Range Report 115gr DTAC RBT Gen 2 problems?

[jzerfoss]

The first version of the RBT DTACs shot incredible for me and several people I know then I noticed worse accuracy and more fliers with the second generation of the RBT DTACs. I know I'm not the only one as I've talked to several DTAC lovers that no longer use them. For those who don't know what I'm talking there are 2 versions of the rebated boattail. Gen 1 being the more abrupt boattail transition Gen 2 being more smooth/curved.

Has anyone on here noticed the lose in accuracy and consistency?

 

[MakeSawdust]

There has been a long standing discussion on this since shortly after they came out. I do not know what the hell the deal is with the new boattail. It is like a hybrid. I always thought either the die wore out or the process was changed by Sierra to make it easier to mass produce.

There are other issues as well. The size of the meplats are not consistent lot to lot. This caused some bc variation for me from lot to lot. Tubb has posted the pointing OPERATION had been performed on all bullets. The problem is that I don't think Sierra was pointing them consistently. The process had definitely been done.

I will defend Tubb and SSS a little bit. A lot of times when a big company is making something for a small company it is delivered on an as is contract basis. That would mean that it is possible (likely) that SSS would have to eat the cost of rejected lots of bullets. If the goal is to have a decent match bullet at an affordable price then there is only so much that can be done. I'm sure they can be sorted by every possible variable and sold and packaged that way, but you would likely have to pay custom bullet prices for them.

I feel that the accuracy is on par, or sometimes better than, the price being charged. I will agree that the first few lots were absolute lasers and were a very good value for the way they shot. I had very little trouble getting them to shoot in the high .2's and low .3's. Some of the lots since then have not been as good. I have never had an issue getting them to shoot at or under .5 moa. They shoot pretty well at a .010 to .020 jump and also a .010 jam. They are also very jump tolerant. I have been developing loads with a .040 jump which is another good spot. My load just opened up to around .6 to .7 moa. I checked the jump to rework the load and it was over .110". The load shot good from .040 jump all the way to probably .095 or .100 jump before it opened up.

Overall, I'm very satisfied with them, but you are right, they have not consistently remained as good as the first few lots. It would be great if every lot would bug hole, but that doesn't seem reasonable to me for what Tubb is charging. They are a well designed bullet being produced by Sierra to their quality standards and Tubb is selling them for less than comparable Sierra bullets go for. I personally see a lot of benefits to them and have no issues getting them to shoot well.

 

[LawnMM]

Two words for ya: Berger Bullets

 

[jzerfoss]

Two words for ya: Berger Bullets

Haven't heard great things about the 109s. I would rather they just make the DTACs awesome again.

 

[LawnMM]

 

[MakeSawdust]

I have never had any problems with Berger bullets. I have also heard very little negative about them. A lot of times they will turn a .5 moa gun into a .25 moa gun at short range for me. They are definitely a step up in quality over most mass produced bullets. You also pay for it (as you should). Typically, a quarter minute gun isn't needed to win a tactical match.

 

[PAYDIRT]

I have never had any problems with Berger bullets. I have also heard very little negative about them. A lot of times they will turn a .5 moa gun into a .25 moa gun at short range for me. They are definitely a step up in quality over most mass produced bullets. You also pay for it (as you should). Typically, a quarter minute gun isn't needed to win a tactical match.

Spot on. Tons of ".25 MOA" guns finishing mid pack.

 

[mmlook]

Haven't heard great things about the 109s. I would rather they just make the DTACs awesome again.

tried 3 lots of the 109’s so far, they seem to have almost as much variation compared to DTACs

i shoot both, pretty much exclusively.

seems like the key is to buy 2-3k at a time and hope you end up with a decent lot

 

[LawnMM]

The 109s are part of Berger's long range target hybrid line that they're holding to under 1% BC variation across lots.

Pretty sure I've personally seen more than that and then some from DTACs and it's why we occasionally see the 'the DTACs don't shoot like they used to?' threads popping up.

Takes some of ya'll months or years to burn through a couple boxes you bought early. Others burned through them a lot faster, got skunked by the new version, and moved on.

But hey, maybe if there's enough crying they'll just make em great again just for you!

I learned my lesson, every time I tried to cheat on Berger with a side bullet I regretted it. Now I'm faithful.

 

[mmlook]

The 109s are part of Berger's long range target hybrid line that they're holding to under 1% BC variation across lots.

Pretty sure I've personally seen more than that and then some from DTACs and it's why we occasionally see the 'the DTACs don't shoot like they used to?' threads popping up.

Takes some of ya'll months or years to burn through a couple boxes you bought early. Others burned through them a lot faster, got skunked by the new version, and moved on.

But hey, maybe if there's enough crying they'll just make em great again just for you!

I learned my lesson, every time I tried to cheat on Berger with a side bullet I regretted it. Now I'm faithful.

that's why I said almost

so far of the 3 lots tested on the 109's
- BC range: 0.295-0.305, which is about 3%

for DTACs, I've shot 4 lots, all with the RBT design
- BC range: 0.294-0.310

all trued at 1k on paper

 

[jzerfoss]

The 109s are part of Berger's long range target hybrid line that they're holding to under 1% BC variation across lots.

Pretty sure I've personally seen more than that and then some from DTACs and it's why we occasionally see the 'the DTACs don't shoot like they used to?' threads popping up.

Takes some of ya'll months or years to burn through a couple boxes you bought early. Others burned through them a lot faster, got skunked by the new version, and moved on.

But hey, maybe if there's enough crying they'll just make em great again just for you!

I learned my lesson, every time I tried to cheat on Berger with a side bullet I regretted it. Now I'm faithful.

I must have missed the other threads like mine because I actually searched. The whole "DTACs don't shoot like the used to" isn't just based off 1 lot of each and just my experience. It's 1000s of each generation over multiple lots and the opinions other shooters that have been using them for years. So I'm very sure it's a design issue since most of the issues started after the change. This wasn't a new revelation for me since I got these new generation back in 2017. I just started the thread to see how many others noticed what me and quite a few people have. I have no interest in starting a Berger vs DTAC thread.

 

[LawnMM]

There's been a slew of threads over the last year or two about the DTACs. The comments were directed at mmlook

 

[mmlook]

There's been a slew of threads over the last year or two about the DTACs. The comments were directed at mmlook

i think you mean the other dude

no crying from me

like i said, I shoot both.

 

[LawnMM]

i think you mean the other dude

no crying from me

like i said, I shoot both.

Nah, I mean you. Saying the 109s have the variation of the DTACs or 'even close' has not been my experience or that of those in my circle. Hence my response.

 

[mmlook]

Nah, I mean you. Saying the 109s have the variation of the DTACs or 'even close' has not been my experience or that of those in my circle. Hence my response.

they definitely have variation.
pretty close to DTACs lot to lot.
maybe that will get better as they make more

let’s keep it on topic,
DTACs
I have had a couple low BC lots, and they do have maybe 5-10% inconsistent meplat

if you’re shooting paper, or you care about group sizes at distance.
you need to sort the lot

 

[LawnMM]

Tried a group with 109s when I first got some, to check the drag curve, at 1040yds, 1.5" on the water line. I don't see the need to sort anything but to each his own.

 

[jzerfoss]

Yes we understand you like Bergers..... This thread is not about Bergers.....

 

[mmlook]

op,

can you measure the boat tail length?

on my current lot, i’m getting 0.210”
looks like the one on the right.

just got a new barrel, and shot DTACs this past weekend, cause that’s what i had loaded.

accuracy wise, they are equal to my old lots.
I do see a flier every 20 or so, nothing crazy.
maybe 0.6moa including the flier

 

[LawnMM]

Yes we understand you like Bergers..... This thread is not about Bergers.....

Right. I forgot. It's about a bullet everybody loved the first batch of, has hated the later batches, but you still want to use because? Shit, I'm still confused.

 

[mmlook]

Right. I forgot. It's about a bullet everybody loved the first batch of, has hated the later batches, but you still want to use because? Shit, I'm still confused.

because it still wins matches...

 

[Average guy]

I got a newer lot of DTACS and my consistency went away. I’ve tried everything I can think of. The bto measurements are .020 longer than the previous lot. I’ve transitioned to Barnes 112 match burners. The are very consistent and my group sizes and hits on steel at distance reflect that

 

[jzerfoss]

op,

can you measure the boat tail length?

on my current lot, i’m getting 0.210”
looks like the one on the right.

just got a new barrel, and shot DTACs this past weekend, cause that’s what i had loaded.

accuracy wise, they are equal to my old lots.
I do see a flier every 20 or so, nothing crazy.
maybe 0.6moa including the flier

I can do that when I get home

 

[jzerfoss]

Right. I forgot. It's about a bullet everybody loved the first batch of, has hated the later batches, but you still want to use because? Shit, I'm still confused.

Wasn't a "first batch".... It was 3 generations and many many years of great consistent bullets. I just wish they would go back a generation and again wanted to see who else was having issues with the current generation. I can tell you are confused so please move on since you obviously have nothing useful to add to the topic.

 

[PAYDIRT]

I got a newer lot of DTACS and my consistency went away. I’ve tried everything I can think of. The bto measurements are .020 longer than the previous lot. I’ve transitioned to Barnes 112 match burners. The are very consistent and my group sizes and hits on steel at distance reflect that

Base to ogive on the 112's if you have the Hornady tool and the time please.

 

[LawnMM]

I'm confused why anyone would tolerate the bullshit that's been pulled with this line of bullets but I guess that's my fault Can't quite get my head that far up my ass to see this topic from your perspective.

There's been issues with these on an ongoing basis. That's been confirmed in thread after thread. You asked. If you don't like the answer I'm not sure what to tell you.

You seem to want somebody to tell you it's going to be alright again and your binky bullet will return to it's former glory.

Ship's sinking, start swimming or grow gills.

 

[jzerfoss]

I got a newer lot of DTACS and my consistency went away. I’ve tried everything I can think of. The bto measurements are .020 longer than the previous lot. I’ve transitioned to Barnes 112 match burners. The are very consistent and my group sizes and hits on steel at distance reflect that

I have some 112s that I only tried on 1 barrel and it wasn't good but I'm getting my 6 creed rebarreled so I'll probably give them a try again.

 

[jzerfoss]

I'm confused why anyone would tolerate the bullshit that's been pulled with this line of bullets but I guess that's my fault Can't quite get my head that far up my ass to see this topic from your perspective.

There's been issues with these on an ongoing basis. That's been confirmed in thread after thread. You asked. If you don't like the answer I'm not sure what to tell you.

You seem to want somebody to tell you it's going to be alright again and your binky bullet will return to it's former glory.

Ship's sinking, start swimming or grow gills.

I understand you seem to be very dense and have a hard time with simple concepts. One of the many ways problems like this get addressed is via social media when a group of people ask and talk about an ongoing issues. Some of these discussions actually lead to further product testing and even change when manufacturers find enough discontent. Almost all of the major bullet manufacturers face issues like this with a bullet from time to time including Berger. So if you don't like the topic or it's content please leave and further ignore it instead of beating the dead horse of useless posting.

 

[MakeSawdust]

This topic had been discussed pretty heavily on social media/forums. The main person that it would seem could fix it either isn't in a position to, because of the attitudes of those at Sierra, or he refuses to open his ears and listen and admit that things aren't what they used to be.

 

[Lunchbox27]

My experience with the DTACs weren’t good. My 6 Creed, 26” 7.5t Proof barrel with .184 freebore couldn’t get them to group. I’m talking 4-5” shot gun spread at 100 yards. I was honestly stumped. The barrel, with 105 Hybrids and 108 ELD never shot over 3/4”, but I simply couldn’t these to work.

I’m holding onto the lot for my next barrel to see if it simply didn’t like them, but that far of a spread seems very odd to me. It was a mild charge, too... 39.7 and 40.0 grains of H4350 in Hornady brass, 20thou off.

 

[LawnMM]

The barrel, with 105 Hybrids and 108 ELD never shot over 3/4”, but I simply couldn’t these to work.

tHiS iSnT a BeRgEr ThReAd

 

[jzerfoss]

My experience with the DTACs weren’t good. My 6 Creed, 26” 7.5t Proof barrel with .184 freebore couldn’t get them to group. I’m talking 4-5” shot gun spread at 100 yards. I was honestly stumped. The barrel, with 105 Hybrids and 108 ELD never shot over 3/4”, but I simply couldn’t these to work.

I’m holding onto the lot for my next barrel to see if it simply didn’t like them, but that far of a spread seems very odd to me. It was a mild charge, too... 39.7 and 40.0 grains of H4350 in Hornady brass, 20thou off.

I've never seen groups that bad from anything that wasn't a Soviet design, really old, or really cheap.... DTACs have shot the best for me around 2940 and 3100 fps in the past but even the newest version hover around .75" for me with some groups being a bit better. Sounds like another issue if you are shooting 4-5".

 

[30cal user]

There is a new design out and only $.33 per bullet.....

 

[Average guy]

Base to ogive on the 112's if you have the Hornady tool and the time please.

.698 BTO on the 112 match burners

 

[Average guy]

I'm confused why anyone would tolerate the bullshit that's been pulled with this line of bullets but I guess that's my fault Can't quite get my head that far up my ass to see this topic from your perspective.

There's been issues with these on an ongoing basis. That's been confirmed in thread after thread. You asked. If you don't like the answer I'm not sure what to tell you.

You seem to want somebody to tell you it's going to be alright again and your binky bullet will return to it's former glory.

Ship's sinking, start swimming or grow gills.

You haven’t contributed a damn thing to the discussion but telling everyone how great Berger bullets are. Everyone knows they make great bullets, but it seems you have an unnatural relationship with them. Go somewhere else.

 

[Average guy]

Base to ogive on the 112's if you have the Hornady tool and the time please.

I think you will like them. They seem a lot like the old dtacs

 

[LawnMM]

You haven’t contributed a damn thing

Not true, I've contributed at least two names to my ignore list

 

[Average guy]

Not true, I've contributed at least two names to my ignore list

Glad I could irritate you

 

[GNCC407]

Just encountered this exact problem. Old lot is way different than my newly purchased lot. Old lot to the lands measured 2.201 cbto new lot measures 2.233 cbto.

 

[GNCC407]

Just encountered this exact problem. Old lot is way different than my newly purchased lot.

 

[Average guy]

I ran into the same issue. I fought it a little bit but ultimately moved on to Barnes 112 match burners. The act almost identical to the older dtacs.

 

[kthomas]

You haven’t contributed a damn thing to the discussion but telling everyone how great Berger bullets are. Everyone knows they make great bullets, but it seems you have an unnatural relationship with them. Go somewhere else.

I think his point is a pretty solid one.

The DTACS have obvious issues, nothing that is going to change through discussion in this thread. Nothing that gets said here will automatically change the projectiles and make them better performers.

You have two options:

1. Keep using the DTAC's and put up with their shitty inconsistent performance.
2. Switch to another bullet that's a better and a more consistent performer.

I'm with @LawnMM, I don't get why this is so difficult. It's almost like some of you are sadistic and enjoy the punishment of shitty performing projectiles.

The reason why Bergers keep getting brought up is that for a mass produced factory bullet they are very consistent. Personally I can't think of another mass produced projectile brand that has as good of a balance of performance and consistency. Every time I try a different brand, I end up disappointed and come back to Bergers.

I don't give a flying fuck what you guys choose to shoot. @LawnMM gave a very solid alternative that consistently shoots well. Personally I would prefer it if you hard headed fucktards stick with the DTAC's, more Bergers for me, but I think @LawnMM was genuinely trying to help you guys out.

 

[Average guy]

I moved on long ago. I believe the op was looking to see if it was just his lot or if all subsequent lots were bad. Thanks for the input.

 

[PAYDIRT]

Gonna try the Match Burners.

 

[Average guy]

Gonna try the Match Burners.

They have been my solution

 

[PAYDIRT]

They have been my solution

Hope I can get a load quick, 6 Creedmoor and it only gets action during a match. I have a identical 223 to play with, I don't mind burning a barrel but I prefer to do it while I'm donating $.

 

[jzerfoss]

I moved on long ago. I believe the op was looking to see if it was just his lot or if all subsequent lots were bad. Thanks for the input.

@Average guy I think what we are seeing here is the internet version of those random guys that will interrupt a conversation just to interject their opinion to make themselves feel important....

I was more so talking about actual design changes that seemed to lead to performance decrease than lot to lot inconstancy. Not to mention Berger has plenty of reports of lot to lot inconsistencies sooo Kind of problem that most all mass production bullets have unfortunately.

Anyway, they are probably right that talking about it on here won't lead to anything changing but not talking about definitely won't do anything. At least more people may read this and avoid a potential headache. Kinda like Hornadys problem with bullets blowing up... People were in denial for years that it was a Hornady problem. Now we know it's a Hornady problem and Hornady knows yet apparently they aren't fixing the issue.

 

[morganlamprecht]

Range Report - Trued out the 115 RBT DTAC today

I trued out the 115 DTAC today. 6 Dasher chrono'd at 2916fps with a 5.6fps SD using a MS V3. Confirmed zero and shifted to a 1010m berm. Held 7.8mrad with a S&B Trmr 2; no dialing. Need .3mrad for SD at that distance and held a total .7mrad of wind left so no AJ component. This trued the G1 to...

www.snipershide.com

 

[Average guy]

@Average guy I think what we are seeing here is the internet version of those random guys that will interrupt a conversation just to interject their opinion to make themselves feel important....

I was more so talking about actual design changes that seemed to lead to performance decrease than lot to lot inconstancy. Not to mention Berger has plenty of reports of lot to lot inconsistencies sooo Kind of problem that most all mass production bullets have unfortunately.

Anyway, they are probably right that talking about it on here won't lead to anything changing but not talking about definitely won't do anything. At least more people may read this and avoid a potential headache. Kinda like Hornadys problem with bullets blowing up... People were in denial for years that it was a Hornady problem. Now we know it's a Hornady problem and Hornady knows yet apparently they aren't fixing the issue.

I agree 100 percent. You always run into a someone that’s way smarter than you are. I fo hope it helps others. I had 2000 dtacs of my old lot number and they were stellar. Ordered a new batch and that’s when the problem started. Hopefully people will turn to the other available heavy 6mm bullets. I find the 112 Barnes almost identical to the old dtacs in performance. Hear a lot of good things about the 115 rdf also.

 

[jzerfoss]

I agree 100 percent. You always run into a someone that’s way smarter than you are. I fo hope it helps others. I had 2000 dtacs of my old lot number and they were stellar. Ordered a new batch and that’s when the problem started. Hopefully people will turn to the other available heavy 6mm bullets. I find the 112 Barnes almost identical to the old dtacs in performance. Hear a lot of good things about the 115 rdf also.

I tried the 112s in 1 barrel but they didn't shoot well. I haven't tried them in my newest barrel so I may give them another try.

 

[mmlook]

I tried the 112s in 1 barrel but they didn't shoot well. I haven't tried them in my newest barrel so I may give them another try.

there's a decent amount of variation in the 112's as well, lot to lot

I've shot 2 lots, one was good, the other not so much.
ended up exchanging them after me and 5-6 other people in our club couldn't get them to group better than 0.8moa

seems like the common factor is pointed bullets.

I can't imagine pointing is an easy process at the speed/volume the bullet manufactures are trying to do them at.