Any SOT's ??

GetReal · Sep 1, 2021

So....by chance I have a good relationship with several local sheriff's CLEOs in my area.

I'd like to turn my hobby into a profit center supplying local law enforcement with firearms. So I'm thinking to get the SOT.

$500 / yr I believe.

Other than the form / application, the annual tax and likely some reporting requirements, what's involved? Office / storage site inspections? Local / Federal applicable law?

Good / bad experiences?

Thanx.

hollowoutadime · Sep 1, 2021

Following with similar interest. Interest in the F/A market.

tomcatmv · Sep 1, 2021

Maybe check in with Achmed's army/navy surplus store in Kabul. I hear they have a shit ton of products NIB.

GetReal · Sep 1, 2021

tomcatmv said:
Maybe check in with Achmed's army/navy surplus store in Kabul. I hear they have a shit ton of products NIB.

Like primers, gotta be quick. China gonna scoop all that stuff up.

chevy_man · Sep 1, 2021

ATF website has everything you need to know. Call your local field office if you need help.

It's not hard, the people that fuck it up seem to be incapable of proper paperwork.

THEIS · Sep 2, 2021

GetReal said:
I'd like to turn my hobby into a profit center supplying local law enforcement with firearms. So I'm thinking to get the SOT.

Hi,

Hate to be "Debbie Downer" in this situation but any agency that has the purchase volume to turn your hobby into a profit center will purchase direct from manufacturers.

They have no needs to go through the downstream cycle of manufacturer to distributor to dealer to them.

Then you run into the medium'ish size agencies that do not have the purchasing department to handle direct purchases from manufacturer but they damn sure have a legal/compliance/audit/budget department that monitors the "why" they chose to purchase from abc instead of jkl, etc etc and that legal department better not be able to find the same product for $1 less than what they paid you or for a 2 week longer payment term than you provided them.....for example.

Sincerely,
Theis

GetReal · Sep 2, 2021

THEIS said:
Hi,

Hate to be "Debbie Downer" in this situation but any agency that has the purchase volume to turn your hobby into a profit center will purchase direct from manufacturers.

Sincerely,
Theis

A fair point. Some context: My local PD's are smallish, unable to afford armorers. And the "profit" I seek is non-monetary.

THEIS · Sep 2, 2021

Hi,

IF they cannot even afford armorers then doubt they will be buying SOT firearms through you either; as they will more than likely rely on grants programs and reutilization of equipment programs.

Now if you want to get setup in the grant programs then that is another topic but once again..those typically fall to manufacturers directly.

IF you are just wanting to get a few post samples via "Love Letter" then have at it but that becomes an expense center that never ends, lol

Sincerely,
Theis

MK20 · Sep 2, 2021

If i understand it correctly, if you have a manufacturers license and SOT you can build your own MGs with no need for a sample letter. Just another option.

THEIS · Sep 2, 2021

MK20 said:
If i understand it correctly, if you have a manufacturers license and SOT you can build your own MGs with no need for a sample letter. Just another option.

Hi,

Sure can, just takes machines at that point, lol...

You will then need to register with DDTC since full autos are still controlled by DDTC so if you manufacture them you are required to have DDTC registration. Full autos fall under USML Sec 121 Category 1, subsection B.

Sincerely,
Theis

GetReal · Sep 2, 2021

THEIS said:
Hi,

IF you are just wanting to get a few post samples via "Love Letter" then have at it but that becomes an expense center that never ends, lol

Sincerely,
Theis

Plan is to have 3-4 post samples for inspection / marketing (semis already in house) and just go and ask. Minimal cost. Sales are a bonus.

Supporting local PD's is the focus. I'll never know unless I ask.

hlee · Sep 2, 2021

I read this as "I want to own post sample full autos and this is the only way I can. So, how do I get started making it look like I want to sell firearms to local LEO agencies when I really just want to own some rock and roll goodies?"

GetReal · Sep 2, 2021

hlee said:
I read this as "I want to own post sample full autos and this is the only way I can. So, how do I get started making it look like I want to sell firearms to local LEO agencies when I really just want to own some rock and roll goodies?"

Not entirely correct. Not entirely wrong.

SO long as its legal, my objectives are my business.

ma smith · Sep 2, 2021

GetReal said:
... And the "profit" I seek is non-monetary.

Ugh...

THEIS · Sep 2, 2021

Hi,

All I ask is that be sure to keep my contact information handy for when you get ready to surrender your SOT.
That way I can offer you a fair price for them so that you do not have to surrender them to BATFE with your SOT.
This is sounding more and more like 1 future audit away from problems since you are actually asking the internet "what's involved"....

Sincerely,
Theis

GetReal · Sep 2, 2021

THEIS said:
Hi,

All I ask is that be sure to keep my contact information handy for when you get ready to surrender your SOT.
That way I can offer you a fair price for them so that you do not have to surrender them to BATFE with your SOT.
This is sounding more and more like 1 future audit away from problems since you are actually asking the internet "what's involved"....

Sincerely,
Theis

Will do.

Don't disrespect yourself by calling yourself "the internet." Such a demeaning phrase.

You are so much more than that. You are intelligent and caring ..... as shown here.

I *am* smarter than to go to the media and politicians for virus control, gender determinants, or firearms information. I'll be fine. Thanx. Don't worry your pretty little head.

hollowoutadime · Sep 2, 2021

You do need to "be in the business of" selling firearms (as to just collecting) - you probably know that which is where/what I am looking into myself.
See sturmgewehr.com - a fair amount of information/dealers there. it's relatively big money to be in the game.- see pre86/post 86 transferable and C&R prices. There are some people giving up their SOTs, and as such selling off their SOT inventory.

GetReal · Sep 2, 2021

hollowoutadime said:
You do need to "be in the business of" selling firearms (as to just collecting) - you probably know that which is where/what I am looking into myself.
See sturmgewehr.com - a fair amount of information/dealers there. it's relatively big money to be in the game.- see pre86/post 86 transferable and C&R prices. There are some people giving up their SOTs, and as such selling off their SOT inventory.

Thanx. In the learning / exploring phase now. Your info is helpful.

roostercogburn98 · Sep 2, 2021

Wouldn’t a law enforcement agency have to commit to buying from you to give you a “law letter”? I mean if that wasn’t the case, every tom, dick, and harry could get one and purchase law letter items? If my dumbass understands correctly, there is a difference between post 86 dealer samples and post 86 dealer samples that require a law letter, but I could be mistaken. Someone please feel free to clarify for me.

hollowoutadime · Sep 2, 2021

(SOLD) M16 - $2400 shipped No Law Letter.
That's probably ~$30K if it was transferable.

So I suppose realistically you are renting it as you cannot transfer it to your personal collection.

WTS NO LAW LETTER POST SAMPLE M16

This Post-86 Dealer Sample machine gun is being sold as a no law letter gun as we will not be renewing our ffl or sot come July 1st. As per ATF § 479.105 (f), a MANUFACTURER or IMPORTER FFL with a valid and current SOT may take possession of this machine gun WITHOUT the need for a law enforcement...

www.sturmgewehr.com

THEIS · Sep 2, 2021

Hi,

@roostercogburn98
I will send you a PM with explanations but there is absolutely a reason so many SOT's get surrendered every month, lol.

They think they are going to be the cool kids with weapons that make all the LEO's friendly to them, hahaha.

A post sample firearm is literally never owned at all by the SOT holder.

Sincerely,
Theis

THEIS · Sep 2, 2021

GetReal said:
I *am* smarter than to go to the media and politicians for virus control, gender determinants, or firearms information. I'll be fine. Thanx. Don't worry your pretty little head.

Hi,

LOLOLOL, luckily I am not worried about a single thing as I am not the one seeking SOT advice from strangers on a forum in attempts to get nonmonetary profit from small town law enforcement agencies/officers.

Of the replies that have been posted...please raise your hand if you have a SOT, haha.......

Sincerely,
Theis

Bender · Sep 2, 2021

Is this still available?

jrhtx · Sep 2, 2021

GetReal said:
I *am* smarter than to go to the media and politicians for virus control, gender determinants, or firearms information. I'll be fine. Thanx. Don't worry your pretty little head.

I can't wait until you go through your first compliance inspection. 2/3 people that don't know the rules and regulations on NFA. It will be epic!

AngryKoala · Sep 2, 2021

THEIS said:
Hi,

All I ask is that be sure to keep my contact information handy for when you get ready to surrender your SOT.
That way I can offer you a fair price for them so that you do not have to surrender them to BATFE with your SOT.
This is sounding more and more like 1 future audit away from problems since you are actually asking the internet "what's involved"....

Sincerely,
Theis

It's so hard to do just an FFL/SOT these days as the only business. Too much saturation brick and mortar/online. Margins are going down, demand is decreasing somewhat etc. Pushed me away from it. A niche is definitely needed in order to compete (Range, training center etc).

OP, you should always assume anything you post online is monitored.

hlee · Sep 2, 2021

AngryKoala said:
It's so hard to do just an FFL/SOT these days as the only business. Too much saturation brick and mortar/online. Margins are going down, demand is decreasing somewhat etc. Pushed me away from it. A niche is definitely needed in order to compete (Range, training center etc).

OP, you should always assume anything you post online is monitored.

20 years ago I was talking to Red from Red's Indoor Range in Austin. Even then, guns/ammo/accessories were the side business. The indoor range kept the lights on and paid salaries. Hard to believe, but those were his words.

AngryKoala · Sep 2, 2021

hlee said:
20 years ago I was talking to Red from Red's Indoor Range in Austin. Even then, guns/ammo/accessories were the side business. The indoor range kept the lights on and paid salaries. Hard to believe, but those were his words.

I looked into it pretty hard. It sounded great until you start digging into the numbers and trying to map out a business plan. He is correct. Even a fair amount of established FFL's have had to add a plethora of classes and other items in order to have other avenues of cash flow.

TxLabRat · Sep 2, 2021

I've been a SOT on and off since the early 80s. Yeah I'm that old. Don't forget that you'll need an FFL which comes with a small fee and compliance inspections at least every three years. You'll need a place of business but your home might do. Need to have all the posters placards etc posted at the premises along with child locks, A&D book (I still like pen and ink), alarm system (kinda optional), safe and have all the pertinent laws at least bookmarked for reference. Like anyone, most of the IOIs are great people and some are real assholes that would love to take your license, throw your ass in jail or however there feeling on a particular day.
Now to add the SOT, you need to drop the $500 annually and it runs from July to July. Any post samples are kinda a lifetime commitment as you have to pay the $500 every year or get rid of it before your SOT expires. So at this point, you're over a grand and haven't bought a firearm.
Just trying to point out that you will have thousands in this before you're ready to make a sale. And then you have one NFA firearm but you'll probably need or want more. I don't think I ever really turned a profit but it's been a lot of fun. Just make sure you're the type that likes to follow the rules cuz things could get pretty sideways if you don't.
Enough with the negative stuff though. In the early 80s I was buying transferable M16A2s drop shipped from Colt for $765 TOTAL! They're 25-30 kilobucks now. I bought a RIA M60 brand new for $1995 and sold it a few months back for $42k.
I say go for it but do it for fun and don't expect a lot businesswise.

armorpl8chikn · Sep 2, 2021

Not today Mr Soup, not today.

GetReal · Sep 3, 2021

@TxLabRat ...thanx. helpful detailed info.

And yes.... its not intended to make a living. Its for "fun" (loosely defined) Its really more about developing relationships with local LEO's Given today's hatred of law enforcement and all the "defund" crap.... etc Its not even really about owning full auto. I sold two of mine in the last 2 years. And another one about 5 years ago

That may seem like a weird objective...but its mine.

I'm the kinda guy that refuses to buy Hornady rifle bullets as Bergers are a tiny bit better, even tho alot more expensive. Money is way down on my list of motivations. I'm FAR from rich. And certainly not rich enuf to waste money on crappy bullets.

I guess I'm just wired differently. And not in a way I expect other ppl to be. Or even understand.

Holliday · Sep 3, 2021

GetReal said:
I'm the kinda guy that refuses to buy Hornady rifle bullets as Bergers are a tiny bit better, even tho alot more expensive. Money is way down on my list of motivations.

Yea I used to feel that way but during this economic turmoil, Hornady is putting out like a biker chick on Friday night and Berger is candy-assing us like a hot chick riding in your limo that you have been spending major cash on all day.

Californio · Sep 3, 2021

Governments are slow pay consider your account receivables to be aged six months before getting paid, more small businesses get crushed by government slow pay antics, it's not net30.

GetReal · Sep 3, 2021

Californio said:
Governments are slow pay consider your account receivables to be aged six months before getting paid, more small businesses get crushed by government slow pay antics, it's not net30.

That's a relevant consideration. Thanx.

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