Rifle Scopes ‘Beginnerish’ Precision Scope

[DocOnes6005]

Hi,
I have a lot of respect for these forums, but this is my first reason to post. I would like your pointed advice on which scope to buy. I need a ‘BEGINERISH’ scope for entry into & learning precision shooting.

I was a designated marksman in the Army and governors 20 shooter. I have minimal other experience with precision shooting. I have extensive experience in 3 gun and with scopes under 6x. I am very analytical, math and logic driven.

I just built a custom .224V on a 20” Rock Creek gain twist barrel by Craddock Precision. About 3k in parts so far. As of yesterday, it’s velocity is 1860 FPS. It will be used for plinking / competition target steel to 1000 yds. (It will be my go to hunting rifle, but I have a 6x for that and max of 400 yd)

I also recently purchased a Bergara in 6.5cm for PRS production class.

I plan on using the scope for both as I gain experience in precision shooting. I would rather have a the best scope for my purposes, than try to stay under $2k MSRP to qualify for production class in PRS.

For now, my money will go into the best scope that can be moved between the rifles. I’ll branch out later as I get more experience.

I’m mostly shooting in Daylight but Lowlight capability and illumination is a must. Many targets I shoot are on a wooded background and need basic, but not ultra bright illum (think Vortex Viper PST bright).

Distances will be a max of 1200. 90% of shooting will be between 400-800 yd.

Must be FFP, Christmas tree style reticle, mil/mil.

My budget is $2300. But, I am looking for the best value until I learn more about my preferences.

I am open to 3-18 mag. I’m concerned about a scope with very high ends because I won’t be shooting over 1200 and don’t think I’ll use much more than 20x, but others with more PRS / long range experience on steel will know better.

I will spend more / preference for shorter, under 35 oz.

Currently I don’t care about objective size or tube diameter as long as it gets the job done.

Athlon Cronus BTR 4.5-29x which would cost $1700 but qualifies for PRS production class. I like the features and capability for the price. I wonder if I’d be sacrificing with this brand compared to other choices.

Vortex Razor HD2 which I can get for $1700-$1800. Either 3-18 or 4-27. Does not qualify for PRS PC. I like Vortex and this scope has the best following / resale for the price I can get it at. Heaviest & longest of the options I know, which makes me doubt their best for my AR 224V.

Vortex Razor Gen 1 5-20x. I can get it for $1100. Qualifies for PRS PC. Again, it’s long for an AR, but otherwise capable for my purpose. Some of its mechanical features are outdated and make me wonder if I shouldn’t look for more updated models that will help me learn / adjust faster. I also wouldn’t be able to reuse the scope mount on my next purchase because it’s 35mm.

Bushnell DMR2-i w/ G2 3.5-21. I can get it for $1200. I like it’s length/weight, magnification range, and price. I’ve read a lot of polarized views, but I can purchase it for less than when people compare it to a $1700 price class.

EOTech VUDU 5-25x. $2150. I can get it now, but it’s the most expensive I’m currently considering. It’s very updated and I have a feeling that it will be the most versatile. However, I don’t know if it’s the best value for me.

I’ve also considered the Vortex 5-25 Viper PST GEN 2. It’ll cost $800 and decent length & weight while qualifying for PRS PC. Maybe the best option while I learn, but I don’t want to be hindered by glass clarity or definition.

I’ve also looked at the Sig tango 6 line, but I would pay regular street price which lines up with the Vortex Rzr HD2. They don’t qualify for PRS PC. So I don’t think their MY top pick.

If I’m missing a good option let me know. Otherwise, please help me select the best scope for me.

 

[Skok3y]

There are many people on here to give you better comparisons than I, but I can tell you that you don’t have to pay $1700 for a Cronus BTR. I have been quoted $1425 for it. To me, that makes it a much better deal when trying to compare it to other similar scopes.

 

[pineoak]

I own a G2R, and used the G1R so I'll discuss those.

If you're going to take the weight of the Razor2, get the 4.5-27x

Skip the Gen1 razor.

 

[pineoak]

Also consider getting a SWFA 10x rear focus scope.

Tax day (mid April) sale should get it to $275 or better for it. It'll hold value pretty well.

Not the best for past 800, but an easy cheap way to get a scope and buy time

alternative is the GA Precision LRHS option

 

[DocOnes6005]

I own a G2R, and used the G1R so I'll discuss those.

If you're going to take the weight of the Razor2, get the 4.5-27x

Skip the Gen1 razor.

Thank you

 

[Rate_of_Twist]

I just purchased a Schmidt & Bender PMII 5-25×56 P4L fine Mrad CCW for less than your budget of $2300. (Yup, re read your post... this doesnt apply sorry )

That's not advice, i have never had a "real" optic before so I cant weigh in on practical experience.

Out of your list, I was very very close to pulling the trigger on a Cronus BTR for under $1500.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Pick up a used Gen II, AMG, ATACR, or S&B for the PX here.

You mentioned “while you figure your preferences out.”

These will all hold their value if something else catches your eye.

For what you described you want, and switching between rifles you may hunt with, the AMG is a good choice.

 

[fdkay]

If you want to qualify for production class, you must keep it under the 2000 MSRP for PRS, the eliminates the Gen 2 Vortex.
I think you'll want to stick with LOW made scopes, as the glass is typically noticeably better than the Philippine made scopes and you won't regret spending the extra couple of hundred dollars.
That means the sightmark Pinnacle, with an msrp of 1800, but retails closer to 1400, the primary arms platinum (although I am no fan of the reticle) and the Cronus.
The Bushnell DMR II is also a LOW made scope and gets excellent reviews.
I have an LRTSi 4.5-18. It is a dandy scope, but you may want just a bit more magnification for PRS.
All of the above scopes have a zero stop, one that doesn't, but is still an excellent scope and well within your price bracket is the SWFA SS 5-20.

 

[Lionsbreath]

Welcome, I’m fairly new here too, and still learning from all these guys.. take a good look at a Steiner T5Xi I just bought a 5-25 and it is an awesome piece of kit- I paid $1599 for it- Doug @cameraland is your man

 

[koshkin]

First a couple of comments on available scopes: you should add Leupold Mark 5HD to your list if you are OK with TMR or Horus reticles.

EOTech Vudu 5-25x50, while a very competent design on paper, is not out yet so it is a bit of an unknown at this stage.

Honestly, given that you are able to get really good prices on Vortex stuff, I wonder if you should consider getting a PST Gen 2 3-15x44 for your gas gun and 5-25x50 for the bolt gun. When going between different scopes, the things that trips you the most is reticle and rotation direction with different controls. In this case, you have everything the same going from scope to scope. Some line thicknesses are a little different, but all the important stuff is the same. That way you do not have to mess with moving the scope around, re-setting zerostop, etc.

I have been looking at these two exact scopes for a little while now and they are really quite good. Both track well and optically are notably better than I expected, especially the 3-15x44. I do not think you will be hindered by image quality with these at all. This way, you stay within Production price limits and within your weight and price budget.

Aside from that, while I know I sound like a broken record, give some thought to the reticles. I like Vortex's EBR-2C and Athlon's reticle in the Cronus. Sig's DevL is good. Horus is not my thing, but that is a personal choice.

I am really impressed with Delta Stryker HD 4.5-30x56 that I have been testing, but they are a little trickier to get in the US. Good reticle and good scope (the design is related to Athlon's Cronus). I spent my last outing with it, testing tracking with 338LM. Max I could do with the target size was 17mrad and the Stryker was just perfect within 17 mrad (that turned out to be a pretty freaking expensive test).

Aside from that, I think that given its configuration, size and weight, Leupold Mark-5HD 3.6-18x44 might be the best scope on the market for a precision gas gun. I am going to try to change mine to David Tubb's DTR reticle since H59 is not doing it for me, but I stress that it is a personal preference. Overall, the Mark 5 has been just excellent so far (I am testing it on an accurate 6.5Grendel AR, so it would work well for 224V too). The magnification range is flexible enough, where you could use it for just about everything in a pinch.

ILya

 

[Dthomas3523]

Koshkin,

Have you heard any feedback on Leupold's CCH reticle?

 

[koshkin]

Koshkin,

Have you heard any feedback on Leupold's CCH reticle?

I've seen it. To me, it is a Horus reticle without a Horus licensing fee. People who like Horus will like it.

ILya

 

[Winchester59]

fdkay, not to hijack the thread, but what is a "LOW made scope"?

 

[Velocity Chad]

fdkay, not to hijack the thread, but what is a "LOW made scope"?

Light optical works. It's a well respected factory in Japan.

 

[DocOnes6005]

Thank you ILya!

I can’t do the Leupold because the Christmas reticles don’t have illumination. I have tried shooting at some of the local ranges and competitions and I can rarely find the reticle quickly without illum. 2 of the 3 I frequent are surrounded by dense trees and backlit. One of them is a PRS circuit match. Without illum the reticle often gets lost against the shaded background, creating slower transitions. Granted, this is my 3 gun experience, but I know it’s my weakness and would rather avoid it. Otherwise I probably would choose the Leupold.

Hearing you recommend the Vortex 3-15 / 5-25 is quite convincing. I’ve considered that myself.

I’d also considered the Tango 4 6-24 and buying the March 1-10 scope for normal use on my .224V and only changing if I go to an actual PRS Gas Gun match.

I love the March 1-10 and did well with it last season, when I borrowed one from an injured friend ?

 

[Mudlol]

If you are going to get into PRS buy the best scope you can afford and a few hundred bucks. In year or two you will happier with the purchase. Trust me it’s a lot easier then trying figure how much you can sell your used optic so you can upgrade.

 

[koshkin]

Thank you ILya!

I can’t do the Leupold because the Christmas reticles don’t have illumination. I have tried shooting at some of the local ranges and competitions and I can rarely find the reticle quickly without illum. 2 of the 3 I frequent are surrounded by dense trees and backlit. One of them is a PRS circuit match. Without illum the reticle often gets lost against the shaded background, creating slower transitions. Granted, this is my 3 gun experience, but I know it’s my weakness and would rather avoid it. Otherwise I probably would choose the Leupold.

Hearing you recommend the Vortex 3-15 / 5-25 is quite convincing. I’ve considered that myself.

I’d also considered the Tango 4 6-24 and buying the March 1-10 scope for normal use on my .224V and only changing if I go to an actual PRS Gas Gun match.

I love the March 1-10 and did well with it last season, when I borrowed one from an injured friend ?

I am looking at the Tango6 4-24x50 right now and while I like a lot of things about this scope, for this amount of money and this weight, I would probably just go with Razor Gen 2 4.5-27x56 or add a little more cash and step up to the AMG 6-24x50 which I like even more overall.

The AMG would also be light enough to do OK on your AR, although it is pretty long.

ILya

 

[Downtown]

To some of the respondents, remember it's not a question of the best scope he can afford. He is limited to a scope value set by the rules of Production class.

 

[Kremvh]

This is an extremely timely thread. I’m in the same position with a 16” 308 AR and a RPR in 6.5 Creedmoor.

I bought a Razor 5-20 MRAD for the RPR, but wish I’d spent the money on something different since the Razor overwhelms the AR with its length and weight. Likely going to get an AMG for the two guns to share since I stick with 308 70% of the time.

What we really need is a 3-15/3-18/4-16 AMG with the EBR-7. I’d buy it instantly.

 

[wahootwo]

Take a look at Sightron. Great glass on a budget.

 

[koshkin]

This is an extremely timely thread. I’m in the same position with a 16” 308 AR and a RPR in 6.5 Creedmoor.

I bought a Razor 5-20 MRAD for the RPR, but wish I’d spent the money on something different since the Razor overwhelms the AR with its length and weight. Likely going to get an AMG for the two guns to share since I stick with 308 70% of the time.

What we really need is a 3-15/3-18/4-16 AMG with the EBR-7. I’d buy it instantly.

While I agree that Vortex should make such a version of the AMG, there is no shortage of good quality 3-15x or similar scopes. As I have been saying, anyone looking in this range, should really consider PST Gen 2 3-15x44. It is an exceedingly nice design that punches well above its weight class.

ILya

 

[Kremvh]

While I agree that Vortex should make such a version of the AMG, there is no shortage of good quality 3-15x or similar scopes. As I have been saying, anyone looking in this range, should really consider PST Gen 2 3-15x44. It is an exceedingly nice design that punches well above its weight class.

ILya

You’re like the voice in my head. It keeps telling me to stop being a snob and a PST II is a good fit for the 308.

I’ve considered an ATACR 4-16 Mil-C but that’s getting pretty expensive.

 

[koshkin]

You’re like the voice in my head. It keeps telling me to stop being a snob and a PST II is a good fit for the 308.

I’ve considered an ATACR 4-16 Mil-C but that’s getting pretty expensive.

Usually, I am the snob. However, the stuff at around the $1k to $1.5k mark is getting really good.

ILya

 

[isaacspoon]

I am awaiting my 224 valkyrie in gain twist rock creek barrel from craddock precision as well! I initially went to buy a bartlein barrel and saw that they point poeple to craddock precision. I am in the process of trying to find a decent optic to fit my needs. So far I have decided on the primary arms platinum r-grid reticle they plan to release later this year. THAT BEING SAID, I would gladly buy a basic r-grid right this moment if I could find one available! I can't find a gen1 used anywhere!

I have come to the conclusion that I want a christmas tree reticle to better aid in hold overs

I decided maybe I should just go for gold and spend the money between1-2k on a decent optic. I will be closely following this thread as it seems to closely align with the stage I am on as well.

 

[Dthomas3523]

AMG on a gas gun. It’s a bit long, but the weight is very good.

 

[Chasing3]

Usually, I am the snob. However, the stuff at around the $1k to $1.5k mark is getting really good.

ILya

Is the PST II durable or feel fragile?

 

[sprinter]

AMG on a gas gun. It’s a bit long, but the weight is very good.

View attachment 6893234

What mount are you using there, I can't quite tell? I'm considering the same scope for my precision AR with the same stock.

 

[Wildcat0313]

If you're wanting to look at the Tango 6 more look through Quantico Tactical. They offer LE/Mil pricing.

 

[Dthomas3523]

What mount are you using there, I can't quite tell? I'm considering the same scope for my precision AR with the same stock.

In that particular pic, its a UTG low profile riser mount (surprisingly great for something like UTG) and seekins/vortex rings. In about a week or so, it will be a Larue cantilever riser rail and Spuhr mount. The scope goes between gas and bolt guns, so I don't use a centilever mount on it. I'll get a pic up as soon as its complete.

UTG rail comes in zero and 20moa, has 3 square lugs. I typically don't use leaper/utg stuff, but this one is legit.

https://www.leapers.com/index.php?act=prod_detail&itemno=MT-RSX5L&midx=1366&allids=1364_1363_1366