to 4.4 second range with most pistols. I do not really pick up significant amount of time going from a Glock to a Staccato. For an average shooter (less then 1k rounds a year) on the range, they will absolutely see a pretty big performance gain with a Staccato vs a Glock.

With respects to the metal grips and trigger. You can order Staccatos with aluminum triggers (curved and flat) now. I would not carry these pistols so to me I would prefer a steel grip module (Cheely for Staccato) and Hayes may make their own. I also prefer a working palm swell safety mechanism instead of the pinned but that is very much a user preference things.

 

[st1650]

The irony of this mass marketing of 2011s is that it gets shooters to go back to Glocks ...

 

[Vinnie45ACP]

As some of you know, I am an owner of a gun store with a rental fleet. We sell Staccato, Atlas, Watchtower, Wilson Combat, Nighthawk, Platypus, Prodidgy, Tisa, and then some one offs 2011s or double stack 1911s.

I have shot everything above that I listed but I have several thousand rounds through the XC. I had a race gun that I competed with made by Hayes that I no longer own.

If you look at the platform, a lot of people like them because they are very ergonomic and feel good in the hand. People that have had time on the 1911 platform take to them right away, same controls, kind of the same feel. They tend to be heavier and feel more substantial when compared to polymer striker fired handguns. A lot of people really like the safety mechanisms on the pistols, I can't tell you how many customers feel uncomfortable with internal safeties like in a Glock for instance.

So the specific pistols you listed I am going to categorize as high end range guns. Because of the porting or the compensator, you can't use them as competition pistols in most of the divisions in shooting sports except at the very high end (Open) and both of them are severely lacking in that division. I think that both pistols have triggers that are too light to be used as self defense weapons, this is a very arguable point but just my opinion. The Staccato is based on the model 70 Colt in that it is not drop safe which is a negative to me. I am not sure about the Hayes, some double stack 1911/2011s have the model 80 mechanism that makes them drop safe.

Of the Staccatos that I have shot and owned, the XC is the most frustrating to me. The spring is so light that if the pistol gets any gunk in it the gun will not go into battery so you have to clean it a lot. My solution to the problem was to contact Dawson precision and I bought heavier springs which helped quite a bit but in doing so I made it shoot a little less soft. As I mentioned above, I made the trigger pull a little heavier as well so for me I ended up turning an XC into a Staccato P which was kind of stupid. I had our gunsmith revert the changes and sold it.

For an average shooter, you will probably be a little more accurate and shoot a little faster with these pistols. The better you are with a pistol, the less you pick up going to one of these platforms versus something like a Glock. To explain this comment, at 7 yards shooting into a USPSA target. I can draw from a holster and empty a 20 round mag with all alphas in the 4.1 to 4.4 second range with most pistols. I do not really pick up significant amount of time going from a Glock to a Staccato. For an average shooter (less then 1k rounds a year) on the range, they will absolutely see a pretty big performance gain with a Staccato vs a Glock.

With respects to the metal grips and trigger. You can order Staccatos with aluminum triggers (curved and flat) now. I would not carry these pistols so to me I would prefer a steel grip module (Cheely for Staccato) and Hayes may make their own. I also prefer a working palm swell safety mechanism instead of the pinned but that is very much a user preference things.

ok, that was a lot and a lot of good info and a lot of stuff I have heard before so good to know it is consistent, seems like a lot of the 1911/2011's have the drop issue if it is dropped barrel first.
So before I ask my question, I will preface by saying I understand and am trying to shoot more, tryting to get in 4-6K of Pistol rounds a year, would like for it to be more, but since I have to drive to my two Gun ranges I am a part of which are both a ways, that is the best I can do, but I am trying, and want to do more and researching that now as we speak. I have owned a truck load, SAO, Striker fired, DA/SA, more than the avg gun owner, and sold the same, I personnally have a serious flaw, always looking for that perfect feeling, in the hand type gun, perfect feeling trigger pull gun, mostly when it comes to Pistols, My shotguns and rifles have stayed pretty consistent, haven;t sold any of those, but a ass ton of pistols have come and gone. I have only kept and will keep a Custom NHC 45acp, a Colt Python 5" and a Colt Anaconda 4", all bucket list items. I have owned a Atlas but regretably sold it, now I kinda wish I had it back. My grip and recoil manangement have drastically improved and looking to nothing but BILL drills and 10/10/10 and more of the draw timed drills as I can find time, etc.

So, with all of that being said from you and from me, and maybe your not inclined to say since you sell, however, I love the 1911/2011 platform regardless of the drop issue, they are just a dream to shoot, you shoot those regardless of make, anything over $2K and compare it to anything else and nothing else compares, and I think most would agree on that regardless of price, the fit, finishand trigger feel fo a 1911/2011 is second to none, that is why you see so many more companies getting into the game cause the demand is there. I unfortunalty do not have access to all these like you do, just one LGS having the Staccato's but nothing high end to compare or feel. So I have to kinda go by what people on here or 1911addicts say or start buying several $5000 and playing test side by side, but other than a few rich people or people like you who test or sell, who can do that? So I do want 1-2 maybe even more in time, of these guns we have alluded to but at this time, this is my as well as most people's options is to go by word of mouth and trust even though everyones tastes and hand size is going to be different.

So of these guns you have shot and you have mentioned shooting, what you get for your money etc, what would you suggest, I feel right off the bat right like most that have replied and say skip the XC and get the HAYES, since it is probably the best bang for buck for what you get and shooting experience, but is there something I am missing, a Phoenix Trinity, The wasteland (whcih most has said it is nothing more than a better looking Staccato). Anyway I will leave it there and see what oyu have to say, thanks for the info and looking forward to hearing your recommendation's

 

[CaptArab]

Of the Staccatos that I have shot and owned, the XC is the most frustrating to me.

Yeah the XC seems silly to me. Can't carry it, not a duty gun, not a game gun. It's primary role is impressing people on reddit. Id rather have a shadow 2.

If you want a toy, go for it, but I typically like toys that I can at least pretend fit some type of role.

 

[ut755ln]

ok, that was a lot and a lot of good info and a lot of stuff I have heard before so good to know it is consistent, seems like a lot of the 1911/2011's have the drop issue if it is dropped barrel first.
So before I ask my question, I will preface by saying I understand and am trying to shoot more, tryting to get in 4-6K of Pistol rounds a year, would like for it to be more, but since I have to drive to my two Gun ranges I am a part of which are both a ways, that is the best I can do, but I am trying, and want to do more and researching that now as we speak. I have owned a truck load, SAO, Striker fired, DA/SA, more than the avg gun owner, and sold the same, I personnally have a serious flaw, always looking for that perfect feeling, in the hand type gun, perfect feeling trigger pull gun, mostly when it comes to Pistols, My shotguns and rifles have stayed pretty consistent, haven;t sold any of those, but a ass ton of pistols have come and gone. I have only kept and will keep a Custom NHC 45acp, a Colt Python 5" and a Colt Anaconda 4", all bucket list items. I have owned a Atlas but regretably sold it, now I kinda wish I had it back. My grip and recoil manangement have drastically improved and looking to nothing but BILL drills and 10/10/10 and more of the draw timed drills as I can find time, etc.

So, with all of that being said from you and from me, and maybe your not inclined to say since you sell, however, I love the 1911/2011 platform regardless of the drop issue, they are just a dream to shoot, you shoot those regardless of make, anything over $2K and compare it to anything else and nothing else compares, and I think most would agree on that regardless of price, the fit, finishand trigger feel fo a 1911/2011 is second to none, that is why you see so many more companies getting into the game cause the demand is there. I unfortunalty do not have access to all these like you do, just one LGS having the Staccato's but nothing high end to compare or feel. So I have to kinda go by what people on here or 1911addicts say or start buying several $5000 and playing test side by side, but other than a few rich people or people like you who test or sell, who can do that? So I do want 1-2 maybe even more in time, of these guns we have alluded to but at this time, this is my as well as most people's options is to go by word of mouth and trust even though everyones tastes and hand size is going to be different.

So of these guns you have shot and you have mentioned shooting, what you get for your money etc, what would you suggest, I feel right off the bat right like most that have replied and say skip the XC and get the HAYES, since it is probably the best bang for buck for what you get and shooting experience, but is there something I am missing, a Phoenix Trinity, The wasteland (whcih most has said it is nothing more than a better looking Staccato). Anyway I will leave it there and see what oyu have to say, thanks for the info and looking forward to hearing your recommendation's

I was going to give you a couple of different answers but instead I will give you just best advice. Keep in mind I feel like I got to this answer after personally exploring multiples of wrong answers.

If I were going to start on the 2011 platform, I would start with a Staccato P. I would put a Delta Point Pro or an optic with a DPP footprint like the Vortex (native mounting, no adapter plate) and I would spend a like amount of money on ammo shooting just that pistol. I would clean it as often as needed and really focus on grip, indexing, trigger pull. At the end of this process, if you feel like you would like to step up a rung on the ladder in terms of performance and cost you can sell the pistol for likely .75 to .80 cents on the dollar. Unless you are really unlucky, the only repair/maintenance that is to be expected is the recoil spring that Staccato recommends changing every 5k rounds. I found that I can go closer to 10k before needing to replace that spring. I am recommending this pistol because they are very reliable for a 2011, Staccato has proven time and time again to have good customer service and with this much time on the platform you will absolutely learn what it is that you like or don't about 2011s.

If you want to go a step up in terms of everything, and I mean every aspect of the pistol. My favorite range 2011 without question is the Alchemy. My first exposure to this pistol was actually via Aaron Cowan of Sage Dynamics. It is one of the 2011s that he teaches with and at the time had something like 40k rounds through it without a hiccup. There are never any in stock so you have to order it but for the money, it is the best combination of fit and finish and performance you can get (something in the mid 4s). If you look at them, they look a lot more like a traditional 1911 with a wide grip instead of a more modern looking 2011 so if you don't like the looks I get it. There are very few firearms that I would vouch for but this is one of them. I would take an Alchemy over any Atlas, Watchtower, Nighthawk, Staccato, ect. I received mine a couple of months ago and I smile every single time that I shoot it.

 

[Maurygold]

ok, that was a lot and a lot of good info and a lot of stuff I have heard before so good to know it is consistent, seems like a lot of the 1911/2011's have the drop issue if it is dropped barrel first.
So before I ask my question, I will preface by saying I understand and am trying to shoot more, tryting to get in 4-6K of Pistol rounds a year, would like for it to be more, but since I have to drive to my two Gun ranges I am a part of which are both a ways, that is the best I can do, but I am trying, and want to do more and researching that now as we speak. I have owned a truck load, SAO, Striker fired, DA/SA, more than the avg gun owner, and sold the same, I personnally have a serious flaw, always looking for that perfect feeling, in the hand type gun, perfect feeling trigger pull gun, mostly when it comes to Pistols, My shotguns and rifles have stayed pretty consistent, haven;t sold any of those, but a ass ton of pistols have come and gone. I have only kept and will keep a Custom NHC 45acp, a Colt Python 5" and a Colt Anaconda 4", all bucket list items. I have owned a Atlas but regretably sold it, now I kinda wish I had it back. My grip and recoil manangement have drastically improved and looking to nothing but BILL drills and 10/10/10 and more of the draw timed drills as I can find time, etc.

So, with all of that being said from you and from me, and maybe your not inclined to say since you sell, however, I love the 1911/2011 platform regardless of the drop issue, they are just a dream to shoot, you shoot those regardless of make, anything over $2K and compare it to anything else and nothing else compares, and I think most would agree on that regardless of price, the fit, finishand trigger feel fo a 1911/2011 is second to none, that is why you see so many more companies getting into the game cause the demand is there. I unfortunalty do not have access to all these like you do, just one LGS having the Staccato's but nothing high end to compare or feel. So I have to kinda go by what people on here or 1911addicts say or start buying several $5000 and playing test side by side, but other than a few rich people or people like you who test or sell, who can do that? So I do want 1-2 maybe even more in time, of these guns we have alluded to but at this time, this is my as well as most people's options is to go by word of mouth and trust even though everyones tastes and hand size is going to be different.

So of these guns you have shot and you have mentioned shooting, what you get for your money etc, what would you suggest, I feel right off the bat right like most that have replied and say skip the XC and get the HAYES, since it is probably the best bang for buck for what you get and shooting experience, but is there something I am missing, a Phoenix Trinity, The wasteland (whcih most has said it is nothing more than a better looking Staccato). Anyway I will leave it there and see what oyu have to say, thanks for the info and looking forward to hearing your recommendation's

Atlas or Hayes are virtually the best shooters you can buy right now with major.