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Range Report 10 Shot Load Development Results - 6.5 Creedmoor

z324u

Private
Minuteman
Jan 20, 2019
19
4
A few questions regarding the 10 shot LD:

1. Should I redo the test once I have fire formed the brass?... I've read (after the fact) that velocity will change with once fired brass?
2. If not, I'm not seeing any flat spots here, any suggestions?

With Hornady brass there was a definite flat spot at 42.0-42.6 grains, not so much with the Peterson test below.

7061374
 
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Geez, I'm an idiot! Thanks, I got my axis mixed up on this one.
It's a little easier to read this way!

This is almost identical to my Hornady / Federal brass charge vs. speed graphs. Looks like I use my load that was working so well with the other brass, but I'll check it again with once fired to confirm.

Thanks fellas.

7061513
 
For Reference: The Federal brass test was a bit easier to decipher.
It may have been unequal neck tension if I had to guess... the Peterson brass was perfect.

7061521
 
And by the way, if you’ve got a Creedmoor with a decent tube that won’t shoot around 42.3 H4350 with 140gr pills decently-you’ve got a broken rifle.
I agree. I shot some Factory 6.5CM 147 ELD’s today just to see and I could get down to .251 at 100yd. and it was really windy. Something is wrong with your rifle.
 

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I may be retarded but they way your graph is you’d be looking for a sharp vertical line to denote a “flat spot” in your MV. Either 41-41.2 or 42.2-42.6. I’d try 42.4 if you’re not seeing any pressure signs.

This!

Both show me the same places I’d chase, 42.4-42.6 and if you’d like a softer, easier on the barrel and brass load, 41.4-41.8.

That’s what I see.

Op, I recently did this test with my 260 and picked the high flat spot.
Shooting last weekend out to 1400+ yards I had the best vertical dispersion I’ve ever had.

I did the same test with my buddy’s 338 norma and we picked the low flat spot and he and I were very pleased with his loads performance as well.
 
TLDR: For virgin brass, focus on perfecting your technique (keeping variations in your brass prep LOW) and load a little over minimum to the middle of the recommended powder charges. Use these rounds to "break in" your barrel if you believe in that and practice good marksmanship fundamentals. Once fired brass is really recommended to be the start of your load development.



I did the same thing as you did.
I bought 300 pieces of Peterson brass, and did Saterlee's test and OCW. With an SD of 6/7 (I trimmed some pieces of brass too short I assume), I found that my nodes were between 41.4-41.6 and 42.3-42.6 with both the 10 round test and OCW.

Now, I wanted to have a high velocity, so I chose 42.4gr @ 2824fps verified over 60 rounds with the same SD's.
I then worked the magic on once fired brass and found that my FPS jumped considerably, with major pressure signs showing up. (I went from 2824 to 2860 with my once fired brass with heavy ejector marks.) As you might find after searching, most of the energy during fire forming virgin brass is used to expand the case, hence lower FPS/pressures. Once the case is somewhat fitted/resized to your chamber, you'll get the standard velocities you'll see for the rest of the barrel's life at those powder charges.

After scouring the web to find some sort of algorithm for nodes, and found one guy mentioning to subtract 0.8gr and I'd be somewhere around my next lowest node (41.6gr). Me being a skeptic/science geek, I noted that information but still went on to do another OCW test, this time with 42.4 as my max.

I found the same POI at 41.4-41.6 and settled on 41.5. Ironically, I loaded 3 rounds of 41.5gr as the center load to be my sight in shots. The group, measured at the center points with calipers, was a little over 1/4 MOA, while 41.4 and 41.6 was around 3/10 MOA.


If you really want, I can post the incredibly long journey I had developing my load.
 
Frost - great info. I definitely would be interested in your journey should you take the time to post it.

One question about your fire formed brass ....
Once fire formed, are you using a FLS die / bushing bump / neck sizing?

Also, if you are pushing the shoulder back - how far are you going? With my bergara, I’m having to push my shoulder back to BTDL 1.536” to get the rounds to chamber smoothly. It’s roughly a .004” bump back from a fried case.
 
Also, if you are pushing the shoulder back - how far are you going? With my bergara, I’m having to push my shoulder back to BTDL 1.536” to get the rounds to chamber smoothly. It’s roughly a .004” bump back from a fried case.

Not Frost, but .004” shoulder bump is excessive, and will trash your brass in short order (you’ll learn to use a bent paper clip to scrape the inside of your brass above the web to feelfor impending case head separations long before your brass should be shot out).
I shoot for .001-.002” bump, and I use cheap FLS dies even though I should be using bushing dies. To me the difference between 1/2 and 1/4 moa is not something I can shoot inside of in field conditions, so I advocate consistent fundamentals over chasing minutiae for benchrest groups.
 
Thanks - I will try to shoot for .002 next go around and see how it does. I enjoy chasing the smaller groups, but I definitely understand your perspective. I will say I have not seen much difference between the bushing die I have and the FLS die, but I am learning as I go. When Frost mentioned the change in velocity with fire formed brass it made me think about how the brass is sized, and if I full length size vs neck/shoulder bump - does it lose some of that “fit” in the chamber.

I don’t think I’ll ever neck size only, as I don’t want to fight with chambering.
 
Frost - great info. I definitely would be interested in your journey should you take the time to post it.

One question about your fire formed brass ....
Once fire formed, are you using a FLS die / bushing bump / neck sizing?

Also, if you are pushing the shoulder back - how far are you going? With my bergara, I’m having to push my shoulder back to BTDL 1.536” to get the rounds to chamber smoothly. It’s roughly a .004” bump back from a fried case.


I don't use a bushing die, but I do FL resize. What I do use is an expander mandrel and pin gauges to confirm. (You could honestly get away with just an expander mandrel)

Lmfao. Legitimately, we do the same thing. I measured my headspace at I thought was 1.538, while it was actually 1.540.

I'm still doing a study on annealing and I'm only on the third firing of the brass so it'll be a while before those results, but sobrbiker883 makes a good point. In my opinion and experience, a 0.004 bump is great for factory brass, but bad for reloaded brass due to being overworked from expansion and resizing.

To be ultra technical, FL sizing does lose some internal volume but it'd be comparable to 0.002 bump back. The trade off is again, you know you won't have issues chambering.

But I have finals next week and I'll be sporadically on and off until then. I'll make a separate post with findings and information after my test.
 
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