STACCATO XC VS HAYES CUSTOM COBRA

I want to start with a sense of history and acknowledge that for more than 100 years, 1911s have been serving law enforcement and the military including two world war wins. I was issued one in the USMC (yes I am old and I predate the M9).

If I was going to use a 2011 as a duty pistol, I would want a couple of things with the pistol. I would want a trigger that is something around 4lbs, I do not like 2lbs triggers. In the last two years I have been to multiple two gun and USPSA pistol matches and one of the things you can count on is people sending rounds down range unintentionally because their adrenaline gets flowing and they accidently squeeze one off.

I would want a heavier recoil spring. The lighter springs allow for the pistols to cycle faster but they also make them more prone to failure (not going into battery). When you start looking at high end 2011s, one of the awesome things about them is the quality of the craftsmanship. They are incredibly smooth when they cycle but they are smooth with really tight tolerances. That is why they guy above can shoot a sub 2 inch group at 25 yards. The tight tolerances will end up requiring more cleaning/oiling than other pistols (which is one of my gripes with them). The tight tolerances also let gunk, dirt, whatever jam the pistol. It is not really an issue on a flat range but could be for a duty gun. I think the way to mitigate it is to have looser tolerances, especially where the slide meets the frame but then you are giving up some of the awesomeness of the pistol. The way I tried to mitigate was to put in a heavier recoil spring. (I had an XC, I put in a red dirt trigger and set it to 3.25 -3.5lbs and I tried it with 11 and 13lbs springs. Effectively I turned an XC into a P which was stupid).

The 2011s that are based on the internals of the Colt model 70 are not drop safe. You can engage the thumb safety, not have your hand on the grip safety, drop it and it can discharge. To me this is a deal killer given all the options our there today.

This is a minor gripe but for me on 2011s, I really like having iron sights that co-witness. For a duty 2011 I would insist on it. I am not sure if all Staccatos have that as an option (I think they do). There are several high end 2011s that do not.

If you buy a Walther PDP, Glock 9mm variant, S&W 2.0, HK VP9 you end up with a polymer frame striker fired pistol that has none of the issues that I described above. You don't have to clean them with any regularity, you don't have to mess with the springs, you really don't have to do much of anything and when you need them, they go bang. I think for a duty pistol that going bang when you need them is the really important part.

Given all of that, I could make a P work as a duty gun. I would just need to be careful in that I regularly clean the pistol. I check it every single time before I go on duty. I get a hooded holster that protects the pistol from the elements. Some of the negatives are still there but they are unlikely to be an issue if you do your part.
Given that you could make a P work, why are you vehemently against an XC, that you can do the exact same thing to? Heavier trigger, and heavier recoil spring, which is what Staccato does to their duty version.
My XC is co-witnessed.
As far as drop safe, they have to be dropped in a very particular manner directly on the muzzle square to the ground, from above a certain height, and even then it's not guaranteed.
 
Is there any reason they wouldn't be able to regularly clean their pistols?
Lol, yes.
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Another question: Do law enforcement officers need guns that operate in dirty conditions? It's not like their "field" environment is a 6 month deployment in a patrol base. They're generally operating out of offices, their own homes, and vehicles. Is there any reason they wouldn't be able to regularly clean their pistols?

Law enforcement officers posses the same mechanical aptitude as the rest of the population. Maintaining a status pistol is unlikely beyond a small percentage of officers. LE Duty pistols probably won't see moon dust but probably will see cruiser lint, french fry salt, and all the shit found between you car seats.
 
Law enforcement officers posses the same mechanical aptitude as the rest of the population. Maintaining a status pistol is unlikely beyond a small percentage of officers. LE Duty pistols probably won't see moon dust but probably will see cruiser lint, french fry salt, and all the shit found between you car seats.
All of which a 9lb recoil spring will overcome.
 
Given that you could make a P work, why are you vehemently against an XC, that you can do the exact same thing to? Heavier trigger, and heavier recoil spring, which is what Staccato does to their duty version.
My XC is co-witnessed.
As far as drop safe, they have to be dropped in a very particular manner directly on the muzzle square to the ground, from above a certain height, and even then it's not guaranteed.
To me, the XC is a competition pistol. When I changed mine, I realized that I took $5k worth of pistol and turned it into $3 worth of pistol which was dumb on my part so I reverted the changes.

This is not an XC comment but a comment on compensators and porting on pistols. I have the Radian barrel and compensator on my Glock 45 and I really like it versus a stock 45. Radian clearly states in their instructions that the compensator is designed to be used with 124 grain or heavier ammunition. I have shot it a lot with all kinds of ammo and this is what I found. If you shoot lighter then 124 spicy ammo through it, sometimes the slide will lock open on last round, sometimes it won't. If you shoot 115 grain range ammo through it, it almost never locks back. When the pistol was new, sometimes it would not go into battery. There may have been other malfunctions that I am forgetting. Once the pistol was broken in, it is now just the slide not locking back sometimes. You can mitigate this by actually following the manufacturers directions and shooting 124 grain or more high quality ammunition through it.

While the compensator on the XC does make a difference in terms of the pistol shooting flatter, it also does the same stuff that happens with the Glock. Again, if you follow the directions of the manufacturer and use appropriate ammo you can mostly eliminate this as a problem (mostly). Having a comp on a pistol is not a deal killer for me, but you need to be aware of it. You need to break the pistol in, find what ammo functions best, ect. My carry pistol is effectively an unmodified Glock that is broken in and it feeds everything. I am like a simple human decision tree that tends to always default to what is most reliable.
 
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I've never had my slide not lock back on various ammo, unless I was riding my support thumb too close to the slide stop.
LE tend to run 147gr.
 
You have to be careful with that argument bc there's an overlapping population that probably can't shoot very well either so it just becomes a self defeating argument.

I took my wife's carry gun out of her purse just to see what it looks like. I shouldn't have, I'm going to run drills with it on Friday just to see what a years worth of purse rot does.
 

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Plastic striker fired production guns just aren't interesting to me anymore. For my personal guns, I appreciate the art that goes into them. And I don't expect them to have to make it through a combat deployment without cleaning. I don't over clean guns that's for sure. But every gun I have has a known "last condition". I don't keep log books or spreadsheets, but I have a general idea of how many rounds are on a barrel on a dry erase board from an approximation of so many rounds between cleanings or box of 500 bullets shot. To the nearest 100.

The hard man competition shooter persona has just never done it for me. I just remained unimpressed. Bragging about how maintenance-free their plastic production guns (that are really just produced for competition shooting) has the opposite than intended effect on me.
To your first point, we track how many rounds are fired through the pistols and we keep a maintenance log (kind of). It is nothing like a deployment, it is just a high round count compared to most personally owned firearms.

I don't understand "maintenance-free their plastic production guns (that are really just produced for competition shooting)". Are you saying a Glock is produced for competition shooting?