Osprey Barrel Works

bohem · Aug 21, 2021

Osprey Barrel Works is a new offering through Patriot Valley Arms. They barrels are 100% CNC produced from double stress relieved 416RR CReS (Stainless). Right now they're available in 22, 6mm, 6.5mm in the associated fast twists required for modern rifle bullets. As production increases there will be more calibers added to the list, likely in early 2022.

The project is a long term endeavor to bring more barrel production in house and vertically integrate more of the product line.

I've been pretty quiet on the forum about them for a while, even though we've been selling them for about 6 weeks. Approximately 70 are in shooters' hands at this point. We have gotten 1 big PRS match win, two local match wins, and numerous comments from those initial shooters and gunsmiths telling us how impressed they were with the first time out at the range.

Recently (last weekend) Aaron Hipp used PVA Seneca 6mm 95gr bullets and an Osprey Barrel Blank (installed by Alamo Precision) to win the PA-OH Border Wars Finale.

The barrels are top shelf, micro-honed, lapped, stainless barrels. The current production rate is ~200pcs a month and can expand as needed. They are available as contoured blanks as well as a full Prefit barrel. Each barrel blank is individually serialized for QA Tracking.

www.patriotvalleyarms.com

They are also available as part of the PVA Labor Day sale through 9/6/21
"TaxationIsTheft1787" for 17.87% off

Barrel Questions
Prefits & Contoured Blanks

Meister · Aug 21, 2021

Jump on these things. They flat work! I'm using PVA solids with great results.

Dewitt13 · Aug 21, 2021

I’ve been shooting one for a couple weeks now. I’m almost done breaking it in and am super impressed with the quality and accuracy. If you’re in the market for a barrel give one a try, you won’t regret it.

jeffbtripp · Aug 21, 2021

All I can say is having bought the first 6 mm blank this thing shoots like a freak of nature. 108 Hornady and 107 prime shoots the same. I got 3 more on order now.

Retail price is $325 blank, $650 prefit
Sale price right now is 17.87% off which drops the blank to about $267 and the prefit to $534

you can’t afford not to buy a few prefits at that price

pangelos · Aug 21, 2021

These barrels are legit! I ordered some from Josh and told him the first one I chambered would be for me cause I’m a firm believer in trying stuff before I sell it to others. I spun up a 6BR (26” proof competition contour) and the first thing I noticed was how crisp the rifling is. I use a long reach indicator and dial off the rifling and I’ve had a lot of barrels lately that I have been very disappointed in the consistently of the rifling which makes them very hard to dial in the osprey barrels are not the case! By far the most consistent barrel I’ve ever put in the lathe! I know shooters probably don’t care about that part but as a gunsmith it makes you believe all the effort I’m putting in is the same effort that is put into the barrel. Once I got to the range it proved it as well that barrel has shot anything I’ve put down it. Including factory lapua ammo that I’ve never gotten to shoot all that great out of anything else. I have a shoot next weekend and I am planning on really running it through the paces of a match.

***FULL DISCLAIMER*** I personally bought these barrels. Josh didn’t give them to me I approached him about purchasing the barrels and if they would’ve been crappy I would have said it. If you’re looking for a quality barrel to buy don’t hesitate at all to order an osprey barrel.

Stoweit · Aug 21, 2021

Impressive Barrels!

Schw15 · Aug 21, 2021

bohem said:
Osprey Barrel Works is a new offering through Patriot Valley Arms. They barrels are 100% CNC produced from double stress relieved 416RR CReS (Stainless). Right now they're available in 22, 6mm, 6.5mm in the associated fast twists required for modern rifle bullets. As production increases there will be more calibers added to the list, likely in early 2022.

The project is a long term endeavor to bring more barrel production in house and vertically integrate more of the product line.

I've been pretty quiet on the forum about them for a while, even though we've been selling them for about 6 weeks. Approximately 70 are in shooters' hands at this point. We have gotten 1 big PRS match win, two local match wins, and numerous comments from those initial shooters and gunsmiths telling us how impressed they were with the first time out at the range.

Recently (last weekend) Aaron Hipp used PVA Seneca 6mm 95gr bullets and an Osprey Barrel Blank (installed by Alamo Precision) to win the PA-OH Border Wars Finale.

The barrels are top shelf, micro-honed, lapped, stainless barrels. The current production rate is ~200pcs a month and can expand as needed. They are available as contoured blanks as well as a full Prefit barrel. Each barrel blank is individually serialized for QA Tracking.

www.patriotvalleyarms.com

They are also available as part of the PVA Labor Day sale through 9/6/21
"TaxationIsTheft1787" for 17.87% off

Barrel Questions
Prefits & Contoured Blanks

View attachment 7688816

View attachment 7688814 View attachment 7688815

Plans on 7mm or 30 cal barrels? Or only sticking with smaller cars

b6graham · Aug 21, 2021

will there ever be 29" blanks for 28" finish length?

bohem · Aug 22, 2021

Schw15 said:
Plans on 7mm or 30 cal barrels? Or only sticking with smaller cars

b6graham said:
will there ever be 29" blanks for 28" finish length?

Yes, but not immediately.
The start-up endeavor is pretty costly so the decision was made to tool for the 3 most popular sizes. Similarly the length was chosen that way too.
The first load of steel was cut for 27” blanks (200) because 26 or shorter comprises the vast majority of orders.
The sooner we move the barrels in a meaningful way the sooner more options are available.

bohem · Aug 22, 2021

Schw15 said:
Plans on 7mm or 30 cal barrels? Or only sticking with smaller cars

b6graham said:
will there ever be 29" blanks for 28" finish length?

Yes, but not immediately.
The start-up endeavor is pretty costly so the decision was made to tool for the 3 most popular sizes. Similarly the length was chosen that way too.
The first load of steel was cut for 27” blanks (200) because 26 or shorter comprises the vast majority of orders.
The sooner we move the barrels in a meaningful way the sooner more options are available.

Schw15 · Aug 22, 2021

bohem said:
Yes, but not immediately.
The start-up endeavor is pretty costly so the decision was made to tool for the 3 most popular sizes. Similarly the length was chosen that way too.
The first load of steel was cut for 27” blanks (200) because 26 or shorter comprises the vast majority of orders.
The sooner we move the barrels in a meaningful way the sooner more options are available.

Looking forward for longer blanks and those bigger cal barrels. Awesome glad you guys are able to keep expanding

celltech · Aug 22, 2021

So what's the deal with the Barrel Nut Prefits? I assume they are Rock Creek button pulled sticks? Look like quite a deal if they fit your needs...

bfk4lyfe · Aug 22, 2021

when are the 22 cals coming in?

Army First · Aug 22, 2021

When do the 7mm's arrive?
I have 2 PVA barrels, room for a 3rd

bohem · Aug 22, 2021

celltech said:
So what's the deal with the Barrel Nut Prefits? I assume they are Rock Creek button pulled sticks? Look like quite a deal if they fit your needs...

The lower cost barrel nut prefits are rock Creek buttons, still processed to my requirements but made from smaller diameter steel to save significant time in contouring and with a limited range of options to cut down involved costs

bfk4lyfe said:
when are the 22 cals coming in?

this week, the heat treat facility has some delays and they shipped back to us on Thursday

Army First said:
When do the 7mm's arrive?
I have 2 PVA barrels, room for a 3rd

As mentioned in the original post, more calibers come in early ‘22. 7/30

probably not 25 or fast twist 27 because there hasn’t been enough cash for them to validate the tooling expenditure yet.

LR1845 · Aug 22, 2021

@bohem Do you have a 1.25” 7 twist straight taper in stock?

bohem · Aug 23, 2021

LR1845 said:
@bohem Do you have a 1.25” 7 twist straight taper in stock?

We contour to order based on the contours we have listed on the website. I don't know what caliber you need though, 22, 6mm?

The website stock is accurate. Custom contours are POR.

Baddog 0302 · Aug 23, 2021

On your web site you list the Free Bore for your 22 cal. chamberings but not for the 6 & 6.5's ?
Can a specific FB be requested for a 6 or 6.5 chambering ?

Thank you

bohem · Aug 24, 2021

Baddog 0302 said:
On your web site you list the Free Bore for your 22 cal. chamberings but not for the 6 & 6.5's ?
Can a specific FB be requested for a 6 or 6.5 chambering ?

Thank you

Typically yes, unless you want something shorter than our standard reamers have in them. Custom throating has a surcharge.
For the Creedmoors I've done custom throating on occasion but to be perfectly honest, you don't need it. I've cut literally thousands of them, the freebores that I use in my reamers is specific after years of experience cutting them.

Kentucreed6 · Aug 29, 2021

I’ve ordered 2 of these in 7 twist .224 for a 223ai and 22BRA. With the Labor Day sale and the long wait from other barrel makers I’m going to give them a run.

jmsdad · Aug 29, 2021

@bohem

Looking at the 7twist .224 for a 223AI build.

Can you contour to the Lilja mod84m contour for a Kimber 84m action?

Wheres-Waldo · Aug 29, 2021

@bohem

Any plans to offer Ospreys in 1.25” straight prefits?

Gtscotty · Aug 30, 2021

I'm interested to try one of these. I'm curious if anyone has any insight into whether the 6-8 week lead time on the website means 6-8 weeks, or if it realistically means 12-16 weeks?

I know the plan is to order as far ahead of time as you can, but I'm building up a new Origin action, and no barrel = no shooting, so I'm trying to decide if I should pick up something off the shelf to shoot now and order one of these for later, or if the two month lead is likely accurate.

bohem · Aug 30, 2021

jmsdad said:
@bohem

Looking at the 7twist .224 for a 223AI build.

Can you contour to the Lilja mod84m contour for a Kimber 84m action?

I can but we're not going to do that on the sale pricing and there's going to be a surcharge for the contour.

bohem · Aug 30, 2021

Wheres-Waldo said:
@bohem

Any plans to offer Ospreys in 1.25” straight prefits?

Yes, you can order that contour if you want. For now, just put it in the notes when you order it and I'll catch it for contouring.

Gtscotty said:
I'm interested to try one of these. I'm curious if anyone has any insight into whether the 6-8 week lead time on the website means 6-8 weeks, or if it realistically means 12-16 weeks?

I know the plan is to order as far ahead of time as you can, but I'm building up a new Origin action, and no barrel = no shooting, so I'm trying to decide if I should pick up something off the shelf to shoot now and order one of these for later, or if the two month lead is likely accurate.

We offer a 2 week lead time guarantee with the Rush Service. If I miss the ship date, the rush fee is refunded. The timeline is based on orders placed before Noon on the day of order, next day if it's after noon.

As of right now we're 8 weeks on regular orders and I'm working hard to keep it there as some other OEM contracts just dropped in.

santee116 · Sep 1, 2021

Just snagged a blank for a 6mm build, thanks for the heads up on the sale! Will let you know how it shoots.

Baddog 0302 · Sep 2, 2021

IF ordered under the "Sales" time frame ,are the different twists that are listed as {Available on Custom Orders} still covered under the "sales" prices ??

Thank you

esbraunie1 · Sep 3, 2021

Bohem, can you please dm me. I’ve tried calling and sending email, no response. I need to speak to someone at PVA.
thankyou

Gtscotty · Sep 3, 2021

Got in on the sale thanks, although I wound up opting for one of the Rock Creek prefits in 6mm GT for my Origin.

bohem · Sep 6, 2021

Baddog 0302 said:
IF ordered under the "Sales" time frame ,are the different twists that are listed as {Available on Custom Orders} still covered under the "sales" prices ??

Thank you

No, custom ordered blanks are not available on sale. Nor can we guarantee a timeframe on the finished product because we need to order a 1-off barrel from Rock to fulfill the order.

santee116 said:
Just snagged a blank for a 6mm build, thanks for the heads up on the sale! Will let you know how it shoots.

Someone shooting Guardian this weekend placed Top10 with one

esbraunie1 said:
Bohem, can you please dm me. I’ve tried calling and sending email, no response. I need to speak to someone at PVA.
thankyou

Please give us a call tomorrow.

We got hit by the hurricane last week and spent all day Thursday amd part of Friday helping our shop neighbors clean up and move flooded out cars. Thankfully nothing significant here and PVA is back at it full steam. But if you’re waiting on communication anytime after lunchtime on Wednesday this is why.

RS14 · Sep 6, 2021

Picked up a 6gt osprey from PVA a couple weeks back for my AI.

Picked a low weight powder charge that would get me somewhat close to the velocity I wanted to run and started checking seating depth as this is my first 6mm and first time running this bullet(112 match burners). Found the seating depth that seemed to work and had less than 50 rounds through the barrel when my buddies talked me into shoot my next match with it. So I loaded 200 rounds on virgin brass and headed to the match(Guardian at Altus).

On Friday I ran 12 rounds through the barrel just to see if my estimated dope would work out for the match. Found a steel just under 1100yards on the new side of the range. Fired three rounds at that target and had a group that looked like a single impact from that distance on glass. Wish I could of went down range and measured it.

As for the match on Saturday. I managed to pull a 9th place finish. I only dropped 14 shots the entire match and every single one those was because of the trigger puller. As long as I did my job that barrel hammered. I definitely would have no concern ordering another osprey.

bohem · Sep 7, 2021

RS14 said:
Picked up a 6gt osprey from PVA a couple weeks back for my AI.

Picked a low weight powder charge that would get me somewhat close to the velocity I wanted to run and started checking seating depth as this is my first 6mm and first time running this bullet(112 match burners). Found the seating depth that seemed to work and had less than 50 rounds through the barrel when my buddies talked me into shoot my next match with it. So I loaded 200 rounds on virgin brass and headed to the match(Guardian at Altus).

On Friday I ran 12 rounds through the barrel just to see if my estimated dope would work out for the match. Found a steel just under 1100yards on the new side of the range. Fired three rounds at that target and had a group that looked like a single impact from that distance on glass. Wish I could of went down range and measured it.

As for the match on Saturday. I managed to pull a 9th place finish. I only dropped 14 shots the entire match and every single one those was because of the trigger puller. As long as I did my job that barrel hammered. I definitely would have no concern ordering another osprey.

Well done! That's excellent shooting. I'm really glad to hear they're working out for you.

Kentucreed6 · Sep 7, 2021

@bohem
I ordered a couple of the .224 blanks. It says pre order, what’s the time frame one those? Thanks

bohem · Sep 8, 2021

Kentucreed6 said:
@bohem
I ordered a couple of the .224 blanks. It says pre order, what’s the time frame one those? Thanks

I was contouring them today until I broke a part in the lathe that supports the barrels during the contour. The replacement parts should be here EOD tomorrow and we'll be back cutting contours by Friday morning at the latest I think. You should see shipping notification in the next few business days.

atomic41 · Sep 8, 2021

I didn't see this and missed the sale! Dangit! @bohem, will you be running another sale later? Black Friday maybe?

bohem · Sep 8, 2021

atomic41 said:
I didn't see this and missed the sale! Dangit! @bohem, will you be running another sale later? Black Friday maybe?

I try to do one for Black Friday. It will probably have different things in it, but Ospreys should be included unless something goes really awry.

RS14 · Sep 8, 2021

bohem said:
I try to do one for Black Friday. It will probably have different things in it, but Ospreys should be included unless something goes really awry.

Guess I need to save for another barrel for a backup.

Baddog 0302 · Sep 20, 2021

bohem said:
I try to do one for Black Friday. It will probably have different things in it, but Ospreys should be included unless something goes really awry.

I WAS like RS14, considering another Bbl. BUT when I can't get a straight answer from a gunsmith/machinist that is supposed to deal in specifics, then I have to wonder. "A NO TURN NECK is not a specific answer to my question, "what is the OD of the neck on your 22 BR reamer / or what is the ID of the neck on your 22 BR chamber"

S3th · Sep 20, 2021

Baddog 0302 said:
I WAS like RS14, considering another Bbl. BUT when I can't get a straight answer from a gunsmith/machinist that is supposed to deal in specifics, then I have to wonder. "A NO TURN NECK is not a specific answer to my question, "what is the OD of the neck on your 22 BR reamer / or what is the ID of the neck on your 22 BR chamber"

Josh only told me the OD of the 22BR reamer after I had placed my order so I share your contention. However, Josh has his reasons, which he explained; "history of people asking for specifics then run off to their gunsmith and give him prints that he couldn't figure out how to define." I am not a machinist or gunsmith, so I can't argue his perspective. I will share that the OD is a few thousand larger than what I would've preferred but I haven't thought about/worried about it since.

Baddog 0302 · Sep 20, 2021

I will share that the OD is a few thousand larger than what I would've preferred but I haven't thought about/worried about it since.
Well, you don't have to worry about turning necks, but how is $1.00 / case, case life ?
And not telling you the neck OD till after you drop $ + 600.00 goes my rule # 2 which is" make sure the screwing you get , it worth the screwing you get" Or, make sure that what you get, is worth what you have to give for it.
Also, there are plenty of gunsmiths that will send you a copy of their reamers data sheet.

S3th · Sep 20, 2021

Baddog 0302 said:
I will share that the OD is a few thousand larger than what I would've preferred but I haven't thought about/worried about it since.
Well, you don't have to worry about turning necks, but how is $1.00 / case, case life ?
And not telling you the neck OD till after you drop $ + 600.00 goes my rule # 2 which is" make sure the screwing you get , it worth the screwing you get" Or, make sure that what you get, is worth what you have to give for it.
Also, there are plenty of gunsmiths that will send you a copy of their reamers data sheet.

I'm confident I will experience case head separation well before I experience any neck failures.

spife7980 · Sep 20, 2021

Baddog 0302 said:
Also, there are plenty of gunsmiths that will send you a copy of their reamers data sheet.

Then go to one of them if youre that worked up about it?

Schw15 · Sep 20, 2021

Baddog 0302 said:
I will share that the OD is a few thousand larger than what I would've preferred but I haven't thought about/worried about it since.
Well, you don't have to worry about turning necks, but how is $1.00 / case, case life ?
And not telling you the neck OD till after you drop $ + 600.00 goes my rule # 2 which is" make sure the screwing you get , it worth the screwing you get" Or, make sure that what you get, is worth what you have to give for it.
Also, there are plenty of gunsmiths that will send you a copy of their reamers data sheet.

I'm sure if you call him he would let you know what it measures on reamer for a heads up. I've delt with Josh a few times he's helpful even helped me on a barrel that wasn't even his he didn't do any work on it. Idk if he will now blasting him on here but worth a shot

BLKWLFK9 · Sep 20, 2021

Reamer dimensions are one of the most important keys to accuracy and when you live in a world where there are tons of gunsmiths all competing for business, YOUR level of accuracy as a gunsmith may be what gets you someone's business over the next gunsmith. When a smith has their own proprietary reamer dimensions, they probably dont want that open source so that Johnny Come Lately gunsmith doesn't reap the rewards of your hard work, time, and knowledge. This is not a new concept nor is it hard to understand.

RS14 · Sep 20, 2021

6 rounds today at 100 yards with my osprey barrel in 6 gt. Shooting 112mb
Cold gun cold shooter. No complaints on my barrel.

esbraunie1 · Sep 20, 2021

RS14 said:
6 rounds today at 100 yards with my osprey barrel in 6 gt. Shooting 112mb
Cold gun cold shooter. No complaints on my barrel.

Very nice

jzerfoss · Sep 22, 2021

BLKWLFK9 said:
Reamer dimensions are one of the most important keys to accuracy and when you live in a world where there are tons of gunsmiths all competing for business, YOUR level of accuracy as a gunsmith may be what gets you someone's business over the next gunsmith. When a smith has their own proprietary reamer dimensions, they probably dont want that open source so that Johnny Come Lately gunsmith doesn't reap the rewards of your hard work, time, and knowledge. This is not a new concept nor is it hard to understand.

I definitely disagree with this on multiple levels. While reamer dimensions are important out of the dozens of barrels I gone through some of the most accurate have been saami spec chambers. While tight/"match" chambers have caused me the most reliability and accuracy issues. If you are getting a barrel chambered in an unpopular or wildcat cartridge it's extremely important to know your chamber/reamer dimensions for many reasons.

If a gunsmith won't give important reamer dimensions like neck diameter, body diameter at .200, freebore, etc. that comes across very shady. Probably too lazy to find or lost the print, ordered a "special" that they are too cheap to replace, or are pretending to have something special that is probably dimensions that the reamer manufacturer will give anyone buying a reamer. I've learned a good bit from ordering reamers with less than desirable dimensions and I will freely help and give any information I have to help someone especially if I was chambering a barrel for a barrel for them.

There are plenty of great smiths that aren't hiding a thing and are super helpful. I'd definitely stick with those.

Ledzep · Sep 22, 2021

There's nothing magic about reamer dimensions. You want diameter clearance for the case to expand, enough freebore diameter vs. length to allow the bullet (with some reasonable runout) to fit without interference or too much room, and a 1.5 degree lead.

Hidden/proprietary dimensions are retarded because they're 1 cerosafe application away from being public knowledge.

bohem · Sep 27, 2021

Ledzep said:
There's nothing magic about reamer dimensions. You want diameter clearance for the case to expand, enough freebore diameter vs. length to allow the bullet (with some reasonable runout) to fit without interference or too much room, and a 1.5 degree lead.

Hidden/proprietary dimensions are retarded because they're 1 cerosafe application away from being public knowledge.

jzerfoss said:
I definitely disagree with this on multiple levels. While reamer dimensions are important out of the dozens of barrels I gone through some of the most accurate have been saami spec chambers. While tight/"match" chambers have caused me the most reliability and accuracy issues. If you are getting a barrel chambered in an unpopular or wildcat cartridge it's extremely important to know your chamber/reamer dimensions for many reasons.

If a gunsmith won't give important reamer dimensions like neck diameter, body diameter at .200, freebore, etc. that comes across very shady. Probably too lazy to find or lost the print, ordered a "special" that they are too cheap to replace, or are pretending to have something special that is probably dimensions that the reamer manufacturer will give anyone buying a reamer. I've learned a good bit from ordering reamers with less than desirable dimensions and I will freely help and give any information I have to help someone especially if I was chambering a barrel for a barrel for them.

There are plenty of great smiths that aren't hiding a thing and are super helpful. I'd definitely stick with those.

Hiding and lazy?? Or not willing to publish a reamer print specifically because we get "I want to use your chamber for <insert the wildcat name> but I want my gunsmith to do it" It's exactly what @BLKWLFK9 said above: people want to use someone in particular who doesn't have the experience or knowledge base for that wildcat so they ask me to hand them information for free knowing full well they're not going to contribute anything to the effort and costs that went into gathering that data. I know that "tight" and "match" chambers are full of issues. Figuring out what needs to change and what doesn't from SAAMI is a critical skill for custom rifle makers. Publishing that information and data is free education for your business competitors.

OK, have your gunsmith figure out how to make a 22BRA with the appropriate throat and neck dimensions that it runs well for a full PRS match weekend, plus zero day without generating a carbon ring in 300 rounds, not overworking/splitting necks, not blowing out case webs, avoiding feeding issues from chambers that are too straight/improved... Have that gunsmith buy a box of each different 6mm BR brass on the market, slice it and check sizing trends. Check the neck thicknesses and buy a bunch of the bullets that people MIGHT want to shoot in the case and measure those.

Then get on the internet and take that data gathered from several hundred dollars, closer to $1000 worth of stuff, and half a day's time and publish it for free. Specifically so someone on the internet doesn't say "you're lazy and hiding stuff" If it's so easy to get the data then get the data yourself. But it's not or the entire complaint would be moot...

I spent thousands of dollars in ammo developing reamers specifically for popular ammo choices within the 6 Creed, and 6.5 Creed, and 308 Win market. The PRIME website had numerous posts from customers bragging about how good their PVA prefit shoots PRIME ammo. I got numerous calls from gunsmiths asking for the print. Usually for free but some were willing to pay "a nominal fee".

Why? If the information is so easy to get themselves, why offer to buy the print? Because the performance sold product. That work wasn't free to do, why should I give it away?

People call and ask me what speeds and feeds I am running on reamers, what's my setup look like on my CNC's to cut barrels the way I do, what does my setup and programming look like to contour barrels on a TL1? I am supposed to give that away for free too? Maybe Speedy Gonzales' gunsmithing class DVD's should be free?

Where does it end? The techniques aren't patentable, so how do you protect them? Don't talk about it, don't publish it, don't give away the secrets.

Draw a 5 mile circle around my shop and there are at least 15 pizza places. I know 2 that are excellent, 3 that are decent and 1 that absolutely SUCKS. Nobody is sharing recipes with each other and if I walk in and say "Hey can I get your sauce recipe so I know you're making it right before I order" what do you think is going to happen?

Pepsi and Coke don't share recipes and those global companies have virtually unlimited assets to figure out what the other is selling... yet we have Pepsi and Coke with distinct flavors.

Too cheap to replace a reamer?
Too lazy to look it up?
Get real dude... my bill with the reamer grind shop last month was over 6 grand. We average 65k a year through the place that grinds my reamers. You're so far off base it's laughable.

It's not my job to educate and provide data to business competitors. Some of it we do supporting our products and services. Teaching people how to assemble a rifle from a box of parts is something that naturally comes from troubleshooting things that aren't shooting. There are a bunch of gunsmiths who offer a class on how to do basic armorer level work (swap a barrel, mount a scope, swap triggers) for products after they sell them to the customer... yet you're going to accuse me of being lazy or hiding something because don't publish reamer specifics on wildcats that people flat out tell me "I want your reamer print so my gunsmith can order one".

R_Swanson · Sep 27, 2021

bohem said:
Hiding and lazy?? Or not willing to publish a reamer print specifically because we get "I want to use your chamber for <insert the wildcat name> but I want my gunsmith to do it" It's exactly what @BLKWLFK9 said above: people want to use someone in particular who doesn't have the experience or knowledge base for that wildcat so they ask me to hand them information for free knowing full well they're not going to contribute anything to the effort and costs that went into gathering that data. I know that "tight" and "match" chambers are full of issues. Figuring out what needs to change and what doesn't from SAAMI is a critical skill for custom rifle makers. Publishing that information and data is free education for your business competitors.

OK, have your gunsmith figure out how to make a 22BRA with the appropriate throat and neck dimensions that it runs well for a full PRS match weekend, plus zero day without generating a carbon ring in 300 rounds, not overworking/splitting necks, not blowing out case webs, avoiding feeding issues from chambers that are too straight/improved... Have that gunsmith buy a box of each different 6mm BR brass on the market, slice it and check sizing trends. Check the neck thicknesses and buy a bunch of the bullets that people MIGHT want to shoot in the case and measure those.

Then get on the internet and take that data gathered from several hundred dollars, closer to $1000 worth of stuff, and half a day's time and publish it for free. Specifically so someone on the internet doesn't say "you're lazy and hiding stuff" If it's so easy to get the data then get the data yourself. But it's not or the entire complaint would be moot...

I spent thousands of dollars in ammo developing reamers specifically for popular ammo choices within the 6 Creed, and 6.5 Creed, and 308 Win market. The PRIME website had numerous posts from customers bragging about how good their PVA prefit shoots PRIME ammo. I got numerous calls from gunsmiths asking for the print. Usually for free but some were willing to pay "a nominal fee".

Why? If the information is so easy to get themselves, why offer to buy the print? Because the performance sold product. That work wasn't free to do, why should I give it away?

People call and ask me what speeds and feeds I am running on reamers, what's my setup look like on my CNC's to cut barrels the way I do, what does my setup and programming look like to contour barrels on a TL1? I am supposed to give that away for free too? Maybe Speedy Gonzales' gunsmithing class DVD's should be free?

Where does it end? The techniques aren't patentable, so how do you protect them? Don't talk about it, don't publish it, don't give away the secrets.

Too cheap to replace a reamer?
Too lazy to look it up?
Get a life dude... my bill with the reamer grind shop last month was over 6 grand. We average 65k a year through the place that grinds my reamers. You're so far off base it's laughable.

It's not my job to educate and provide data to business competitors. Some of it we do supporting our products and services. Teaching people how to assemble a rifle from a box of parts is something that naturally comes from troubleshooting things that aren't shooting. There are a bunch of gunsmiths who offer a class on how to do basic armorer level work (swap a barrel, mount a scope, swap triggers) for products after they sell them to the customer... yet you're going to accuse me of being lazy or hiding something because don't publish reamer specifics on wildcats that people flat out tell me "I want your reamer print so my gunsmith can order one".

Hey dude.

IDGAF about this debate in here - but I sent you an email 2 weeks ago with very basic questions about barrel turnaround times - would have taken 45 seconds to respond (also asked about 6mm CM reamer specs, I hadnt seen this thread so didnt know it was proprietary).

I followed up on it 3x. I never got a response. I bought a barrel from another manufacturer.

Your time might be better spent responding to potential paying customers.

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