SAC And 419 Dies

Lawl. The die is dimensionally not appropriate for its intended purpose, as verified with gauge pins.
There’s no reason to crush a neck down that small just to rip it back open again, and is the exact reason people went away from full length dies and expander balls, to bushing dies and a separate mandrel die.
By your definition. This is literally how all non bushing dies work because of the wide array of possible brass thicknesses. Guaranteed plastic deformation gets you more consistent sizing in theory. If you don't like it, that's fine, I get it, but I don't understand why you're so surprised that a non-bushing die doesn't act like a bushing die. Overworking brass is a non-issue if you anneal regularly.
 
I just realized the 419 doesn't have a bushing. I would say i don't care for that design because it can definitely overwork brass by sizing it down to far for the mandrels. That's pretty signifcant knock compared to the SAC.

I don't own the 419 because I think the larger die size head is very off-putting as well (yes i own a zero)
 
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Any suggestions for my second run? I ordered some one shot to see if the lube was an issue.
I use one shot but I align the case mouths facing me and spray the cases at a 30 deg. ish angle to get lube on the inside of the neck and overapply. Roll the cases 180, and do it again. Toss them in a bin and wait an hour or so, then size. Haven't had issues doing it that way.
 
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I use one shot but I align the case mouths facing me and spray the cases at a 30 deg. ish angle to get lube on the inside of the neck and overapply. Roll the cases 180, and do it again. Toss them in a bin and wait an hour or so, then size. Haven't had issues doing it that way.
I do the same thing when spraying lube on my cases. I have never waited though and sized almost immediately, I’ll give that a shot. Have never had a stuck case before this is a first for me, I have always FL sized on whidden and Forster does with no issues.
 
By your definition. This is literally how all non bushing dies work because of the wide array of possible brass thicknesses. Guaranteed plastic deformation gets you more consistent sizing in theory. If you don't like it, that's fine, I get it, but I don't understand why you're so surprised that a non-bushing die doesn't act like a bushing die. Overworking brass is a non-issue if you anneal regularly.
If you didn’t get plastic deformation with a bushing die, you wouldn’t hold the next bullet. Plastics deformation is essential. Without it, you’ve done no resizing.
“How it’s always been done” is the enemy of innovation.
 
I just realized the 419 doesn't have a bushing. I would say i don't care for that design because it can definitely overwork brass by sizing it down to far for the mandrels. That's pretty signifcant knock compared to the SAC.

I don't own the 419 because I think the larger die size head is very off-putting as well (yes i own a zero)
I have a zero as well. I like the SAC dies and that’s what I’ve moved too. Now if SAC will ever restock a .261 decapping mandrel I’ll be on 1 pull reloading for both cartridges.
 
And I am glad you mentioned liquid. I was about to order that gunk stuff LOL probably would have regretted it and wondered what the hell this was supposed to do for my cases
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I just picked up the recapping expander mandrel from SAC it’s made of carbide so do I need to lube the inside of the necks? My old process was to use a separate mandrel and I would use graphite powder for the inside necks but it wasn’t a carbide mandrel just regular stainless steel.
 
I just picked up the recapping expander mandrel from SAC it’s made of carbide so do I need to lube the inside of the necks? My old process was to use a separate mandrel and I would use graphite powder for the inside necks but it wasn’t a carbide mandrel just regular stainless steel.
Yes, you should still use lube on the inside and outside of the case.
 
I’ll try that out as well, thanks
Do the same mixture with 99 alcohol but use rcbs lube instead of lanolin. It's water based so it's super easy to clean off with some warm water and soap in a bucket or just a damp wet rag.

Btw: one shot is meant to flash off before use, which is why people get stuck dies using it. If you let it flash off (about 15 min) it works well, but the lanolin or my preferred rcbs lube mix is way cheaper and works fantastic
 
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I have read alot of comparison between the two sets of dies across 3 pages so far. one of the important factors i have yet to read about is downrange performance. Anyone have some measurable down range performance comparing the two sets of dies against the cheaper sets of dies?
 
I have read alot of comparison between the two sets of dies across 3 pages so far. one of the important factors i have yet to read about is downrange performance. Anyone have some measurable down range performance comparing the two sets of dies against the cheaper sets of dies?

Answer is zero and that’s not how you gauge the effectiveness of a sizing die.

The question is only whether the 419 oversizes due to the non-bushing design. Otherwise they are generally the same.
 
I have read alot of comparison between the two sets of dies across 3 pages so far. one of the important factors i have yet to read about is downrange performance. Anyone have some measurable down range performance comparing the two sets of dies against the cheaper sets of dies?
No difference but less time reloading is what I was after.
 
Down range?

I now use a 419 Zero and SAC dies.

I made as good of ammo on my old Lee breechlock challenger with Lee dies.

Most of the performance in reloading is in the method. Better equipment yields more efficiency and smiles.
 
This is something that is measurable, which i did not really consider. Thankyou for the the reply.

Down range performance, lets say group sizes at 1k yards are smaller or more consistent, less flyers.

I have the SAC OAL tools. Great product. Before i purchased those, the hornady tools were used. The SAC tool definitely produces more consistent readings. Dont need to check several times. I guess before i spend the money i am looking for some measurable performance difference. This sport is very competitive and alot of people chase the new product. Just trying to be more efficient with money.