Rifle Scopes 1-8x FFP options

[rtpguy]

There seems to be a dearth of these, although it's nice NF has just announced two options. And ok - maybe not a dearth as I write them all down, but - still looking.

Not intending to debate the merits of exactly when FFP becomes useful (e.g. I'd agree zero value in a 1-4, debatable in 1-6 as well), but wondering if I'm missing any here?
1. Burris XTR-2 - but BDC reticle only. $1100-ish
2. Bushnell ET SRMS 1-8.5 - $1600 which seems a bit on the 'proud' side, and I can't quite sort wtf their reticle is doing horizontally. Also marginal in bright light visibility.
3. Trijicon Accupower 1-8x - ~$1200. seems to be marginal daylight visibility and possibly turret zero issues - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebLVQgB_QBM
4. Primary Arms Platinum 1-8x mil reticle - $1300, made in Japan. Reticle OK, mil/mil w/horseshoe, good reviews, bright dot, can't quite get over it's a PA.
5. Minox ZP8 1-8x. ~$2800-ish. Second focal plane red dot, daylight bright, switches off as you pass 3x mag. Turrets lock but only at zero. I'm ok with the reticle, some concerns over the mag-ring-induced dot cutoff being a failure point down the road and it's $$ for a 1-8.
6. Nightforce NX8. $1800 MSRP. .2 mil clicks, light-is at 19oz IIRC, and it's a NF. Unsure what turret options eventually exist.
7. Nightforce ATACR 1-8. $2800 MSRP. Ouch. .1 mil clicks, I slightly prefer the reticle vs the NX8. Unsure what turret options eventually exist.
8. GPO 1-8x. $1799 MSRP, unknown street price. There are others but with useless (IMO) reticles. Considering this one if it even makes it out and sees solid reviews. From former Zeiss folks, good reticle, 19oz, locking turrets: http://gpo-usa.com/products/product-...x-1-8x24i?c=56
9. March shorty or non shorty tactical 1-8x. $2k+ (hard to find real US street price), illumination not daylight bright (likely anyways, March illuminated usually isn't AFAIK).
10. Leupold Mk8 CQBSS 1.1-8
11. S&B PMII variants, e.g. 1-8x24 PMII ShortDot. ~$2700-$3300
12. HiLux CMR8 (reticle feedback from Ilya). Made in China, mixed reviews, ~$750. https://www.opticsplanet.com/leatherwood-hi-lux-hi-lux-optics-avs-cmr8-1-8x26-riflescope-ffp.html


Vortex's 'big announcement' was a lighter 1-6x Razor-lite SFP. Am I missing any other 1-8 FFP, ideally mil/mil options?

ETA 12/28 - HiLux and S&B entries added.

 

[Birddog6424]

I love the FFP in my 1-8 Burris. I think FFP in 8x justifies itself for many types of shooting. I certainly does for everything I use it for. I really don't see the need for FFP in lower magnification scopes either.

You can pick up that Burris just about everywhere for 1k. Pretty good value when you look at the quality and features compared to a lot of scopes on that list.

I know there is a gamut of opinions on reticle type, but having owned both, I don't care for mil reticles versus BDC in these lower magnification optics. It's more clutter than I need for targets at the ranges I shoot with this scope (600 yards and in mostly). If I need an exact mil hold, I'll turn the turret. But in years of using this type of scope with a BDC, I can count on one hand how many times I've turned the turret. And not ever in a competition.

Just my two cents.

 

[phlegm]

The S&B PMII options. $2700-3300.


Has anyone else noticed that the GPO, Trijicon, Primary Arms, and Bushnell SMRS all look exactly the same? The XTR II is not far off, either.

 

[CSTactical]

I love the FFP in my 1-8 Burris. I think FFP in 8x justifies itself for many types of shooting. I certainly does for everything I use it for. I really don't see the need for FFP in lower magnification scopes either.

You can pick up that Burris just about everywhere for 1k. Pretty good value when you look at the quality and features compared to a lot of scopes on that list.

I know there is a gamut of opinions on reticle type, but having owned both, I don't care for mil reticles versus BDC in these lower magnification optics. It's more clutter than I need for targets at the ranges I shoot with this scope (600 yards and in mostly). If I need an exact mil hold, I'll turn the turret. But in years of using this type of scope with a BDC, I can count on one hand how many times I've turned the turret. And not ever in a competition.

Just my two cents.

The Burris XTR II FFP 1-8 is a great option for the price! https://www.cstactical.com/burris-xtr-ii-1-8x24mm-w/-illum-ballistic-circle-dot-ffp.aspx

 

[koshkin]

That's a good summary. There is also HiLux CMR8. It is a little cheaper than the ones you are listed and it is not quite as nice optically, but I have been using one and it is holding up alright. I think they are working on further improvements, but as far as Chinese scopes go, it is not bad at all. Fair disclaimer: I did not like the reticle they put into the original version of this scope, so I collaborated with them make a different design, which they call CW-4. It is not exactly what I wanted, but it is close.

In the $1k range, I really like the XTR II, while in the "price no object" category, for now, I think Minox ZP8 is the one to beat. Mind you, since Nightforce just announced their two scopes, I am not sure where they fit. They look really good on paper and I am sure I will get my hands on them soon enough.

Same for the GPO 1-8x24. Last I heard it will be out and available toward the end of the winter, but I will know more after SHOT. I know one of the guys who works for GPO in Europe, so I will talk to him at SHOT. He swears that I will be impressed with the GPO-TAC and he knows that I am basically a cranky SOB who is seldom impressed, so we'll see.

I have some reasonable hands on time with the rest of these.


ILya

 

[Steel+Killer]

The S&B PMII options. $2700-3300.


Has anyone else noticed that the GPO, Trijicon, Primary Arms, and Bushnell SMRS all look exactly the same? The XTR II is not far off, either.

I meet a guy at the range that had the Trijicon 1-8 and we got to talking about LPV scopes and I mentioned the Primary Arms 1-8 Platinum scope he said that it was pretty much the same scope as the Trijicon 1-8 and that it was made in the same factory in Japan (LOW) he said to look at the purge port and it looks almost identical. Also there is a Trijicon ACOG that now has the ACSS reticle which was designed by Primary Arms so that lends some merit to his claim. The $1200 price tag would be easier to swallow if it had Trijicon on the side of it though......lol

 

[Pointman308]

I love the FFP in my 1-8 Burris. I think FFP in 8x justifies itself for many types of shooting. I certainly does for everything I use it for. I really don't see the need for FFP in lower magnification scopes either.

You can pick up that Burris just about everywhere for 1k. Pretty good value when you look at the quality and features compared to a lot of scopes on that list.

I know there is a gamut of opinions on reticle type, but having owned both, I don't care for mil reticles versus BDC in these lower magnification optics. It's more clutter than I need for targets at the ranges I shoot with this scope (600 yards and in mostly). If I need an exact mil hold, I'll turn the turret. But in years of using this type of scope with a BDC, I can count on one hand how many times I've turned the turret. And not ever in a competition.

Just my two cents.

I appreciate this response and it’s counter to the approach I was going to take for my spr.

 

[Harv24]

Big fan of the Burris 1-5X version.. love the features.. I find the reticle to be well thought out and useful to me and the daylight bright Horseshoe reticle. One of the best value optics out there in my opinion.

 

[carnageasada]

There seems to be a dearth of these, although it's nice NF has just announced two options. And ok - maybe not a dearth as I write them all down, but - still looking.

Not intending to debate the merits of exactly when FFP becomes useful (e.g. I'd agree zero value in a 1-4, debatable in 1-6 as well), but wondering if I'm missing any here?
1. Burris XTR-2 - but BDC reticle only. $1100-ish
2. Bushnell ET SRMS 1-8.5 - $1600 which seems a bit on the 'proud' side, and I can't quite sort wtf their reticle is doing horizontally. Also marginal in bright light visibility.
3. Trijicon Accupower 1-8x - ~$1200. seems to be marginal daylight visibility and possibly turret zero issues - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebLVQgB_QBM
4. Primary Arms Platinum 1-8x mil reticle - $1300, made in Japan. Reticle OK, mil/mil w/horseshoe, good reviews, bright dot, can't quite get over it's a PA.
5. Minox ZP8 1-8x. ~$2800-ish. Second focal plane red dot, daylight bright, switches off as you pass 3x mag. Turrets lock but only at zero. I'm ok with the reticle, some concerns over the mag-ring-induced dot cutoff being a failure point down the road and it's $$ for a 1-8.
6. Nightforce NX8. $1800 MSRP. .2 mil clicks, light-is at 19oz IIRC, and it's a NF. Unsure what turret options eventually exist.
7. Nightforce ATACR 1-8. $2800 MSRP. Ouch. .1 mil clicks, I slightly prefer the reticle vs the NX8. Unsure what turret options eventually exist.
8. GPO 1-8x. $1799 MSRP, unknown street price. There are others but with useless (IMO) reticles. Considering this one if it even makes it out and sees solid reviews. From former Zeiss folks, good reticle, 19oz, locking turrets: http://gpo-usa.com/products/product-...x-1-8x24i?c=56
9. March shorty or non shorty tactical 1-8x. $2k+ (hard to find real US street price), illumination not daylight bright (likely anyways, March illuminated usually isn't AFAIK).
10. Leupold Mk8 CQBSS 1.1-8

Vortex's 'big announcement' was a lighter 1-6x Razor-lite SFP. Am I missing any other 1-8 FFP, ideally mil/mil options?

I own the "heavier" 1-6x Razor and have no complaints, but I've also been blessed with far better vision headed into my forties than the rest of my family, otherwise I'd be in the same boat trying to squeeze the most out of my glass on a small frame AR, or just cause I want a 8x max, nuff said.

Just wanted to mention that I'm sure in your research you've browsed reviews, but pay particular attention to how the max magnification actually handles. A couple of those in the "affordable" range definitely didn't seem shine in that regard. Those NFs look nice and would've made me pause in my decision if I was still looking...

 

[TonyTheTiger]

I did not like the reticle they put into the original version of this scope, so I collaborated with them make a different design, which they call CW-4. It is not exactly what I wanted, but it is close.

ILya

Went and googled it. WTF happens to all the reticles from these little companies? It's like they design a decent reticle and then last minute decide to get input from the airsoft and video gamer community. All kinds of mil scales and ranging features get thrown in to clutter everything up then they decide to end the wind hold dots at 4 mil right when they're about to get useful.

 

[VegasHKShooter]

Since I have 3 of the scopes mentioned in this thread, I will give my two cents. I have the Burris XTR II in 1-5 and 1-8. I also have the Razor 1-6. IMO, the Burris 1-8 gives up zero to the Vortex Razor in glass quality, and has the advantages of more power, and a better illuminated reticle. Turned down to 1X it’s an Eotech’ish “donut of death”, and turned up it’s a solid 8X reticle that gives you golds out to 600’ish yards. The Vortex Razor has great glass, and I like the JM reticle. That said, the Burris has as good of glass, and more power. The Burris 1-5 is great, but it’s a 3 gun scope, not an SPR scope. Too many other great scopes with more power available now.

I WILL have the Nightforce ATACR 1-8 soon. For now, the Burris 1-8 is my top choice. At $1000 Street price, it’s HARD to beat.

 

[koshkin]

Went and googled it. WTF happens to all the reticles from these little companies? It's like they design a decent reticle and then last minute decide to get input from the airsoft and video gamer community. All kinds of mil scales and ranging features get thrown in to clutter everything up then they decide to end the wind hold dots at 4 mil right when they're about to get useful.

They have to find ways to differentiate themselves. I asked them to add the small grid to be usable at 8x. I did not want the inner circle, but with the way they do illumination, they need some area to make it visible. That is why it is there. That also limited how wide of a grid they could get in there. Generally, 4 mrad of wind seems reasonable for most situations with the 77gr SMK, which is what I mostly shoot in an AR I am using to test that scope. Choke style rangefinder for two object sizes is something they really wanted. I am not 100% sure why.

All of that stuff gets sufficiently small and unobtrusive at lower magnifications, so I did not fight it too much. My primary interest was in having a circle/dot style arrangement at 1x and some sort of a grid I can use out to 600 yards at 6x and above.

ILya

 

[cuz]

Great info, thanks. Now we need someone to put it all into a comparison spreadsheet...
I’m still in learning mode so I don’t quite understand if it matters much between FFP vs SFP in a 1-8x Scope. I also prefer a BDC reticle, but wonder if it’s just because I don’t understand how a Mil or MOA reticle works.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Generally, 4 mrad of wind seems reasonable for most situations with the 77gr SMK, which is what I mostly shoot in an AR I am using to test that scope. Choke style rangefinder for two object sizes is something they really wanted. I am not 100% sure why.

ILya

I guess I didn't specify in my post above thay 4 mil of horizontal dots is sufficient, I just wish they would've continued them further down the the reticle vertically.

It sounds like the reticle you envisioned is closer to my preferences. I'm sure theirs is usable but I wouldn't mind if it was a little cleaner.

 

[koshkin]

I guess I didn't specify in my post above thay 4 mil of horizontal dots is sufficient, I just wish they would've continued them further down the the reticle vertically.

It sounds like the reticle you envisioned is closer to my preferences. I'm sure theirs is usable but I wouldn't mind if it was a little cleaner.

I see. If they could do brighter illumination, the small circle would not be visible and it would look cleaner.

If I did not have the circle, I could get a little more width on the grid, which would be helpful for lead, but for wind, I think what I have there is about right. I can use the horizontal scale for lead.

As far as the vertical grid size goes, that one is my fault. Since the circle was there to stay, I wanted to be able to use it as a dot at close distances (~15-20 yards) without holdovers, so I sight it in so that the +2mrad hash is dead on at 100 yards. I also wanted to contain the grid inside a circle. That results in a weird zero for the center dot at ~350 yards and the -4 mrad holdover gets you out to about 700 yards, which is about as far as I would normally try to shoot with a 5.56.

That also gives me some other shortcuts for getting quick COM hits at distance: if you put the bottom of 6 foot tall shape on the lowest mark on the grid, you'll get a COM hit from 200 to 500 yards. Same for a smaller target with its bottom edge in the open space between -2mrad and -3 mrad.

ILya

 

[Birddog6424]

Since I have 3 of the scopes mentioned in this thread, I will give my two cents. I have the Burris XTR II in 1-5 and 1-8. I also have the Razor 1-6. IMO, the Burris 1-8 gives up zero to the Vortex Razor in glass quality, and has the advantages of more power, and a better illuminated reticle. Turned down to 1X it’s an Eotech’ish “donut of death”, and turned up it’s a solid 8X reticle that gives you golds out to 600’ish yards. The Vortex Razor has great glass, and I like the JM reticle. That said, the Burris has as good of glass, and more power. The Burris 1-5 is great, but it’s a 3 gun scope, not an SPR scope. Too many other great scopes with more power available now.

I WILL have the Nightforce ATACR 1-8 soon. For now, the Burris 1-8 is my top choice. At $1000 Street price, it’s HARD to beat.

I'm looking forward to taking a peek at the new ATACR at SHOT next month. At $1700 more money then my Burris, that NF glass better be rainbows and unicorns...

At 2k plus I'm still a fan of the Kahles K16i and the Minox ZP8. Great scopes for someone dropping that many shekels on a 6x or 8x.

 

[VegasHKShooter]

I'm looking forward to taking a peek at the new ATACR at SHOT next month. At $1700 more money then my Burris, that NF glass better be rainbows and unicorns...

At 2k plus I'm still a fan of the Kahles K16i and the Minox ZP8. Great scopes for someone dropping that many shekels on a 6x or 8x.

I totally agree with you there. Huge Kahles fan. I really went back and forth on the Kahles vs the Burris. In the end, I decided the Burris did all I wanted it to, and was about $700 cheaper (Kahles does an L.E. price).
I had the Burris on my DD DD5V1 7.62, but I shoot my 5.56 much more. I ended up moving my Burris to my 5.56 SPR, and my Razor to the DD. The Burris replaced the Razor!!! It’s the same weight, and has more power.

To the OP: in my job of LE firearms Instructor, I literally see and get to shoot most of the glass out there. We are a huge dept. about 3500, and around 1400 rifles currently in use. We started an SPR/DMR program this year. We’ve put 60+ people through the class. Because of the volume of folks, I see a ton of scopes. I only throw that out to let you know where I’m getting my info, and what I’m basing my opinions on.

 

[Birddog6424]

Burris also does a discount program Vegas. They call it a First Responder program. It's a little more expanded than a MIL/LEO program. It includes paramedics, judges, security guards, firefighters, etc. Just in case you or your co-workers are in the market for a Burris optic, you can give this a shot.

Appreciate you guys!

https://www.burrisoptics.com/first-r...rchase-program

 

[rtpguy]

The S&B PMII options. $2700-3300.


Has anyone else noticed that the GPO, Trijicon, Primary Arms, and Bushnell SMRS all look exactly the same? The XTR II is not far off, either.

Thanks - added to the list along with the HiLux Ilya mentioned.

Family emergency had me traveling, so a fair delay since the original post and this response, but I appreciate the comments and additions. Perhaps it'll turn up in someone's search in the future and save them some time.

For me personally, I think I'm vacillating between the Minox and Nightforce options, pending the GPO reviews or a mil/mil Burris or Bushnell option coming on strong at SHOT. (Would be very happy to save a few $ there, if it happens..).

 

[MarkCO]

I ran the XTRII 1-5 (mil reticle) for 2 years and have since changed to the RT6 for my .223 3Gun rifle and the XTRII 1-8 for my DD .308. I really think the 1-5 takes a back seat to either for 3Gun, but in an application where speed on 1x is not desired, why not go to a 2-10? Just a thought.

 

[koshkin]

Thanks - added to the list along with the HiLux Ilya mentioned.

Family emergency had me traveling, so a fair delay since the original post and this response, but I appreciate the comments and additions. Perhaps it'll turn up in someone's search in the future and save them some time.

For me personally, I think I'm vacillating between the Minox and Nightforce options, pending the GPO reviews or a mil/mil Burris or Bushnell option coming on strong at SHOT. (Would be very happy to save a few $ there, if it happens..).

I'll be reporting on all the optics I see at SHOT, so stay tuned. I usually try to sit in front of the camera as soon after SHOT as the situation allows and upload everything onto Youtube. That way, I can have a record of some sorts while my memory is still fresh. The write-up takes me a bit longer.

Generally, I am rather bullish on the HiLux's CMR8. The basic mechanical design seems pretty sound and they listen to market feedback. There is really no other decent FFP 1-8x anywhere near the price of the CMR8.

With March, I have tested the non-shorty 1-8x24 and while a very nice scope overall, illumination was its Achilles heel. They made a brighter illumination module for it, but then it was too bright for low light. Turk Takano showed me a different version of the illumination control on his 1-10x24 a couple of years ago, which worked better, but I have not seen it on the 1-8x24.
One interesting thing was that the March had a rather shallow depth of field, so side focus was important. I wonder how the Shorty version deals with that, since it eschews the side focus.

ILya

 

[rtpguy]

I ran the XTRII 1-5 (mil reticle) for 2 years and have since changed to the RT6 for my .223 3Gun rifle and the XTRII 1-8 for my DD .308. I really think the 1-5 takes a back seat to either for 3Gun, but in an application where speed on 1x is not desired, why not go to a 2-10? Just a thought.

I'll be using the rifle in question in 3 gun occasionally - I run a VX6 multi-gun (they keep changing the name on their VX6 lineup, but it's a daylight bright dot + SPR reticle) on my primary 5.56/.223 3gun rifle currently. The .308 gas rifle in question is currently running a DMR2 3.5-21 and I suppose I could just add an offset DP Pro or RMR, but I've also got another gas rifle coming in 5.56 where a 1-8x FFP could find a good home.

 

[deersniper]

What's wrong with the Trijicon 1-8 turrets?

 

[rtpguy]

What's wrong with the Trijicon 1-8 turrets?

Follow the link already provided + google. Somewhere or another I had found some discussion where it sounded like Trijicon acknowledged the problem but hasn't fixed it. YMMV if you care or not.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebLVQgB_QBM
No firsthand experience but the thread on it made it worth mentioning, IMO.

 

[Steel+Killer]

I could be totally wrong on this, but I just bought the Primary Arms 1-8 Platinum Series which from my understanding is pretty much the same scope as the Trijicon 1-8. I noticed that when I first tried to reset the turret caps to zero I was having the same problem with the spline not wanting to line up to zero just like in the video in the link above. What I found was that it only gave me a problem when I left the turret down in the locked position then unscrewed the cap, but if I pulled up and unlocked the turret then removed the screw I had no problem resetting the turret to zero. Anyway not 100% sure if that is the fix for the Trijicon 1-8, but it worked for the Primary Arms 1-8 Platinum scope.

 

[scocoabeach]

It would be interesting to have more feedback on this thread now that more people have the NF scopes. Thoughts from those that have experience with the above? The two main ones I’m considering are the Burris XTR2 and NX8 (or possibly the ATACR if I found it for a really good price).

 

[CSTactical]

It would be interesting to have more feedback on this thread now that more people have the NF scopes. Thoughts from those that have experience with the above? The two main ones I’m considering are the Burris XTR2 and NX8 (or possibly the ATACR if I found it for a really good price).

We'd love to discuss those options for you, please give us a call at 916-670-1103

 

[hitman]

I can not speak about the NF but I have the Primary Arms Platinum 1-8 and it is pretty awesome actually. the glass is clear and I love love the reticle! It is heavy but it feels fine for me. It is turning into my favorite scope. I wish PA would come out with a PLatinum line for the 1-6 scopes. I think with the ACCS reticle it would be a favorite for many people.

 

[steve123]

I've been very pleased with the Burris XTR2 1-8 FFP. There's little to be improved upon. For occasional use in 3 gun, and shooting steel out to 700Y, it's in that price range where I'm glad/satisfied I didn't spend more money for a higher tier optic.

 

[Mute]

Bang for the buck, I'd still put the Burris XTR II at the top of the list. I don't think anything else in the same price range compares. Money no object, I'd look at S&B's offerings or the NF ATACR.

 

[CSTactical]

We have one display Burris XTR II 1-8 FFP for just $950 shipped if anyone is interested Please give us a call at 916-670-1103 to pick this one up.

 

[TimK]

I have been using my NX8 quite a bit in local competitions. I can't find anything to complain about, and much to like. I haven't actually shot with it yet at 1X, but fooling around with it in the shop it acts just like a red dot. I don't anticipate any complaints about that, either.

If size and weight are at all important to you, be sure to pay attention. The NX8 is very small and light. Compared to my older USO 1-6, it's positively tiny. Many of the other offerings are significantly larger and heavier, including the ATACR.

 

[CSTactical]

I have been using my NX8 quite a bit in local competitions. I can't find anything to complain about, and much to like. I haven't actually shot with it yet at 1X, but fooling around with it in the shop it acts just like a red dot. I don't anticipate any complaints about that, either.

If size and weight are at all important to you, be sure to pay attention. The NX8 is very small and light. Compared to my older USO 1-6, it's positively tiny. Many of the other offerings are significantly larger and heavier, including the ATACR.

Speaking of the NX8...

One Nightforce Optics NX8 1-8x24 FFP mil/mil display model in excellent shape for $1,515.00 ($200 off retail price) call us at 916-670-1103 to pick this one up.