So I got this .300 winmag in the hopes of getting into some long range fun and I was wondering how realistic it would be to get out there without a spotter? I’ve been able to get to 600 yds on my own little by little, and in little to no wind conditions. Haven’t attempted anything longer, mostly because I don’t have the range/time to work out that far. Assuming known and consistent velocities and accurate ballistic calculators, (I use GeoBallistics) wind, and DOPE is it possible to just keep stretching it out in increments or will I be wasting my time? I realize I will be using a lot more ammo this way. Obviously, I won’t be seeing impacts with that much recoil. If feasible, any advice on how to achieve 1000+ yds without a spotter? I was thinking perhaps using a 4’x8’ target and a video cam at target area since it would take a second or so to impact at that distance but that equipment would probably be a lot more than a spotter scope! Man, I need more friends that shoot!
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1000+ Yards without a Spotter?
- Thread starter FreQRiDeR
- Start date
Probably not worth it if it’s obvious you can’t spot you own shots through the scope. I would probably suggest getting good at the basics....managing recoil. I’m not the biggest dude in the world, and I can still spot my shots with magnums.
After that, work on your wind reading and wind dope. If you’re doing everything you’re suppose to be doing and entering good info into your app, there should be minimal truing at 1000y...especially with a .300 wm, and you’ll be somewhere in there.
After that, work on your wind reading and wind dope. If you’re doing everything you’re suppose to be doing and entering good info into your app, there should be minimal truing at 1000y...especially with a .300 wm, and you’ll be somewhere in there.
I do it a lot with my 260, 7 saum and 338 Norma.
Just self spot.
Just self spot.
Dude, you're already showing signs of a defeatist attitude. No bueno.
Dunno if I'd suggest starting with a magnum, but if you convince yourself you can't manage the recoil and spot your own hits, yer already fugged.
Get over it and get after it.
1: you can absolutely manage recoil on a 300wm
2: the further away, the easier it is as you have more time to recover from the recoil impulse as the bullet is in flight
2: the further away, the easier it is as you have more time to recover from the recoil impulse as the bullet is in flight
Unsure of what type of targets you're working with, but there's no need to haul out a 4’x8’ target, especially if you have a dirt berm. Put out a 2’x2’ steel target, if you have the steel available (or smaller ones side by side/quartered). You absolutely can catch your own trace, but it is usually more difficult for inexperienced shooters due to a lacking fundamental. Try dialing down your magnification and that should help you as well. Too many dudes love cranking that magnification ring at distance and most lose their targets under recoil, let alone trace. Once you have your elevation data for a certain range, its just a matter of learning/testing your wind data. Too easy man, just takes practice.
But if you have the time and money to just pop off rounds for the day, go for it man. Every day at the range should result in something being learned. Every miss is a lesson learned, either immediately or while you're staring at the ceiling at night wiping the tears away from your eyes. If you want to maximize your ability to work alone at longer ranges, you should invest in taking a quality training course.
But if you have the time and money to just pop off rounds for the day, go for it man. Every day at the range should result in something being learned. Every miss is a lesson learned, either immediately or while you're staring at the ceiling at night wiping the tears away from your eyes. If you want to maximize your ability to work alone at longer ranges, you should invest in taking a quality training course.
When I first got my 300 Win Mag (before I put on a new heavy barrel) the recoil was brutal. I ended up putting a Witt clamp on muzzle brake and it really tamed the beast. You measure the barrel and they machine it to fit. Well worth the money.
Clamp-Ons - Witt Machine
Clamp on adapters for unthreaded barrels. Threaded adapters to allow quality muzzle devices to be attached to your unthreaded barrel.
www.wittmachine.net
Mike
Keys to self-spotting at distance:
- Manage your recoil so you can see impacts - obviously this takes practice (and a brake helps)
- A target location that is close to a backstop so you can easily spot misses
- A backstop that allows you to easily spot misses (e.g. dirt)
- A steel target that will allow you to definitively know you hit it
- Manage your recoil so you can see impacts - obviously this takes practice (and a brake helps)
- A target location that is close to a backstop so you can easily spot misses
- A backstop that allows you to easily spot misses (e.g. dirt)
- A steel target that will allow you to definitively know you hit it
Yeah, I put a heavy, laminate thumbhole stock on and that mitigated the recoil quite a bit, distributing it between my shoulder and palm. I looked into a brake but the sporter barrel profile is prohibitive as it’s pretty thin. Would have to go custom, it seems. I think my bipod is too tall as it puts me in an awkward position prone. Seems to jump on me quite a bit. I definitely shoot better on bags. My eyesight hasn’t been all that great either! Definitely need to work on form and setup some more as develop a new load for heavier bullets. I’m shooting 180’s now. I’d like to take advantage of the heavier/higher bc bullets. Lots of work to do! Thanks for all the suggestions!
Bipod hop is due to poor recoil management. It may be too tall bipod, but with bipods, taller is usually better unless it’s way tall.
Also, part of the hop is likely due to trying to mitigate recoil with your hand in the thumbhole.
Your thumb and the webbing between thumb and hand should not be influencing the rifle, even if you wrap your thumb. You should be able to cut off your thumb and nothing change about how you shoot. That’s how much the thumb shouldn’t matter.
Load your bipod just enough to take out the slack (this is done with body weight and gravity) while using your grip hand to apply slight rearward pressure on the grip. The pressure needs to be straight back and your bipod load needs to be straight forward.
Relax your body and shoulders (except the grip pulling straight back). If you do all this and are straight behind the rifle, you’ll be able to spot all your shots unless really bad environmental conditions.
I shoot steel w/a 300wm an 338LM, (both with breaks) an can see the gray spot appear in a moa black painted circle. If I can do it anyone can, you just need a little coaching is all.
Technique allows you to spot your own impacts, the recoil can absolutely be managed correctly in a 300WM
Look at the recoil of this 20" 338LM, note the little brown spec in the beginning under the muzzle brake. Watch the muzzle return to it's original starting point, albeit with a tiny drop down because of the gravel under the bipod.
Look at the recoil of this 20" 338LM, note the little brown spec in the beginning under the muzzle brake. Watch the muzzle return to it's original starting point, albeit with a tiny drop down because of the gravel under the bipod.
The first barrel on my 300 was a sporter profile and Witt machined The brake for it for $89. Prefect fit. It’s a Remington 783. I don’t use it anymore, maybe it would fit your barrel or maybe they could machine it to fit yours. What diameter barrel is yours at the muzzle?
Mike
That is legit Frank! Always wondered how much of a handful those 20” 338 barrels were when i saw “The LAV” run one on his show. Way to put the F in WTF?
That is actually Larry Vicker's Rifle, I set it up for him before it was sent his way ...
I don’t know about welding on a barrel, not part of my knowledge base, but the brake is steel. I have two; this one has about 200 rounds through it and I have one on a 243 has at least 500. Both were marked and haven’t moved at all.
Mike
Mike
The one I had was absolutely trouble free.
It was on the barrel that showed me what a great barrel is all about.
Oh wow thats cool, what a trip! I remember seeing the show he had had it on, think he took it to Gunsite maybe? Seems like it would give you a sunburn on youre face with that 20 on it, but none the less cool as shit!
Northern California foothills. Very wooded and hilly. I’ve found some sandbars by the river that measure over 1000yds but not sure of the legality of shooting there. I know of the range in Sacramento, but not too keen on shooting around a bunch of yahoos. Ideally looking for private property. Not unreasonable as my neighbor has 1300 ac, and the one behind him has 6000!
At least pinning it? I know they weld em on 14.5" barrels to make them permanently 16” to avoid SBR tax.
I can see impacts as close as 100 yards with a 300 Norma. With the gun still moving I can’t process much of it but I can see stuff happening at the target. Out to 200 I can start to understand what I’m seeing. When shooting 1000+ I can pull the trigger then eat a sammich then watch the impact. IOW yes you can easily spot for yourself as long as you have a good enough scope and mirage isn’t too bad.
Work on your fundamentals with the goal of always seeing the impact, no matter the distance. Your brain will start to shift out of the rifle and onto the target.
So everyone has mentioned that fundamentally, you can control recoil. While I agree, I am also a realist.
Let me put this on the table as a guess. It sounds like you bought yourself a hunting weight 300wm with the typical pencil barrel and added a Boyds or similar stock that might have added a pound or so, a Harris or clone type bipod and you're trying to make it a target or dual-purpose rifle.
If that is the case: You're probably going to be fighting your equipment more than it is worth and in the end, the equipment might just do more damage to your learning than good. These factory weight hunting barrels in the bigger magnums tend to walk as you target shoot, get extremely hot very fast and cause barrel mirage. This makes precision shooting rather tough. On top of that, while you're trying to develop the fundamentals people are talking about your getting beat by the non-braked, light 300WM most-likely on a rather rough bipod.
If this is even remotely the cause, you just walked into the Flinch University. You might not be a graduate yet. But if you try to target shoot that thing too much, with too many rounds in a row, I bet you'll graduate with a Masters Degree in Filching and poor trigger control.
Yes, I can see my impacts with my magnum with a base weight of <6lbs (before the scope, rounds, bipod, etc). But damn, it hits hard, not fun to shoot and if I shot it all day, all the time, I'd start to flinch too.
Here is a post I just did yesterday on this very topic for a youngster wanting to get a 7mag in a hunting weight because he is "not recoil sensitive". It explains a bit of what happened to me as a young shooter trying to use a hunting magnum for targets and sustained rounds.
Many target shooters, many of my friends and fellow competitors, have never really tried to use a lightweight, non-braked magnum with a cheap bipod, as a target rifle. The above may not even seem like a big deal to some who have not shot these rifles for extended periods, but it is a very real handicap. There is a world of difference between a 300 in a 9lbs system on a crap bipod and a 16lbs+ plus rifle with braked/can set-up as a target rifle.
In a non-braked 300 with 180s a bit over 3050FPS you are dealing with a recoil impulse over 31LBS recoil energy. A 20lbs rifle with a brake is going to have a much slower recoil impulse, and maybe <7lbs of recoil force - That's truly huge at almost 80% less felt recoil and far less "snappy". Plus, the barrel and bipod are going to aid in precision. A 6.5 RPR or the like, in the long run, might be a cheaper all-around 1000 yard target solution than trying to make a 300WM hunter into a target gun.
If my guess is off base, sorry. The only intent is to raise awareness of the pitfalls that so many of us have struggled through.
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@Diver160651 makes all the right points in his post above. Even if he did misspell Flinch University, his point about trying to force yourself to learn fundamentals with the wrong tool is a valid one.
Agree with this for sure. Don’t grab a 2lb sledge hammer to try to learn finish carpentry. You need to be present and aware throughout the recoil. People most of the time have no idea they are blacking out through recoil. The best way to learn not to is with less recoil/noise. That’s why 22 trainers can do so much good. It trains people to keep their eyes open and their focus on watching what happens. The more noise and recoil there is the more likely you are to flinch/blackout and the noise and recoil also covers up the fact that you are blacking out. Until you can do it right with a 22, 223, 308, in that order all unbraked..... don’t try it with a 300.
Pretty spot on, down to the Boyds stock even! LoL Yes, I started out with a cheapo Savage 116 Hunter XP. No, I’m not new to shooting. I’m just trying to see how far I can go. I have switched to bags in leu of the Harris bipod (another accurate assumption) with better results. I’m not going to invest too much on a brake solution for the sporter barrel as I’ll probably switch to a heavy barrel once this one is shot out. Shouldn’t be too long with a S.S. magnum. Overcoming the equipment handicaps is part of the fun for me. (read CHEAPSKATE!) I’ve achieved 1/4 MOA with this setup, with my reloads, so I’m hardly lacking in fundamentals.
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Guys this isn;t magic, it's method
We teach guys with hunting style rifles in magnum calibers all the time. We tweak their position, we line them up correctly, and try to them to try a different bipod as hunters and bipods are a hassle. We hammer forge them fundamentally.
Here are some examples from our AK classes as they have the biggest cross section of shooters using magnums and hunting style rifles. It's why you see us at the shooter and not just on glass.
these aren't big heavy tactical rifles, but hunting rifles
It's about tailoring (Tayloring) the student to understand the recoil characteristics of their particular rifle, even if they are on a bench
Yes, magnums can be and usually are, Flinch Factories, they are not what you want to learn on, but sometimes it is what the student has and will be using daily. So education is key to understanding the recoil and how to manage it.
We see a huge variety in student skillset and rifle/caliber combinations, it's not easy but we do it each and every time.
You cannot phone in the effort when it comes to managing recoil in these light magnums
Every shot has to mean something
It's rifle set up, how well does it fit your body type and style of shooting,
It's body mechanics
It's the fundamentals
Sure we would rather you learn on something smaller but it is not always an option. Double up your hearing protection to combat the sound that leads to a flinch, stack your body behind the rifle, square off from it.
You can be shooting a 28 Nosler off a tree branch, and you should be able to manage the recoil, but you have to put in the work.
So while magnums are not ideal, with the proper education behind them, you can make it work.
We teach guys with hunting style rifles in magnum calibers all the time. We tweak their position, we line them up correctly, and try to them to try a different bipod as hunters and bipods are a hassle. We hammer forge them fundamentally.
Here are some examples from our AK classes as they have the biggest cross section of shooters using magnums and hunting style rifles. It's why you see us at the shooter and not just on glass.
these aren't big heavy tactical rifles, but hunting rifles
It's about tailoring (Tayloring) the student to understand the recoil characteristics of their particular rifle, even if they are on a bench
Yes, magnums can be and usually are, Flinch Factories, they are not what you want to learn on, but sometimes it is what the student has and will be using daily. So education is key to understanding the recoil and how to manage it.
We see a huge variety in student skillset and rifle/caliber combinations, it's not easy but we do it each and every time.
You cannot phone in the effort when it comes to managing recoil in these light magnums
Every shot has to mean something
It's rifle set up, how well does it fit your body type and style of shooting,
It's body mechanics
It's the fundamentals
Sure we would rather you learn on something smaller but it is not always an option. Double up your hearing protection to combat the sound that leads to a flinch, stack your body behind the rifle, square off from it.
You can be shooting a 28 Nosler off a tree branch, and you should be able to manage the recoil, but you have to put in the work.
So while magnums are not ideal, with the proper education behind them, you can make it work.
Guys this isn;t magic, it's method
We teach guys with hunting style rifles in magnum calibers all the time. We tweak their position, we line them up correctly, and try to them to try a different bipod as hunters and bipods are a hassle. We hammer forge them fundamentally.
Here are some examples from our AK classes as they have the biggest cross section of shooters using magnums and hunting style rifles. It's why you see us at the shooter and not just on glass.
these aren't big heavy tactical rifles, but hunting rifles
It's about tailoring (Tayloring) the student to understand the recoil characteristics of their particular rifle, even if they are on a bench
Yes, magnums can be and usually are, Flinch Factories, they are not what you want to learn on, but sometimes it is what the student has and will be using daily. So education is key to understanding the recoil and how to manage it.
We see a huge variety in student skillset and rifle/caliber combinations, it's not easy but we do it each and every time.
You cannot phone in the effort when it comes to managing recoil in these light magnums
Every shot has to mean something
It's rifle set up, how well does it fit your body type and style of shooting,
It's body mechanics
It's the fundamentals
Sure we would rather you learn on something smaller but it is not always an option. Double up your hearing protection to combat the sound that leads to a flinch, stack your body behind the rifle, square off from it.
You can be shooting a 28 Nosler off a tree branch, and you should be able to manage the recoil, but you have to put in the work.
So while magnums are not ideal, with the proper education behind them, you can make it work.
Great post, a lot of contextual information/nugget bombs.
I don’t think anyone here is saying it can’t work. Hell my penciled barrel, unbraked mag, groups amazing for 5 rounds.. but it is not something I want to run 100+ rounds a weekend on a regular basis, or use as a ELR gun.. On the other hand, my light weight Proof barreled hunting mag with a brake, is a pussy cat in comparison.
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Arn’t they still??Well, the first military sniper rifles WERE HUNTING RIFLES!
Fuck this gun stuff.. I am going hunting Friday with my bow!!
Ewwww you said the b word ?Arn’t they still??
Fuck this gun stuff.. I am going hunting Friday with my bow!!
Well ELR on my Vertix is about 120 yards-- for me. Hunting to 60 is far.
I know what you mean. Quite a number of years ago, my brother and I would practice now in my backyard. When we got bored, we would push it out to 100 yards or so. While we were able to dial in our shots after a few, neither of us felt comfortable taking long shots on actual game. This was with my rather old PSE compound.
When you consider that medieval longbow archers at war had an effective range of 300-350 yards with steel tipped arrows that could pierce armor, it can be humbling. Especially when you find out that some of the bows had pull weights as much as 150 lbs.
There were bows with pull weights above 150#!
Those dudes were studs!
I’m going to a new area a member here kindly shared with me this weekend.
Going alone because I’m selfish and respectful to the person who shared it.
Looking forward to finding the targets and getting some hits.
I actually enjoy self spotting because it keeps me focused on shooting fundamentals.
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I was having the same issue - got a brake and dialed down the optic. Should be able to see misses with 1X/100yds. Then walk up the optic as you walk the shot in. As long as you know the BC of your projectile, even with approximate velocity, the first shot should be in your field of view. I can see impacts/misses now even at ~35X for 1K yds. But at that magnification, technique has to be on to see the impact each time.
Phoneskope on my tripod, though I am now teaching my 7 year old to describe what the bullet is doing for me. He has a lot of fun 
That second to last picture is me, but not my gun, @lowlight and @enoughsaid had us try each other's setup to experience what he talks about. I also got to shoot Marc's 338 AI @1k after learning the fundamentals. Night and day.Guys this isn;t magic, it's method
We teach guys with hunting style rifles in magnum calibers all the time. We tweak their position, we line them up correctly, and try to them to try a different bipod as hunters and bipods are a hassle. We hammer forge them fundamentally.
Here are some examples from our AK classes as they have the biggest cross section of shooters using magnums and hunting style rifles. It's why you see us at the shooter and not just on glass.
these aren't big heavy tactical rifles, but hunting rifles
It's about tailoring (Tayloring) the student to understand the recoil characteristics of their particular rifle, even if they are on a bench
Yes, magnums can be and usually are, Flinch Factories, they are not what you want to learn on, but sometimes it is what the student has and will be using daily. So education is key to understanding the recoil and how to manage it.
We see a huge variety in student skillset and rifle/caliber combinations, it's not easy but we do it each and every time.
You cannot phone in the effort when it comes to managing recoil in these light magnums
Every shot has to mean something
It's rifle set up, how well does it fit your body type and style of shooting,
It's body mechanics
It's the fundamentals
Sure we would rather you learn on something smaller but it is not always an option. Double up your hearing protection to combat the sound that leads to a flinch, stack your body behind the rifle, square off from it.
You can be shooting a 28 Nosler off a tree branch, and you should be able to manage the recoil, but you have to put in the work.
So while magnums are not ideal, with the proper education behind them, you can make it work.
It holds it snug. You have to remove the rubber eyepiece. Then a split ring adapter fits over the eyepiece and fits in the groove where the rubber eyepiece fit. The part holding the cell phone fits over that and locks in place with a camlock.
MINITS iWitness SSAHD Smartphone to Spotting Scope Mounting Kit - Military Grade
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Older thread, but why not drive drive down to Sacramento and shoot a highpower F clasd match? No guesswork. Instant downrange feedback and plenty of qualified people to spot for you're not on in 1 or 2 shots? Don't get wrapped up in the competition aspect of it. Use it for dope. Wind should be challanging enough that you can get several data points if you don't mind the DNFs and the allow the muzzle brake.
This is NOT directed at the OP or anyone else in this thread. One thing about these highpower matches is the whole " this is a 1/4" moa gun at 1k" bullshit ends pretty quick. 3 shots does not an accurate rifle make. Be ready to have your eyes opened . If you can get past ego, there is so much you can take away from a flat range to tune your kit and data.
This is NOT directed at the OP or anyone else in this thread. One thing about these highpower matches is the whole " this is a 1/4" moa gun at 1k" bullshit ends pretty quick. 3 shots does not an accurate rifle make. Be ready to have your eyes opened . If you can get past ego, there is so much you can take away from a flat range to tune your kit and data.
Find a red clay hillside, crank scope to the 6x-12x range You can get back in the scope, given good form, in plenty time to spot impact
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