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  • You Should Now Be Receiving Emails!

    The email issued mentioned earlier this week is now fixed! You may also have received previous emails that were meant to be sent over the last few days - apologies, this was a one time issue and shouldn't happen again!

I hope you don't have to return anything to Grafs

secondofangle2

secondofangle2

Online Training Member
Full Member
Minuteman
    • Jul 3, 2017
    2,953
    3,260
    #1
    I ordered several bushings, $27 each, realized a few of them were way off from what I need, so I went to return them. Here's what they make you do

    Call or email
    Get RMA from Darla
    send it back, pay for shipping
    Pay 10% restocking fee

    Darla never called back as the answerer on #3 told me she would 10 days ago. So I sent two emails over the past week. No reply so today I called again. Darla comes on the phone, says she emailed me twice. Did it go to spam? I don't know, I don't have time to pore through multiple folders. One thing for sure, there was no "reply" to the email streams I sent to [email protected], forwarding my original invoice so that the order # was right there. gmail shouldn't relocate to spam a reply to an active email stream.

    Are they trying to make it difficult on purpose? Yes, is my guess.

    Some of these places need to get with the 2020s. This is why people just buy their shit on amazon whenever they can. Easy Peasy.
     
    • Like
    • Wow
    Reactions: BCP, M260 and 232593
    #4
    IMG_0938.jpeg

    “Darla comes on the phone, says she emailed me twice. Did it go to spam? I don't know, I don't have time to pore through multiple folders. One thing for sure, there was no "reply" to the email streams I sent to [email protected]“

    But you couldn’t be bothered to check, so it’s not for sure.
     
    • Haha
    • Like
    Reactions: Mean_Man, Yasherka, stevieb92 and 5 others
    #6
    secondofangle2 said:
    Yep. The difficulty of this process relative to all of the other vendors is because of my own idiosyncratic peculiarities it has nothing to do with Grafs
    Click to expand...

    Graf’s is one of my favorite places to do business with. Product ships reasonably fast, communication is good and it is packed very well.

    I will admit that I rarely return things, so have no experience there.

    Sounds like you had a less than ideal “phone” experience.

    That said,
    • a 10% restocking fee is hardly unreasonable. AS LONG AS that is spelled out on their website. Especially for something you changed your mind on.
    • Paying return shipping is hardly unreasonable. Especially on something you changed your mind on.
    • Expecting you to check your spam folder is hardly unreasonable. Especially if you were shopping online.
    Comparing Grafs to Amazon, is however, completely unreasonable.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: Terry Cross, Rookie, 45-90 and 5 others
    #7
    It may be an unfair comparison, unless the products are available at both Grafs and Amazon.

    For example, today, I bought two pairs of WARNE rings that were available on the WARNE website for $99 plus a reasonable shipping fee, and they were available on Amazon for $100 with no shipping.

    I was going to default to WARNE because I would rather them make the full profit rather than sharing it with a third-party, even if it cost me more overall because of the shipping. But then I thought to myself “if I have any problems and want to return this, I can do it completely hasslefree with no questions asked from Amazon”

    So, WARNE lost that sale and Grafs will lose subsequent business from me when, ceteribus paribus, the return policy of their competitors is more favorable
     
    • Like
    Reactions: Ronws
    #10
    You should not pay it because you don’t have to if you order from businesses that do not charge a restocking fee

    I was surprised that the company has large as Grafs had a restocking fee, and maybe as a result of this threat a couple of people will think more carefully about it than I did
     
    • Haha
    Reactions: akmike47
    #12
    It sucks that you had a bad experience. I have ordered from Grafs a couple of times, though I usually don't because I typically find them to be quite a bit more expensive than other vendors for the things I seek. When I have ordered from them, I have never had to ship anything back, so I haven't ever been subjected to their process.

    Regarding the e-mail though, as a person who has administered many different e-mail systems over the years, I will tell you that it's unreasonable to expect that nothing will ever go to your spam folder. Every e-mail generates a unique id with regard to the mail host's software. Calculating something as spam is a fairly complex algorithm that is never as simple as "look at these words". If it were that simple, I could just put some blurb in an e-mail that was 'not spam' and hide that blurb so the recipient couldn't see it and bypass all the spam filters.

    I think it's unreasonable to expect every small store to be able to provide what you find at another store as far as shipping and returns go. Just because one place can give you free returns when you screw up and order the wrong thing doesn't mean that another store has the capital to do that. The good thing is these types of policies are clearly listed on most legitimate web vendors' sites, so you shouldn't be surprised by them.

    It sounds like you made a mistake and you had to spend a few bucks to ship it back. Someone had to receive that package, open it up, inspect it to make sure it's still in a salable condition, enter it back into an inventory management system as new if it was still unopened or decide what to do with it if it was opened (including very likely listing it for less money somewhere because it's now used), and physically place it back into the appropriate inventory storage area. Imagine how many times a year a random customer creates this process. It's not free, and it shouldn't cost them any money if it was your mistake.

    Amazon has volume-based pricing with the shipping carriers and they have a highly automated process that allows them to lose as little as possible on returns while still moving millions of packages a month. It's a process that cannot be fairly compared to anyone other than companies that rival their size.

    I do agree that it's annoying when a vendor makes a mistake and ships you the wrong product or ships you a defective product and you are required to pay for return shipping. I also agree that it's annoying to have to get an RMA from an actual person as opposed to an automated system, but I also understand that smaller companies can't or don't want to automate that. An automated process will see more fraudulent RMAs and will see more RMAs in general.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: Terry Cross, DeadAss, secondofangle2 and 1 other person
    #18
    wvfarrier said:
    10% seems fair if its not their fault.
    Click to expand...
    I’m actually upset I had to press the “reply” button because Frank hasn’t sorted out how to read my mind and reply for me automatically.
    10% restock is on the website. Don’t like it, don’t order from them.
    One thing it helps with is people ordering 5 different things to finger before they then return 4 they didn’t like.
     
    • Like
    • Haha
    Reactions: Yasherka, Terry Cross, sgtsmmiii and 5 others
    #22
    djarecke said:
    "Pour" through multiple spam folders, not "pore".

    If you're going to ignore rules about a merchant's restocking fees, you shouldn't also ignore grammar rules and spelling.
    Click to expand...
    guess what genius

    pore​

    1 of 2

    verb​

    ˈpȯr

    pored; poring
    Synonyms of pore
    intransitive verb
    1
    : to gaze intently

    2
    : to read or study attentively

    —usually used with over

    3
    : to reflect or meditate steadily

    You are absolutely completely out of your league here if you're going to try to pick on my vocabulary, semantics, or understanding of homonyms.
     
    Last edited:
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    • Haha
    Reactions: trob, Bullfrog08, smoothy8500 and 3 others
    #24
    I admit that it was my fault for not checking for the return policy, which is clearly stated.

    And I'm paying the restocking fee.

    Perhaps Grafs should amend their "return policy" page and remind people to check their spam folder? After all, their other emails come to my inbox.
     
    #26
    So You ordered something, they sent you what You ordered.

    You decided what you ordered wasn't what you actually wanted and wanted to send it back.
    Fine.

    So you are bitching that you had to pay to ship it back?
    Well isn't that only fair, it's not their fault you didn't want it. If you bought it at a store you'd have to get your lazy ass in a car and drive it back there.

    Now they have to take that item back, have some employee spend time and effort unpacking it checking it to see if it's still new and can be sold as such or if you've turned it into a used or open box item which they will have to take a loss on (because I'm sure you wouldn't be happy to pay full price to get something somebody like you returned).

    Then they have to put it back into inventory and process the refund and such.

    Tell you what, how about you do it all yourself and they'll offer to pay you the $2.70 they charged for doing that and see how long it takes you and if you think that's fair pay for your labour.

    But no, you feel all special and entitled because some peddlers of Chinese junk offer "free" all that (hint Amazon doesn't actually exactly offer free returns for stuff you change your mind on, but hey you can get around it by lying because who cares about being honest anyways). Because they are jacking up huge profit margins on all the stuff they bring in from China.

    And wait, all this angst over a $27 item.

    People who want to get all stuffy about wanting to return a $27 item are kind of probably folks you don't really want as customers for the most part.
     
    • Like
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    #28
    secondofangle2 said:
    I admit that it was my fault for not checking for the return policy, which is clearly stated.

    And I'm paying the restocking fee.

    Perhaps Grafs should amend their "return policy" page and remind people to check their spam folder? After all, their other emails come to my inbox.
    Click to expand...

    Or you know you could just realize that your Gmail B.S. is run by a bunch of 2A hating Indians who might just you know put e-mails from 2A companies into spam folders and maybe every so often you take a quick check in that folder.

    I check my spam folders regularly to see if anything went there that I needed, and quite often something did.

    Really, you didn't bother checking your spam folder first and were whining that you never got the e-mails.
    That's like the first thing you do.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: CSTactical, Eostech and johnnycat
    #29
    Wasted their employees time on the order/packaging/shipping, wasted time on the RMA, and wasted time on the physical "restocking". Wasted a box, packing, tape, label (potential wear and tear on the items packaging).

    I ran a teeny tiny online/via mail service for a little over 10 years. Extremely low volume, even at my busiest I was sending a whopping 4-5 packages a week, but what I spent in packing tape, good lord! :D

    Graf's really pissed me off last week. Didn't send me half an order, basically because of a paperwork oversight on their part. They did the right thing, said if I wanted to reorder I could, and they'd cover the shipping. Which they are.

    You can't really compare other companies to Amazon, hell they're making so much money they just write off a ton on the returns and/or just sell it in bulk. As for why we use them, they're kind of like a convenience store "it aint the cheapest, but it's right here." Hell I order things from Amazon and pay more at times because I'm just too lazy to take my wallet out and type in credit card numbers on another site. :D
     
    • Like
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    #39
    secondofangle2 said:
    I should rename the post "restocking fees suck!" but I don't want to deprive you guys of the entertainment I have provided thus far
    Click to expand...

    Entertainment rating , maybe 2/10

    The Pit Howler Monkeys haven't seemed very interested in slinging poo in this thread ,which has been a great disappointment.

    Now, if ya want to up that entertainment rating ........just double / triple down on being right........call out the disagreers as" retards " ect. Be / act more like "Flip " ,if that's even possible, or the bench pressing , bow shooting, concrete working guy with a truckdriving mother with bad knees. I gar un tee the poo singers will be up in quicker that a cat can lick it's ass ,providing plenty of entertainment.

    But yous gots ta play the part.........AND " if you decide to except this mission, you are on your own....good luck "
     
    • Haha
    Reactions: db2000 and secondofangle2
    #40
    • Love
    Reactions: Huskydriver
    #42
    Well, I was going to ask you guys what you though about my 20-something neighbors whose propane grill caught fire tonight on an isolated concrete pad and I told them to go get a hose. They refused, saying "YOU DON'T PUT WATER ON A GREASE FIRE" and, unpersuaded, they stood there for 10 minutes and watched it burn. Now I'm afraid you're going to tell me they were right.

    OTOH, my firefighter friend, on learning of this said "I would put the wet stuff on the red stuff" LOL

    Different folks, different strokes, I guess hahahha
     
    • Haha
    Reactions: 232593
    #44
    secondofangle2 said:
    Well, I was going to ask you guys what you though about my 20-something neighbors whose propane grill caught fire tonight on an isolated concrete pad and I told them to go get a hose. They refused, saying "YOU DON'T PUT WATER ON A GREASE FIRE" and, unpersuaded, they stood there for 10 minutes and watched it burn. Now I'm afraid you're going to tell me they were right.

    OTOH, my firefighter friend, on learning of this said "I would put the wet stuff on the red stuff" LOL

    Different folks, different strokes, I guess hahahha
    Click to expand...

    This threads like watching autism dry
     
    • Haha
    Reactions: BillyBob13, Yasherka and WasNH4X
    #50
    db2000 said:
    Hell, Amazon is like “this Chinese shit you ordered is so cheap, not only do we not have a restocking fee, here’s your money back, don’t even bother returning it.”
    Click to expand...

    A few years ago I ordered an Aimpoint from Amazon. Got a message it was delivered. Got home and no package at the door. Did a chat with a CS rep and money was back on my card a few days later.

    A week later, neighbor up the street (12 vs 21 house number) knocked on the door and handed me the package. I made several attempts to return.
     
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