POI SHIFT SEEKINS IRMT VS RIDGELINE DEFENSE

MaximusDecimusMeidius · Sunday at 4:12 PM

I want to put together a 16" Precision Oriented 6ARC and also a Precision Oriented 16" 223 WYLDE

If you were doing it today with precision in mind to set up for precision oriented gas gun competitions and field use as a hunting rifle.

What would you go with today.

Plan on buying 16" Proof SS barrels in 6 ARC and 223 WYLDE

Has anyone tested both the Seekins IRMT system and the ridgeline system back to back in the same conditions.

What other considerations would you take into account for this type of build?

I'm pretty much in the process of selling everything and setting these two up as far as rifles.

I will keep one 11.5" 223 with a T2 but don't plan on any other setups.

MaximusDecimusMeidius · Sunday at 6:06 PM

I've been out of the game for a while. Just want to buy once and cry once directly from the start. I don't want to spend my time constantly changing out parts and selling parts. I have an incredible amount of parts I need to sell already.

The main goal here is maximizing accuracy / precision potential. Also, minimizing shift when shooting from prone off bipod, barricade off game changer, to tripod.

It's hard to know which would have less POI Shift.

The one advantage I can see to the Seekins is ability to use any barrel I want to use and buying off the shelf proof barrels

JR1200W3 · Monday at 4:51 AM

One question. Where would you get the Seekins parts? I haven't seen the IRMT upper and handguards available anywhere. I think you'd have to buy a Seekins DMR just to get the main receiver parts, which probably would be a good buy on it's own.

I don't think Proof barrels are worth the money anymore. For the money I would buy a Craddock RTR, a WOA, or just get a custom barrel made so you can run an intermediate gas on a 16" barrel. I think your challenge with a 16" 6 ARC barrel is getting the right gas length. Mid length is the common answer on 16" barrels but on a 6ARC I would guess you'd definitely want an intermediate length at a minimum, especially if suppressed. I am also starting to develop the idea that a person can buy a mid-tier semi budget barrel for a bolt gun with a fairly reasonable degree of confidence. But in a gas gun there are more variables and opportunities to bite you in the ass with the gas port and barrel extension so that the risk you incur with a mid tier budget barrel is much greater. The way some barrels begin to catch copper on the gas ports and erode quickly is a little bit of a mystery to me and the only way I know to mitigate the risk of getting a barrel like that is to buy from a custom barrel builder so you have someone that's going to back their work. Like Craddock.

I'm sorry, I don't have a Seekins small frame to compare to answer your main question but I do have an LPR. I really like it but after shooting it, pulling it apart and replacing components in it, I think it's over priced. If you make a planning assumption that the Aero Enhanced upper, Seekins IRMT upper, and LPR all have very comparable rigidity the best buy is going to be building off an Aero enhanced upper and handguard but I wouldn't fault someone for wanting to pay a little extra and just buying a Seekins DMR. Euro Optic has 16" 223 Wylde DMRs in stock for $1800 and Scopelist has 18" 6 ARC DMR uppers in stock for $1300.

You can put other barrels in the LPR but the handguard is pretty slim and with an aftermarket heavy barrel you may not be able to fit MLOK accessories on it due to the bolts being to close to the barrel. Seems like a pretty small thing but if you want to run side weights back towards the receiver for competition you may run into issues. You can put a slimmer barrel in it, but then you lose weight and potentially barrel rigidity. It becomes a catch 22. The stock Ridgeline Proof barrel will accommodate MLOK along the side of the handguard.

It's really a shame that a person can't buy builder kits in any of the higher end semi-monolithic small frames. Kind of a weird market gap. It seems like if someone came out with a rifle based on their builder kit that demonstrated little to no handguard shift, had a few handguard length options, and fully ambi bolt release they would do very well.

MaximusDecimusMeidius · Monday at 6:18 AM

I'll call them today. I have some setups I can be using if they will let me place a back order Seekins. It's got a BCM MCMR on it and I'm getting excessive POI shift from position to position

db2000 · Monday at 8:29 AM

I can’t compare but have no issues with Seekins.
I also suggest 18” 6 ARC and +1 gas. This is the sweet spot for reliability and velocity.

Jsp556 · Monday at 2:53 PM

I ordered a Seekins lower, irmt upper, and handguard 10/5 of this year. The hand guard was the last to ship and it arrived at my house 12/13.

While prettier, upper to lower fit as well as handguard to upper fit is about the same as the Aero enhanced parts fit. Both fall considerably short of the billet Mega MML stuff.

The walls of both the Mega and Seekins uppers are thicker than the Aero enhanced.

I’m still waiting for the barrel to ship from PF to finish the Seekins rifle.

Set up identically, 18” spr profile barrels with a Socom 2 Mini 762 suppressor, I’m seeing less than .2 mil poi shift with both the Mega and Aero enhanced. If I’m conscious about cheek pressure when shooting from a bipod(roughly 12” from the mag well) and rear bag, there’s next to no poi shift when shooting off a bag right at the handguard. I figure the Seekins will be on par with the others. I have no experience with Ridgeline rifle.

The Aero Enhanced set ups really are becoming some of my favorites.

I have a 16” Rainier match 6 ARC barrel with rifle gas. There are ejector swipes with all of the factory Hornady ammo offerings using an H buffer and standard low profile gas block. I’ve built a few 16” Mid gas 6.5 Grendels and have yet to see ejector swipes with any factory ammo. The ARC is undoubtedly more sensitive to port size and location.

JR1200W3 · Monday at 2:57 PM

The upper and lower fitment on the LPR-15 is the best I've personally seen. The handguard is thermally fitted to the upper. The receiver is thermally fitted with a barrel. It's all very tight.

Cascade Hemi · Monday at 4:03 PM

Ridgeline uses a proof barrel.

jljames81 · Monday at 7:35 PM

I would also consider the Larue stealth upper and handguard for 489 bucks. The handguard mounts to the receiver instead of the barrel nut. It only comes in 13 inch though.

https://www.freedomtrading.com/LaRue-Tactical-Stealth-2-0-upper-and-handguard-13-p/lt559-13.htm

MaximusDecimusMeidius · Monday at 7:54 PM

Thank you everyone for all the information. There are a lot of good options out there. I am partial to the Seekins. I placed a back order for two IRMT-3 Uppers. Two 15" hand guards. Two SP10M ARCA rails. Two SP3RV3 Rails. 15" Mlok. Also, placed an order for a 16" Proof 6ARC and a 16" Proof 223 Wylde.

db2000 · Monday at 8:36 PM

MaximusDecimusMeidius said:
Thank you everyone for all the information. There are a lot of good options out there. I am partial to the Seekins. I placed a back order for two IRMT-3 Uppers. Two 15" hand guards. Two SP10M ARCA rails. Two SP3RV3 Rails. 15" Mlok. Also, placed an order for a 16" Proof 6ARC and a 16" Proof 223 Wylde.

You may know but proof recommends JP HP bolts to
headspace correctly to their barrels. That’s what I went with building my Seekins in a similar manner. I use the Seekins bolt carriers. These will be great builds. Definitely get AGB. Superlative Arms fits under the hand guard for sure.

MaximusDecimusMeidius · Monday at 8:45 PM

My plan is to use an A5 length buffer tube with a Geissele Super 42 Rifle Length Spring. Griffin SOB Buffer. I will try the YHM Suppressor Gas Block first. Then if it is undergassed with the YHM Suppressor gas block then I will try a Geissele gas block.

I normally use the Lantac Enhanced carriers because I like the flared tail section on an accuracy build and then I normally do buy JP bolts to but in the Lantac enhanced carrier

SFree · Monday at 9:28 PM

The SOLGW Broadsword upper/lower kits were also available, good deals during Black Friday….

MaximusDecimusMeidius · Monday at 9:32 PM

SFree said:
The SOLGW Broadsword upper/lower kits were also available, good deals during Black Friday….

Nothing against those upper and lowers. I'm sure they are a good quality product but there is nothing about them that would prevent excessive POI shift when shooting from different types of positions in a competitions that I can see

BurtG · Tuesday at 7:20 AM

MaximusDecimusMeidius said:
Thank you everyone for all the information. There are a lot of good options out there. I am partial to the Seekins. I placed a back order for two IRMT-3 Uppers. Two 15" hand guards. Two SP10M ARCA rails. Two SP3RV3 Rails. 15" Mlok. Also, placed an order for a 16" Proof 6ARC and a 16" Proof 223 Wylde.

If you are a arca person and it sounds like you are , I’d cancel that. Get the Seekins enhanced that takes round handguards. (Or the aero enhanced ). And buy sgt of arms handguards with integrated arca.

Saying this as a person that has a a 556 and 6.5cm with the DMR handguards and attached arca. And later built a 556 with sgt of arms. The sgt of arms is slimmer

RD15 is a awesome rifle too. Handguard is slimmer yet which is nice unless you want to put a fat barrel in there. Mine is very actuate with stock proof barrel.

But yeah arca. Integrated is better regardless of what @Terry Cross says

JR1200W3 · Tuesday at 11:30 AM

BurtG said:
If you are a arca person and it sounds like you are , I’d cancel that. Get the Seekins enhanced that takes round handguards. (Or the aero enhanced ). And buy sgt of arms handguards with integrated arca.

Saying this as a person that has a a 556 and 6.5cm with the DMR handguards and attached arca. And later built a 556 with sgt of arms. The sgt of arms is slimmer

View attachment 8571143
View attachment 8571144
View attachment 8571142

RD15 is a awesome rifle too. Handguard is slimmer yet which is nice unless you want to put a fat barrel in there. Mine is very actuate with stock proof barrel.

But yeah arca. Integrated is better regardless of what @Terry Cross says
View attachment 8571146

I didn't know SgtoArms made aftermarket for Aero. That's pretty cool, I'm going to have to pick up a 17.5". I didn't see a Seekins IRMT model on there tho. Did you say they made one for the Seekins SPR version?

Looking at the SgtoArms handguards made me think about the Aero M4 Enhanced. The RD LPR method is about 3 times as beefy in the joint between the upper and handguard. The overlap in the dovetailing pieces is much more significant. IIRC the SP-10M builders kit I have is very similar to the Aero Enhanced. Just tighter in the joint, but very similar. Still not quite as beefy in length and dovetailing like the RD solution.

I'm going to get the 22 ARC in Aero Enhanced out this week to test the handguard flex. Probably going to buy the SgtoArms 17.5" handguard too.

BurtG · Tuesday at 11:41 AM

JR1200W3 said:
didn't know SgtoArms made aftermarket for Aero. That's pretty cool, I'm going to have to pick up a 17.5". I didn't see a Seekins IRMT model on there tho. Did you say they made one for the Seekins SPR version?

This one

https://seekinsprecision.com/seekins-precision-irmt-r-upper.html

Will accept the aero or sgt of arms handguards.

The triangle DMR Seekins will only accept the Seekins hg

BurtG · Tuesday at 11:44 AM

JR1200W3 said:
The RD LPR method is about 3 times as beefy in the joint between the upper and handguard.

Interesting. My rd15 is def my end of the war gun.

But my aero sgt arms Douglas jp bcg Ops can rig is so quiet and smooth and accurate

NHPiper · Tuesday at 11:57 AM

BurtG said:
If you are a arca person and it sounds like you are , I’d cancel that. Get the Seekins enhanced that takes round handguards. (Or the aero enhanced ). And buy sgt of arms handguards with integrated arca.

Saying this as a person that has a a 556 and 6.5cm with the DMR handguards and attached arca. And later built a 556 with sgt of arms. The sgt of arms is slimmer

View attachment 8571143
View attachment 8571144
View attachment 8571142

RD15 is a awesome rifle too. Handguard is slimmer yet which is nice unless you want to put a fat barrel in there. Mine is very actuate with stock proof barrel.

But yeah arca. Integrated is better regardless of what @Terry Cross says
View attachment 8571146

What's the barrel and handguard length on the Sgt. setup with your OCM5/AEM5 tucked under it?

BurtG · Tuesday at 12:00 PM

16” barrel 17.5 hg iirc

JR1200W3 · Tuesday at 12:01 PM

BurtG said:
Interesting. My rd15 is def my end of the war gun.

But my aero sgt arms Douglas jp bcg Ops can rig is so quiet and smooth and accurate

Ya, the extended portion of the receiver that the handguard slips over is longer in the LPR. And the LPR handguard has a "shovel nose" lip that extends under the receiver for even additional traction and mating with the upper receiver. And then instead of little screws bolting the handguard to the upper receiver, it uses those dovetail blocks with a much wider surface area to bear weight and pressure. Like the difference between joinery and just screwing two boards together in a 90* corner with a wood screw.

The LPR definitely benefits from JP components. I've got a SCS in it right now and it made a lot of difference in smoothness of cycling; got LoMass BCG and a BRT EZ tune tube in the mail to match. The VLTOR A5 is a nice moderate improvement over standard carbine parts but it's pretty incremental step up compared to a JP system.

BurtG · Tuesday at 12:47 PM

JR1200W3 said:
The LPR definitely benefits from JP components. I've got a SCS in it right now and it made a lot of difference in smoothness of cycling; got LoMass BCG and a BRT EZ tune tube in the mail to match.

Meh I think your changing it from a hard use fighting rifle into more of a gamer gun when you mess with all that stuff.

JR1200W3 · Tuesday at 12:53 PM

BurtG said:
Meh I think your changing it from a hard use fighting rifle into more of a gamer gun when you mess with all that stuff.

Maybe. But it is also a civilian sales AR-15. Let's not pretend it is something else, just to spice up a gun enthusiast experience of ownership through rattlecan "vibes".

MaximusDecimusMeidius · Tuesday at 7:58 PM

BurtG said:
If you are a arca person and it sounds like you are , I’d cancel that. Get the Seekins enhanced that takes round handguards. (Or the aero enhanced ). And buy sgt of arms handguards with integrated arca.

Saying this as a person that has a a 556 and 6.5cm with the DMR handguards and attached arca. And later built a 556 with sgt of arms. The sgt of arms is slimmer

View attachment 8571143
View attachment 8571144
View attachment 8571142

RD15 is a awesome rifle too. Handguard is slimmer yet which is nice unless you want to put a fat barrel in there. Mine is very actuate with stock proof barrel.

But yeah arca. Integrated is better regardless of what @Terry Cross says
View attachment 8571146

10-4 brother.

Nice setups btw

Maybe I should try the 15.5" handguard for the 16" proof 6ARC barrel

MaximusDecimusMeidius · Tuesday at 8:03 PM

JR1200W3 said:
I didn't know SgtoArms made aftermarket for Aero. That's pretty cool, I'm going to have to pick up a 17.5". I didn't see a Seekins IRMT model on there tho. Did you say they made one for the Seekins SPR version?

Looking at the SgtoArms handguards made me think about the Aero M4 Enhanced. The RD LPR method is about 3 times as beefy in the joint between the upper and handguard. The overlap in the dovetailing pieces is much more significant. IIRC the SP-10M builders kit I have is very similar to the Aero Enhanced. Just tighter in the joint, but very similar. Still not quite as beefy in length and dovetailing like the RD solution.

I'm going to get the 22 ARC in Aero Enhanced out this week to test the handguard flex. Probably going to buy the SgtoArms 17.5" handguard too.

Keep us updated on your results

I have the seekins dmr style uppers and handguards on order now

two of them ... one for a 223 wylde build nd one for 6ARC build

that is making me want to do a ridgeline LPR instead when you say that at least for the 223 since they don't offer a 6 arc right now

MaximusDecimusMeidius · Tuesday at 8:05 PM

seekins estimated about four months to fill the backorders but they let me place backorders

JR1200W3 · Tuesday at 8:52 PM

MaximusDecimusMeidius said:
that is making me want to do a ridgeline LPR instead when you say that at least for the 223 since they don't offer a 6 arc right now

All it would take is a barrel and a JP high pressure bolt

cypriss32 · Wednesday at 12:58 AM

BurtG said:
If you are a arca person and it sounds like you are , I’d cancel that. Get the Seekins enhanced that takes round handguards. (Or the aero enhanced ). And buy sgt of arms handguards with integrated arca.

Saying this as a person that has a a 556 and 6.5cm with the DMR handguards and attached arca. And later built a 556 with sgt of arms. The sgt of arms is slimmer

View attachment 8571143
View attachment 8571144
View attachment 8571142

RD15 is a awesome rifle too. Handguard is slimmer yet which is nice unless you want to put a fat barrel in there. Mine is very actuate with stock proof barrel.

But yeah arca. Integrated is better regardless of what @Terry Cross says
View attachment 8571146

You have a lot of 2.5-20x how are you liking them?

BurtG · Wednesday at 8:14 AM

cypriss32 said:
You have a lot of 2.5-20x how are you liking them?

Great for hunting / clip on thermal use. You do need to change the parallax more when switching ranges than other scopes.

If you don’t need the low end mag for target acquisition and don’t mind the weight , 4-16x42 nf or zco 420 are my go to

MaximusDecimusMeidius · Wednesday at 7:40 PM

it's so tough deciding between the ridgeline or assembling my own based of the seekins parts and proof barrels

it may come down to which ever one ships their back orders first

DeathBeforeDismount · Wednesday at 8:02 PM

Buy a stratomatch. That gets you a giessele cut rifle barrel. Buy the gun there is a ton of tech and features in there no other AR has.

BurtG · Wednesday at 8:13 PM

DeathBeforeDismount said:
Buy a stratomatch. That gets you a giessele cut rifle barrel. Buy the gun there is a ton of tech and features in there no other AR has.

Sell me on what it has to reduce poi poa flex

I don’t see that it use an “enhanced” upper

JR1200W3 · Wednesday at 8:14 PM

MaximusDecimusMeidius said:
Maybe I should try the 15.5" handguard for the 16" proof 6ARC barrel

If that proof barrel is right at 16.1" you would be cutting it pretty close since you'll lose 1/2" for threads. You generally want at least .8" of clearance from the muzzle to the front of your handguard. The other variables is if you're muzzle device allows some stand off and the back of the suppressor doesn't come back flush with the shoulder and how the handguard manufacturer measures 15.5".

BurtG · Wednesday at 8:19 PM

JR1200W3 said:
If that proof barrel is right at 16.1" you would be cutting it pretty close since you'll lose 1/2" for threads. You generally want at least .8" of clearance from the muzzle to the front of your handguard. The other variables is if you're muzzle device allows some stand off and the back of the suppressor doesn't come back flush with the shoulder and how the handguard manufacturer measures

The can fits inside sgt of arms and some aero handguards didnt mean to be bold

JR1200W3 · Wednesday at 8:21 PM

BurtG said:
The can fits inside sgt of arms and some aero handguards didnt mean to be bold

View attachment 8572390

Good call, didn't think of that.

Updated my post on the POI shift thread with an Aero enhanced btw

BurtG · Wednesday at 9:19 PM

JR1200W3 said:
Good call, didn't think of that.

Updated my post on the POI shift thread with an Aero enhanced btw

Link I can’t find it

JR1200W3 · Wednesday at 9:24 PM

BurtG said:
Link I can’t find it

Post in thread 'AR Positional POI Shift Test' https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/ar-positional-poi-shift-test.7221976/post-11901322

MaximusDecimusMeidius · 2024-12-19T06:01:16-0500

has anyone compared the seekins irmt poi shift in different positions to the ridgeline defense lpr poi shift in that thread?

PBWalsh · 2024-12-19T09:24:08-0500

Jsp556 said:
I ordered a Seekins lower, irmt upper, and handguard 10/5 of this year. The hand guard was the last to ship and it arrived at my house 12/13.

While prettier, upper to lower fit as well as handguard to upper fit is about the same as the Aero enhanced parts fit. Both fall considerably short of the billet Mega MML stuff.

The walls of both the Mega and Seekins uppers are thicker than the Aero enhanced.

I’m still waiting for the barrel to ship from PF to finish the Seekins rifle.

Set up identically, 18” spr profile barrels with a Socom 2 Mini 762 suppressor, I’m seeing less than .2 mil poi shift with both the Mega and Aero enhanced. If I’m conscious about cheek pressure when shooting from a bipod(roughly 12” from the mag well) and rear bag, there’s next to no poi shift when shooting off a bag right at the handguard. I figure the Seekins will be on par with the others. I have no experience with Ridgeline rifle.

The Aero Enhanced set ups really are becoming some of my favorites.

I have a 16” Rainier match 6 ARC barrel with rifle gas. There are ejector swipes with all of the factory Hornady ammo offerings using an H buffer and standard low profile gas block. I’ve built a few 16” Mid gas 6.5 Grendels and have yet to see ejector swipes with any factory ammo. The ARC is undoubtedly more sensitive to port size and location.

Good to read. My Aero enhanced has a .2 mil shift with a 10.5" handguard. Wondered if a longer handguard would give a higher shift. Between your results and the linked post above, I'd feel confident buying a 15" handguard for that upper if I ever decide to get a 16" barrel again.

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