Plane crash At Reagan National

The FAA said there was only 1 that was controlling both. There should have been one on the A/C tower freq and one on the Helo tower freq, but there was not, it was 1 person controlling both. Im not talking about combined ground and tower, I dont think they do that at DCA, but maybe after midnight occasionally when they stay open after curfew.
Yeah stipulated, one controller was working the Victor Tower position for DCA arrivals and also the Uniform Tower position for military traffic, which normally is a second position. As I said before, I'm completely supportive of fully staffed ATC but I also don't think it was causal or contributed to the accident chain. A second controller working the Uniform Tower position would have absolutely been better....I just don't know that it would have trapped the error of a helo identifying the wrong traffic to maintain visual separation from twice and being where they shouldn't have been laterally/vertically.

I've been wrong before...

Ground controllers are also in the tower cab, so that was part of our earlier cross-talk...we're on the same page.
 
besides being wrong, she is apparently retarded enough to believe a new hire would be directing flights already.

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But....sadly...we know at least 40% of our population is just as retarded. No concept of what SKILLED means. Same people could drive a Formula 1 or IMSA / LeMans Prototype because it has a brake and accelerator pedal, steering wheel and 4 wheel/tire combos.
 
maybe a little wake turbulence. CRJ doesnt put out to much wake though. And crossing 90 degrees(roughly) is much less crazy shit that following somebodies wake. I've had to offset at altitude following a heavy UPS MD11 2000ft above us.
Yes. Those horizontal tornadoes can last a while. Following is much worse than simply a pass overhead. Doing formation flight into OSH @ EAA following tight behind a Bonanza on landing got me dancing...
 
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maybe a little wake turbulence. CRJ doesnt put out to much wake though. And crossing 90 degrees(roughly) is much less crazy shit that following somebodies wake. I've had to offset at altitude following a heavy UPS MD11 2000ft above us.

Yeah, you think the wake is bad from a UPS MD11, just look at all the parts falling off that hunk of junk, the falling FOD could have done you much more damage than the wake. 😎
 
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Saw another angle with closer perspective. Don't know how this was not intentional.

 
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Saw another angle with closer perspective. Don't know how this was not intentional.

Tunnel vision under nods ?
 
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Saw a great video explanation earlier today, the Helo was at 300 feet in a max 200 foot altitude corridor. And the plane was told to change runways last minute so there were multiple failures which compounded in the result.
This caused them to cross flight paths and collide.

I will try to find the video.
 
Saw a great video explanation earlier today, the Helo was at 300 feet in a max 200 foot altitude corridor. And the plane was told to change runways last minute so there were multiple failures which compounded in the result.
This caused them to cross flight paths and collide.

I will try to find the video.
the weird part is the helo was at 200' most of the time, but increased altitude to 300' or more as it approached the flight path of the crj.

 
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the weird part is the helo was at 200' most of the time, but increased altitude to 300' or more as it approached the flight path of the crj.

100' climb is nothing in a h-60. At 600fpm it's a 10 sec distraction ... especially if they were focused on the wrong airplane, with background city lighting and over water, very easy to get in a black hole illusion. If they were looking outside, they might not have been scanning their instruments.
 
It'll come out soon enough ... could be a case of Coulter's law
Yes, the actual quote was
“At the request of the family, the name of the third soldier will not be released at this time. That pilot is also DUSTWUN,” the Army said in a statement in a reference to “duty status-whereabouts unknown,” a temporary designation until her remains are recovered from the river where the aircraft went down.

It will be released.

The typical NTSB investigation takes 1-2 years. Obviously this one will be fast tracked, but don't expect any results short term...
 
Yes, the actual quote was
“At the request of the family, the name of the third soldier will not be released at this time. That pilot is also DUSTWUN,” the Army said in a statement in a reference to “duty status-whereabouts unknown,” a temporary designation until her remains are recovered from the river where the aircraft went down.

It will be released.

The typical NTSB investigation takes 1-2 years. Obviously this one will be fast tracked, but don't expect any results short term...
I'm sure it'll get leaked out well before the NTSB prelim report ...
 
Ok, every flight is a training flight in the Blackhawk. They don’t just fly “missions “ all the time. They have monthly flight hour requirements, as well as semi annual and annual, and certain part of those hours are required to be under NVG’s. And that doesn’t even account for check rides or APART rides. As far as why are they flying into Reagan, because it’s an airport and that’s what blackhawks do… they fly to airports.

As far as how something like this could happen, there’s are a lot of factors that go into a NVG mishap like this. What Gen NVG’s were they utilizing? The newer phosphorus NVG’s are damn bright unless you’re operating under 0 illum. That’s why a bunch of the crews actually prefer the older green tubes vs the phosphorus. When you’re flying at that altitude, it is easy to mistake headlights or other flashing beacons/ lights for aircraft, especially in a highly lit up situation near a major city/ airport, that’s why you constantly have to fly NVG’s to maintain profiency, it’s a perishable trait. There’s also lots of emergency procedures you practice during “training” flights and different landing types. It’s not like the only time you respond to an emergency, is when you’re in an actual emergency. It’s easy to lose track of another aircraft under a sea of bright lights.

I’m curious if the pilots mistook the aircraft taking off as the one that ATC was referring to pass behind. Following the blackhawks flight path, it didn’t appear as they tried any evasive actions, which lends me to question having actually had eyes on the incoming aircraft. Or, there was like 3 aircraft in a row coming in to land and maybe they didn’t see the first one and thought one of the other ones was the one ATC was referring to. The fact they were flying at above 300’ in a corridor where the max altitude was 200’. Is definitely crew error in regard to the crash. I also question the crew coordination in the Blackhawk, as all 3 of the crew members should have acknowledged the incoming aircraft and confirmed it with one another. The black box will shed more light on what they saw and were saying while everything was going on. I also almost question whether or not the PC might have been inside the aircraft doing radio calls and other stuff like monitoring the instruments while ATC was making all the calls. I know quite often, the crew will minimize communication when there’s heavy radio chatter. Seeing as they were pretty much flying straight towards one another, the crew chief in the back probably offered little airspace surveillance to the front and was most likely scanning from the about 1 o’clock to the 6, if the crew chief was on the right, and would be partially obscured from potentially seeing the aircraft coming straight at them. We’ve always been trained to keep our heads on a swivel when we’re flying on the Hudson down by LaGuardia and JFK simply due to, the sheer volume of traffic that’s around.

Without hearing more than 30 seconds of the ATC tower, kind of hard to really know what conversations were going on between the 60 and the tower, and because the 60 was replying on a different frequency to tower, just makes it that much harder. As in 90+% of all aviation accidents, I think we’re definitely going to find out this unfortunate accident, was at a minimum pilot error, and potentially ATC error as I would have thought there would have been more urgency in the controllers voice seeing on radar they were on a collision course. Once again, just a different perspective and it’s all speculation, because I wasn’t there. Luckily though, in due time, I will unfortunately have to listen to the last minutes of the Ill fated flight and will have a better a clearer understanding of what the crew of the 60 actually heard, saw, and said. Such a tragedy, regardless.
I came to all the same conclusions. Good dissection. More details pending. 100 ft over the designated ceiling is a serious issue.
 
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I came to all the same conclusions. Good dissection. More details pending. 100 ft over the designated ceiling is a serious issue.
Especially in that confined area space, when you have a hard deck of 200’ and you almost double that, and you’re allegedly 1/8 of a mile off your traffic route, especially considering the route shows your supposed to be flying the edge of the river, that’s a lot of misses. But then again, depending on your familiarization of the route, complacency could also be a huge factor…. Your do the same thing over and over again and it’s just the same old same old…. Until it’s not, complacency kills, sad thing is, there’s no rest stops or aprons you just pull off to when you’re flying in the air, you may not always be able to go up, but you will ALWAYS come back down.
 
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Yes, the actual quote was
“At the request of the family, the name of the third soldier will not be released at this time. That pilot is also DUSTWUN,” the Army said in a statement in a reference to “duty status-whereabouts unknown,” a temporary designation until her remains are recovered from the river where the aircraft went down.

It will be released.

The typical NTSB investigation takes 1-2 years. Obviously this one will be fast tracked, but don't expect any results short term...
The crash at the border almost a year ago with the uh72 lakoda, didn’t take that long…. Those results were out relatively quick in the grand scheme of things, maybe it’s just because it was a military crash, but I know of a bunch of them that when involved with army aviation, have come out in less time than that.

Another interesting fact, 2024 was the most costly year in Army Aviation since 2014, regarding mishaps.
 
I'm sure it'll get leaked out well before the NTSB prelim report ...
I'm sure there will be multiple "leaks" from multiple sources and likely not a F'ing one of them will be accurate.
Just like most of what has been linked and reported on so far that has proven to be total bullshit.

POS network news and media sites are so hungry to get clicks and be the first to say they have info, they will saturate the damned airwaves with BREAKING NEWS!

Combine this with 90% of the consumers (including a bunch on this forum) just itching to run with conspiracies and you get the perfect storm. . . . . being distracted from shit that really matters that is totally unrelated.
 
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Especially in that confined area space, when you have a hard deck of 200’ and you almost double that, and you’re allegedly 1/8 of a mile off your traffic route, especially considering the route shows your supposed to be flying the edge of the river, that’s a lot of misses. But then again, depending on your familiarization of the route, complacency could also be a huge factor…. Your do the same thing over and over again and it’s just the same old same old…. Until it’s not, complacency kills, sad thing is, there’s no rest stops or aprons you just pull off to when you’re flying in the air, you may not always be able to go up, but you will ALWAYS come back down.
could that be because of the course change to the right? why change heading if you're on course...and then climb (accidentally)?
terrible fuck-up if that was all it was.
 
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could that be because of the course change to the right? why change heading if you're on course...and then climb (accidentally)?
terrible fuck-up if that was all it was.
I have a question but I don't have the expertise to know if it has any value.

I had heard early on the the BH was on a standard continuity of government training mission and that much of their route was flown down the river. Right or wrong, I heard that one of more of the bridges on the Potomac are waypoints on that planned flight path.

Am I stupid for thinking that the bird would have to climb, at least momentarily to clear each bridge span/structure as they transited the route? I'm just thinking that </= 200' off the deck would not leave any margin to clear a good size bridge structure.

Where am I making a wrong assumption?

*edited cause I kant speal
 
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I have a question but I don't have the expertise to know if it has any value.

I had heard early on the the BH was on a standard continuation of government training mission and that much of their route was flown down the river. Right or wrong, I heard that one of more of the bridges on the Potomac are waypoints on that planned flight path.

Am I stupid for thinking that the bird would have to climb, at least momentarily to clear each bridge span/structure as they transited the route? I'm just thinking that </= 200' off the deck would not leave any margin to clear a good size bridge structure.

Where am I making a wrong assumption?
there are sections of "route 1" where maximum altitude is 300', presumably near bridges or other structures. i believe he talks about it here,

 
don't know why...it just fuels the conspiracy theory crowd :p

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Agree. I was just about to paste this link when I saw yours.


To me, it sounds VERY suspect as they've obviously contacted family by now; so why hide it? It does get the mind going on the possibilities. Combine that with the supposed "return to post" message (I've not seen that validated though). We've been lied to so much in the past, hard to believe a damn thing coming out of 1) The Press, 2) The Government.
 
Agree. I was just about to paste this link when I saw yours.


To me, it sounds VERY suspect as they've obviously contacted family by now; so why hide it? It does get the mind going on the possibilities. Combine that with the supposed "return to post" message (I've not seen that validated though).
honestly, if a family member flew a blackhawk into a commercial flight, i would likely want to keep it on the dl.
 
there are sections of "route 1" where maximum altitude is 300', presumably near bridges or other structures. i believe he talks about it here,


I'm tracking.
I actually linked that vid in another post somewhere on here. I think the air nerd does a fantastic job of collecting and deciphering the known facts so far.

I did watch the vid but couldn't remember if he specifically addressed the possibility of encroaching into slightly higher elevations to clear the bridges.

Thanks for the reply.
 
I'm tracking.
I actually linked that vid in another post somewhere on here. I think the air nerd does a fantastic job of collecting and deciphering the known facts so far.

I did watch the vid but couldn't remember if he specifically addressed the possibility of encroaching into slightly higher elevations to clear the bridges.

Thanks for the reply.
it was posted by @TicTacTex (i stole it from him) and @91Eunozs in this one and i think it is one of the better ones i have seen.
 
I spent my first 2 years in the Army in MDW after OSUT at Fort Benning.

We used to regularly stage on LZs at Fort Myer for Air Assault missions right near Arlington National Cemetery and fly down to Fort A.P. Hill. We used that VIP Aviation unit from the area, who had mostly UH-1s at the time and might have just been getting UH-60s.

They’ve been safely flying all around the DC area and surrounding States of MD and VA for generations.

Pics of flying in UH-1H model if I recall correctly. Visibility was far superior for passengers than UH-60s.

This is looking East over the DC area from within one of the Hueys, taken on my old school potato film camera.
744f4bc9-1ada-405c-bb2e-50a80071eb5b.jpg


Road march pic from along the Potomac parallel canal, I think it was called Old Dominion. My Recon Platoon did an 18-miler along it in 1995.

This is looking South along the Canal. DC is in behind the trees in the horizon for reference.
73fc4f60-cdbd-4304-93ad-fa534a076c49.jpg


615e320a-5cd3-4819-bfb9-665d4107590b.jpg
 
I have a question but I don't have the expertise to know if it has any value.

I had heard early on the the BH was on a standard continuity of government training mission and that much of their route was flown down the river. Right or wrong, I heard that one of more of the bridges on the Potomac are waypoints on that planned flight path.

Am I stupid for thinking that the bird would have to climb, at least momentarily to clear each bridge span/structure as they transited the route? I'm just thinking that </= 200' off the deck would not leave any margin to clear a good size bridge structure.

Where am I making a wrong assumption?

*edited cause I kant speal
None of the bridges down to the crash site are more than a couple of stories off of the water. Tallest thing would have been the scaffolding of the swing span on the railway bridge at the 14th St Bridge, but it's offset to the west bank.
I've been with ARNG going down the river to past the Navy Yard and they were level the whole way (but we was just checking out boat boobies, that crew might have actually been doing something on purpose).
 
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None of the bridges down to the crash site are more than a couple of stories off of the water. Tallest thing would have been the scaffolding of the swing span on the railway bridge at the 14th St Bridge, but it's offset to the west bank.
I've been with ARNG going down the river to past the Navy Yard and they were level the whole way.
Thanks for that.

I had no clue so was ASSuming that they would have been built higher to clear larger river traffic.
 
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I have a question but I don't have the expertise to know if it has any value.

I had heard early on the the BH was on a standard continuity of government training mission and that much of their route was flown down the river. Right or wrong, I heard that one of more of the bridges on the Potomac are waypoints on that planned flight path.

Am I stupid for thinking that the bird would have to climb, at least momentarily to clear each bridge span/structure as they transited the route? I'm just thinking that </= 200' off the deck would not leave any margin to clear a good size bridge structure.

Where am I making a wrong assumption?

*edited cause I kant speal
Nah, bridges are pretty low across the river in the city and besides, they were supposed to be hugging the east bank where any brides would be coming down to street level.

And, there wouldn’t be a 200’ ceiling on the route if there were obstructions at the height.

Just my never humble opinion. lol
 
I spent my first 2 years in the Army in MDW after OSUT at Fort Benning.

We used to regularly stage on LZs at Fort Myer for Air Assault missions right near Arlington National Cemetery and fly down to Fort A.P. Hill. We used that VIP Aviation unit from the area, who had mostly UH-1s at the time and might have just been getting UH-60s.

They’ve been safely flying all around the DC area and surrounding States of MD and VA for generations.

Pics of flying in UH-1H model if I recall correctly. Visibility was far superior for passengers than UH-60s.

This is looking East over the DC area from within one of the Hueys, taken on my old school potato film camera.
744f4bc9-1ada-405c-bb2e-50a80071eb5b.jpg


Road march pic from along the Potomac parallel canal, I think it was called Old Dominion. My Recon Platoon did an 18-miler along it in 1995.

This is looking South along the Canal. DC is in behind the trees in the horizon for reference.
73fc4f60-cdbd-4304-93ad-fa534a076c49.jpg


615e320a-5cd3-4819-bfb9-665d4107590b.jpg
You guys wore shorts!!?? lol Military def changed since I was in. No shorts in USAF in the 70’s. Not even at Nellis or Clark in the summer. lol.
 
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honestly, if a family member flew a blackhawk into a commercial flight, i would likely want to keep it on the dl.
I can see trying to shield the family from the media for sure. They may also be under advice of an attorney and probably should be just for their own safety, regardless of what the status of the pilot-under-test.
 
You’d be surprised at the number of airline pilots that were former LE.

Probably not, but go ahead and enlighten us to the percentage. However the post was about supposed pilots posting in this thread. I haven't seen anyone claiming that they are prior cpos and now a professional pilot. Therefore the point is valid.