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22arc versus 6 arc
- Thread starter BurtG
- Start date
Did both the 5 & 3 prove sufficient in keeping the bullet seated?I experimented with 5 thou and 3 thou. Counter-intuitively the 5 thou load produced flyers in every group I shot with it. The 3 thou only had flyers in 1:3 groups.
I went all in on 6 Arc in early 2024 since the ammo availability and parts have much improved. Unfortunately the 6.5 Grendel hasnt left the safe since this summer. I primarily use a 18" barreled 6 Arc in my gas-gun for coyotes. But I might rebuild it with a 14.5 or 16" to shorten the length a little and take apart the 6.5g gun and build it back up with the 18" barrel for range use.
Recently I just picked up a Howa mini-action and an MDT Oryx chassis for some upcoming PRS style matches. The barrel life should be much better than the other popular 6mm calibers too.
Plastic tips breaking off on the 88s seems to be a new problem. They're breaking off on their own, in package. Those that survive and make it to loaded rounds, run the risk of the tip breaking or coming off mid flight and steering the bullet onto a bad trajectory.
I wish I had a pic, but I was a bit rushed for time. Anyway, I had two 123 gr 6.5mm ELD-M from a Grendel that had bashed unceremoniously off the feed ramp of my rifle and bent the tips just about 90 deg off true. I needed them to complete the stage so they were scooped out of the dirt, jammed down in the mag and sent. Both hit at ~ 400y. The target was pretty generous, 2-3 moa, but they hit it…
I would be somewhat less concerned about a tip that broke clean off.
Shooooot I did not realize this was a thing. Furthering my itch to build a mk12 in 22 arc. That is a nutty BC for a 85gr 22 cal round.
Might be ok for a bolt action that isn’t used for comps
Hornady will prolly introduce better bullets than that anyway.
I’m gonna build a 22 ARC for yotes and 62 ELD-VTs. Used those bullets this past week in my 223 (3277 gps) on yotes and they were stellar out to 897.
With 85.5s in a 223 I can get very close to 6 Dasher performance (2860 with 25gn of Varget) so should be easy with those or 88 ELD-Ms with the ARC.
With 85.5s in a 223 I can get very close to 6 Dasher performance (2860 with 25gn of Varget) so should be easy with those or 88 ELD-Ms with the ARC.
That yote took 2 shots. First round was good on wind, but .3 low and next shot I corrected after he stopped and dropped him. Out of the 7 yotes I shot most were between 200-300 with one at 400 and 570.
I corrected my axial form factor and verified it the next day on a 12” circle at 950. I have 4/5 hits on that target with the initial miss just being wind, elevation was good. This was my first time using these bullets for anything and I was happy with the results. They do seem to like being close to the lands. Mine were loaded .010” off.
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My bet is Alpha will put out some brass for it. I’m just in the beginning stages of planning a build. Didn’t really want to go 22CM, but 22Dasher is also an option.Someone needs to figure out a reamer, brass, and die combo that isn't a massive PITA. Right now, whatever reamer Craddock uses, Hornady 22 ARC dies, Hornady 22 ARC brass, and Hornady/ Lapua 6.5G brass.....none of it matches. I'm using a Redding 6.5G Type S bushing die, a .224 Expander mandrel, and Hornady 6.5G brass. Fired brass in the Craddock chamber measures .2515 - .252". Unturned, loaded neck diameter measures .251. I can turn the necks to get loaded rounds to measure .249 but then I need an oddball bushing of .246 or so. And a mandrel will pump out an unloaded neck of .248 which isn't really great.
I don't have any Hornady 22 ARC brass but when it first available people were saying the Hornady dies didn't size the necks enough. Like it was thinner than the Grendel brass. Like .0125 vs .015. And the die was made for 6.5 G brass. Which it does work just fine with Hornady 6.5G brass except for the fact that there isn't enough clearance on a loaded round.
Lapua brass can't take near the powder that Hornady brass can. 22 ARC and 6.5G is the only cartridge where I prefer Hornady brass. I just had to relearn my lesson for a third time. I formed 15rds of Lapua brass, neck turned it for 3 thou tension and 4 thou clearance, dropped 1 grain out of my Hornady brass load and tested it. I couldn't get the fired brass into a shell holder.And it was almost 100fps slower. 26.5gr/2760 vs 27.5/ 2845fps
I would wait until Alpha comes out with their brass and get a reamer made for it. Then use Redding bushing dies.
Or just go straight 22PPC....
Just a data point,
20” Proof Carbon 22 ARC shoots factory 75s at 2915fps with great accuracy.
Going to see about killing fur with it.
My 6ARC thumps hogs pretty good. We’ll see if this comes close at PBR.
20” Proof Carbon 22 ARC shoots factory 75s at 2915fps with great accuracy.
Going to see about killing fur with it.
My 6ARC thumps hogs pretty good. We’ll see if this comes close at PBR.
What velocities are you getting from your GT? Really just looking to push the 62s and maybe the 88s
Thanks. I’ll go into GRT later and see what 22 GT kinda wants for powder for 62s. I’ve shot about 50 or so VTs and none have gone kaboom. My 223 was originally build for 85s so it has a 7 twist in it.
Note I’m hunting yotes here in the plains of CO and around 2200-2900 feet in South Dakota, where I was this past week.
What are people getting as far as velocity from a 16” 22 arc with 85-90 grain bullets?
Here is what I’m getting with a 16” proof 6 arc with factory loaded 108 eld m ammo.
Here is what I’m getting with a 16” proof 6 arc with factory loaded 108 eld m ammo.
Which make barrel and how many rounds down it? I ask because I see 30-40fps better than that with factory 108's in my Proof 14.5".
Proof Stainless. It has around 30 rounds on it so far. It might pick up some
10-4 brother
so pretty much it's 200 fps or maybe a little more fps for the same bc
definite buyer's remorse with 6 arc now
Depends on what you're using it for. For steel out past 600 the 6 ARC is the clear winner and on medium size game I'll take the 6 ARC. If you're just planning to shoot p-dogs and coyotes then the 22 ARC takes the cake.
what makes the 6 arc better past 600?
it seems like the 22 arc will always start out faster at the muzzle?
will the 6 arc retain it's speed better at distance?
will it be less affected by the wind?
when you see it as 23 grains it seems small but that's 27% more bullet. for spotting impacts that helps, for knocking down silhouettes it also helps
this is as close as I can get them using assumed mv's from 16" barrels and it requires using a 6mm projectile of unknown consistency as far as shape, weight, bc variation from bullet to bullet
112 match burner at 2500 fps at muzzle
85.5 berger lrht at 2750 fps at muzzle
112 match burner at 2500 fps at muzzle
85.5 berger lrht at 2750 fps at muzzle
I agree. I'm not sure what a good mv number for a 16" 6 arc and a 112 match burner would be. I'll do it again with 2450 fps at muzzle
can 115 dtacs in a 6 arc case be loaded in a geissele 6 arc mag with a reasonable amount of room left over for powder?
6 ARC is better at distance than 6.5G (windage/drop) and I already have multiple 300BLK's for large subs and supers inside of 200 out of a shorty.
It's all about what makes you happy and every person thinks they can zero in on THE magic formula but everyone's equation is different.
Midsouth has 80gr ELDM for $.26/ea plus shipping.
For keeping inside of safe pressure limits of an ar15 those numbers should be about 100-200fps considering 24" barrels.
i'm not the brightest bulb in the box ...
but to me for the same barrel length, it looks like 22 arc always has an advantage over 6 arc in drop due to higher mv's
the only way you get less wind drift with 6 arc than 22 arc is if you go up to a 115 dtac or 112 match burner
if you look at factory hornady ammo, the 88 eld m and the 108 eld m are fairly close in bc
i don't even know if 112 match burners or 115 dtacs are a good fit for the 6 arc case and geissele arc mags
it will be a good while before I unpack my reloading equipment anyway to test it out
but to me for the same barrel length, it looks like 22 arc always has an advantage over 6 arc in drop due to higher mv's
the only way you get less wind drift with 6 arc than 22 arc is if you go up to a 115 dtac or 112 match burner
if you look at factory hornady ammo, the 88 eld m and the 108 eld m are fairly close in bc
i don't even know if 112 match burners or 115 dtacs are a good fit for the 6 arc case and geissele arc mags
it will be a good while before I unpack my reloading equipment anyway to test it out
If you hit the target and no one knows it, does it count? If you can't spot your miss, what is the correction? Spotting misses and hits is quite important to getting on target.
105+ bullets splash better and move plates considerably more than 80-90g 22 cal bullets.
The proof 16" i have is a rifle length gas system. I use a YHM suppressor gas block. Griffin SOB buffer. A5 length buffer tube. Geissele Rifle Length braided buffer spring. TBAC Dominus suppressor. I'm sure the gas sytem could always be tuned in a little better but I'm happy with it. Has been 100% so far without any malfunctions.
Now, I have an 18" 223 Proof barrel with rifle length gas system also. It is severely under-gassed when used with the YHM suppressor gas block. I will swap out a Geissele gas block and see if it's not too over gassed with the same components listed above.
Seems like you didn't realize you were making an argument for all low cost options related to the subject. Literally anything but the scabbiest sewer pipe will be good enough for the criteria you outlined, to include Hornady knockoffs.
a small frame ar will never compete with a bolt gun in the game of prs
the 6 dasher is fairly successful at the game of prs
i think people are trying to get as close to 6 dasher levels of performance out of a small frame ar as they could out of a bolt gun
that will never happen
one of the main reasons people like 6 dasher in a bolt gun is how easy it is to load for and not having to constantly tune the load, you can keep your reloading practices almost the same throughout the life of the barrel
i think there is an argument to be made that the 22 arc gets closer to 6 dasher ballistics than 6 arc
if you compare the velocities that are reasonable from a 22 arc with a berger 85.5 lrht versus a 6 dasher with 109 lrht and the bc's between the two projectiles
the 6 dasher is fairly successful at the game of prs
i think people are trying to get as close to 6 dasher levels of performance out of a small frame ar as they could out of a bolt gun
that will never happen
one of the main reasons people like 6 dasher in a bolt gun is how easy it is to load for and not having to constantly tune the load, you can keep your reloading practices almost the same throughout the life of the barrel
i think there is an argument to be made that the 22 arc gets closer to 6 dasher ballistics than 6 arc
if you compare the velocities that are reasonable from a 22 arc with a berger 85.5 lrht versus a 6 dasher with 109 lrht and the bc's between the two projectiles
Has anyone had success with 115 dtacs in an ar or is that not a good combination with low velocity or seating depth issues at mag length?
I'd even argue a LFG wont compete with bolt guns in the game of PRS. Maybe I've been out of the loop, are there top shooters placing with LFGs now?
On topic i think the 22 is the more suitable cartridge in a small frame gas gun. Lighter bullets with comparable BC, in nearly identical powder capacity.
You're the only one trying to make it an argument. I was shooting fast 22s with heavey bullets before you ever joined the sight. Yes, i say 105 have considerably more splash than 80-90g bullets. You want to argue semantics of what considerably is. Its more. There is no debate.
At the same time, I see people going back to 6.5 creed because they want to spot hits and misses better. It's mostly all give and take.
Some folks have gone back to 6.5 Creeds for the primary reason of using heavy 6.5 bullets with better BCs to help in really windy environments. More splash is just secondary or tertiary
