Is 2025 Year of the MPVO? Two New 2-12s!

beetroot · Jan 11, 2025

Barely two weeks into the year we already have to new MPVOs:
-Primary Arms SLX 2-12x40
-Element Helix Compact 2-12x42: https://element-optics.com/product/helix-hd-compact-2-12x42/

Just a shame both are SFP with capped turrets, the Element even being MOA only....
Maybe 2026 will be the year MPVOs return to glory.

VandelayIndustries · Jan 11, 2025

You had me excited, then I read the SFP bit. It’s mind boggling how all these companies just keep fucking this up.

stanley_white · Jan 11, 2025

While I do not own it yet, I submit the Maven RS1.2 - 2.5-15X44 FFP with the SHR-MIL reticle has a ton of potential.

I have become more confident of this lately as when I asked, Maven advised me that with this reticle the center dot is .1 mil thick; every hash mark is .04mil thickness; the inner reticle (thinner) is .1mil; and the outer (thicker reticle) is .4mil.

This is essentially the 2.0 version of Leupold's .1 MRAD thick Illuminated TMR.

As such, I suspect this scope is VERY usable as a duplex at 2.5x; the hash marks are usable prone / static unlimited time / low stress at 7x; and the hash marks are usable positionally / timed / high stress at 9x.

-Stan

cc: @C_Does

white_rushin · Jan 11, 2025

H6xi still owns the market, those two options might work for hunters but not for the gas gunner demographic

beetroot · Jan 11, 2025

white_rushin said:
H6xi still owns the market, those two options might work for hunters but not for the gas gunner demographic

Maybe, seems like the Athlon Helos is just as popular, if not more.

st1650 · Jan 11, 2025

Swing and a miss again.

I’ll stick with the Helos 2-12 although I’d like a compact 3-18 for a 22ARC Dasher eventually.

Mj1995 · Jan 11, 2025

I wish vortex was still making the 3-18 razor. I didn't own one but always though it would be great for a small 6mm or a 22 cal.

Mcgivro · Sunday at 12:50 AM

MPVO…You mean scope?

waveslayer · Sunday at 8:08 AM

Mcgivro said:
MPVO…You mean scope?

Medium powered variable optic, verses a LPVO...

Mike Casselton · Sunday at 9:59 AM

HPVO = High Powered Variable Optic (could also be Human Papaloma Virus Optic)

RHPVO = Ridiculously High Powered Variable Optic.

USAROHPO = Unbelievably Stupid And Ridiculous, Overly High Powered Optic

Soon to appear, the Hubble

Glassaholic · Sunday at 10:11 AM

beetroot said:
Barely two weeks into the year we already have to new MPVOs:
-Primary Arms SLX 2-12x40
-Element Helix Compact 2-12x42: https://element-optics.com/product/helix-hd-compact-2-12x42/

Just a shame both are SFP with capped turrets, the Element even being MOA only....
Maybe 2026 will be the year MPVOs return to glory.

You lost me at SFP...

These are not the droids we were looking for

Glassaholic · Sunday at 10:31 AM

stanley_white said:
While I do not own it yet, I submit the Maven RS1.2 - 2.5-15X44 FFP with the SHR-MIL reticle has a ton of potential.

I have become more confident of this lately as when I asked, Maven advised me that with this reticle the center dot is .1 mil thick; every hash mark is .04mil thickness; the inner reticle (thinner) is .1mil; and the outer (thicker reticle) is .4mil.

This is essentially the 2.0 version of Leupold's .1 MRAD thick Illuminated TMR.

As such, I suspect this scope is VERY usable as a duplex at 2.5x; the hash marks are usable prone / static unlimited time / low stress at 7x; and the hash marks are usable positionally / timed / high stress at 9x.

-Stan

cc: @C_Does

I think the Maven has more potential as a crossover scope than an MPVO. One of the criteria for an MPVO is that it be shorter in length and the RS 1.2 2.5-15 is quite long at 14". Also, the FOV is pretty narrow and some have said the Maven tunnels, compare these numbers to the Vortex PST II 3-15x44. I do like the SHR-MIL reticle, but did they really leave numbers off the left side of the horizontal... strange decision.

Kickin45 · Sunday at 10:40 AM

I still think the USO T12 is the tits. I just wish they’d add illuminated center dot.

Glassaholic · Sunday at 10:55 AM

Kickin45 said:
I still think the USO T12 is the tits. I just wish they’d add illuminated center dot.

Very short and light, but very narrow FOV has me concerned... GPO just came out with some super short designs as well, I wonder if they come off the same line?

Kickin45 · Sunday at 11:04 AM

@Glassaholic Thats a distinct possibility. Lots of similarities.
The ts12 definitely has its limitations, as any ultra short scope does. But none of that has altered a single shot from my 18” AR 308 out to 600yrds.
It’s not ideal as you mention, but for the moment, without being able to do side by side testing, it tics my boxes. What’s interesting about the TS-12 is, at this time it’s an old design and no one to this point in my opinion, has been able to just completely wipe the floor with it.

Glassaholic · Sunday at 11:31 AM

Kickin45 said:
@Glassaholic Thats a distinct possibility. Lots of similarities.
The ts12 definitely has its limitations, as any ultra short scope does. But none of that has altered a single shot from my 18” AR 308 out to 600yrds.
It’s not ideal as you mention, but for the moment, without being able to do side by side testing, it tics my boxes. What’s interesting about the TS-12 is, at this time it’s an old design and no one to this point in my opinion, has been able to just completely wipe the floor with it.

That's what matters most, that you're able to accomplish how you intend to use the rifle!

mattc51 · Monday at 11:44 AM

Really no reason for FFP in the Element. Only 2 drop down hashes doesn't give you a lot to choose from when zooming at different powers on FFP.

gr8fuldoug · Monday at 12:37 PM

st1650 said:
Swing and a miss again.

I’ll stick with the Helos 2-12 although I’d like a compact 3-18 for a 22ARC Dasher eventually.

GPO CENTURI 3-12x44i Super Compact G4i #RC420

Super Compact Technology at 9.9" long
SFP Capped ¼ MOA reset turrets
G4i illuminated I-Control reticle
GPObright lens coating technology
PASSIONdrop hydrophobic lens coatings
DOUBLE HD objective lens technology
Magnification throw lever

C_Does · Monday at 10:07 PM

stanley_white said:
While I do not own it yet, I submit the Maven RS1.2 - 2.5-15X44 FFP with the SHR-MIL reticle has a ton of potential.

I have become more confident of this lately as when I asked, Maven advised me that with this reticle the center dot is .1 mil thick; every hash mark is .04mil thickness; the inner reticle (thinner) is .1mil; and the outer (thicker reticle) is .4mil.

This is essentially the 2.0 version of Leupold's .1 MRAD thick Illuminated TMR.

As such, I suspect this scope is VERY usable as a duplex at 2.5x; the hash marks are usable prone / static unlimited time / low stress at 7x; and the hash marks are usable positionally / timed / high stress at 9x.

-Stan

cc: @C_Does

Howwwdyyyy. There is a gentleman here with one who has offered it to me to review. But Maven finally got back to me last week about sending me one to test out. Of course I went for the MIL's, and I also opted for the add on package so I can play with the rings and caps.

It is on the longer and heavier side, but I am not a stickler for length as long as it clears everything else on the rifle. I much more care about optical performance and tracking performance over some of the physical properties. But everyone is different, and some people like things that others dont. Simple as that.

The RS1.2 as a whole looks extremely promising. All it could really use is a locking elevation turret. If thats a deal breaker then check out the Tract Toric 2.5-15. On paper that and the RS look very similar. I would even hazard a guess that they share some DNA.

BJames · Monday at 11:09 PM

st1650 said:
Swing and a miss again.

I’ll stick with the Helos 2-12 although I’d like a compact 3-18 for a 22ARC Dasher eventually.

How does the helos track? It’s on my short list for a shorty 6.5 Grendel build in the works.

st1650 · Tuesday at 12:00 AM

BJames said:
How does the helos track? It’s on my short list for a shorty 6.5 Grendel build in the works.

They track really well in my case. I’ve tested it to 20mils multiple times on my subsonic 300blk. Tracks true and return to zero fine. That said, apparently on rokslide the dude who does the drop test says the zero shifts on impacts. You’d have to ask him is his last one still does it, he hasn’t updated his post. I haven’t seen any one complain about those but I doubt most people run their gear as hard as he does. He did say the triji Tenmile 3-18 had no issues with the drop test so I’m tempted to try one if I find one at the right price, I’m usually not a Trijicon fan except for the Acog and the Sro.

Athlon Helos BTR Gen2, 2-12x42mm Field Eval

This is a field evaluation of the Athlon Helos BTR Gen 2, 2-12x42mm scope. This scope was handed to me from from Ryan Avery for evaluation. It was sent to him from a forum member. The ammunition used was Hornady Black 168gr AMAX that was purchased by Ryan. The 20 round proof group was just over...

rokslide.com

stanley_white · Tuesday at 5:38 AM

C_Does said:
Howwwdyyyy. There is a gentleman here with one who has offered it to me to review. But Maven finally got back to me last week about sending me one to test out. Of course I went for the MIL's, and I also opted for the add on package so I can play with the rings and caps.

It is on the longer and heavier side, but I am not a stickler for length as long as it clears everything else on the rifle. I much more care about optical performance and tracking performance over some of the physical properties. But everyone is different, and some people like things that others dont. Simple as that.

The RS1.2 as a whole looks extremely promising. All it could really use is a locking elevation turret. If thats a deal breaker then check out the Tract Toric 2.5-15. On paper that and the RS look very similar. I would even hazard a guess that they share some DNA.

Great news!

I am very interested to see the reticle at 2.5x against a woodland background if are able to do so.

-Stan

Tikkaguy · Wednesday at 6:56 AM

C_Does said:
Howwwdyyyy. There is a gentleman here with one who has offered it to me to review. But Maven finally got back to me last week about sending me one to test out. Of course I went for the MIL's, and I also opted for the add on package so I can play with the rings and caps.

It is on the longer and heavier side, but I am not a stickler for length as long as it clears everything else on the rifle. I much more care about optical performance and tracking performance over some of the physical properties. But everyone is different, and some people like things that others dont. Simple as that.

The RS1.2 as a whole looks extremely promising. All it could really use is a locking elevation turret. If thats a deal breaker then check out the Tract Toric 2.5-15. On paper that and the RS look very similar. I would even hazard a guess that they share some DNA.

I have the tract 2.5-15, I belive they are basically the same scope. It’s a nice little scope, it was on a spr type 556 but it ended up being a little long so I put it on a 22 build instead. Great glass, build quality and eye box. Just a little small in the image department for what I needed on a spr. Doesn’t weigh too much either. Reticle is nice and clean and at 2.5 there is no problem finding the ret. 20 mils on a 40 moa base for my 22 lr. Could use a little more travel but it’s a 30mm tube after all.

Tikkaguy · Wednesday at 8:19 AM

Mj1995 said:
I wish vortex was still making the 3-18 razor. I didn't own one but always though it would be great for a small 6mm or a 22 cal.

The weight makes it near useless on any rig that’s mobile. Same as any non lvpo razor

Glassaholic · Wednesday at 11:08 AM

Tikkaguy said:
The weight makes it near useless on any rig that’s mobile. Same as any non lvpo razor

I agree, the biggest issue with the RG2 3-18 was not the glass (as even today it is pretty amazing), but the weight was more than anyone wanted for either a gas gun or crossover platform. This is most likely why Vortex has not yet introduced an RG3 version of this scope which is unfortunate. Would love to see an RG3 3-18x50 that is around the 30oz mark, I know a lot would want less weight but that's not really the RG3 line so something competitive with the ATACR 4-16 is within reason. What would be even better is a new AMG somewhere around 3-18 that was under 30oz... been waiting for that scope for about a decade (when the AMG 6-24 was announced I really hoped a mid-power optic would follow as I felt 6x at the bottom was a wee bit too much for crossover use even for western hunters, but that didn't stop me from putting it on my 7mm SAUM rig for elk and long range steel).

Tikkaguy · Wednesday at 11:13 AM

Glassaholic said:
I agree, the biggest issue with the RG2 3-18 was not the glass (as even today it is pretty amazing), but the weight was more than anyone wanted for either a gas gun or crossover platform. This is most likely why Vortex has not yet introduced an RG3 version of this scope which is unfortunate. Would love to see an RG3 3-18x50 that is around the 30oz mark, I know a lot would want less weight but that's not really the RG3 line so something competitive with the ATACR 4-16 is within reason. What would be even better is a new AMG somewhere around 3-18 that was under 30oz... been waiting for that scope for about a decade (when the AMG 6-24 was announced I really hoped a mid-power optic would follow as I felt 6x at the bottom was a wee bit too much for crossover use even for western hunters, but that didn't stop me from putting it on my 7mm SAUM rig for elk and long range steel).

Yeah I agree 100% the razors are good scopes but the weight is a no go for all of them for me personally . And the lht version isn’t very attractive to me either. I feel like they made the razor line heavy on purpose for prs type comps. The Germans manage to build scope in that quality bracket in a sensible weight most of the time! Come on vortex!

C_Does · Thursday at 8:44 PM

Tikkaguy said:
I have the tract 2.5-15, I belive they are basically the same scope. It’s a nice little scope, it was on a spr type 556 but it ended up being a little long so I put it on a 22 build instead. Great glass, build quality and eye box. Just a little small in the image department for what I needed on a spr. Doesn’t weigh too much either. Reticle is nice and clean and at 2.5 there is no problem finding the ret. 20 mils on a 40 moa base for my 22 lr. Could use a little more travel but it’s a 30mm tube after all.

That sounds just like the maven rs1.2 I just got. My limited experience with is is mostly positive. The fov and view through it seem to be on the tighter side but boy does the glass look stellar.

Tikkaguy · Thursday at 8:52 PM

C_Does said:
That sounds just like the maven rs1.2 I just got. My limited experience with is is mostly positive. The fov and view through it seem to be on the tighter side but boy does the glass look stellar.

Yeah it’s an impressive scope, would make a great crossover scope for a lighter bolt action. They seemed to really do about everything right. For the price it’s really doesn’t get enough attention

wvfarrier · 2025-01-17T05:53:41-0500

I believe trijicon is releasing a compact 3-9 optic this year. IIRC is about the size of an lvpo

Macht · 2025-01-17T06:10:58-0500

wvfarrier said:
I believe trijicon is releasing a compact 3-9 optic this year. IIRC is about the size of an lvpo

Pretty sure you mean Eotech. Or maybe they're both launching one.

Tikkaguy · 2025-01-17T12:33:00-0500

I’m more interested in the primary arms plx 2.5-20x48, no new yet but supposed to be comming out soonish. See if it would be a better fit than the nx8

wvfarrier · 2025-01-17T12:57:23-0500

Macht said:
Pretty sure you mean Eotech. Or maybe they're both launching one.

Yer right it was eotech, my bad

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