Badlands "Shell Shock" 5.56 - snake oil?

AwkwardlySocial · Tuesday at 11:38 AM

Hey guys, can anyone here explain the difference between the rounds in the video/links below, and normal steel case ammo? Is Badlands just loading extra-hot (maybe dangerously hot) steel-case 5.56 and trying to hype it for higher profit margins? I tried to link the Youtube video to where the host notes that the case is "nickel alloy stainless case," but how metallurgically different is that from...say...Tula or Brown Bear cases, or the steel-case 77gr OTM that AAC was selling a few months ago on the Palmetto State Armory website?

I'm also suspicious of his FGMM 77gr velocity numbers from the 10.3 barrel. He shoots a 5-round group, but shots 2, 3, and 4 are cut from the video, and the last shot is suspiciously higher than the average, while the first shot is suspiciously low. It seems like a fairly extreme spread for that ammunition.

Oh, also: Badlands wants $1.45/round for these "Shell Shock" this 77gr OTM rounds (https://badlandsmunitionsco.com/product/556-nas3-77gr-sierra-match-king/), so the statement at 0:00:15 that it is "the same price as your brass 5.56" is an outright lie. Just one more red flag to call out.

There are probably more nits to pick too, but those are the ones that jumped out at me first. Does this activate anyone else's Spidey senses? Do we have any history/reason to trust that this guy is an honest broker of information? Am I missing a major reason to buy the hype here?

TonyTheTiger · Tuesday at 11:58 AM

Been wondering this same thing for a while. I don't shoot factory ammo but I'm curious if I can replicate their number, safely, with hybrid cases.

AwkwardlySocial · Tuesday at 12:01 PM

TonyTheTiger said:
Been wondering this same thing for a while. I don't shoot factory ammo but I'm curious if I can replicate their number, safely, with hybrid cases.

If I understand the situation correctly, it's only an extra 50ish fps from 77gr projectiles out of a 10.3" barrel, average, based on the numbers he's showing us (which may or may not be intentionally/unintentionally deceptive). For double to triple the price of current 77gr OTM rounds.

Tx_Aggie · Tuesday at 12:17 PM

AwkwardlySocial said:
Hey guys, can anyone here explain the difference between the rounds in the video/links below, and normal steel case ammo? Is Badlands just loading extra-hot (maybe dangerously hot) steel-case 5.56 and trying to hype it for higher profit margins? I tried to link the Youtube video to where the host notes that the case is "nickel alloy stainless case," but how metallurgically different is that from...say...Tula or Brown Bear cases, or the steel-case 77gr OTM that AAC was selling a few months ago on the Palmetto State Armory website?

I'm also suspicious of his FGMM 77gr velocity numbers from the 10.3 barrel. He shoots a 5-round group, but shots 2, 3, and 4 are cut from the video, and the last shot is suspiciously higher than the average, while the first shot is suspiciously low. It seems like a fairly extreme spread for that ammunition.

Oh, also: Badlands wants $1.45/round for these "Shell Shock" this 77gr OTM rounds (https://badlandsmunitionsco.com/product/556-nas3-77gr-sierra-match-king/), so the statement at 0:00:15 that it is "the same price as your brass 5.56" is an outright lie. Just one more red flag to call out.

There are probably more nits to pick too, but those are the ones that jumped out at me first. Does this activate anyone else's Spidey senses? Do we have any history/reason to trust that this guy is an honest broker of information? Am I missing a major reason to buy the hype here?

Badlands is one of a couple of companies loading ammo using cases manufactured by Shell Shock Technologies. And yeah, that video is pretty clearly an Advert to Badlands.

You can find more information on the NAS3 case technology on Shell Shock Tech's website here:

https://shellshocktechnologies.com/

A buddy gave me some empty cases to play with, but unfortunately I haven't found time to start experimenting with them yet. So I don't have any direct experience to report, only what others have told me.

From what he and some other friends I considerer knowledgeable have said, getting a 77gr SMK to 2900 fps from an 18" barrel should be doable (and safe). From what I understand this is partly because of increased case capacity, and partly because the case material is stronger than brass.

I'm curious to see how the increased chamber pressure affects the gas system, and whether or not it has any increased wear on parts.

My friend also said the cases don't seem to be reloadable, at least not with standard dies.

TonyTheTiger · Tuesday at 12:18 PM

Ah. I haven't watched any chrono videos, just looked at the listed velocities from these guys, BlackArc and I think one other place whose name escapes me right now, and it seemed like they all claimed 100-150fps faster than the accepted average for a given bullet weight.

Trigger Monkey · Tuesday at 12:29 PM

Running the numbers, theoretically, if I shoot this out of my 16" gun, which is currently getting 2675fps from IMI 77 OTM and we up that to 2800 fps (taking the middle ground), it's not THAT impressive. IMI is 4.9 mils to 600 yds, goes transonic around 750 yards, needs 1.0 mil wind deflection in a full value 5 mph wind, and carries 356 ft/lbs of energy at 600. Badlands, going the theoretical 2800 fps needs 4.3 mils to 600 yds, goes transonic at about 800 yds, needs .9 mils wind deflection in the same wind conditions, and carries 400 ft/lbs of energy at 600 yds. So...yeah...all that extra money and velocity equates to a flatter shooting cartridge that'll still get blown around and hits with about the same energy.

I'm not sure the juice would be worth the squeeze honestly compared to simply going to something like a 6.5G, 6ARC, or 6MAX if I needed additional downrange performance.

Bantam1 · Tuesday at 12:50 PM

I'm sure barrel wear is also accelerated. I know the hybrid stainless cases work and you can get more speed. Like others have said, is it really worth it with 223.

Trigger Monkey · Tuesday at 1:07 PM

Mk 262 Mod 1 was peak 5.56 77 gr ammunition and anything since seems to be diminishing returns in one form or another, in my opinion. The Badlands NAS3 85gr Match Burners sound interesting and might warrant a closer look.

Tictacticaltimmy · Tuesday at 3:13 PM

It is definitely not snake oil. blackarc has been making high end ammo with nas3 casings for a couple years and PSA sells bulk ammo with nas3 casings.

Haven't tried any myself but they look like a great option for improving terminal performance at medium range especially for SBRs.

TonyAngel · Tuesday at 9:51 PM

I've only had the opportunity to fire a handful of the 80 something grain badlands rounds and wasn't able to chrony it, but it shot accurately out of my 16" Criterion.

I have played around with the Black Arc stuff though. I tend to relegate ammunition to certain rigs that I use for certain tasks.

I picked up 100 rounds of the 77gr Black Arc and 150 rounds of the 53gr V-Max stuff. I got the 77gr stuff for my Mod H inspired 16" rig and the 53gr stuff to run in my 11.5.

The 77s in the 16" criterion hybrid barrel got me 2800ish fps and shot as accurately or better than results I get with either Black Hills or IMI stuff.

The 53gr V-Max out of my 11.5 got me 2900ish fps and shot lights out. The most accurate 50ish grain round I've tried thus far and it was FAST.

Is it worth it? If you roll your own, probably not; but, if you shoot commercial ammo, it might be. The 77s are priced a bit higher than Black Hills, but the 53s are in line with other premium ammo.

Of what I've tried so far, I really like the 53s. I dont plan on shooting my 11.5 beyond 400 and the 53s hit steel with authority at that distance.

I'd like to try the 77s in the 11.5, but I don't see spending $1.40 a round to do what I do with the 11.5. At $1 a round for the 53s, I can see keeping a small stash for the occasional thrill or days when the wind is particularly bad.

nagantguy · Tuesday at 10:24 PM

I watched the video OP was talking about - did the same calculation ms as several above have posted , the Juice don’t seem worth the squeeze - at least not in 5.56.

Now I do think hybrid cases are in their infancy and will develop into a promising future based on what some here have posted/ played with/ experimented with.
Could be worth the squeeze in 6.5/308 and up - if the cases could be reloaded multitudes without having to buy a whole new set up press dies shell holders , lube trimmers ect .

TonyAngel · 2025-04-23T09:28:22-0400

I just went through my notes from the range day when I was playing around with the Black Arc stuff.

With the 11.5, I get 2750 fps out of M193 and similarly loaded rounds. I got 2900 out of the 53gr Black Arc. My notes tell me that the velocity gain is marginal. Not enough to make a real difference down range.

With the 16", I get something around 2550 out of a typical 77gr 5.56 load, in this case AAC 77gr OTM. The Black Arc got me 2800 fps. You know, to me that seems to be entering the realm of being a meaningful bump in velocity, but at 3x the cost.

Maybe the thinking I expressed above may have been a$$ backwards. It might be worth keeping some of the 77gr Black Arc around for those special occasions when I just need a bit more. Oddly, in my 16", having zero for the 77gr AAC is spot on with the Black Arc at 100. Right on in windage and within a tenth or two on elevation.

TonyTheTiger · 2025-04-23T09:42:28-0400

TonyAngel said:
It might be worth keeping some of the 77gr Black Arc around for those special occasions when I just need a bit more. Oddly, in my 16", having zero for the 77gr AAC is spot on with the Black Arc at 100. Right on in windage and within a tenth or two on elevation.

I don't know, every time I think I'm gonna keep something extra spicy around for special occasions I end up being annoyed that I need to develop and use entirely different dope for it, and then when the performance increase is only incrementally better I give up and just go back to one standard heavy bullet load.

ut755ln · 2025-04-23T10:48:20-0400

Trigger Monkey said:
I'm not sure the juice would be worth the squeeze honestly compared to simply going to something like a 6.5G, 6ARC, or 6MAX if I needed additional downrange performance.

That was my solution, 6 ARC upper.

Trigger Monkey · 2025-04-23T11:17:49-0400

Muzzle velocity sells ammo but BC gets hits.

TonyTheTiger · 2025-04-23T11:25:19-0400

Trigger Monkey said:
Muzzle velocity sells ammo but BC gets hits.

Eh, inside 500 yards I'd argue against that.

Trigger Monkey · 2025-04-23T12:34:57-0400

Haha this is true, I can get hits with crappy 55 gr ball to about 500 but I think they’re mostly marketing this to those pushing small frame AR’s to 600+. The point I was going for is that shills are going to hype the hell out of the velocity but ignore that in terms of wind and ft/lbs it’s not that much better.

bfoosh006 · 2025-04-23T12:49:20-0400

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but as far as reloading the NAS3 cases... I Only see the 9MM cases as reloadable.

No rifle NAS3 cases can be reloaded ?

"No, Shell Tech’s rifle cases are precision-engineered, military-grade ammunition cases and are not designed to be reloaded. Reloading these cases can compromise their performance and safety, so we do not recommend or support reloading them."

Tx_Aggie · 2025-04-23T12:59:01-0400

bfoosh006 said:
Someone correct me if I am wrong, but as far as reloading the NAS3 cases... I Only see the 9MM cases as reloadable.

No rifle NAS3 cases can be reloaded ?

"No, Shell Tech’s rifle cases are precision-engineered, military-grade ammunition cases and are not designed to be reloaded. Reloading these cases can compromise their performance and safety, so we do not recommend or support reloading them."

Yeah, that's my understanding. And I think the 9mm cases may require a special set of dies.

TonyAngel · 2025-04-23T13:21:34-0400

Trigger Monkey said:
Muzzle velocity sells ammo but BC gets hits.

That statement reminded me of something. When I was first looking at the 53gr Black Arc ammo, I wondered why they went with the 53gr vs the 55. The bit of research I did showed that the 53gr has the highest BC (that I could find) of any 50ish grain projectile. Arguably speed and BC for its class.

Still... honestly, I just restocked 77 grain ammo for 500+ shooting. I'm limited to 800 yards. I decided to just go with the 77gr winchester contract overrun stuff. It's a little slow, but its loaded with Barnes Matchburners and is pretty consistent. I'm just shooting at steel anyway. At .70 a round, its a bit easier to stomach.

Trigger Monkey · 2025-04-23T13:37:31-0400

I'm stocked up on IMI 77 gr myself and need to get some more, the AAC 77 OTM is decent for the cost but slow.

lonestar1845 · 2025-04-24T09:28:20-0400

No, it's legit. I shot a prs match with my mk12 for fun with the black arc 77's just to test them out. Average velocity was 2870 from an 18" barrel and the accuracy was on par with my mk 262 clones.

MikeMiller · 2025-04-24T09:48:41-0400

The advantage of 100fps in 10-12” barrels as I see it is mostly lethality. The 77’s normally just don’t have enough velocity in short barrels for the great stopping power they are known for from 16” and longer barrels

On video he is testing what appears to be Blackhills standard 77 load not the military version which is far faster

No doubt the video is slanted but shows promise.

Jsp556 · 2025-04-24T12:48:08-0400

Ridgeline shooting at a mile with the black arc and the lrsu guy hitting the milk jug at 1500 with 77gr hand loads. I guess if you want box ammo go for it but the hand loaded 77’s performed well too.

Badlands "Shell Shock" 5.56 - snake oil?

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