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1410 Yards 7WSM
- Thread starter citabria
- Start date
Re: 1410 Yards 7WSM
It does not count when you shoot 50 rounds at the target and then measure the closest three........
It does not count when you shoot 50 rounds at the target and then measure the closest three........
Re: 1410 Yards 7WSM
I guess you moron's probably only have and IQ of about 2. Kind of like a dating site where you would think there would be one woman for every man instead there are two women and 10,000 men you guys are one of those men. No experience and cant get it up. Maybe someone can comment with a little higher IQ. I thought there were more professonals on here.
I guess you moron's probably only have and IQ of about 2. Kind of like a dating site where you would think there would be one woman for every man instead there are two women and 10,000 men you guys are one of those men. No experience and cant get it up. Maybe someone can comment with a little higher IQ. I thought there were more professonals on here.
Re: 1410 Yards 7WSM
Do you even realize what the world record is at 1000 yrds. let alone you expect us to believe this crap at 1410 yrds......
I do not think you are smart in fact you have to be twice as dumb as us, to think we would even believe the crap your pushing.
Do you even realize what the world record is at 1000 yrds. let alone you expect us to believe this crap at 1410 yrds......
I do not think you are smart in fact you have to be twice as dumb as us, to think we would even believe the crap your pushing.
Re: 1410 Yards 7WSM
When we are shooting long distances (1,000 yards and beyond) and posting results, I think it's a good idea to really add the details and a target if possible.
My son shot my 338 edge as I spotted a few months ago at 1,450 yards. 3 shots landed just under 1/2 moa for a 7 inch group. However the first shot was 2 moa high as we didnt initally see the lift that was created as the wind went up the mountain. So in reality, it was a four shot group with the one miss (high). We later moved and shot the same target at just over 1,600 yards. One shot was 2 moa high as the wind was creating a lift on and off and then one shot was low as the drift stopped and we didn't see it in time and it was in the dirt if front of the target. However in the string two shots landed just over 1/2 moa for a 10 inch spread, with the third shot right on the right edege of the target.
This distance really tests your skills in doping the wind. Very little changes can effect the bullet at these distances and you got to have a spotter. Without a spotter at this distance, I think you would really be wasting alot of lead.
We tie flags at the target site and this helps a ton when you're dealing with changing wind conditions.
Antoher thing I noticed...My 338 edge shoot right through 3/8 inch mild steel at 983 yards, but once we go out to 1,400 yards, the bullets just bounce right off the target.
I never posted this a few months ago, cause I could not post the target..The target really does add credibility to your post. But because I could not meet the snipershide guide lines (5 shot group past 300 yards), I could not post it.
I think if your're gonna post just raw data with out a target as proof, it might be good to include some of the following...
338 edge
2800 fps
H1000 powder
10 thous off the lands
CCI 250 LRM primers
300 smk
wind was 2-5 mph right to left
And better details about the shot like...1 shot I doped 2 moa left for wind....2nd shot wind died,,no dope...etc etc etc
zman
When we are shooting long distances (1,000 yards and beyond) and posting results, I think it's a good idea to really add the details and a target if possible.
My son shot my 338 edge as I spotted a few months ago at 1,450 yards. 3 shots landed just under 1/2 moa for a 7 inch group. However the first shot was 2 moa high as we didnt initally see the lift that was created as the wind went up the mountain. So in reality, it was a four shot group with the one miss (high). We later moved and shot the same target at just over 1,600 yards. One shot was 2 moa high as the wind was creating a lift on and off and then one shot was low as the drift stopped and we didn't see it in time and it was in the dirt if front of the target. However in the string two shots landed just over 1/2 moa for a 10 inch spread, with the third shot right on the right edege of the target.
This distance really tests your skills in doping the wind. Very little changes can effect the bullet at these distances and you got to have a spotter. Without a spotter at this distance, I think you would really be wasting alot of lead.
We tie flags at the target site and this helps a ton when you're dealing with changing wind conditions.
Antoher thing I noticed...My 338 edge shoot right through 3/8 inch mild steel at 983 yards, but once we go out to 1,400 yards, the bullets just bounce right off the target.
I never posted this a few months ago, cause I could not post the target..The target really does add credibility to your post. But because I could not meet the snipershide guide lines (5 shot group past 300 yards), I could not post it.
I think if your're gonna post just raw data with out a target as proof, it might be good to include some of the following...
338 edge
2800 fps
H1000 powder
10 thous off the lands
CCI 250 LRM primers
300 smk
wind was 2-5 mph right to left
And better details about the shot like...1 shot I doped 2 moa left for wind....2nd shot wind died,,no dope...etc etc etc
zman
Re: 1410 Yards 7WSM
Shoot1760, you said wind was 2-5 right to left. What is the wind drift in your bullet with 1 mph change at 1600 yrds????
Shoot1760, you said wind was 2-5 right to left. What is the wind drift in your bullet with 1 mph change at 1600 yrds????
Re: 1410 Yards 7WSM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: citabria</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I guess you moron's probably only have and IQ of about 2. Kind of like a dating site where you would think there would be one woman for every man instead there are two women and 10,000 men you guys are one of those men. No experience and cant get it up. Maybe someone can comment with a little higher IQ. I thought there were more professonals on here. </div></div>
Wow. It's late right now so not many on the boards but, when they see this, you'd better have the flame suit on
This may even get you some time off to think about it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: citabria</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I guess you moron's probably only have and IQ of about 2. Kind of like a dating site where you would think there would be one woman for every man instead there are two women and 10,000 men you guys are one of those men. No experience and cant get it up. Maybe someone can comment with a little higher IQ. I thought there were more professonals on here. </div></div>
Wow. It's late right now so not many on the boards but, when they see this, you'd better have the flame suit on
This may even get you some time off to think about it.
Re: 1410 Yards 7WSM
Thunderbolt...I don't have my log book, but my Xbal calls for about 7.75 moa on a 3 or 9 oclock wind at 10mph. A 1 mph change on the Xbal says .75, but I don't calculate like that.
In my shooting school we were taught for fast calculating to always get the 10mph number and work down.
Ie, If im shooting at 1,000 and my xbal calls for 4.25 on a 9 oclock 10 mph wind, in my head I just cut it in half if I think the wind is 5 mph and wing the bullet.
I do the same for lift and drops..If Im shooting 1000 yards across the canyon and I see a 5 mph wind across half the distance and its going up hill the target, I simply take the 4.25 for the 10 mph,,,cut it in half (roughly 2 moa for the 5 mph) then cut in half again for half the distance (500 yards) and now Im at 1 moa adjustment for lift.
This is what we were taught and it's really works well.
The example that I gave at the bottom of my earlier post was just an example for the other guy. I don't have my log book for the 1,450 and the 1,600 yard shots, but suffice to say that most times we are not on target on first and sometimes the second target at these long distance cause of the wind either left or right and often the lift and and the lack of lift when it changes can eat your lunch
zman
Thunderbolt...I don't have my log book, but my Xbal calls for about 7.75 moa on a 3 or 9 oclock wind at 10mph. A 1 mph change on the Xbal says .75, but I don't calculate like that.
In my shooting school we were taught for fast calculating to always get the 10mph number and work down.
Ie, If im shooting at 1,000 and my xbal calls for 4.25 on a 9 oclock 10 mph wind, in my head I just cut it in half if I think the wind is 5 mph and wing the bullet.
I do the same for lift and drops..If Im shooting 1000 yards across the canyon and I see a 5 mph wind across half the distance and its going up hill the target, I simply take the 4.25 for the 10 mph,,,cut it in half (roughly 2 moa for the 5 mph) then cut in half again for half the distance (500 yards) and now Im at 1 moa adjustment for lift.
This is what we were taught and it's really works well.
The example that I gave at the bottom of my earlier post was just an example for the other guy. I don't have my log book for the 1,450 and the 1,600 yard shots, but suffice to say that most times we are not on target on first and sometimes the second target at these long distance cause of the wind either left or right and often the lift and and the lack of lift when it changes can eat your lunch
zman
Re: 1410 Yards 7WSM
One thing about world records....They are subject to change, and there aint just one!!
Below are some posts from Lawton Machines web page....
<span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">Barney Lawton's 17lb gun record was a perfect score record that measured 5.327. It was broke this year by Matt Kline using a Lawton barrel.
Cody finch owns the 17lb 1000 yard world record with a 3.838” group.
Ken Brucklacher has the score record with a 8X 100 score with a 3.137” group with a Lawton action.</span></span>
One more thing to keep in mind here when folks post...If the record is say 4 inch group at 1,000, thats just under 1/2 moa.
There are folks on here and offline that I talk to that speak of 1/2 moa groups at 1,000,,,,1400,,,1600 yards etc...I think that most like to talk about these great groups they shoot, but many of them forget to tell you they winged another 2 or 3 bullets just to get on target. So when I hear this or see this, in most cases Im assuming they are not counting the walk in's. If they counted the walk in's...holy cow, these small groups go way way out there.....
my .02 cents
zman
One thing about world records....They are subject to change, and there aint just one!!
Below are some posts from Lawton Machines web page....
<span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">Barney Lawton's 17lb gun record was a perfect score record that measured 5.327. It was broke this year by Matt Kline using a Lawton barrel.
Cody finch owns the 17lb 1000 yard world record with a 3.838” group.
Ken Brucklacher has the score record with a 8X 100 score with a 3.137” group with a Lawton action.</span></span>
One more thing to keep in mind here when folks post...If the record is say 4 inch group at 1,000, thats just under 1/2 moa.
There are folks on here and offline that I talk to that speak of 1/2 moa groups at 1,000,,,,1400,,,1600 yards etc...I think that most like to talk about these great groups they shoot, but many of them forget to tell you they winged another 2 or 3 bullets just to get on target. So when I hear this or see this, in most cases Im assuming they are not counting the walk in's. If they counted the walk in's...holy cow, these small groups go way way out there.....
my .02 cents
zman
Re: 1410 Yards 7WSM
Some of you guys are pretty respectful and some are not and i appriciate the ones who are. I am not the one who shot that group i wittnessed it and am telling the truth so maybe i shouldnt post in this section. I also appriciate all of the advice and knowledge i have gained on here.
Some of you guys are pretty respectful and some are not and i appriciate the ones who are. I am not the one who shot that group i wittnessed it and am telling the truth so maybe i shouldnt post in this section. I also appriciate all of the advice and knowledge i have gained on here.
Re: 1410 Yards 7WSM
Citabria....what exactly did you see? Im not questioning your integrity, but perhaps we are missing something....
He shot 1410....I have shot 1450 enough times to know that a first shot cold bore hits with wind is difficult and I shoot at 18 inch by 24 inch plates.... So, how many shots total (including ALL walk ins...ALL misses) and how many shots total on target as well.
Realistically, Unless the wind is totally dead, things are a happening man. And I can't remember when I have ever shot in a totally dead wind situation...We shoot at dawn and dusk, but even so, currents are starting. There is a very small window at dawn and dusk, but then you are dealing with low light and this is a bear as well.
And Thunderbolt hit the nail right on the head man...a 1 mph wind change at 1,600 yards is .75 moa adjustment. So every time the wind changes by 1 mph if you don't adjust,, your bullet will impact more than 10 inches different...This is why the world records are so tough. WIND is the key man.
So...It would be good to know all details...every shot,,every adjustment,,,every miss....every (crap where did that one hit). This all counts. As I said, most on here forget to talk about the "OH CRAPS".
zman
Citabria....what exactly did you see? Im not questioning your integrity, but perhaps we are missing something....
He shot 1410....I have shot 1450 enough times to know that a first shot cold bore hits with wind is difficult and I shoot at 18 inch by 24 inch plates.... So, how many shots total (including ALL walk ins...ALL misses) and how many shots total on target as well.
Realistically, Unless the wind is totally dead, things are a happening man. And I can't remember when I have ever shot in a totally dead wind situation...We shoot at dawn and dusk, but even so, currents are starting. There is a very small window at dawn and dusk, but then you are dealing with low light and this is a bear as well.
And Thunderbolt hit the nail right on the head man...a 1 mph wind change at 1,600 yards is .75 moa adjustment. So every time the wind changes by 1 mph if you don't adjust,, your bullet will impact more than 10 inches different...This is why the world records are so tough. WIND is the key man.
So...It would be good to know all details...every shot,,every adjustment,,,every miss....every (crap where did that one hit). This all counts. As I said, most on here forget to talk about the "OH CRAPS".
zman
Re: 1410 Yards 7WSM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: citabria</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I guess you moron's probably only have and IQ of about 2. Kind of like a dating site where you would think there would be one woman for every man instead there are two women and 10,000 men you guys are one of those men. No experience and cant get it up. Maybe someone can comment with a little higher IQ. I thought there were more professonals on here. </div></div>
That's not very nice!
What kind of rig was your friend using to do this? Barrel length?, optic?, machine rest? Prone supported off a bi-pod?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: citabria</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I guess you moron's probably only have and IQ of about 2. Kind of like a dating site where you would think there would be one woman for every man instead there are two women and 10,000 men you guys are one of those men. No experience and cant get it up. Maybe someone can comment with a little higher IQ. I thought there were more professonals on here. </div></div>
That's not very nice!
What kind of rig was your friend using to do this? Barrel length?, optic?, machine rest? Prone supported off a bi-pod?
Re: 1410 Yards 7WSM
I'm quite old now and have been shooting all my life for work and for pleasure. Over the decades I have seen some shooting that can be classed as pure luck as the chances of it EVER being repeated by the same shooter is next to nothing "which is different than skill which can be repeated". Maybe this story is one of them? Just a thought.
I'm quite old now and have been shooting all my life for work and for pleasure. Over the decades I have seen some shooting that can be classed as pure luck as the chances of it EVER being repeated by the same shooter is next to nothing "which is different than skill which can be repeated". Maybe this story is one of them? Just a thought.
Re: 1410 Yards 7WSM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GCMxVeGeTa</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe it was a one-shot group and the bullet broke in half. lol</div></div>
LOL
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GCMxVeGeTa</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe it was a one-shot group and the bullet broke in half. lol</div></div>
LOL
Re: 1410 Yards 7WSM
i have no reason to believe that it didn't happen. i have shot a 1-7/8", 3 round group at 1k yards during a long range tac match years ago. this was with a factory 700p and federal match 190 grain 300 win mag ammo.
was this consistent with my shooting ability? no. could i duplicate it? highly doubtful. i do think that luck happens now and then during informal shooting. unless there are reputable witnesses to the event, posting about it on the internet usually ends up being taken as a fish story.
then again, during a match a couple weeks ago, i put 3 of 3 rounds into about a 3/4" group into the x ring at 500 yards with my .284. i bet i don't duplicate that anytime soon but again, it can happen.
i have no reason to believe that it didn't happen. i have shot a 1-7/8", 3 round group at 1k yards during a long range tac match years ago. this was with a factory 700p and federal match 190 grain 300 win mag ammo.
was this consistent with my shooting ability? no. could i duplicate it? highly doubtful. i do think that luck happens now and then during informal shooting. unless there are reputable witnesses to the event, posting about it on the internet usually ends up being taken as a fish story.
then again, during a match a couple weeks ago, i put 3 of 3 rounds into about a 3/4" group into the x ring at 500 yards with my .284. i bet i don't duplicate that anytime soon but again, it can happen.
Re: 1410 Yards 7WSM
I shot a 5 shot .25 MOA group with a sling shot at seven paces don't believe me drink more beer
I shot a 5 shot .25 MOA group with a sling shot at seven paces don't believe me drink more beer
Re: 1410 Yards 7WSM
As an earlier poster stated, I will not question your integrity, but the group size is a fantastic claim. Pictures and details help round things out.
A friend of mine likes to talk about how he picked up a single action revolver that belonged to another man. He fiddled with it a bit, went "snake eye" and hip shot a 3" center at about 35yds. It was a fluke, but I believe it happened. My friend and I both believe it will never happen again.
As an earlier poster stated, I will not question your integrity, but the group size is a fantastic claim. Pictures and details help round things out.
A friend of mine likes to talk about how he picked up a single action revolver that belonged to another man. He fiddled with it a bit, went "snake eye" and hip shot a 3" center at about 35yds. It was a fluke, but I believe it happened. My friend and I both believe it will never happen again.
Re: 1410 Yards 7WSM
im with you guys on that one, Ive personally shot some crazy assed groups before and pulled some shots that was sheer luck. I watched a buddy of mine up and offhand shoot a 95# doe at a lasered 534yds. he couldnt do it again if he had too. but he did it once, in witness of 3 other guys. Ive shot some awesome 500yd groups, but cant do it consistently. Gun? I think not, its the screwball behind the trigger. But info of these groups and shots need to be detailed.
im with you guys on that one, Ive personally shot some crazy assed groups before and pulled some shots that was sheer luck. I watched a buddy of mine up and offhand shoot a 95# doe at a lasered 534yds. he couldnt do it again if he had too. but he did it once, in witness of 3 other guys. Ive shot some awesome 500yd groups, but cant do it consistently. Gun? I think not, its the screwball behind the trigger. But info of these groups and shots need to be detailed.
Re: 1410 Yards 7WSM
you have to figure every now and then, the rifle/ammo zigs this way and the trigger puller zags that way causing the bullets to impact somewhere in between. with the amount of rounds sent down range by precision rifle shooters, chances are that many groups have been shot better than world records during informal shoots. i'd also say the chances are that those same people couldn't duplicate it during a sanctioned match for group size.
you have to figure every now and then, the rifle/ammo zigs this way and the trigger puller zags that way causing the bullets to impact somewhere in between. with the amount of rounds sent down range by precision rifle shooters, chances are that many groups have been shot better than world records during informal shoots. i'd also say the chances are that those same people couldn't duplicate it during a sanctioned match for group size.
Re: 1410 Yards 7WSM
When I was a kid, I put thousands of rounds through a pellet gun in my back yard. The local birds learned to stay at least 3 yards away.
A few years back we went camping with some friends from work and their families. Somehow, the topic of my shooting skill came up and my buddies demanded to see a demonstration since we had a pellet gun in the pickup.
The one friend who is ultra-competitive said he got to pick the target. We were standing by a lake and a dragonfly was darting back and forth just off the surface of the water at least 15 yds. from shore. That was his choice of target. I thought to myself, "Oh, sure... yikes". Well I pumped up the pellet gun, took aim and shot that dragonfly out of the air!
My buddy yelled that it was a total luck shot and I had to shoot it again (it was flopping in the water). So I shot it out of the water with the next shot. I tried real hard to look like I meant to do that.
Trust me, nobody was more surprised than I was.
But this thread got me to thinking... those thousands of rounds of practice, maybe they improved my luck a little. Who knows. But I'm a legend now.
John
When I was a kid, I put thousands of rounds through a pellet gun in my back yard. The local birds learned to stay at least 3 yards away.
A few years back we went camping with some friends from work and their families. Somehow, the topic of my shooting skill came up and my buddies demanded to see a demonstration since we had a pellet gun in the pickup.
The one friend who is ultra-competitive said he got to pick the target. We were standing by a lake and a dragonfly was darting back and forth just off the surface of the water at least 15 yds. from shore. That was his choice of target. I thought to myself, "Oh, sure... yikes". Well I pumped up the pellet gun, took aim and shot that dragonfly out of the air!
My buddy yelled that it was a total luck shot and I had to shoot it again (it was flopping in the water). So I shot it out of the water with the next shot. I tried real hard to look like I meant to do that.
But this thread got me to thinking... those thousands of rounds of practice, maybe they improved my luck a little. Who knows. But I'm a legend now.
John
Re: 1410 Yards 7WSM
Ok 2 weeks ago at a long range F Class match 1000,1100 and 1200 yards i placed a 45% ipsc steel target in front of the target mantlet and between the numbers it was 1182yards from the shooters to the target after every shooter finished there 15 or 20 shot match if you were clean after 15 shots you continued to 20 as the range had never been shot cleen at 1200 with 20 shots until that day then it happened twice a shooter in front of me and them i did it. Now every shooter missed the plate most going high as they did not aim lower for the closer target one guy got realy close i finished my shoot and am the first shooter to shoot the day cleen with 50 shots all in the bull of an 800 target and 40 centres making it 290/300 in F Class or 250/250 with 40 for match rifle. It was an easy day. So i shot and hit the plate then i fired another shot hit it again so i got up and asked the guys if they wanted to shoot my last few rouns off i was using Norma brass and the other rounds were rem the next guy laid behind the rifle and let a shot go before he was even close to the target trying to steer the rifle by the trigger i have a 4oz trigger as it is a target rifle so he relaxed and aimed at the target and hit it so 3 shots with a pause between them when we got to the plate the 3 hits measured 2.670" to the centre of the impacts as good as i could measure on the steel. It was awsome and i dont thing i would ever be able to repete it but there were whitnesses the whole shoot i have a pic of the plate but i dont have an image hosting site this is just what can happen and is fully disclosed as i think it is hard to prove anything because what is there to stop someone shooting a 4" group at 200 yards and posting it as being shot at 1000? we have to believe people have some integrity or they are just cheating themselves not us.
By the way my rifle speca are as follows
Shot off a Benchrest prone with rear bag
lawton duel port 7500 action
Jewell trigger 4oz
Lawton 30" barrel in 7mm Rem SAUM 1100 rounds through it and a barrel tuner
Shehane modified Lee Six thumbhole tracker
mercury recoil reducers in stock
March 10-60X52 benchrest scope
custom 20moa rail
Seekins recoil lug with rail recoil lug
Larue QD rings
I am using a heavy load of retumbo 175gr MatchKings with CCI250 primers to get the BC to matchh the Sierra infintiy 6 factory BC i have to input 3150fps it is realy going closer to 3100fps i use a long drop tube to get in into the case.
This was something we did for fun that was all so if you want to post about a group put the facts in all of them not just the group and calibre it might have happened i was not there but it could be possible from the fun 3 shots fired at the plate.
if someone wants me to email them the plate pic so it can be posted let me know.
Ok 2 weeks ago at a long range F Class match 1000,1100 and 1200 yards i placed a 45% ipsc steel target in front of the target mantlet and between the numbers it was 1182yards from the shooters to the target after every shooter finished there 15 or 20 shot match if you were clean after 15 shots you continued to 20 as the range had never been shot cleen at 1200 with 20 shots until that day then it happened twice a shooter in front of me and them i did it. Now every shooter missed the plate most going high as they did not aim lower for the closer target one guy got realy close i finished my shoot and am the first shooter to shoot the day cleen with 50 shots all in the bull of an 800 target and 40 centres making it 290/300 in F Class or 250/250 with 40 for match rifle. It was an easy day. So i shot and hit the plate then i fired another shot hit it again so i got up and asked the guys if they wanted to shoot my last few rouns off i was using Norma brass and the other rounds were rem the next guy laid behind the rifle and let a shot go before he was even close to the target trying to steer the rifle by the trigger i have a 4oz trigger as it is a target rifle so he relaxed and aimed at the target and hit it so 3 shots with a pause between them when we got to the plate the 3 hits measured 2.670" to the centre of the impacts as good as i could measure on the steel. It was awsome and i dont thing i would ever be able to repete it but there were whitnesses the whole shoot i have a pic of the plate but i dont have an image hosting site this is just what can happen and is fully disclosed as i think it is hard to prove anything because what is there to stop someone shooting a 4" group at 200 yards and posting it as being shot at 1000? we have to believe people have some integrity or they are just cheating themselves not us.
By the way my rifle speca are as follows
Shot off a Benchrest prone with rear bag
lawton duel port 7500 action
Jewell trigger 4oz
Lawton 30" barrel in 7mm Rem SAUM 1100 rounds through it and a barrel tuner
Shehane modified Lee Six thumbhole tracker
mercury recoil reducers in stock
March 10-60X52 benchrest scope
custom 20moa rail
Seekins recoil lug with rail recoil lug
Larue QD rings
I am using a heavy load of retumbo 175gr MatchKings with CCI250 primers to get the BC to matchh the Sierra infintiy 6 factory BC i have to input 3150fps it is realy going closer to 3100fps i use a long drop tube to get in into the case.
This was something we did for fun that was all so if you want to post about a group put the facts in all of them not just the group and calibre it might have happened i was not there but it could be possible from the fun 3 shots fired at the plate.
if someone wants me to email them the plate pic so it can be posted let me know.
Re: 1410 Yards 7WSM
something that has not been taken into account is that the benchrest guys get SIGHTERS or what yall are calling misses or "winged" shots. the fact is MOST people here wouldnt have a snowballs chance in hell of making a first round hit on a man sized target at 1450yds EVEN IN THE VERY BEST CONDITIONS. so everyone uses sighters wether they like it or not. i shoot long range pretty regularly now and it may take a few shots to find the right wind dope in these brutal texas panhandle conditions but that does not change the fact that 3,5 or 10 CONSECUTIVE shots is still a group. the OP didnt make a claim of a first round hit or anything else that i would find cause to ridicule him as you have. one thing that REALLY PISSES ME OFF about this site is that it only takes one person to sway a conversation either way. what i mean by this is that if Terry Cross would have been the first to respond and said "good job man" then most every post from that point on would have been positive because Terry is well respected. conversely, if Terry would have called bullshit, every post from that point on would have been negative. BE YOUR OWN MAN. i keep a lot of things to myself because the vultures here are constantly circling waiting for blood.
chuck
something that has not been taken into account is that the benchrest guys get SIGHTERS or what yall are calling misses or "winged" shots. the fact is MOST people here wouldnt have a snowballs chance in hell of making a first round hit on a man sized target at 1450yds EVEN IN THE VERY BEST CONDITIONS. so everyone uses sighters wether they like it or not. i shoot long range pretty regularly now and it may take a few shots to find the right wind dope in these brutal texas panhandle conditions but that does not change the fact that 3,5 or 10 CONSECUTIVE shots is still a group. the OP didnt make a claim of a first round hit or anything else that i would find cause to ridicule him as you have. one thing that REALLY PISSES ME OFF about this site is that it only takes one person to sway a conversation either way. what i mean by this is that if Terry Cross would have been the first to respond and said "good job man" then most every post from that point on would have been positive because Terry is well respected. conversely, if Terry would have called bullshit, every post from that point on would have been negative. BE YOUR OWN MAN. i keep a lot of things to myself because the vultures here are constantly circling waiting for blood.
chuck
Re: 1410 Yards 7WSM
Personally I've shot and whitnessed more than one group that people would call BS on. Whether there were x amount of shots to get on target etc. Isn't really relevant. It happened or it didn't. I know that one of our 338's shot a 3" shot group at 1500 with Corbon ammo. Shot 4 and 5 opened it up to 1 MOA. I would say that' stellar for any ammo let alone factory yet it happened.
The only thing that we do know for fact is that all things must come together perfectly for it to happen. Luck doesn't hurt and skill only improves your odds. Other than that its up to you and mother nature.
Personally I've shot and whitnessed more than one group that people would call BS on. Whether there were x amount of shots to get on target etc. Isn't really relevant. It happened or it didn't. I know that one of our 338's shot a 3" shot group at 1500 with Corbon ammo. Shot 4 and 5 opened it up to 1 MOA. I would say that' stellar for any ammo let alone factory yet it happened.
The only thing that we do know for fact is that all things must come together perfectly for it to happen. Luck doesn't hurt and skill only improves your odds. Other than that its up to you and mother nature.
Re: 1410 Yards 7WSM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: selfbowhunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">something that has not been taken into account is that the benchrest guys get SIGHTERS or what yall are calling misses or "winged" shots. the fact is MOST people here wouldnt have a snowballs chance in hell of making a first round hit on a man sized target at 1450yds EVEN IN THE VERY BEST CONDITIONS. so everyone uses sighters wether they like it or not.</div></div>
I watched Trgrman place a cold bore hit center mass of a rock at 2950 yds. two weeks ago in a fairly strong switching wind. Then he proceeded to put two more into a three shot group of under 20". Augustis was calling wind. There were about 10-12 other witnesses there.
These two guys are working on the math required to increase the likelihood of first round hits at ELR and are putting into practice. Pretty impressive stuff.
John
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: selfbowhunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">something that has not been taken into account is that the benchrest guys get SIGHTERS or what yall are calling misses or "winged" shots. the fact is MOST people here wouldnt have a snowballs chance in hell of making a first round hit on a man sized target at 1450yds EVEN IN THE VERY BEST CONDITIONS. so everyone uses sighters wether they like it or not.</div></div>
I watched Trgrman place a cold bore hit center mass of a rock at 2950 yds. two weeks ago in a fairly strong switching wind. Then he proceeded to put two more into a three shot group of under 20". Augustis was calling wind. There were about 10-12 other witnesses there.
These two guys are working on the math required to increase the likelihood of first round hits at ELR and are putting into practice. Pretty impressive stuff.
John
Re: 1410 Yards 7WSM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: selfbowhunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">something that has not been taken into account is that the benchrest guys get SIGHTERS or what yall are calling misses or "winged" shots. the fact is MOST people here wouldnt have a snowballs chance in hell of making a first round hit on a man sized target at 1450yds EVEN IN THE VERY BEST CONDITIONS. so everyone uses sighters wether they like it or not.</div></div>
I watched Trgrman place a cold bore hit center mass of a rock at 2950 yds. two weeks ago in a fairly strong switching wind. Then he proceeded to put two more into a three shot group of under 20". Augustis was calling wind. There were about 10-12 other witnesses there.
These two guys are working on the math required to increase the likelihood of first round hits at ELR and are putting into practice. Pretty impressive stuff.
John </div></div>
he did say "most people here". sure some could but i would have to agree with him about the most people part.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: selfbowhunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">something that has not been taken into account is that the benchrest guys get SIGHTERS or what yall are calling misses or "winged" shots. the fact is MOST people here wouldnt have a snowballs chance in hell of making a first round hit on a man sized target at 1450yds EVEN IN THE VERY BEST CONDITIONS. so everyone uses sighters wether they like it or not.</div></div>
I watched Trgrman place a cold bore hit center mass of a rock at 2950 yds. two weeks ago in a fairly strong switching wind. Then he proceeded to put two more into a three shot group of under 20". Augustis was calling wind. There were about 10-12 other witnesses there.
These two guys are working on the math required to increase the likelihood of first round hits at ELR and are putting into practice. Pretty impressive stuff.
John </div></div>
he did say "most people here". sure some could but i would have to agree with him about the most people part.
Re: 1410 Yards 7WSM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: selfbowhunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">something that has not been taken into account is that the benchrest guys get SIGHTERS or what yall are calling misses or "winged" shots. the fact is MOST people here wouldnt have a snowballs chance in hell of making a first round hit on a man sized target at 1450yds EVEN IN THE VERY BEST CONDITIONS. so everyone uses sighters wether they like it or not.</div></div>
I watched Trgrman place a cold bore hit center mass of a rock at 2950 yds. two weeks ago in a fairly strong switching wind. Then he proceeded to put two more into a three shot group of under 20". Augustis was calling wind. There were about 10-12 other witnesses there.
These two guys are working on the math required to increase the likelihood of first round hits at ELR and are putting into practice. Pretty impressive stuff.
John </div></div>
he did say "most people here". sure some could but i would have to agree with him about the most people part. </div></div>
I can see where you might think I was disputing his point. That was not my intention.
John
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: selfbowhunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">something that has not been taken into account is that the benchrest guys get SIGHTERS or what yall are calling misses or "winged" shots. the fact is MOST people here wouldnt have a snowballs chance in hell of making a first round hit on a man sized target at 1450yds EVEN IN THE VERY BEST CONDITIONS. so everyone uses sighters wether they like it or not.</div></div>
I watched Trgrman place a cold bore hit center mass of a rock at 2950 yds. two weeks ago in a fairly strong switching wind. Then he proceeded to put two more into a three shot group of under 20". Augustis was calling wind. There were about 10-12 other witnesses there.
These two guys are working on the math required to increase the likelihood of first round hits at ELR and are putting into practice. Pretty impressive stuff.
John </div></div>
he did say "most people here". sure some could but i would have to agree with him about the most people part. </div></div>
I can see where you might think I was disputing his point. That was not my intention.
John
Re: 1410 Yards 7WSM
Well if its a GAP it could do it
This is no 4" group, but I do have a picture. First target-7wsm 1415 yard's 10 shoot group. Lower left was the first shoot. I shoot the first 5 shoots, then my brother shoot the next 5. Nothing real special, just thought I would share.
Then my 820 yard 8 shoot group. The black dot is the size of the bottom of a spray paint can. Whatever that is.
Well if its a GAP it could do it
This is no 4" group, but I do have a picture. First target-7wsm 1415 yard's 10 shoot group. Lower left was the first shoot. I shoot the first 5 shoots, then my brother shoot the next 5. Nothing real special, just thought I would share.
Then my 820 yard 8 shoot group. The black dot is the size of the bottom of a spray paint can. Whatever that is.
Re: 1410 Yards 7WSM
But this thread got me to thinking... those thousands of rounds of practice, maybe they improved my luck a little. Who knows. But I'm a legend now.
jrob300
I think you have something on the practice improving your luck. A gunwriter did an article on longrange handgunning. He said(if memory serves) that he shot at 5 gallon buckets at 500yds. The point he made was that initially you get mostly misses. After a while with bullets downrange, your "luck" improves.
Elmer Keith told of some looong shots with single action revolvers and people laughed at him. According to him, he got his longrange practice in as a young man using a sixgun to plop bullets in front of sheep to keep the herd under control. To me, that puts things into perspective.
But this thread got me to thinking... those thousands of rounds of practice, maybe they improved my luck a little. Who knows. But I'm a legend now.
jrob300
I think you have something on the practice improving your luck. A gunwriter did an article on longrange handgunning. He said(if memory serves) that he shot at 5 gallon buckets at 500yds. The point he made was that initially you get mostly misses. After a while with bullets downrange, your "luck" improves.
Elmer Keith told of some looong shots with single action revolvers and people laughed at him. According to him, he got his longrange practice in as a young man using a sixgun to plop bullets in front of sheep to keep the herd under control. To me, that puts things into perspective.
Re: 1410 Yards 7WSM
I know its long but E. Kieth was one of my heroes when i first started reading hunting articles......i don't doubt any part of this story for a second but damn.....a mule deer at 600 yards with open sights on a pistol....we would crucify a lesser man for making that claim........if you don't want to read how it happened, skip this post (sorry for going off subject)
600 yd muley
Paul Kriley and I hunted up Clear Creek on the right side where it is partly open bunch grass meadows and partly patches of timber. We hunted all day, and although we saw several does at 80-90 yards, one at 60, that I could have killed. We passed them up, as I wanted a buck. Toward evening we topped out on a ridge. There was a swale between us and another small ridge on the side of the mountain slope about 300-400 yards away. Beyond that, out on the open sidehill, no doubt on account of the cougar, were about 20 mule deer, feeding. Two big bucks were in the band, and some lesser ones, the rest were does and long fawns. As it was getting late and the last day of the season, I wanted one of those bucks for meat. Being a half-mile away, I told Paul, “Take the .300 Magnum and duck back through this swale to that next ridge and that should put you within about 500 yards of them. I’ll stay here (the deer had seen us), let them watch me for a decoy.” Paul said, “You take the rifle.”
“I said, how is it sighted?”
He said, “one inch high at a hundred yards.” I told him to go ahead because I wouldn’t know where to hold it. I always sighted a .300 Magnum 3 inches high at a hundred and I wouldn’t know where to hold it at 500.
I said, “You go ahead and kill the biggest buck in the bunch for me.” Paul took off, went across the swale and climbed the ridge, laid down and crawled up to the top. He shot. The lower of the two bucks, which he later said was the biggest one, dropped and rolled down the mountain. I then took off across the swale to join him. Just before I climbed up the ridge to where he was lying, he started shooting again.
When I came up on top, the band of deer was pretty well long gone. They’d gone out to the next ridge top, turned up it slightly and went over. But the old buck was up following their trail, one front leg a-swinging. Paul had hit it. I asked Paul, “Is there any harm in me getting into this show?” He said, “No, go ahead.”
I had to lay down prone, because if I crawled over the hill to assume my old backside positioning, then the blast of his gun would be right in my ear. Shooting prone with a .44 Magnum is something I don’t like at all. The concussion is terrific. It will just about bust your ear drums every time. At any rate Paul shot and missed. I held all of the front sight up, or practically all of it, and perched the running deer on top of the front sight and squeezed one off. Paul said, “I saw it through my scope. It hit in the mud and snow right below him.” There was possibly six inches of wet snow, with muddy ground underneath. I told him “I won’t be low the next shot.” Paul shot again and missed with his .300 Magnum. The next time I held all of the front sight up and a bit of the ramp, just perched the deer on top. After the shot the gun came down out of recoil and the bullet had evidently landed. The buck made a high buck-jump, swapped ends, and came back toward us, shaking his head. I told Paul I must have hit a horn. I asked him to let the buck come back until he was right on us if he would, let him come as close as he would and I’d jump up and kill him. When he came back to where Paul had first rolled him, out about 500 yards, Paul said, “I could hit him now, I think.”
“Well,” I said, “I don’t like to see a deer run on three legs. Go ahead.” He shot again and missed. The buck swapped ends and turned around and went back right over the same trail. Paul said, “I’m out of ammunition. Empty.” I told him to reload, duck back out of sight, go on around the hill and head the old buck off, and I’d chase him on around. Paul took off on a run to go around this bunch-grass hill and get up above the buck and on top. He was young, husky, and could run like a deer himself. I got on the old buck again with all of the front sight and a trifle of the ramp up. Just as I was going to squeeze it off when he got to the ridge, he turned up it just as the band of deer had done. So I moved the sight picture in front of him and shot. After an interval he went down and out of sight. I didn’t think anything of it, thought he had just tipped over the ridge. It took me about half an hour to get across. When I got over there to the ridge, I saw where he’d rolled down the hill about fifty yards, bleeding badly, and then he’d gotten up and walked from the tracks to the ridge in front of us. There were a few pine trees down below, so I cut across to intercept his tracks. I could see he was bleeding out both sides.
Just before I got to the top of the ridge, I heard a shot up above me and then another shot, and I yelled and asked if it was Paul. He answered. I asked, “Did you get him?” He said, “Yes, he’s down there by that big pine tree below you. Climb a little higher and you can see him.” Paul came down and we went down to the buck. Paul said the buck was walking along all humped up very slowly. He held back of the shoulders as he was quartering away. The first shot went between his forelegs and threw up snow. Then he said the buck turned a little more away from him and he held higher and dropped him. Finally we parted the hair in the right flank and found where the 180-grain needle-pointed Remington spitzer had gone in. Later I determined it blew up and lodged in the left shoulder. At any rate I looked his horns over, trying to see where I’d hit a horn. No sign of it. Finally I found a bullet hole back of the right jaw and it came out of the top of his nose. That was the shot I’d hit him with out at 600 yards. Then Paul said, “Who shot him through the lungs broadside? I didn’t, never had that kind of shot at all.” There was an entrance hole fairly high on the right side of the rib cage just under the spine and an exit just about three or four inches lower on the other side. The deer had been approximately the same elevation as I was when I fired that last shot at him. We dressed him, drug him down the trail on Clear Creek, hung him up, and went on down to the ranch. The next day a man named Posy and I came back with a pack horse, loaded him and took him in. I took a few pictures of him hanging in the woodshed along with the Smith & Wesson .44 Mag.
I took him home and hung him up in the garage. About ten days later my son Ted came home from college and I told him, “Ted, go out and skin that big buck and get us some chops. They should be well-ripened and about right for dinner tonight.” After awhile Ted came in and he laid the part jacket of a Remington bullet on the table beside me and he said, “Dad, I found this right beside the exit hole on the left side of that buck’s ribs.” Then I knew that I had hit him at that long range two out of four times. I believe I missed the first shot, we didn’t see it at all, and it was on the second that Paul said he saw snow and mud fly up at his heels. I wrote it up and I’ve been called a liar ever since, but Paul Kriley is still alive and able to vouch for the facts.
Elmer Keith
I know its long but E. Kieth was one of my heroes when i first started reading hunting articles......i don't doubt any part of this story for a second but damn.....a mule deer at 600 yards with open sights on a pistol....we would crucify a lesser man for making that claim........if you don't want to read how it happened, skip this post (sorry for going off subject)
600 yd muley
Paul Kriley and I hunted up Clear Creek on the right side where it is partly open bunch grass meadows and partly patches of timber. We hunted all day, and although we saw several does at 80-90 yards, one at 60, that I could have killed. We passed them up, as I wanted a buck. Toward evening we topped out on a ridge. There was a swale between us and another small ridge on the side of the mountain slope about 300-400 yards away. Beyond that, out on the open sidehill, no doubt on account of the cougar, were about 20 mule deer, feeding. Two big bucks were in the band, and some lesser ones, the rest were does and long fawns. As it was getting late and the last day of the season, I wanted one of those bucks for meat. Being a half-mile away, I told Paul, “Take the .300 Magnum and duck back through this swale to that next ridge and that should put you within about 500 yards of them. I’ll stay here (the deer had seen us), let them watch me for a decoy.” Paul said, “You take the rifle.”
“I said, how is it sighted?”
He said, “one inch high at a hundred yards.” I told him to go ahead because I wouldn’t know where to hold it. I always sighted a .300 Magnum 3 inches high at a hundred and I wouldn’t know where to hold it at 500.
I said, “You go ahead and kill the biggest buck in the bunch for me.” Paul took off, went across the swale and climbed the ridge, laid down and crawled up to the top. He shot. The lower of the two bucks, which he later said was the biggest one, dropped and rolled down the mountain. I then took off across the swale to join him. Just before I climbed up the ridge to where he was lying, he started shooting again.
When I came up on top, the band of deer was pretty well long gone. They’d gone out to the next ridge top, turned up it slightly and went over. But the old buck was up following their trail, one front leg a-swinging. Paul had hit it. I asked Paul, “Is there any harm in me getting into this show?” He said, “No, go ahead.”
I had to lay down prone, because if I crawled over the hill to assume my old backside positioning, then the blast of his gun would be right in my ear. Shooting prone with a .44 Magnum is something I don’t like at all. The concussion is terrific. It will just about bust your ear drums every time. At any rate Paul shot and missed. I held all of the front sight up, or practically all of it, and perched the running deer on top of the front sight and squeezed one off. Paul said, “I saw it through my scope. It hit in the mud and snow right below him.” There was possibly six inches of wet snow, with muddy ground underneath. I told him “I won’t be low the next shot.” Paul shot again and missed with his .300 Magnum. The next time I held all of the front sight up and a bit of the ramp, just perched the deer on top. After the shot the gun came down out of recoil and the bullet had evidently landed. The buck made a high buck-jump, swapped ends, and came back toward us, shaking his head. I told Paul I must have hit a horn. I asked him to let the buck come back until he was right on us if he would, let him come as close as he would and I’d jump up and kill him. When he came back to where Paul had first rolled him, out about 500 yards, Paul said, “I could hit him now, I think.”
“Well,” I said, “I don’t like to see a deer run on three legs. Go ahead.” He shot again and missed. The buck swapped ends and turned around and went back right over the same trail. Paul said, “I’m out of ammunition. Empty.” I told him to reload, duck back out of sight, go on around the hill and head the old buck off, and I’d chase him on around. Paul took off on a run to go around this bunch-grass hill and get up above the buck and on top. He was young, husky, and could run like a deer himself. I got on the old buck again with all of the front sight and a trifle of the ramp up. Just as I was going to squeeze it off when he got to the ridge, he turned up it just as the band of deer had done. So I moved the sight picture in front of him and shot. After an interval he went down and out of sight. I didn’t think anything of it, thought he had just tipped over the ridge. It took me about half an hour to get across. When I got over there to the ridge, I saw where he’d rolled down the hill about fifty yards, bleeding badly, and then he’d gotten up and walked from the tracks to the ridge in front of us. There were a few pine trees down below, so I cut across to intercept his tracks. I could see he was bleeding out both sides.
Just before I got to the top of the ridge, I heard a shot up above me and then another shot, and I yelled and asked if it was Paul. He answered. I asked, “Did you get him?” He said, “Yes, he’s down there by that big pine tree below you. Climb a little higher and you can see him.” Paul came down and we went down to the buck. Paul said the buck was walking along all humped up very slowly. He held back of the shoulders as he was quartering away. The first shot went between his forelegs and threw up snow. Then he said the buck turned a little more away from him and he held higher and dropped him. Finally we parted the hair in the right flank and found where the 180-grain needle-pointed Remington spitzer had gone in. Later I determined it blew up and lodged in the left shoulder. At any rate I looked his horns over, trying to see where I’d hit a horn. No sign of it. Finally I found a bullet hole back of the right jaw and it came out of the top of his nose. That was the shot I’d hit him with out at 600 yards. Then Paul said, “Who shot him through the lungs broadside? I didn’t, never had that kind of shot at all.” There was an entrance hole fairly high on the right side of the rib cage just under the spine and an exit just about three or four inches lower on the other side. The deer had been approximately the same elevation as I was when I fired that last shot at him. We dressed him, drug him down the trail on Clear Creek, hung him up, and went on down to the ranch. The next day a man named Posy and I came back with a pack horse, loaded him and took him in. I took a few pictures of him hanging in the woodshed along with the Smith & Wesson .44 Mag.
I took him home and hung him up in the garage. About ten days later my son Ted came home from college and I told him, “Ted, go out and skin that big buck and get us some chops. They should be well-ripened and about right for dinner tonight.” After awhile Ted came in and he laid the part jacket of a Remington bullet on the table beside me and he said, “Dad, I found this right beside the exit hole on the left side of that buck’s ribs.” Then I knew that I had hit him at that long range two out of four times. I believe I missed the first shot, we didn’t see it at all, and it was on the second that Paul said he saw snow and mud fly up at his heels. I wrote it up and I’ve been called a liar ever since, but Paul Kriley is still alive and able to vouch for the facts.
Elmer Keith
Re: 1410 Yards 7WSM
I read the same story by Elmer Keith....except it was about an elk. He was certainly colorful and we who like having firearms in some ways owe him. However, some of his tall tales need to be cut to size. E. Keith was certainly a decent shot with a revolver but his continuous claims of making farther shots with a revolver than most can make with a rifle got pretty old pretty quick.
To the OP, congratulations to your friend on a fine day. He wouldn't have gotten it if he didn't try a few times and succeed one good day.
FWIW, IIRC McMillan only shot his world record .009" once. Don't seem to remember if he ever did it again.
I guess too if there hadn't been pictures of Skip Talbots seven records at one time @ 1k and his record at that range of just under 2.5" with the .50 cal., beaten this past year by Rassmussen (just under 2") wouldn't exist?
For all you naysayers, it happens. Some days skill and luck come together to make an extremely good example of what doing your best results in. Yes, you need to practice, and practice right, regularly to even be there. But some days...it just all comes together.
How about a little congratulations instead of "No way...couldn't have happened."
I read the same story by Elmer Keith....except it was about an elk. He was certainly colorful and we who like having firearms in some ways owe him. However, some of his tall tales need to be cut to size. E. Keith was certainly a decent shot with a revolver but his continuous claims of making farther shots with a revolver than most can make with a rifle got pretty old pretty quick.
To the OP, congratulations to your friend on a fine day. He wouldn't have gotten it if he didn't try a few times and succeed one good day.
FWIW, IIRC McMillan only shot his world record .009" once. Don't seem to remember if he ever did it again.
I guess too if there hadn't been pictures of Skip Talbots seven records at one time @ 1k and his record at that range of just under 2.5" with the .50 cal., beaten this past year by Rassmussen (just under 2") wouldn't exist?
For all you naysayers, it happens. Some days skill and luck come together to make an extremely good example of what doing your best results in. Yes, you need to practice, and practice right, regularly to even be there. But some days...it just all comes together.
How about a little congratulations instead of "No way...couldn't have happened."
Re: 1410 Yards 7WSM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: citabria</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Last night my friend brought his 7WSM GAP over to my range and shot a group at 1410yds while i was working with my .338 GAP. The results AWESOME!!!! slightly under 4" </div></div>
It's funny how you call someone out and then they vanish. I would personally like to see this group.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: citabria</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Last night my friend brought his 7WSM GAP over to my range and shot a group at 1410yds while i was working with my .338 GAP. The results AWESOME!!!! slightly under 4" </div></div>
It's funny how you call someone out and then they vanish. I would personally like to see this group.
Re: 1410 Yards 7WSM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: selfbowhunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">something that has not been taken into account is that the benchrest guys get SIGHTERS or what yall are calling misses or "winged" shots. the fact is MOST people here wouldnt have a snowballs chance in hell of making a first round hit on a man sized target at 1450yds EVEN IN THE VERY BEST CONDITIONS. so everyone uses sighters wether they like it or not.</div></div>
I watched Trgrman place a cold bore hit center mass of a rock at 2950 yds. two weeks ago in a fairly strong switching wind. Then he proceeded to put two more into a three shot group of under 20". Augustis was calling wind. There were about 10-12 other witnesses there.
These two guys are working on the math required to increase the likelihood of first round hits at ELR and are putting into practice. Pretty impressive stuff.
John </div></div>
come on boys thats a little far fetched. I can do the math too.
Jeff~
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: selfbowhunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">something that has not been taken into account is that the benchrest guys get SIGHTERS or what yall are calling misses or "winged" shots. the fact is MOST people here wouldnt have a snowballs chance in hell of making a first round hit on a man sized target at 1450yds EVEN IN THE VERY BEST CONDITIONS. so everyone uses sighters wether they like it or not.</div></div>
I watched Trgrman place a cold bore hit center mass of a rock at 2950 yds. two weeks ago in a fairly strong switching wind. Then he proceeded to put two more into a three shot group of under 20". Augustis was calling wind. There were about 10-12 other witnesses there.
These two guys are working on the math required to increase the likelihood of first round hits at ELR and are putting into practice. Pretty impressive stuff.
John </div></div>
come on boys thats a little far fetched. I can do the math too.
Jeff~
Re: 1410 Yards 7WSM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jeff Haugland</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: selfbowhunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">something that has not been taken into account is that the benchrest guys get SIGHTERS or what yall are calling misses or "winged" shots. the fact is MOST people here wouldnt have a snowballs chance in hell of making a first round hit on a man sized target at 1450yds EVEN IN THE VERY BEST CONDITIONS. so everyone uses sighters wether they like it or not.</div></div>
I watched Trgrman place a cold bore hit center mass of a rock at 2950 yds. two weeks ago in a fairly strong switching wind. Then he proceeded to put two more into a three shot group of under 20". Augustis was calling wind. There were about 10-12 other witnesses there.
These two guys are working on the math required to increase the likelihood of first round hits at ELR and are putting into practice. Pretty impressive stuff.
John </div></div>
come on boys thats a little far fetched. I can do the math too.
Jeff~ </div></div>
and your point is, first post notwithstanding...
John
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jeff Haugland</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: selfbowhunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">something that has not been taken into account is that the benchrest guys get SIGHTERS or what yall are calling misses or "winged" shots. the fact is MOST people here wouldnt have a snowballs chance in hell of making a first round hit on a man sized target at 1450yds EVEN IN THE VERY BEST CONDITIONS. so everyone uses sighters wether they like it or not.</div></div>
I watched Trgrman place a cold bore hit center mass of a rock at 2950 yds. two weeks ago in a fairly strong switching wind. Then he proceeded to put two more into a three shot group of under 20". Augustis was calling wind. There were about 10-12 other witnesses there.
These two guys are working on the math required to increase the likelihood of first round hits at ELR and are putting into practice. Pretty impressive stuff.
John </div></div>
come on boys thats a little far fetched. I can do the math too.
Jeff~ </div></div>
and your point is, first post notwithstanding...
John
Re: 1410 Yards 7WSM
No Point just alot of talk with no substantiation. If you want people to belive in the next to impossible 2900+ yard shots then walk the walk.First post or not. I've been shooting long range for 15+years and hear alot of claims, yet see very little to back those claims up. I'm not looking for a pissing match, just a few facts.
Jeff~
No Point just alot of talk with no substantiation. If you want people to belive in the next to impossible 2900+ yard shots then walk the walk.First post or not. I've been shooting long range for 15+years and hear alot of claims, yet see very little to back those claims up. I'm not looking for a pissing match, just a few facts.
Jeff~
Re: 1410 Yards 7WSM
Hmmm,
Sounds to me like you DO want a pissing match.
I gave you facts. You just don't want to believe. I said *I* saw it, ten other people including Treebasher saw it. Augustis, who is a very credible member here on the Hide and holds the LR Shoot at his ranch where Trigger made the shot was calling wind for him. You can PM him if you'd like, but I doubt that he'd answer 'cuz I don't get the impression it's *that* big of a deal to him. I have a picture taken right after the third shot, but what is that going to tell you?
I simply posted it to show what *is* being done in the world of ELR and beyond. Sounds like you need to up your LR game a bit if you've been shooting for 15 yrs. and you can't wrap your head around this.
Just for grins go to YouTube and type in "408 CheyTac" and watch some of those shots. Oh, but they probably faked the videos right?
John
Hmmm,
Sounds to me like you DO want a pissing match.
I gave you facts. You just don't want to believe. I said *I* saw it, ten other people including Treebasher saw it. Augustis, who is a very credible member here on the Hide and holds the LR Shoot at his ranch where Trigger made the shot was calling wind for him. You can PM him if you'd like, but I doubt that he'd answer 'cuz I don't get the impression it's *that* big of a deal to him. I have a picture taken right after the third shot, but what is that going to tell you?
I simply posted it to show what *is* being done in the world of ELR and beyond. Sounds like you need to up your LR game a bit if you've been shooting for 15 yrs. and you can't wrap your head around this.
Just for grins go to YouTube and type in "408 CheyTac" and watch some of those shots. Oh, but they probably faked the videos right?
John
Re: 1410 Yards 7WSM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jeff Haugland</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No Point just alot of talk with no substantiation. If you want people to belive in the next to impossible 2900+ yard shots then walk the walk.First post or not. I've been shooting long range for 15+years and hear alot of claims, yet see very little to back those claims up. I'm not looking for a pissing match, just a few facts.
Jeff~ </div></div>
what would it take for you to believe it, sworn statements from all 10-12 witnesses? maybe have all them take a polygraph?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jeff Haugland</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No Point just alot of talk with no substantiation. If you want people to belive in the next to impossible 2900+ yard shots then walk the walk.First post or not. I've been shooting long range for 15+years and hear alot of claims, yet see very little to back those claims up. I'm not looking for a pissing match, just a few facts.
Jeff~ </div></div>
what would it take for you to believe it, sworn statements from all 10-12 witnesses? maybe have all them take a polygraph?
Re: 1410 Yards 7WSM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jeff Haugland</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No Point just alot of talk with no substantiation. If you want people to belive in the next to impossible 2900+ yard shots then walk the walk.First post or not. I've been shooting long range for 15+years and hear alot of claims, yet see very little to back those claims up. I'm not looking for a pissing match, just a few facts.
Jeff~ </div></div>
If you don't mind my asking Jeff,exactly what facts are you looking for and why would Jrob have them? It's not his rifle.He didn't say he made the shot.Just that he saw it as I did but my view had crosshairs in it.
I most certainly do "walk the walk" as you say and so does my spotter as we couldn't make the shots alone.In my limited experience of 21 years of shooting 1000 yards plus in a part of the world where the wind blows way more than not,hitting a target cold bore is pretty much a team effort at anything over 1000 yards. That's really the only shot that counts as far as we are concerned and that is what we try to accomplish.
I could give you a long list of what I did when I built the rifle and all of my data and it would do you zero good as you allready have the mindset that it can't be done and unless you have one you couldn't prove it one way or the other.
I built the rifle on a Lawton 8000 action,chambered in a .375 S.O.E.,30" Lawton barrel in LRB bore (which shoots 350 SMK's exceptionaly well)Ask Debosdave from here,he and several others watched my spotter and I center punch the target cold bore at 1900 yards with them last weekend. For the 2950 shot was useing T-50's. We can't do it every time but far more often than not so I guess the more we send downrange the luckier we are getting.
As far as the 4" group goes the guy did some nice shooting. Could he do it again who knows but even with the luck mixed in and say he shot a 12" group he still had his $hit together that day. That would still be under 1 moa which is damn tuff to hold for most under real world field shooting in the dirt whether they will admit it or not(think I'm lying shoot a paper plate at 1000 yards, 1 shot per day 5 days and count bullet holes)It's pretty humbleing when there's nothing but staple holes.
You naysayers think the 4" group at 1400 sounds like BS here's another one for you. Some hide members namely, Smokin99,Broz, and I were skipping 1/2" x 6" glow sticks all over the hillside with our .338's one night at 1000 yards and I shot a gopher cold bore at the same distance all on video.But like someone said,that can be faked and we didn't really land on the moon either. That's what my Grandpa thought too but then again he figured refrigerators were "just a fad".
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jeff Haugland</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No Point just alot of talk with no substantiation. If you want people to belive in the next to impossible 2900+ yard shots then walk the walk.First post or not. I've been shooting long range for 15+years and hear alot of claims, yet see very little to back those claims up. I'm not looking for a pissing match, just a few facts.
Jeff~ </div></div>
If you don't mind my asking Jeff,exactly what facts are you looking for and why would Jrob have them? It's not his rifle.He didn't say he made the shot.Just that he saw it as I did but my view had crosshairs in it.
I most certainly do "walk the walk" as you say and so does my spotter as we couldn't make the shots alone.In my limited experience of 21 years of shooting 1000 yards plus in a part of the world where the wind blows way more than not,hitting a target cold bore is pretty much a team effort at anything over 1000 yards. That's really the only shot that counts as far as we are concerned and that is what we try to accomplish.
I could give you a long list of what I did when I built the rifle and all of my data and it would do you zero good as you allready have the mindset that it can't be done and unless you have one you couldn't prove it one way or the other.
I built the rifle on a Lawton 8000 action,chambered in a .375 S.O.E.,30" Lawton barrel in LRB bore (which shoots 350 SMK's exceptionaly well)Ask Debosdave from here,he and several others watched my spotter and I center punch the target cold bore at 1900 yards with them last weekend. For the 2950 shot was useing T-50's. We can't do it every time but far more often than not so I guess the more we send downrange the luckier we are getting.
As far as the 4" group goes the guy did some nice shooting. Could he do it again who knows but even with the luck mixed in and say he shot a 12" group he still had his $hit together that day. That would still be under 1 moa which is damn tuff to hold for most under real world field shooting in the dirt whether they will admit it or not(think I'm lying shoot a paper plate at 1000 yards, 1 shot per day 5 days and count bullet holes)It's pretty humbleing when there's nothing but staple holes.
You naysayers think the 4" group at 1400 sounds like BS here's another one for you. Some hide members namely, Smokin99,Broz, and I were skipping 1/2" x 6" glow sticks all over the hillside with our .338's one night at 1000 yards and I shot a gopher cold bore at the same distance all on video.But like someone said,that can be faked and we didn't really land on the moon either. That's what my Grandpa thought too but then again he figured refrigerators were "just a fad".
Re: 1410 Yards 7WSM
I have to say a word or 2 here. What TRGR says about us shooting glow sticks past 1000 in the dark is true. I also will vouch for TRGR's experience. I have only been shooting long range (past 1000) for a few years. It was Smokin99 and TRGR that got me started. Since TRGR built me a .5 moa 338 LM. I shoot 2 ~ 3 times a week. The rifle he built will still shoot a 3 shot group into .5 moa on a regular basis. I recently shot several of these groups with the Berger Hybrids to 1400. The rifle took my last elk at 1130 yards, wind, cold bore one shot DRT. and a deer before that at 1137 same deal.
As for this video. <span style="font-weight: bold">It is real !!! </span> I was the one on the spotter that was calling the gopher location. Smokin was on the cameras. We had two cameras there. One through a spotter on the 1000 yard target, one barefoot to capture the pan in and pan out footage. Later my son put this video together for us. No tricks! Just as it was, all filmed that day.
I have also had the pleasure of shooting to 2100 yards on a few occations on TRGR's range. And I have personally shot his 375 there to 2900 yards. TRGR does this crap on a regular basis. I say regular, like most of us eat breakfast, almost daily.
You can believe what you hear when he speaks of long range tac shooting.
Enjoy the video..
ps: please note the heavy steel target swaying in the Montana wind.
Jeff
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTDypg4OAFA
I have to say a word or 2 here. What TRGR says about us shooting glow sticks past 1000 in the dark is true. I also will vouch for TRGR's experience. I have only been shooting long range (past 1000) for a few years. It was Smokin99 and TRGR that got me started. Since TRGR built me a .5 moa 338 LM. I shoot 2 ~ 3 times a week. The rifle he built will still shoot a 3 shot group into .5 moa on a regular basis. I recently shot several of these groups with the Berger Hybrids to 1400. The rifle took my last elk at 1130 yards, wind, cold bore one shot DRT. and a deer before that at 1137 same deal.
As for this video. <span style="font-weight: bold">It is real !!! </span> I was the one on the spotter that was calling the gopher location. Smokin was on the cameras. We had two cameras there. One through a spotter on the 1000 yard target, one barefoot to capture the pan in and pan out footage. Later my son put this video together for us. No tricks! Just as it was, all filmed that day.
I have also had the pleasure of shooting to 2100 yards on a few occations on TRGR's range. And I have personally shot his 375 there to 2900 yards. TRGR does this crap on a regular basis. I say regular, like most of us eat breakfast, almost daily.
You can believe what you hear when he speaks of long range tac shooting.
Enjoy the video..
ps: please note the heavy steel target swaying in the Montana wind.
Jeff
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTDypg4OAFA
Re: 1410 Yards 7WSM
300sniper, they just don't want to believe it. That is ok. Almost every time someone does something that most people cannot do, some people simply deny that that person did it, because since they can't do it, they think nobody can, except someone they agree on. It is called ego, nothing more.
300sniper, they just don't want to believe it. That is ok. Almost every time someone does something that most people cannot do, some people simply deny that that person did it, because since they can't do it, they think nobody can, except someone they agree on. It is called ego, nothing more.
Re: 1410 Yards 7WSM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jeff Haugland</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No Point just alot of talk with no substantiation. If you want people to belive in the next to impossible 2900+ yard shots then walk the walk.First post or not. I've been shooting long range for 15+years and hear alot of claims, yet see very little to back those claims up. I'm not looking for a pissing match, just a few facts.
Jeff~ </div></div>
"Walk The Walk" - You HAVE to be $hitting me right???
Jeff
Usually I do not engage in these kind pissing matches, but for you I will make an exception in this instance. You are dunning my partner & possibly my closest friend, who I have spent a considerable amount of time with in the dirt, either spotting, or as his shooter - & someone YOU do not personally know anything about!
Typically, I choose not to be overly boastful about our personal accomplishments in this area as a rule.
-Deleted Content-
But FYI, the 2950 yard shot happened just the way it was described to you already. Believe what you want, but I was there calling wind conditions from shot to shot, so I would consider myself as another "eye witness" to this event. We do in fact have the ability to place a bullet on a target, on demand at extended distances, as we have successfully demonstrated time & time again in front of God & everyone else! Weekend before last, 1900 yard cold bore shot placed on a target in a 18 MPH full value condition. - Deleted Content- In case you do not know, "cold bore" indicates a first round hit! This is our world, & we have worked very hard to develop the skill, knowledge & ability to place shots like this, on targets, on demand - Maybe not every single time, but we have learned from experience, that the harder we work the luckier we get in this area.
-Deleted Content-
Maybe you should take your own advice & come walk the walk with us... Come shoot with us sometime, after all, that is where the tires hit the pavement in the real world. We are not bashful to shoot in front of others observing, & who knows maybe you will realize a new standard of what CAN actually be accomplished by motivated individuals like us, or possibly determine a future goal for yourself to work towards in the future, who knows?
Aug ><>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jeff Haugland</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No Point just alot of talk with no substantiation. If you want people to belive in the next to impossible 2900+ yard shots then walk the walk.First post or not. I've been shooting long range for 15+years and hear alot of claims, yet see very little to back those claims up. I'm not looking for a pissing match, just a few facts.
Jeff~ </div></div>
"Walk The Walk" - You HAVE to be $hitting me right???
Jeff
Usually I do not engage in these kind pissing matches, but for you I will make an exception in this instance. You are dunning my partner & possibly my closest friend, who I have spent a considerable amount of time with in the dirt, either spotting, or as his shooter - & someone YOU do not personally know anything about!
Typically, I choose not to be overly boastful about our personal accomplishments in this area as a rule.
-Deleted Content-
But FYI, the 2950 yard shot happened just the way it was described to you already. Believe what you want, but I was there calling wind conditions from shot to shot, so I would consider myself as another "eye witness" to this event. We do in fact have the ability to place a bullet on a target, on demand at extended distances, as we have successfully demonstrated time & time again in front of God & everyone else! Weekend before last, 1900 yard cold bore shot placed on a target in a 18 MPH full value condition. - Deleted Content- In case you do not know, "cold bore" indicates a first round hit! This is our world, & we have worked very hard to develop the skill, knowledge & ability to place shots like this, on targets, on demand - Maybe not every single time, but we have learned from experience, that the harder we work the luckier we get in this area.
-Deleted Content-
Maybe you should take your own advice & come walk the walk with us... Come shoot with us sometime, after all, that is where the tires hit the pavement in the real world. We are not bashful to shoot in front of others observing, & who knows maybe you will realize a new standard of what CAN actually be accomplished by motivated individuals like us, or possibly determine a future goal for yourself to work towards in the future, who knows?
Aug ><>
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