X - Vectronix Shooting Solutions

4O6shootist · Dec 22, 2024

carbonbased said:
So out in far west ND, right? Near Teddy Roosevelt Nat’l Park?

If so, that tends to be the warmer part of ND. The far eastern bit of ND is so brutal and much worse than the far western part.

A huge part of it is the wind. A large part of the far east is on the bottom of Lake Agassi, which is an ancient dried-up flat lakebed that extended up into Canada. But the east colder too.

Here’s a typical map of ND avg temps in Feb:
View attachment 8575192

Fargo is bad, but Grand Forks and Minot are even worse. Plus there’s nothing to do!

The -70°F record in Montana is on top of a continental pass…nobody lives there. ND inflicts its pain on regular towns of 25k to 150k people. It’s crazy that people live there and don’t move.

But I’ll give you that Cut Bank, MT (pop. ~3000) sounds like it sucks. At least you’re closer to mountains and beautiful scenery.

Not so sure Cut Bank is the coldest town in the lower 48 either. Maybe on average? Can’t find stats.

Coldest Place in The Nation

When driving into Cut Bank, it's hard to miss the giant penguin statue. The sign says that it is the coldest place in the nation, but is it? That is

www.montanarightnow.com

As I mentioned, there’s a number of towns in ND with -60° or -59° records. Cut Bank’s record is -47°F.

Spent a lot of time from Canada border to Stanley region, Bowbells, McGregor Tioga. Fn cold windy country with nothing to stop that wind. I think cut bank is the coldest on average. It's not uncommon for me to leave Kalispell in the teens/twenties midwinter and drop into other side of pass and it's -25 over near browning cut bank, all in a 80 mile drive, shits nuts. ANYWAYS no more talking bout the weather, more about the vectronix! I'll be home from work in a few days and hopefully my batteries have shown up.

kingston · Dec 23, 2024

My 12x SMR arrived last week. I'm still testing, but my first impression is that the glass is good, ranging through rolling hills is very good, ergos are sus (both handling and optical), ER is lacking for use with glasses, IPD is fussy and lacks graduation or lock, tripod mount location further undermines handling ergos.

I'm coming from the Geovid (HD-B 3000), but don't use the ballistic function as it's severely limited on this model. Workflow involves Geovids used to glass and range, range is manually entered into Kestrel 5700 4DOF. Geovid glass is great, ergos are great both handling (except button resistance) and optical, but accurate ranging is hampered by reticle and tech. I shoot a lot of woodchucks. They can be difficult to accurately range in rolling hills with the Geovid HD-B 3000 at ranges over 350yrds, the range when bullet drop and wind drift start to be a critical factor.

Regarding the Vector-X I was excited to have a unit that could truly integrate atmospheric data, ballistic computation, highly accurate and reliable LRF and observation. A cursory look at the Vector-X HUD and menus is promising. Switching to AB is still a wild card and reading social media threads on their Quantum rollout has been less than inspiring. I want a solution that works in perpetuity without being connected to the internet or a smart phone. AB seems to be going the other way, but I won't claim to really understand where they're going and they won't say until SHOT.

My biggest concern with the Vector-X's are its optical ergos. I'm finding them to be very optically taxing to use and cause a headache almost immediately. Just now thinking about it, the only other time I've had this happen with binoculars was when they were out of collimation. Maybe that's at play here. I should go check.

Edit: No collimation issues as far as I can tell. I did find that correct IPD is critical and difficult to achieve and maintain. Much of this is likely due to my wearing glasses and the device's 17mm eye relief and 3.5mm exit pupil. I'd really like to try the 10x and even 8x to see if I'm experiencing the same issues.

NiteQwill · Dec 23, 2024

AB doesn't require Internet to use... So I'm confused by that statement.

Kestrel Elites have been putting solutions on targets for years, without issues.

kingston · Dec 23, 2024

Does anyone have the 8X SMR? I'm not even sure it landed yet. I think the 10x came first and then the 12x.
Edit: I see Eurooptic has the 8x in stock.

alex2x2 · Dec 23, 2024

NiteQwill said:
AB doesn't require Internet to use..

it asks to turn Bluetooth ON every time I launch it.

NiteQwill · Dec 23, 2024

alex2x2 said:
it asks to turn Bluetooth ON every time I launch it.

Yea, because it's looking for devices. Annoying, yes... But whatever.

Natestreo · Dec 25, 2024

Interested if anyone has tried the nitecore cold weather 18650’s yet.

alex2x2 · Dec 25, 2024

Natestreo said:
Interested if anyone has tried the nitecore cold weather 18650’s yet.

This won't help because the problem is most likely with the electronic components, not the battery. This has already happened with the Vectronix PLRF 10. It doesn't matter what battery is installed. It didn't work at -10 Celsius (14 F)

lonestar1845 · Dec 26, 2024

alex2x2 said:
This won't help because the problem is most likely with the electronic components, not the battery. This has already happened with the Vectronix PLRF 10. It doesn't matter what battery is installed. It didn't work at -10 Celsius (14 F)

No, it's the battery for sure. Or at least the battery is what fails first.

My binos worked down to -5° F (lowest I've tested) with a warm battery. Cold battery into warm binos, they won't work.

The only 18650 I've tested is a rechargeable streamlight. I can leave it installed in the binos in my freezer at -5° F for an hour, fire them up and they work just fine.

The 123 batteries that come in the vectors definitely fail not too far below freezing temperatures.

My guess is that these binos have a higher startup current than others, which the 123's can't handle when they're frozen.

alex2x2 · Dec 26, 2024

lonestar1845 said:
My binos worked down to -5° F

lonestar1845 said:
I can leave it installed in the binos in my freezer at -5° F for an hour, fire them up and they work just fine.

Could you please to test it again? You can place Kestrel and Vector X in the freezer then try to laze something .

lonestar1845 · Dec 26, 2024

alex2x2 said:
Could you please to test it again? You can place Kestrel and Vector X in the freezer then try to laze something .

Yep. Even took a video, but i guess I'd have to upload it to YouTube or something before I can post on here.

Included some screen shots though. Kestrel and binos in the freezer for over an hour. Double checked freezer temp with thermoworks air probes.

Kestrel with a new battery doesn't even work that cold (see pic) it would never start up. Binos fired up and operated as they should.

Edit: Looks like the pictures wouldn't upload. Link to video-->

alex2x2 · Dec 26, 2024

lonestar1845 said:
Kestrel with a new battery doesn't even work that cold (see pic) it would never start up.

you should reach Kestrel support for warranty replacement. It should operate with no issues.

lonestar1845 said:
Binos fired up and operated as they should.

Thank you so much. I really appreciate that.

lonestar1845 · Dec 26, 2024

Just realized I had an alkaline battery in the kestrel. Alkaline really doesn't like cold weather. I'll try a lithium.

alex2x2 · Dec 26, 2024

lonestar1845 said:
I'll try a lithium.

It's a good idea.

Natestreo · Dec 26, 2024

I ordered the nitecore cold weather 18650 today to test. Will report back.

smithjd · Thursday at 3:11 PM

I finally received the Nightcore NL1835 LTHP battery. I charge it to full and left it in the Vector-X's outside all night. It is about 17-18F out now and they seem to be working well. I'm leaving them in the truck. It is supposed to be near zero overnight in the next couple days and will check again.

StrayDog · Thursday at 3:27 PM

Getting to know my 12x DMRs.
My laser is pretty much centered, just a hair low and right of the center crosshair junction, whew!
Eye relief is not the best for wearing glasses, but better than some other LRFBs.
Also, prefer the A419 mount over the RRS.
Very happy so far.

Greg.benson · Friday at 4:12 AM

StrayDog said:
Getting to know my 12x DMRs.
My laser is pretty much centered, just a hair low and right of the center crosshair junction, whew!
Eye relief is not the best for wearing glasses, but better than some other LRFBs.
Also, prefer the A419 mount over the RRS.
Very happy so far.

When did you order? I got a June pre order into euro but been thinking of just going with 10x’s if it going to be much longer.

StrayDog · Friday at 2:10 PM

Natestreo · Friday at 11:43 PM

I’ll be taking my 10x to MKM for the match on the 11th. Expecting snow on the ground. I’ve got the nitecore cold weather performance 18650 to test.

4O6shootist · Saturday at 5:35 AM

-10° here in ND tonight at work, grabbed mine out the truck, nothing from the CR123A. My nitecore cold weather 18650 batteries were delivered at home, unfortunately I'm not there. Maybe Sancho can try them in his.

Natestreo · 2025-01-08T14:38:46-0500

4 degrees here today. Not having any issues with the binos using the Nitecore cold weather 18650.

Natestreo · 2025-01-08T16:09:59-0500

Not sure If I'm dense or if something isnt working as intended ..

I would expect the Vector X target card to update as I update the wind direction and speed. Am I expecting too much? I dont see any change in value within the binos themselves (not using the app currently) when this is updated.

Separately ...

Trying to determine the most efficient solution to setting up a target card for each PRS stage at an event using both a Kestrel and the Binos. I want to be able to spot my targets, confirm distance, and have up to date environmental data as close to my turn to fire as possible. Turning myself in circles with it currently ...

lonestar1845 · 2025-01-08T16:45:07-0500

Natestreo said:
Not sure If I'm dense or if something isnt working as intended ..

I would expect the Vector X target card to update as I update the wind direction and speed. Am I expecting too much? I dont see any change in value within the binos themselves (not using the app currently) when this is updated.

Separately ...

Trying to determine the most efficient solution to setting up a target card for each PRS stage at an event using both a Kestrel and the Binos. I want to be able to spot my targets, confirm distance, and have up to date environmental data as close to my turn to fire as possible. Turning myself in circles with it currently ...

I'm just getting around to playing with all the features. It seems as of now when using the vectors as a stand alone device, you must manually change wind direction. It doesn't "capture" the wind to a certain azimuth then calculate with DOF. Which is pretty lame, hopefully they can add that in an update.

Now with a kestrel connected, it will use the captured wind and your DOF to give you an accurate solution. In fact it uses everything from the kestrel. Wind speed, wind direction, the gun profile selected in kestrel, atmospherics, etc. The vectors give range, DOF and inclination then display the solution in the vector HUD.

There is a glitch while using target card with my kestrel connected. It gives me wild values on the first few targets. I have a service request in to Vectronix to see what's up with that. Could be a weird setting on kestrel but I doubt it.

Natestreo · 2025-01-08T16:51:08-0500

lonestar1845 said:
I'm just getting around to playing with all the features. It seems as of now when using the vectors as a stand alone device, you must manually change wind direction. It doesn't "capture" the wind to a certain azimuth then calculate with DOF. Which is pretty lame, hopefully they can add that in an update.

Now with a kestrel connected, it will use the captured wind and your DOF to give you an accurate solution. In fact it uses everything from the kestrel. Wind speed, wind direction, the gun profile selected in kestrel, atmospherics, etc. The vectors give range, DOF and inclination then display the solution in the vector HUD.

There is a glitch while using target card with my kestrel connected. It gives me wild values on the first few targets. I have a service request in to Vectronix to see what's up with that. Could be a weird setting on kestrel but I doubt it.

I was under the impression that the internal compass of the Binos was capturing DOF when using standalone?

When I’ve tested with kestrel paired I can indeed get updated info to and from the kestrel and the Binos … but only for a single target at a time. The kestrel doesn’t accept the inputs from the Binos when on the kestrel target card for my units. I also have errors or no reaction at all. The only way to get multiple target data is to select a different target from the main screen on the kestrel and then lase 1 by 1 while scrolling the kestrel …. Which is slow and convoluted, not why I paid for the Binos.

lonestar1845 · 2025-01-08T17:42:13-0500

Natestreo said:
I was under the impression that the internal compass of the Binos was capturing DOF when using standalone?

That's the way I thought they'd be too. My Fury's have that option, vortex calls it "wind capture". I went through the whole manual for the vectors and there's no mention of how to do anything other than the chicken dance and navigate menus. So it's trial and error figuring out how they actually work.

But if I put in a 90 degree wind, and lase at 0, 90, 180 and 270 degrees, it gives me all right wind holds.

Natestreo · 2025-01-08T17:46:17-0500

lonestar1845 said:
That's the way I thought they'd be too. My Fury's have that option, vortex calls it "wind capture". I went through the whole manual for the vectors and there's no mention of how to do anything other than the chicken dance and navigate menus. So it's trial and error figuring out how they actually work.

But if I put in a 90 degree wind, and lase at 0, 90, 180 and 270 degrees, it gives me all right wind holds.

Correct. There is prior discussion in this thread and others identifying that Vortex captures DOF in a different manner. I believe it was even mentioned that vortex was protecting their method of doing so.

The internal compass of the vector X should be measuring DOF

I share the frustration with the limited, read zero, instruction on functionality for a lot of this device. Can’t clearly identify how functionality currently works or will work in the future. It’s all dogging through forum posts or YouTube videos.

lonestar1845 · 2025-01-08T17:56:52-0500

There could be a patent thing going on, but kestrel had wind capture first. I guess it could be something with it just being in binoculars.

The internal compass is definitely measuring DOF, but I think the problem is when on standalone, the wind direction is oriented off of the target direction and not North. Basically like using a wind rose if that makes any sense.

The wind direction needs to go off of North, even if we need to manually enter it, in order for the DOF azimuth to calculate a wind hold.

lonestar1845 · 2025-01-08T19:06:11-0500

I just went out back and tested how the kestrel, Garmin 901 and vectors all worked together. With all 3 connected the Garmin is the hub, it uses the kestrel in PC/Mobile mode so it doesn't try to connect to the vectors. The kestrel feeds the 901 with atmospherics and wind direction and the vectors give range, DOF and inclination. I always had a problem with target card on the 901 with the fury's. It works perfectly with the vectors. Quick and easy to fill a target card and then the info is all on your wrist.

The 901 has the option to use true wind direction or relative to DOF, which is an option the Vectors should have on their own but do not. Anyway, this allows you to use the garmin without a kestrel. You manually choose a wind direction and speed and the vectors will feed it the DOF from their compass, giving an accurate wind call.

As far as I can tell, if you're using the vectors standalone, there's no reason to worry about calibration because the wind direction is relative to DOF and not true wind direction.

As far as the target card on the vectors, if standalone there's no way to change the wind while in target card, so if you have a large span of targets, you won't get good wind data. If connected to kestrel, it should work but apparently there's a glitch in the vectors software at the moment.

Natestreo · 2025-01-08T19:30:02-0500

lonestar1845 said:
I just went out back and tested how the kestrel, Garmin 901 and vectors all worked together. With all 3 connected the Garmin is the hub, it uses the kestrel in PC/Mobile mode so it doesn't try to connect to the vectors. The kestrel feeds the 901 with atmospherics and wind direction and the vectors give range, DOF and inclination. I always had a problem with target card on the 901 with the fury's. It works perfectly with the vectors. Quick and easy to fill a target card and then the info is all on your wrist.

The 901 has the option to use true wind direction or relative to DOF, which is an option the Vectors should have on their own but do not. Anyway, this allows you to use the garmin without a kestrel. You manually choose a wind direction and speed and the vectors will feed it the DOF from their compass, giving an accurate wind call.

As far as I can tell, if you're using the vectors standalone, there's no reason to worry about calibration because the wind direction is relative to DOF and not true wind direction.

As far as the target card on the vectors, if standalone there's no way to change the wind while in target card, so if you have a large span of targets, you won't get good wind data. If connected to kestrel, it should work but apparently there's a glitch in the vectors software at the moment.

Appreciate the follow up here. The 901 would already be in my hands if I could set more than 1 target card at a time, similar to Kestrel Sectors.

I'm staring at the Vector X's now and thinking I may sell them .... the Kestrel and App just work intuitively for me to setup a sector ahead of a match and then deliver updated environmental data to the given stage/sector that was pre-input. The Vector X's are really only acting as a spotting device for me. Could probably just sell them and get something that doesn't have AB and LRF function to pocket some cash and invest elsewhere...

lonestar1845 · 2025-01-08T19:55:12-0500

Natestreo said:
Appreciate the follow up here. The 901 would already be in my hands if I could set more than 1 target card at a time, similar to Kestrel Sectors.

I'm staring at the Vector X's now and thinking I may sell them .... the Kestrel and App just work intuitively for me to setup a sector ahead of a match and then deliver updated environmental data to the given stage/sector that was pre-input. The Vector X's are really only acting as a spotting device for me. Could probably just sell them and get something that doesn't have AB and LRF function to pocket some cash and invest elsewhere...

I can see that. Especially a 2 day match where you can load the match book into your kestrel the night before. The vectors are really only good as a spotter and confirming range to the targets. I still use my leupold mk4 more than the vectors for PRS. At least until my range enhancers show up.

I got the Vectors mostly for hunting and NRL/Sniper competitions where you have to figure out the course of fire on the spot. The Vector and 901 combination are perfect for that and the solution I was looking for after trying just about everything else.

I think Vectronix will fix their glitch with target card and the kestrel, and let's hope they can get wind relative to true wind direction for the guys that want to run these standalone. Which is what I'd like to do in a hunting situation, and if you're on anything other than a flat range, the target card function is useless without another device.

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