2021 ELR rifle weight and caliber restrictions

SmileMaker · Jan 6, 2021

Copied from another source and does not apply to K02M:

2021 ELR Rifle weight and caliber Restrictions.
I’m proud to inform everyone that the match directors from the organizations listed below have come together and United on one set of rules for ELR.
FCSA
NRA ELR Nationals
Spearpoint
Ringneck
ELRSO
ELR Southeast
Longrangeonly
Worlds longest shot challenge
ELR Central
We have all identified that we had different rules and weights and it was effecting our sport.
Now anyone wanting to compete in an ELR match can travel anywhere in the USA and be within the same set of rules.
Each individual ELR match may have their own set of unique rules but we wanted one common set of rules for the weights, calibers, bipods and spotters.
ELR Heavy class
Up to 50 Caliber
50 Pounds or less
Any bipod
Up to 2 spotters
ELR light class
338 caliber and below
.585 bolt face and smaller
26 pounds or less
Any bipod
Up to 2 spotters
ELR World Records
3/3 from cold bore
36 inch square plate
Must be video taped
Only one rifle can be used per shooter
Minimum of 4 hours in between attempts
Minimum of 10 witnesses
Must be open to the public

Rocketmandb · Jan 6, 2021

SmileMaker said:
50 Pounds or less

The nice thing about the ELR Heavy class is you get your workout in just getting your rifle out of your vehicle.

iceng · Jan 7, 2021

Any info on rimfire ELR ?? Also, only below 338 ? Would have expected a 7mm and below or something..

badassgunworks · Jan 9, 2021

iceng said:
Any info on rimfire ELR ?? Also, only below 338 ? Would have expected a 7mm and below or something..

ELR is about extended distances pushing the limits . I understand that guys with smaller calibers want to compete in elr but its recognized as a sport by the competitors as starting at 1500 yards and going out past 3000 yards. All though some smaller calibers. can do well to extended distances there in no way optimum to the typical elr match limits . I personaly dont believe that any one wants to promote the sport to go backwards but encourage it to move foward 338 is a good entry level caliber thats why its reasonable for the lower class and sence its at a dis advantage compaired to 375 408 and 416 cartrigdes . It would have been wise to separate the 2 classes by h20 and not caliber but it would be more difficult to monitor compliance. The 33 xc should in my personal view should be in the upper class. But what do i know. I personaly dont agreewith bolt face restrictions. The restrictions inhibit advancements in the sport like wildcatting like making a shortend cheytac case of 130 grains in 338 to compete aginst cartridges like the xc cartridges. I am very happy they at least came togather and created some consistancy.

iceng · Jan 9, 2021

I understand, and get that. I remember something about a 22lr record of a few hundred metres (want to say like 460ish or more ?) For the 3 shots. Why I asked. Was not sure what the standards were.

Someone posted their 1000+ shot for a 22lr here not long ago.

Geno C. · Jan 9, 2021

These rules aren’t set in stone yet.

brianf · Jan 9, 2021

“More difficult to monitor compliance”

this is a sport and humans are humanswill always stretch the rules

would a 2-3% stretching of the rules case capacity wise really make a difference at ELR?

Geno C. · Jan 9, 2021

brianf · Jan 9, 2021

that was a short walk off the plank lol

thanks for the post

Steel head · Jan 9, 2021

Seems plenty reasonable.

Esoteric Junkie · Jan 9, 2021

More encumbering BS rules for those that want to compete in the light class. Many in the "light" class have already built .338 rigs that are over 26 pounds or have Cheytac bolt faces. Reminds me of the BS rule changes that King of 2 Miles did last year. What a joke!

Make it easy and have two classes, .338 and below and everything above with no weight restrictions. Run what you brung and hope you brung enough!

EJ

THEIS · Jan 10, 2021

Esoteric Junkie said:
More encumbering BS rules for those that want to compete in the light class. Many in the "light" class have already built .338 rigs that are over 26 pounds or have Cheytac bolt faces. Reminds me of the BS rule changes that King of 2 Miles did last year. What a joke!

Make it easy and have two classes, .338 and below and everything above with no weight restrictions. Run what you brung and hope you brung enough!

EJ

Hi,

Except that would not play into the BS of catering to a couple people/entities "designs" over the rest.

ELR mindset over the past few years since it has recently become "profitable"...
"We are on the forefront of development and pushing the boundaries"..but but we want you to do it with restrictions A, B, C, D, Etc because so and so says it would be good.

Akin to starting a drag racing series to see who can get the "fastest car" but then regulating to commercial pump fuel.

Sincerely,
Theis

badassgunworks · Jan 10, 2021

THEIS said:
Hi,

Except that would not play into the BS of catering to a couple people/entities "designs" over the rest.

ELR mindset over the past few years since it has recently become "profitable"...
"We are on the forefront of development and pushing the boundaries"..but but we want you to do it with restrictions A, B, C, D, Etc because so and so says it would be good.

Akin to starting a drag racing series to see who can get the "fastest car" but then regulating to commercial pump fuel.

Extremely well said Theis..
Guys want to keep the xc on the lower class but targeted eliminating the 338 enabelr go figure. I say 338 and under 30 pound limit and 358 and up 60 pound limit for the two classes make it true elr and the guys wanting to use 300 prc 300 win bag and creed will just be forced to walk away and go find their own sport.

ELR researcher · Jan 10, 2021

Hm...having not been contacted, and pre-dating, as best I know, all the listed organizations for actually holding organized (comprehensive rule set) ELR (1500 yard an beyond) events, URSA's rules remain as they have been from day one (May 3, 2015):

NO weight limit
NO cartridge limit beyond locally legal - in California that is .50 caliber, including .50 BMG, .50/20, .50 DTC, etc.
NO restriction on shooting platform - freehand, bench, bipod, tripod, back of a semi (seriously)

Its called "run what you brung" and we're open for competition (but... we're FREE to shoot, no fees since day one). Next event is next Sunday, January 17th, in the Clear Lake area of NorCal. See our other thread - https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/ursa-norcal-sunday-17-january-2021.7051894/

5150Neo · Feb 3, 2021

ELR researcher said:
Hm...having not been contacted, and pre-dating, as best I know, all the listed organizations for actually holding organized (comprehensive rule set) ELR (1500 yard an beyond) events, URSA's rules remain as they have been from day one (May 3, 2015):

NO weight limit
NO cartridge limit beyond locally legal - in California that is .50 caliber, including .50 BMG, .50/20, .50 DTC, etc.
NO restriction on shooting platform - freehand, bench, bipod, tripod, back of a semi (seriously)

Its called "run what you brung" and we're open for competition (but... we're FREE to shoot, no fees since day one). Next event is next Sunday, January 17th, in the Clear Lake area of NorCal. See our other thread - https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/ursa-norcal-sunday-17-january-2021.7051894/

SmileMaker said:
Copied from another source and does not apply to K02M:

2021 ELR Rifle weight and caliber Restrictions.
I’m proud to inform everyone that the match directors from the organizations listed below have come together and United on one set of rules for ELR.
FCSA
NRA ELR Nationals
Spearpoint
Ringneck
ELRSO
ELR Southeast
Longrangeonly
Worlds longest shot challenge
ELR Central
We have all identified that we had different rules and weights and it was effecting our sport.
Now anyone wanting to compete in an ELR match can travel anywhere in the USA and be within the same set of rules.
Each individual ELR match may have their own set of unique rules but we wanted one common set of rules for the weights, calibers, bipods and spotters.
ELR Heavy class
Up to 50 Caliber
50 Pounds or less
Any bipod
Up to 2 spotters
ELR light class
338 caliber and below
.585 bolt face and smaller
26 pounds or less
Any bipod
Up to 2 spotters
ELR World Records
3/3 from cold bore
36 inch square plate
Must be video taped
Only one rifle can be used per shooter
Minimum of 4 hours in between attempts
Minimum of 10 witnesses
Must be open to the public

Coming into this thread a little late, was looking for matches and I have to say I cannot believe the back and forth on the rules. I am asking you guys making these rules to please take into consideration the many thousands of dollars that we are investing in these rifles when you set these limitations. Many of us have built rifles that are within limits previously set, then someone changes the rules eliminating the expense we just put forth to compete with these rifles. I just finished a build several months back and have competitive data and loads ready to go. But just read this post, and I am pissed. You just eliminated my investment. A fifty pound weight restriction for calibers like the 416, 375, 408, and 50 is not going to push the limits of what is possible with long range shooting. It will only push the limits of a fifty pound rifle with shorter barrels. If you want weight restrictions within the classes then divide the light and heavy class into limited and unlimited for light and heavy. Or Tactical and unlimited for light and heavy. But dont just set a rule that eliminates other rifles that were built before X date. 60Lb is not unreasonable for a unlimited heavy class rifle.

Geno C. · Feb 3, 2021

5150Neo said:
Coming into this thread a little late, was looking for matches and I have to say I cannot believe the back and forth on the rules. I am asking you guys making these rules to please take into consideration the many thousands of dollars that we are investing in these rifles when you set these limitations. Many of us have built rifles that are within limits previously set, then someone changes the rules eliminating the expense we just put forth to compete with these rifles. I just finished a build several months back and have competitive data and loads ready to go. But just read this post, and I am pissed. You just eliminated my investment. A fifty pound weight restriction for calibers like the 416, 375, 408, and 50 is not going to push the limits of what is possible with long range shooting. It will only push the limits of a fifty pound rifle with shorter barrels. If you want weight restrictions within the classes then divide the light and heavy class into limited and unlimited for light and heavy. Or Tactical and unlimited for light and heavy. But dont just set a rule that eliminates other rifles that were built before X date. 60Lb is not unreasonable for a unlimited heavy class rifle.

Who allowed rifles over 50lb before in an elr match?

wildcats · Feb 3, 2021

I don't know what the big deal is with all this rules,Race what you bring and call it a day.if your outgunned then thats your problem.bring something bigger next time..

high right · Feb 3, 2021

Like PMS shooting stretching stages with Jiggly platforms, bags of beach balls, rope walls etc. If it's stupid, give me a zero cause I'll throw down next to it and shoot. I just want to shoot without all the "special Olympics" stuff. I built a 338 LM Imp. That's capable out to 2500 I'd say 70%. Absolutely no interest in the KO2M match. But, I like to shoot some of the local ELR matches. I don't see why all the drama. Plate size has already been set at 36" max? Cool wit dat. 338 and below seems like a good place to draw a line. Then open, whatever wildcat weight gun you want. It's supposed to be fun right?

Geno C. · Feb 3, 2021

high right said:
Like PMS shooting stretching stages with Jiggly platforms, bags of beach balls, rope walls etc. If it's stupid, give me a zero cause I'll throw down next to it and shoot. I just want to shoot without all the "special Olympics" stuff. I built a 338 LM Imp. That's capable out to 2500 I'd say 70%. Absolutely no interest in the KO2M match. But, I like to shoot some of the local ELR matches. I don't see why all the drama. Plate size has already been set at 36" max? Cool wit dat. 338 and below seems like a good place to draw a line. Then open, whatever wildcat weight gun you want. It's supposed to be fun right?

Plate size isn’t settled at all really. The ELR at Clark’s Knob match from that fall that a ton of hits way out there happened, had plates as but as 48”

ELR researcher · Feb 3, 2021

Geno C. said:
Who allowed rifles over 50lb before in an elr match?

URSA - since day 1

Geno C. · Feb 3, 2021

ELR researcher said:
URSA - since day 1

Did they change?

badassgunworks · Feb 4, 2021

Geno C. said:
Did they change?

No they have not

BillyGoatMachine · Feb 4, 2021

ELR researcher said:
Hm...having not been contacted, and pre-dating, as best I know, all the listed organizations for actually holding organized (comprehensive rule set) ELR (1500 yard an beyond) events, URSA's rules remain as they have been from day one (May 3, 2015):

NO weight limit
NO cartridge limit beyond locally legal - in California that is .50 caliber, including .50 BMG, .50/20, .50 DTC, etc.
NO restriction on shooting platform - freehand, bench, bipod, tripod, back of a semi (seriously)

Its called "run what you brung" and we're open for competition (but... we're FREE to shoot, no fees since day one). Next event is next Sunday, January 17th, in the Clear Lake area of NorCal. See our other thread - https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/ursa-norcal-sunday-17-january-2021.7051894/

Your club is growing. I may have 5 new spectators that want to attend the Feb 21st event if the weather holds.

The rules are simple in URSA, bring whatever gun you have and shoot it whatever way you want as long as its safe. The only thing we don't have is a fancy facility to shoot from.

wildcats · Feb 4, 2021

The way i see it is,to many Primadonna's in the sport .maybe they just don't want the competition.
Saw that here 20 years ago when i used to shoot tactical matches on base,you had a few guys that would complain about the custom rifle you brought and not playing fair ,i would fire back a say,i don't let my wife dictate what i can buy to shoot with.that purdy much would shut them up.needless to say they wouldn't complain to me when the saw me coming.
Come on man! where did i here that before?

Ledzep · Feb 4, 2021

What's funny... Maybe just to me... Is that it really doesn't matter with ELR how much the gun weighs or what caliber it is (under .50). It's expensive dice rolling. Short of steerable projectiles I don't know that there's really any "gaming" it.

Geno C. · Feb 4, 2021

That’s not really gaming but the bigger the bullet, in theory, the better the bc and higher likelihood of hitting a target. That big bullet comes with big recoil so guns get heavier. I would say they’re wanting to restrict by caliber and weight for some reason that isn’t about pushing things farther

iceng · Feb 5, 2021

wildcats said:
i don't let my wife dictate what i can buy to shoot with.that purdy much would shut them up

You are my new spirit animal. I'm also stealing this line.

BillyGoatMachine · Feb 5, 2021

I can see weight restrictions in the larger more popular comps simply to keep matches moving along at a reasonable pace. Imagine if everyone had 50lb+ rifles to lug around to each stage. It simply wouldn't be fair half the time due to changing conditions, especially winds. Morning vs afternoon winds can be drastic. URSA has relatively small participation, ranging from 5-15 competitors at a time so its not as big of a deal when Lynn brings out his 80lb stick.

Geno C. · Feb 5, 2021

skkeeter said:
I can see weight restrictions in the larger more popular comps simply to keep matches moving along at a reasonable pace. Imagine if everyone had 50lb+ rifles to lug around to each stage. It simply wouldn't be fair half the time due to changing conditions, especially winds. Morning vs afternoon winds can be drastic. URSA has relatively small participation, ranging from 5-15 competitors at a time so its not as big of a deal when Lynn brings out his 80lb stick.

You put people on a time limit for a match. It would be stupid not to

iceng · Feb 5, 2021

Or time limit on setup. PRS has "deploy on clock". Spotter, setting rifle, bags, your chrono, whatever. 10mins for a stage, you start in a staging area ???

Yes it's a crap idea, but it's an idea. If PRS shooters can carry all their gear, deploy on the clock and impact a target at 700m in under 20sec, if you can't then you should evaluate why you are wasting you money and everyone's time.

badassgunworks · Feb 7, 2021

Geno C. said:
That’s not really gaming but the bigger the bullet, in theory, the better the bc and higher likelihood of hitting a target. That big bullet comes with big recoil so guns get heavier. I would say they’re wanting to restrict by caliber and weight for some reason that isn’t about pushing things farther

If you restrict weight you restrict caliber, barrel, length and thus performance so that those pushing marketed cartridges and chassis type platforms can be competitive. Or at least have a chance to win or do well in the larger illustrious premier matches. No one will admit it. But thats the reason its the attempt to level the playing field to their favor. But elr should be about pushing the boundaries not stiffening it.

iceng · Feb 7, 2021

In any event or competition, theres 2 groups, those there with the spirit of the event and competition, and those there to win.

It's a fine balance, it can scare off new shooters / competitors as they don't want to "cheat" to win, but still want to compete on a fair field.

I still believe there should be an "unlimited" class, providing it's legal/safe. Like those machine-rest comp gun,. If you want a 60" squeeze bore that swages from 50cal to 475cal, and you have some electronic trigger and some funky electronic firing pin with binos as your scope coz you want 2 eyes, then have at it. Hell, have 30cm long pegs to secure your bipod into the ground, then whatever.

Then have reasonable classes, with restrictions.

Geno C. · Feb 7, 2021

I think it still needs to be shoulder fired in my opinion. Although, a cannon comp would be fun

G5guy · Feb 8, 2021

Well, I must say,,,this is a very interesting thread. I don't shoot ELR competitions but what I have noticed in the reading of posts is that I am confused. Are you competing on marksmanship or equipment? Seems to me to be like sex,,,measuring equipment or ability.

Geno C. · Feb 8, 2021

G5guy said:
Well, I must say,,,this is a very interesting thread. I don't shoot ELR competitions but what I have noticed in the reading of posts is that I am confused. Are you competing on marksmanship or equipment? Seems to me to be like sex,,,measuring equipment or ability.

If you have a small dick, don’t show up to a dick measuring contest. And don’t ask me to cut off some of mine either

Newbie2020 · Feb 8, 2021

The top competitors in KoTM put in a lot of practice time at extreme long range as a team. No matter how good the rifle is if the team can’t read wind, spot misses, and communicate efficiently they won’t hit squat.

THEIS · Feb 8, 2021

Newbie2020 said:
The top competitors in KoTM put in a lot of practice time at extreme long range as a team. No matter how good the rifle is if the team can’t read wind, spot misses, and communicate efficiently they won’t hit squat.

Hi,

So going on that principle....what are the ever increasing "limitations" for, lol?

Don't answer that, hahaha....was rhetorical.....I already know the answer.

Shit, I have an idea.....Why don't we require all the rifles to feed and function from magazine....you know....since "tactical" "real world" rifles is the concept.....

Sincerely,
Theis

iceng · Feb 9, 2021

Look at formula1. It takes 27 people to make that car even move, and only one guy drives it. Team effort.

ELR is heading in this direction. Again, look at F1. Any small advantage, no matter how small, they will take.

A shooting team would be fools to not take advantage of anything they can. A little here, a bit there, it all adds up.

Personally, I shoot ELR for fun and don't post videos or talk about it publicly. All it does is get people salty and whinge about being "fake" or "multiple angles, show me your data, where did you shoot this, what was your dope" etc..

I still love watching these guys and see how they go about it.

ELR researcher · Feb 13, 2021

Geno C. said:
You put people on a time limit for a match. It would be stupid not to

Unclear whether you re asking a question or making a statement. There is no formal time limit in URSA, its the Match Director's call - if the MD perceives a problem. As best I know, we have never attempted to maintain a specific time limit. As Skketter noted, has not been an issue.

ELR researcher · Feb 13, 2021

THEIS said:
Hi,

So going on that principle....what are the ever increasing "limitations" for, lol?

Don't answer that, hahaha....was rhetorical.....I already know the answer.

Shit, I have an idea.....Why don't we require all the rifles to feed and function from magazine....you know....since "tactical" "real world" rifles is the concept.....

Sincerely,
Theis

As I've told many people, many times - from day one (pre-Ko2M), there is ELR and there is Tactical ELR. URSA is ELR and Ko2M is Tactical ELR. IMO, there is absolutely NO reason to limit ELR to Tactical ELR (i.e., shooting from a bipod, on your belly, and certainly not mag fed). I know of exactly no one that shoots ELR in competition that is shooting from a mag - even if the rifle is capable of feeding from a mag, shooting is done single feed.

Geno C. · Feb 13, 2021

ELR researcher said:
Unclear whether you re asking a question or making a statement. There is no formal time limit in URSA, its the Match Director's call - if the MD perceives a problem. As best I know, we have never attempted to maintain a specific time limit. As Skketter noted, has not been an issue.

That’s what I’m saying. If time becomes an issue; set a time limit. If time isn’t an issue then who cares

THEIS · Feb 13, 2021

ELR researcher said:
As I've told many people, many times - from day one (pre-Ko2M), there is ELR and there is Tactical ELR. URSA is ELR and Ko2M is Tactical ELR. IMO, there is absolutely NO reason to limit ELR to Tactical ELR (i.e., shooting from a bipod, on your belly, and certainly not mag fed). I know of exactly no one that shoots ELR in competition that is shooting from a mag - even if the rifle is capable of feeding from a mag, shooting is done single feed.

Hi,

Being I have been professionally involved in ELR since about 1998 I am pretty sure I know what people are doing and not doing, lolol....

Shit....we were doing ELR demos and training courses with SOE, LRBT, Cheytac and EDM Arms in Poland and Turkey before the Yuma radar data from the ORIGINAL 408CT cartridge was released publicly.

Clearly the sarcasm of that "suggestion" passed you by.

Funny that "entities" that could not even spell ELR 10 years ago, lol... act as if they invented it, know everything about it and attempt to control it....all because they seen money in its' expansion. lololol

ELR organizations need to go read the "Why we cannot have nice things" thread in the competition section....it is an absolute glimpse into their futures. (URSA is actually a step in the right direction though!)

Sincerely,
Theis

brianf · Feb 13, 2021

I know of 1 person

hoplite 300 Norma shot by @Dthomas3523

Bipod
Rear bag
Mag fed
Berger factory ammo
25 1/2” barrel ( needed a second chamber job)
2-3lb trigger (still had some creep before adjusted)
First time past 1000 with it
Didnt have Ammo chrono used box velocity
First 2 low 3rd on bottom of plate
Repainted

Then 7-10 at 1 mile.

24”x24” plate

Newbie2020 · Feb 13, 2021

It seems there’s a growing divergence between ELR and tactical ELR.

As more of us schmoes take conventional LR rifles in 6cm and 6.5cm to a mile and past a mile with, we’re inevitably going to want to stretch even further.

We’ll obviously need new equipment (Hoplite Aspis?...) and a longer range cartridge (300NM?...), but the tactical ELR sure seems an easy short step for a lot of LR shooters.

Newbie2020 · Feb 13, 2021

I guess my point is a Hoplite 300NM off a bipod and a rear bag seems to be the perfect platform poised for growth among typical rifle shooters looking for the next challenge, not the 50 lb 375-408-50 cal rifle on a sled.

hypertex · Feb 13, 2021

37xc is right in there too

THEIS · Feb 13, 2021

Hi,

Yes the 37xc is a nice "small" ELR system for those that do not want or need to shoot factory ammunition.

Sincerely,
Theis

brianf · Feb 13, 2021

Newbie2020 said:
I guess my point is a Hoplite 300NM off a bipod and a rear bag seems to be the perfect platform poised for growth among typical rifle shooters looking for the next challenge, not the 50 lb 375-408-50 cal rifle on a sled.

I’m close to the same opinion.

depending on your end goal , if you can’t do that or something like that with a 300 Norma (or like cartridge) buying a boomer isn’t going to help you get more hits.

might even be worse because it will cause even more hidden issues with fundamentals.

iceng · Feb 14, 2021

Bring back the 45-70 and iron sights I say.

DPLongRange · Mar 8, 2021

skkeeter said:
I can see weight restrictions in the larger more popular comps simply to keep matches moving along at a reasonable pace. Imagine if everyone had 50lb+ rifles to lug around to each stage. It simply wouldn't be fair half the time due to changing conditions, especially winds. Morning vs afternoon winds can be drastic. URSA has relatively small participation, ranging from 5-15 competitors at a time so its not as big of a deal when Lynn brings out his 80lb stick.

Basically it boils down to ego. A certain person on the FCSA from Spain or some shit wants the Ko2M to be a tacticool competition. It’s ludicrous but that’s what it is. I’m sure most Americans like being told what to do by a foreign National special sniper cool guy. (Sarcasm) not even sure why he is running the American Ko2M but ok. I’m thinking his ego gets in the way of a lot of his thinking. He was sniper so he wants everyone to shoot like that. Next he will have us helo dropped 2kilos out from the firing line and we have to hump in undetected to the starting line in full camo. Of course we all know Ko2M isn’t about being “sniper qualified” it’s the cutting edge of evolution of the long range shooting sports. We should be looking at all capabilities and equipment without limitations. This is how you push the envelope. It’s how America does it anyway. But whatever. The FSCA elected him so it’s his show to run

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