2025 SHOT Show Optics

Mini thermal optic. $699.00


Maybe a auxiliary yote spotter for a day optic and a light
 
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You know, it's funny that many of us on here rib on MOA scopes, but we measure how our rifles perform in MOA lol... You will hear/read where we refer to targets and being a .2 or a .4mil target ect, but when have you ever heard someone refer to their rifle as shooting a .3mil group?

Neither here nor there, just kind of funny. Even in our mil world, some things will remain MOA.
I always thought this was amusing as well, glad I'm not the only one! I really think humans just crave tribalism so we create it wherever we can and pretend like there's some intrinsic value in it. I've yet to have someone that swears by MIL's power of ten explain how they've actually used it in any sort of practical way. "Oh it's not a metric system thing" but it only really helps with other base-10 systems which are metric. Nobody is measuring 1/1000th of a yard.
 
I always thought this was amusing as well, glad I'm not the only one! I really think humans just crave tribalism so we create it wherever we can and pretend like there's some intrinsic value in it. I've yet to have someone that swears by MIL's power of ten explain how they've actually used it in any sort of practical way. "Oh it's not a metric system thing" but it only really helps with other base-10 systems which are metric. Nobody is measuring 1/1000th of a yard.
1 mrad is one yard at 1000 yards. I use that all the time.

Mrad works seamlessly with any units as long as you use turf sage units for distance and target size.

Ilya
 
1 mrad is one yard at 1000 yards. I use that all the time.
Me too, 18" at 500 yards as well, great for quick ranging math, here's a good chart as it relates to brisket to back...

UltimateMilDotBigGameNorthAmerica.jpg
 
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Am I the only one who doesn’t understand why anyone would care about a 2-10 MPVO?

To me it’s like: if you’re only going to go up to 10x, just make us a more better/nicer 1-10 LPVO then… because if I’m going to have to run a dot too anyways, I might as well pony up for the 4-20x and live with an extra few ounces for my near $4K.

And those reticles… :rolleyes: 🤢 🤮

C’mon ZCO… SMH 🤦‍♂️
 
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How about 36" or divisions of 36", like 18" or 6', can you think of anything that might translate?
I'm not saying the math is impossible just that it isn't as intuitive as the MIL loyalists would have you believe, especially when dealing with targets of an unknown size at unknown distances. When you're using a range finder and ballistic calculator the units become irrelevant
 
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Am I the only one who doesn’t understand why anyone would care about a 2-10 MPVO?

To me it’s like: if you’re only going to go up to 10x, just make us a more better/nicer 1-10 LPVO then… because if I’m going to have to run a dot too anyways, I might as well pony up for the 4-20x and live with an extra few ounces for my near $4K.

And those reticles… :rolleyes: 🤢 🤮

C’mon ZCO… SMH 🤦‍♂️
Probably because 10x erector scopes are riddled with compromise
 
I always thought this was amusing as well, glad I'm not the only one! I really think humans just crave tribalism so we create it wherever we can and pretend like there's some intrinsic value in it. I've yet to have someone that swears by MIL's power of ten explain how they've actually used it in any sort of practical way. "Oh it's not a metric system thing" but it only really helps with other base-10 systems which are metric. Nobody is measuring 1/1000th of a yard.

Okay…

Please explain to me how I can make gun number (for wind calls) or speed drop work with an MOA reticle.
 
I didn't say MIL doesn't have any benefits or applications, did I? Don't take it personal.

Not taking anything personally, and didn't mean to be snarky. You just said this: "I've yet to have someone that swears by MIL's power of ten explain how they've actually used it in any sort of practical way."

And I so I thought it worthwhile to point out a way that MRAD has a practical advantage over MOA. If you're already aware of the things I mentioned, cool.
 
Not taking anything personally, and didn't mean to be snarky. You just said this: "I've yet to have someone that swears by MIL's power of ten explain how they've actually used it in any sort of practical way."

And I so I thought it worthwhile to point out a way that MRAD has a practical advantage over MOA. If you're already aware of the things I mentioned, cool.
Gotcha, I've actually been looking into it since your reply because I wasn't aware of those things. So thanks for teaching me something new. It's always a good day on the internet when you learn something.
 
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Probably because 10x erector scopes are riddled with compromise

2-10 is only a 5x erector though

Thus proving @HaydenLane ’s point 👍🏻

I get it, and agreed that the 10x erector isn’t ideal.

I just think, using a 5x erector scope as an example, if I’m going to have to run a dot and an MPVO, why not just do a 3-15x (or 4-20x)..?

I know 10x is enough mag for most intended use cases with a 1-10 LPVO (or 2-10) being for PID more so than taking longer shots.

But, personally, if I’m going to have to run 2 sights anyways, I’d rather have more mag on the top end and the ability to park the MPVO somewhere in the middle sweet spot most of the time (where most scopes perform best anyways) and have more capability for longer shots if need be.

YMMV/JMHO
 
But, personally, if I’m going to have to run 2 sights anyways, I’d rather have more mag on the top end and the ability to park the MPVO somewhere in the middle sweet spot most of the time (where most scopes perform best anyways) and have more capability for longer shots if need be.
I would guess that a 2-10 makes it an easier sell to guys running clip-ons and such, but that’s not me. I personally have a 3-12 with a piggyback on my only scoped gas gun.

My only problem with 2-10 is that it isn’t 2-12. We know you can get an excellent and forgiving scope at a reasonable price in a 6x erector.
 
I would guess that a 2-10 makes it an easier sell to guys running clip-ons and such, but that’s not me. I personally have a 3-12 with a piggyback on my only scoped gas gun.

My only problem with 2-10 is that it isn’t 2-12. We know you can get an excellent and forgiving scope at a reasonable price in a 6x erector.
Aren't alot (if not all) of those recen 2-10 .mil contract scopes? Did any one ever have any light on what the design brief was of the contract?
 
I don't understand what's causing you to take more time to set the diopter with the fast focus eyepieces compared to others. You can tell right away where the prior user left the diopter setting and you can move it in one second. If it's your scope, you can then lock it in place by tightening up the lock ring, easy peasy.

The tracking scope is an interesting design and I will have more to say about it over time. Currently, it's a concept design and in my opinion (for what that's worth), it has a lot of potential. We shall see.

I was there all week, and my name was on my white vest, the same name as here, Denys. I spoke with a lot of people and it's all a blur now.
It is not the optics fault, nor is it the mechanical/functional speed I am speaking of. Specifically with the DFP scopes from March, given the DFP design, the high erector ratio and short scope body, there is a pickiness in the initial set up that I don't find in other optics. The DOF/Side Focus/Parallax is very sensitive to magnification changes and it always requires quite a bit of dialing in/out to get the sight picture I am looking for.

I've gone around the world over the past few years with scopes and I keep coming back to mid-mag, mid-length scopes with 4-5x erectors that are just overall extremely forgiving in their sight picture. I find that all the other stuff is great if I am sitting still and have all the time in the world, but the compromises they make when I myself, or something I am trying hit/kill is on the move, those compromises can be down right detrimental. It's just a personal use case thing.
 
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Nothing against Matt, he's freaking awesome, and is just trying to help folks who insist on sticking with MOA (or who are stuck with it for some reason beyond their control), but that method doesn't seem nearly as intuitive to me as an MRAD based gun number.

This is because if you want to hold wind you're going to end up either counting "clicks" (hashmarks) in the reticle and ignoring the numbers denoting MOA, or having to divide your answer in "clicks" by 4 to convert it back to MOA.
 
I'm sure I'm not catching everything here, but these are the items that have been released or announced this month with my thoughts and comments based on what I've heard so far.

  • Schmidt & Bender FFP version of Meta 3-18x42 with FML-TR1 type reticle - this could prove to be a really nice option with PM II turrets and alternative to some of the smaller MPVO's, at 44.5' FOV at 3x for the SFP version if they keep the FFP close this might be an impressive alternative to the 2.5-20 scopes. At around 27oz this could shake some things up, but sounds like we need to wait until summer for this one.
  • ZCO 2-10x30 MPVO single turn turret with 12mrad up and 2mrad below zero. A very expensive MPVO but I also imagine along with the price tag comes the best optical performance we have seen yet for this range. Coupled with the new reticles that are the best FFP reticles I've seen to date for MPVO these could prove very promising!
  • Leupold new CMR-Mil reticle for 2-10x30. Okay, so it took Leupold 2 years to bring a usable MPVO reticle to market and I still think the reticle could use some improvements, apparently Leupold doesn't think anyone will be dialing this scope because wind holds are essentially non-existing on the main horizontal line, at least they could have given us dots if they didn't want to run the line through the horseshoe.
  • Primary Arms PLxC 2.5-20x48 - this could be pretty exciting. PA is known for punching above their class in terms of optical-mechanical performance and I expect this new 2.5-20 will impress, but the bigger question is the reticles, the Athena G2 and Neptune just seem way too busy which leaves the DEKA G2 which could be really nice especially if it works at 2.5x, but that's a big if.
  • Primary Arms PLxC 4.5-36x56 - while I am excited about the 2.5-20 not so much with this 4.5-36, similar to Kahles, why use 8x erector for competition oriented scope, with already strong competition from numerous outstanding 6-36x56 designs, I'm not sure what appeal of going down to 4.5x is? Maybe there is some hidden market I am not seeing?
  • Kahles K540i 5-40x56 Ultra Wide Angle eyepiece - after almost 20 years of their questionable patent, Swarovski finally takes advantage of the ultra wide angle eyepiece. However, why the 8x erector? The K328i wasn't the best option to start with, so more excitement over this one for sure. With this scope aimed at the competition community I just don't know many who've been asking for such a high erector, instead the community tends to prefer more forgiving designs. Did Kahles engineers figure out some kind of optical formula magic or will this scope struggle to be as forgiving as its counterparts at the price point? Would love to see this side by side with the ZCO 8-40x56, TT 7-35x56 and March Gen2 5-42x56... if I can source or fund some of these I may try to review these later this year.
  • Burris XTR PS 3.3-18x50mm and 5.5-30x56 - using their new HUD gives Revic a run for the money, looks like Burris may have even improved upon the knurling which was one of my biggest gripes in previous releases. The HUD looks very promising and the new clickless turret sounds interesting. Consider me impressed, I may look to review one at some point as I've always liked the idea of HUD where I don't have to break cheekweld for changes.
  • Leapers scopes from Taiwan. Price is pretty high. Not sure if the market is ready for Taiwanese scopes at this price point, but I imagine they are impressive for the price and may be worth looking into.
  • Meprolight scopes from Taiwan. Similar to above on Leapers, maybe same OEM?
  • Telson optics 5-32x56 Japanese mfr - starting to see more and more companies pop up with options, unless they are priced right not sure how many people will take a chance on them.
  • SAI 10 1-10x24 finally makes its debut, I've been talking about this one for a couple years now but have been told "no", well now it's reality and it's very short and very light, possibly the lightest 1-10 on the market. The SAI 6 is my favorite 1-6 LPVO so I have high hopes for this SAI 10 as long as ATI didn't cut too many corners to make it so short and so light.
  • Apex 1-10x24 LPVO assembled in USA - interesting that this Canadian company felt they needed to assemble in the USA, the decision was likely made before Trudeau decided to become a hermit and live out the rest of his exile in Saskatchewan.
  • US Optics X Line - yay, more scopes from China... (that was a joke by the way) come on USO, you used to be a dominant force in the high end scope world, let's get some new and innovative designs for your higher end series.
  • Meopta under new ownership (2023?), revamping product line, MeoForce DF is new tactical line, these could be really good.
  • Primary Arms HTX-1 enclosed RDS, completely made in USA even the glass! Lock deck height to co-witness with standard height irons. This could bring some serious competition to Trijicon and Aimpoint, but pricing the optic close to these major competitors who have already established a solid name for themselves along with military contracts may hinder sales a bit. But it is nice to see someone besides Vortex AMG going full MAGA!
  • Apex Vapor 1-4x22 Prismatic - clever design with built in multiplier, wonder if it would work with NODS?
  • Zerotech 1-4 prism (motorized zoom) what on earth?
  • EOTech compact SFP 3-9x with ACOG compatible mount but with strange MOA reticle - EOTech continues to show they don't understand the market, not sure this is a scope that a bunch of hunters have been asking for, I assume it's going to be pretty finicky but maybe my assumptions are wrong. I think EOTech could help this model with a mil/mil version and a reticle that works better for the gas gun crowd.
  • Hi-Lux has super short scopes in 3-12 and 4-16 - wonder if these are same OEM as GPO which also has super shorts in the same mag ranges... coincidence? Either way, I'm not sure yet where these super short designs fit in, I expect them to be pretty finicky and not have the greatest reticles for low mag use, but who knows, maybe we'll all be surprised.
Feel free to add your thoughts, comments or additions for any daytime optics I may have missed.
So......Apex *and* ZeroTech both release a 1-4x22 variable prism optic with the zoom mounted on the front? What are the odds? Did these guys share the R&D cost....and one is going the cheaper made-in-China route and the other made in USA / Japan?
 
So......Apex *and* ZeroTech both release a 1-4x22 variable prism optic with the zoom mounted on the front? What are the odds? Did these guys share the R&D cost....and one is going the cheaper made-in-China route and the other made in USA / Japan?
The zerotech has a motorized zoom so could be quite different. China is often copying other designs.
 
Seems like ATI is going to bring us the 1-10 shorty LVPO scope that out-Vortex's the Vortex AMG one.
Maybe that was ATI’s strategy after seeing the interest from the community with the unobtanium (mil only) AMG 1-10 shorty, they bring out their version. EO has been getting a few AMG’s they bundle with rifles so at least we have a few in the wild.
 
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Thanks for posting g all of the new stuff from Shot. Are we in the “Golden Age” of optics?? Kinda feels like it. So many good options from across the spectrum.
We've got one more generation of optics to come and that will be the Golden era. It's down hill after that. Think early 2000s Honda Gearbox vs what has come since, the removal of the synchronicity between man and machine.
 
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We've got one more generation of optics to come and that will be the Golden era. It's down hill after that. Think early 2000s Honda Gearbox vs what has come since, the removal of the synchronicity between man and machine.
I tend to agree, one more generation, but I bet after that generation comes, there will still be innovations beyond that which keeps us saying... "the next generation" 😝

When you're talking Honda gearbox are you talking cars or motorcycles (or lawnmowers :ROFLMAO:)?
 
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