(100YARD), Semi-Auto, 6groups, 30round SHOOTOUT!

#201
Re: SemiAuto, 6 groups, 5shot each, 30 round SHOOTOUT!

Wow, nice shooting Mcarnell82!! You are the man to beat for both average and best single group! Nice job! I bet your results will be even better when your wife isn't kicking your A$$ for not being to dinner on time. Hehehe. Good job.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mcarnell82</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well after the embarrassment of two targets that I couldn't use due to me not paying attention to round count I made sure I didn't do it again. I set 5 rounds out for each group instead of loading up a couple mags and relying on my 1st grade math skills...lol. The results are close to yesterdays groups but my last group was the worst due to barrel heat??? I was rushing because the wife called and said dinner is finished. So I shot the groups with no time to cool in between groups. Overall the rifle shoots better than I can so I bet I have a .5 moa gun but I am not a .5 moa shooter haha...

I also shot some American Eagle just to see how it shot but it sucked so bad I'm embarrassed to say it was from the same rifle. I might measure the groups and post the results any ways.
</div></div>
 
#202
Re: SemiAuto, 6 groups, 5shot each, 30 round SHOOTOUT!

Thanks elfster, I am really excited to see what this rock river will do. I have maybe 250 rounds through it total now. I am going to work on some different loads and see if I can take the "half MOA all day long" crown.

After the 30 handloads and the 30 american eagle rounds, the barrel got really toasty. If I wasn't so hungry I would have skipped out on dinner and let it cool between groups..LOL
20120910_190749.jpg
 
#203
Re: The AR, 6 groups, 5shots each, 30 round SHOOTOUT!

just an FYI, I just made a shootout#2 which is based more on scope tracking, but group size is just as important. Nice little twist and more fun for everyone. Just something to do at the range. Shootout#2 will really give yourself, rifle, and especially your scope a run for its money. Let me know what you think.
 
#205
Re: The AR, 6 groups, 5shots each, 30 round SHOOTOUT!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cox380</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It would be cool if you made a shootout for the bolt action guys too!</div></div>

yea, say a 300 yard, 4 each 5 shot group, or 6 groups?... but make the distance a little longer. but i know not every one has easy access for 300 yards or more... just thoughts
 
#206
Re: The AR, 6 groups, 5shots each, 30 round SHOOTOUT!

I think the purpose of this thread was to show the true capabilities and limitations of semi-auto rifles. I know when I go to the range, I can occasionally get a sub-1/2 MOA 5 shot group but most are closer to 1 MOA. I now feel a lot better about my rifle and shooting and realize I may be chasing a white rabbit trying to get a semi-auto rifle that will shoot sub-1/2 MOA every time.
 
#207
Re: The AR, 6 groups, 5shots each, 30 round SHOOTOUT!

long distance shootout is coming in due time... thing is not everyone has a 600yard range and many people are limited to 100 to 200yards max....

maybe 300yards, same rules? what do you all think? how would i combine bolt and semi when they have two different forums? would like to get everyone's feedback on this.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JWP6114</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cox380</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It would be cool if you made a shootout for the bolt action guys too!</div></div>

yea, say a 300 yard, 4 each 5 shot group, or 6 groups?... but make the distance a little longer. but i know not every one has easy access for 300 yards or more... just thoughts </div></div>
 
#209
Re: The AR, 6 groups, 5shots each, 30 round SHOOTOUT!

You my friend hit the nail right on the head. Is it possible to do this exercise with .5"moa and under on all 6groups, YES, but is is damn friggen hard. I'll tip my hat to the first person that does it. Operator skill has just as much to do with the potential of the rifle IMO.... I've always said it is 40% skill, 40% rifle, and 20% ammo IMO. I've really come to take the ammo factor into the equation now that I'm reloading and see how much of a difference it really does make in terms of accuracy. People running around on forums saying they run .5"moa ALL DAY LONG bullsh!t only makes people with similar rifles wondering why they do not..... Rather than saying "all day long", it should be more like, "I do .5moa here and there". Most people that use that line are full of BS unless it is with a bolt action per say.

So far, this shootout has been really fun and it is really interesting to see the results so far. Keep it up. Everyone is doing one hell of a job so far. I know I'm not done trying to get the ".5moa" crown listed on the OP. Pushing the extremes of my rifle, personal skill level, and reloading knowledge..... Hell, that is what makes this shootout so damn fun and addictive, but I got a gut feeling the ".5moa crown" will never happen atleast <span style="font-weight: bold">with my semi-auto & current skill level</span>..... BUT, then again you never know................ <span style="color: #FF0000">it is possible!!!</span>


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lennyo3034</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think the purpose of this thread was to show the true capabilities and limitations of semi-auto rifles. I know when I go to the range, I can occasionally get a sub-1/2 MOA 5 shot group but most are closer to 1 MOA. I now feel a lot better about my rifle and shooting and realize I may be chasing a white rabbit trying to get a semi-auto rifle that will shoot sub-1/2 MOA every time. </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: elfster1234</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've kicked thousands of rounds down range and I've produced many groups under .5"moa at 100yards.... hell, some of my groups have been damn near bullets in bullet holes at 100yards, but <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">I'll be the last person to say I do it all day long</span></span>. It really is not that easy with a gas gun and I think this forum thread is really putting some people's perspectives back into reality check. </div></div>
 
#210
Re: The AR, 6 groups, 5shots each, 30 round SHOOTOUT!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: elfster1234</div><div class="ubbcode-body">long distance shootout is coming in due time... thing is not everyone has a 600yard range and many people are limited to 100 to 200yards max....

maybe 300yards, same rules? what do you all think? how would i combine bolt and semi when they have two different forums? would like to get everyone's feedback on this.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JWP6114</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cox380</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It would be cool if you made a shootout for the bolt action guys too!</div></div>

yea, say a 300 yard, 4 each 5 shot group, or 6 groups?... but make the distance a little longer. but i know not every one has easy access for 300 yards or more... just thoughts </div></div> </div></div>


You could combine them in the "Range Report" section of the forum.

Nice thread BTW.
 
#212
Re: The AR, 6 groups, 5shots each, 30 round SHOOTOUT!

Thanks Jon, I'm working some more loads up now. As soon as I get bumped down I should be ready to give it another shot. My last group was over an inch so I know I have room for improvement. I can't wait till you have to shoot an average in the 500's to get in the top 5... competition is what drives us all to try harder.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jon Lester</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mcarnell, Dang good shooting, I have to go and shoot more 5 shot groups now! </div></div>
 
#215
Re: SemiAuto, 6 groups, 5shot each, 30 round SHOOTOUT!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tried for a third time and still can't crack MOA
frown.gif


</div></div>
In the words of POO-POO Broussard..."If at first you dont succeed, STOP DAT"! lol Just kidding... glad to see people are being true sports with this thread.. Just wish i could see some more Gap-10 owners with some "Clank" to prove what they really shoot "all day long"

I keep getting bumped down, looks like ill be returning to the range again tomorrow in an effoT to improve so i don't totally get bumped off of the list....
 
#216
Re: SemiAuto, 6 groups, 5shot each, 30 round SHOOTOUT!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Line-of-Departure</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tried for a third time and still can't crack MOA
frown.gif


</div></div> Just wish i could see some more Gap-10 owners with some "Clank" to prove what they really shoot "all day long"
</div></div>

I just got a gap. It shoots golfballs at a mile all day long. :p

I'm a average shooter. when I do the shootout I am just shooting for 1.5, moa any better and I'm stoked.
 
#217
Re: The AR, 6 groups, 5shots each, 30 round SHOOTOUT!

Hehe,,, oh no!!! I see a brewing battle between Lester vs Mcarnell!!


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jon Lester</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mcarnell, Dang good shooting, I have to go and shoot more 5 shot groups now! </div></div>
 
#218
Re: SemiAuto, 6 groups, 5shot each, 30 round SHOOTOUT!

Finally managed to get to the range! Wind was awful, though. Really just blowing like crazy. I spent half the time chasing my log book as it flew through the air. I'll get another target up once I finish working up a load. These shots were my WS2 barrel conditioning rounds.

Anyways....

dsc6190u.jpg


dsc6197v.jpg


Avg: .874"
Best: .420"

If it weren't for damn group #2.... My fault, though, because I wasn't holding the rear bag consistently. Regardless, no more saying 16" AR's can't shoot accurately!

Also, in case you're wondering, group 1 has 2 shots in the bottom right hole, and group 4 has 3 shots in the right hole.


Rifle (16" compact SPR):
Upper/Lower receivers - S&W MP15 Sport
BCG - S&W MP15 Sport
Troy TRX Extreme 11" FF Rail
Rainier Ultramatch 16" barrel
Armalite 2-stage trigger, 3.5lb
Vortex Viper HS 5-15x44mm
Atlas bipod, TAB rear bag

<span style="text-decoration: line-through">Pics of rifle pending. I meant to take my camera to the range, but I ended up grabbing my camera bag, but not the camera. Duh!</span>

Excuse the dirt, the wind in Utah will do that to a gun.

dsc6231k.jpg



Ammo:

Load 2 (groups 3, 4, dot)
Nosler CC 77gr, WS2
22.0gr Alliant AR-Comp

Load 3 (groups 1, 2, center)
Nosler Varmageddon 55gr, WS2
24.3gr Hodgdon H322
 
#219
Re: SemiAuto, 6 groups, 5shot each, 30 round SHOOTOUT!

This is really good work Temp9! I know you've been talking about doing this since day one of this post on page#1 and it is really nice to see you finally get some numbers posted. Nice job especially with the .420" best single. WTG my friend. Get a pic of your rifle (any pic will work) and you are GTG. Welcome to the leaderboard. The person you just bumped can send you a nice PM!!! Hehehe.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Temp9</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Finally managed to get to the range! Wind was awful, though. Really just blowing like crazy. I spent half the time chasing my log book as it flew through the air. I'll get another target up once I finish working up a load. These shots were my WS2 barrel conditioning rounds.

Anyways....

Avg: .874"
Best: .420"

If it weren't for damn group #2.... My fault, though, because I wasn't holding the rear bag consistently. Regardless, no more saying 16" AR's can't shoot accurately!

Also, in case you're wondering, group 1 has 2 shots in the bottom right hole, and group 4 has 3 shots in the right hole.


Rifle (16" compact SPR):
Upper/Lower receivers - S&W MP15 Sport
BCG - S&W MP15 Sport
Troy TRX Extreme 11" FF Rail
Rainier Ultramatch 16" barrel
Armalite 2-stage trigger, 3.5lb
Vortex Viper HS 5-15x44mm
Atlas bipod, TAB rear bag

Pics of rifle pending. I meant to take my camera to the range, but I ended up grabbing my camera bag, but not the camera. Duh!


Ammo:

Load 2 (groups 3, 4, dot)
Nosler CC 77gr, WS2
22.0gr Alliant AR-Comp

Load 3 (groups 1, 2, center)
Nosler Varmageddon 55gr, WS2
24.3gr Hodgdon H322
</div></div>
 
#221
Re: SemiAuto, 6 groups, 5shot each, 30 round SHOOTOUT!

Thanks, Elfster. Great job with this thread, by the way. Not only an awesome idea, but also very well maintained/managed. Well done, sir.
 
#222
Re: SemiAuto, 6 groups, 5shot each, 30 round SHOOTOUT!

Here's mine I just shot with my LR-308 16"
Nothing to brag about here but it's still fun. I'll try again soon.

JP Super Match SS bbl
JP LMOS BCG
JP single stage 4#
Slash's Car 10-XH
UBR, MIAD
JD Machine receiver set & free float HG
SS 12x42

with my reloads;
168 A-Max
H4895 43.6 gr
Winchester cases
CCI BR2
2.810" OAL
70F

Shot from bench to 100 yards off of range barrel rest and sand bag under butt.


1) 0.883"
2) 1.173"
3) 1.6815"
4) 1.191"
5) 0.7985"
6) 1.2425"
Average = 1.1616"

IMG_0796.jpg

IMG_0792.jpg

IMG_0778.jpg
 
#223
Re: SemiAuto, 6 groups, 5shot each, 30 round SHOOTOUT!

awesome job NoFail! Man, I love the look of your rifle. It is screaming bad ass to the bone. Good shooting. Looking forward to your 2nd attempt.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NoFail</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here's mine I just shot with my LR-308 16"
Nothing to brag about here but it's still fun. I'll try again soon.

JP Super Match SS bbl
JP LMOS BCG
JP single stage 4#
Slash's Car 10-XH
UBR, MIAD
JD Machine receiver set & free float HG
SS 12x42

with my reloads;
168 A-Max
H4895 43.6 gr
Winchester cases
CCI BR2
2.810" OAL
70F

Shot from bench to 100 yards off of range barrel rest and sand bag under butt.


1) 0.883"
2) 1.173"
3) 1.6815"
4) 1.191"
5) 0.7985"
6) 1.2425"
Average = 1.1616"
</div></div>
 
#224
Re: SemiAuto, 6 groups, 5shot each, 30 round SHOOTOUT!

Awe shucks.... Hehe, thanks Elfster. Yeah that gun gets the attention at the range for sure. Yesterday at range I had the honor of letting a Marine handle it, kid just got out of boot camp. He was loving it and so was I.

I'll be back soon with another attempt at this. I'm already working on loading up the next groups..... This is awesome because it gives me more excuse to go out and shoot, I need trigger time...
 
#225
Re: SemiAuto, 6 groups, 5shot each, 30 round SHOOTOUT!

Awesome idea and great thread!

I think its time for a wildcat to jump on board. ill try to get my 25AR out after i finish up with my 204 load development. Hopefully ill have some quarter bore targets next weekend.
 
#228
Re: SemiAuto, 6 groups, 5shot each, 30 round SHOOTOUT!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PowerstrokeOBX</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blwn99x</div><div class="ubbcode-body">heading to range in about 30 mins...
smile.gif
</div></div>

And?</div></div>
Drum role please..................we are waiting...
 
#229
Re: SemiAuto, 6 groups, 5shot each, 30 round SHOOTOUT!

yeah no kidding!! post that $hit!! Hehehe, JK.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Line-of-Departure</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PowerstrokeOBX</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blwn99x</div><div class="ubbcode-body">heading to range in about 30 mins...
smile.gif
</div></div>

And?</div></div>
Drum role please..................we are waiting... </div></div>
 
#232
Re: SemiAuto, 6 groups, 5shot each, 30 round SHOOTOUT!

Finally got out to do this. A little disappointed as I've done this exercise before with better results, but I guess that was just a better day. I'll try it again soon, maybe with irons next time.

Rifle is a custom rifle built on an LRB M25 receiver. My wood rifle is actually more accurate, but has no optics since it's used for service rifle competitions. I'll try it next time. Was shooting right around MOA, except one group killed it.

EB9D8336-24D1-4C1B-A064-743A7618643D-321-000002BF2C6E8E0E.jpg

B35043D4-E4F6-4F56-86C1-A2B3CB1C6D12-321-000002BF34D79676.jpg


2AFF410C-B1D7-4368-AF71-403DC7F22DA5-321-000002BF21DE1A1C.jpg
 
#236
Re: SemiAuto, 6 groups, 5shot each, 30 round SHOOTOUT!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lennyo3034</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
2AFF410C-B1D7-4368-AF71-403DC7F22DA5-321-000002BF21DE1A1C.jpg
</div></div>

Someone may have mentioned this already in this thread, but some people are measuring with the calipers from center to center from the two furthest shots on the target and some are measuring the outer edges of the shots like above. Measuring center to center would make your MOA slightly smaller wouldn't it?
 
#239
Re: SemiAuto, 6 groups, 5shot each, 30 round SHOOTOUT!

Friggen nice job Lennyo!! So nice having a M1 in the mix! Nice rifle and nice shooting. Welcome to the leader boards!

BTW everyone,,, <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #FF0000">WE ARE NOW SUB-MOA ALL ACROSS THE ENTIRE BOARD</span></span></span> thanks to Lennyo3034. Good work!


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lennyo3034</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Finally got out to do this. A little disappointed as I've done this exercise before with better results, but I guess that was just a better day. I'll try it again soon, maybe with irons next time.

Rifle is a custom rifle built on an LRB M25 receiver. My wood rifle is actually more accurate, but has no optics since it's used for service rifle competitions. I'll try it next time. Was shooting right around MOA, except one group killed it.
</div></div>
 
#241
Re: SemiAuto, 6 groups, 5shot each, 30 round SHOOTOUT!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mcarnell82</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Correct, there are 3 ways to measure

Center to center,
Outside to outside minus bullet diameter
And inside to outside </div></div>

Technically, if you do the second method, you should subtract the measured hole diameter. The hole is usually a fair amount smaller than the bullet, so subtracting the bullet diameter gives you a smaller group size than actual.
 
#242
Re: SemiAuto, 6 groups, 5shot each, 30 round SHOOTOUT!

Thanks to Mr Joshua for this wonderful idea... I've added this to the orginal post as ONLY 2 people have done it so far. WTG and good job to both Crashnrondo and Nakas.. See, the rest of us are just lucky ass bastards!


<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="color: #993399">HONORABLE MENTION, This person can actually shoot SUB-MOA ALL DAY LONG board (all 6groups are under 1" @ 100yards).... the rest of us are just lucky a$$ bastards, LOL JK!!!</span></span></span>
- Crashnrondo, 16" RRA MID w/YHM LOWER 5.56, (.842" average), shot on (09/03/12), post on page#4
- Nakas , 20" OBR 7.62 , (.795" average) , shot on (08/29/12) , post on page#2
 
#243
Re: SemiAuto, 6 groups, 5shot each, 30 round SHOOTOUT!

Here is my first try.

Rifle:
Precision Firearms billet upper
.264 LBC-AR (Grendel) 24" bull barrel
LBC bolt carrier group
Spike's Tactical billet lower
Geissele High Speed Match (2 lb, 1 lb)
TBAC 30p-1 suppressor

Load:
123 gr SMK
29 gr AA2540
Lapua 3x fired brass
Wolf SR-223 primer

IMG_8096.jpg


IMG_8098.jpg

IMG_8103.jpg


P.S. shot off the bipod and rear bag from a bench.
 
#246
Re: SemiAuto, 6 groups, 5shot each, 30 round SHOOTOUT!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: stillsmokin875</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Someone may have mentioned this already in this thread, but some people are measuring with the calipers from center to center from the two furthest shots on the target and some are measuring the outer edges of the shots like above. Measuring center to center would make your MOA slightly smaller wouldn't it? </div></div>

It's hard to say definitively one way or the other. There is some elasticity in the paper, so the "black ring" is often smaller than the projectile diameter, resulting in a tighter reading. However, center-to-center is subject to where your eye says "center" is.
 
#248
Re: SemiAuto, 6 groups, 5shot each, 30 round SHOOTOUT!

When the group is clustered tightly I find it harder to tell where the center truly is. I measured outside to outside because I felt it was more conservative (larger). Measuring center to center I get roughly the same measurement maybe a little smaller, but thought the outside to outside was easier to see in the photo.

I usually measure using On Target software, but that was not an option listed.

If I need to remeasure please let me know.
 
#249
Re: SemiAuto, 6 groups, 5shot each, 30 round SHOOTOUT!

Well I have tried 2 times to get in on this. Every time I go to the range someone blasts my target with their AR.

Any suggestions on how to keep the idiots from shooting your target? It would be nice to get my 4 dollars back for the target stand deposit but every time it gets shot up. Even when I am out with my AI it still gets hit. I know I can't miss by 16 inches at 100 yards with that rifle!
 
#250
Re: SemiAuto, 6 groups, 5shot each, 30 round SHOOTOUT!

OMG, that would piss me off so bad.. How can someone be that bad at shooting when they are hitting your friggen target. Wow.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Napsters</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well I have tried 2 times to get in on this. Every time I go to the range someone blasts my target with their AR.

Any suggestions on how to keep the idiots from shooting your target? It would be nice to get my 4 dollars back for the target stand deposit but every time it gets shot up. Even when I am out with my AI it still gets hit. I know I can't miss by 16 inches at 100 yards with that rifle! </div></div>
 
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