I'm putting together my first ar. I'm thinking 16".1/8 twist barrel 5.56. Something for all round use. Any thought /help of why it would be a good or bad choice
16" barrels what are they capable of?
- Thread starter ryanshaw44
- Start date
Nothing wrong at all with a 16" barrel. I prefer mid-length gas system for them to soften/lengthen the recoil pulse along with easing the pressure on the gas port as well. Look for a quality stainless steel mid-profile .750 gas block barrel and it should be a handy toting blaster for you.
if you plan to build it yourself midway has 16" Noveske barrels with pinned gas block and gas tube, if you are looking to buy a complete upper good luck!
16" is great mine pings 6x6 steel at 500 all day long.
16" is great mine pings 6x6 steel at 500 all day long.
16" barrels, with the proper ammo, shooter, sights/optic, etc. are more than capable of making hits at extended ranges...but it just all depends on what you specifically want/need that should dictate whether the 16" tube is enough to get the job done or if you need to go longer or go with at least a different length gas system to get the necessary edge in performance required for your goals with the rifle.
Depending on what kind of ammo you'll be shooting from it, I'd recommend AGAINST the 5.56 NATO chamber and go to a Wylde chamber which will better allow you to more accurately run a wider range of ammo. Again...as for the twist rate on the barrel...let your particular needs and the ammo (weight of bullet, projectile type, etc.) you plan to shoot out of it dictate the proper twist rate. 1:8 is a great "all around" twist that will handle a wide range of pills from the .223/5.56, but again...it may not be "best" for you.
Depending on what kind of ammo you'll be shooting from it, I'd recommend AGAINST the 5.56 NATO chamber and go to a Wylde chamber which will better allow you to more accurately run a wider range of ammo. Again...as for the twist rate on the barrel...let your particular needs and the ammo (weight of bullet, projectile type, etc.) you plan to shoot out of it dictate the proper twist rate. 1:8 is a great "all around" twist that will handle a wide range of pills from the .223/5.56, but again...it may not be "best" for you.
Yes it is a great choice, also get a rainier ultra match barrel. Mine was a damn good shooter with plenty of velocity for it's length, 24gr varget and a 75-77gr bullet was 2600, 24 tac was close to 2700, wasn't too heavy, super accurate. Perfect size for general use. Also check out the newer midwest quad rails, they are sub 200, lightweight, and very aesthetically pleasing.
That barrel, a quad rail, a decent trigger and a stock like a magpul CTR makes for a very competent rifle.
Thats funny, you described the rifle I built last summer almost to a tee. I love my 16" Rainier match SS barrel. I went with a Midwest Industries gen2 15" rail, Geissele ssa-e, and Magpul STR stock. Its a sub-moa 7.5 lb. rifle that is pretty much perfectly balanced, imo. I think a 16" is the one-size-fits-all length and is capable of doing anything an AR can. If tax stamps weren't an issue, I'd love to try out a 12.5" Noveske Crudaser though!
I agree that 16" is the sweet spot for an all around AR. In fact I just bought a 16" Noveske with switchblock this morning, thanks to Dallas4rcreMarine, for a build I have been planning on for a while. It will be a light precision rig out to 700 yards or as far as I can push it but not so far as to warrant the extra weight and bulk of an 18" rig.
My 16 inch Noveske barreled rifle is by far my favorite. It's the first rifle I grab for pretty much everything. Ringing gongs with the boys out to 800 meters. No problem. Varmint hunting? No problem. Carbine class. No problem. Home defense. No problem.
For "all around use" either a 16" or 18" barrel will work fine depending on what type shooting you anticipate doing more often.
If most of your shooting is 100yds+ with the occasional CQB application, a 18" barrel will probably serve you better. That seems to be the popular length for Multi-gun these days. Most stages are up close hosing with a few longer range stages out to 400-500 yds. You'll give up a little manuverability but gain greater velocity.
If the rifle will be used mainly for "tactical" classes etc where most of the shots are pistol type distance but from awkward positions with the occasional need to hit something at distance, a 16" barrel will work great.
As with so many things, barrel length on an AR is a compromise between velocity and manuverability. As has been mentioned in previous posts, try to get something from a good quality mfg whatever your decision as to length.
If most of your shooting is 100yds+ with the occasional CQB application, a 18" barrel will probably serve you better. That seems to be the popular length for Multi-gun these days. Most stages are up close hosing with a few longer range stages out to 400-500 yds. You'll give up a little manuverability but gain greater velocity.
If the rifle will be used mainly for "tactical" classes etc where most of the shots are pistol type distance but from awkward positions with the occasional need to hit something at distance, a 16" barrel will work great.
As with so many things, barrel length on an AR is a compromise between velocity and manuverability. As has been mentioned in previous posts, try to get something from a good quality mfg whatever your decision as to length.
Lots of data on BCM barrels on M4Carbine.net forums, and the consensus is GTG. They are made for BCM by Kreiger's Criterion Barrels. I have a 18" BCM SS 1-8 w/5.56 SAM-R chamber Rifle gas on my AR.
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I have one, 16", floated in a Daniel Defense Omega Rail. 4x ACOG on top. Geiselle SSA in the lower.
My main load is a 77 Sierra on top of IMR 4895. IF I am shooting well it is a reliable 3/4" to 1" carbine at 100 yds and plinking at 600 yds on steel is great fun. Utterly reliable too.
This carbine has become my all around favorite and it is the one I put in the truck on trips. It will do all that I ask of it and if I think I need more I have 308s. So yes, great barrels!
most people who get a 14.5" barrel just pin the brake making it 16" and not an NFA item.
I do agree with you that if you want a long barrel you might as well make it a bolt gun. I have short M4's and a 20" Rem 700
A 16" can hit out to 800m quite easily with good optics. In fact, there were some posts on M4C awhile back about an actual operator there who had made single-shot kills on human targets at 800yds with a 16" barrel in a (then) recent combat situation.
Look up the SEAL Recce rifle for some pretty fun examples of the accuracy a 16" barrel is capable of.
Look up the SEAL Recce rifle for some pretty fun examples of the accuracy a 16" barrel is capable of.
A good quality 16" barrel can do everything a good quality 18" can do, except it spits out bullets 50-100 FPS slower. A 16" barrel does not have any magical properties, nor does the fact that it is a mere 2" of barrel (18" vs 16") shorter exponentially increase it's handiness.
But if your mission is to shoot MK262 Mod1 type ammo or it's clones (77 grain SMK's or the like @ 2700 fps+) out to the effective limits of the 5.56, then go with an 18" barrel (either 1-7 or 1-8 twist) to maximize available velocity and range. A 16' barrel will shoot the MK262 Mod1 just as accurately as an 18" barrel, just not as far nor as fast.
If on the other hand the majority of your ammo chores and needs, are with bullets lighter then 77 grains, I don't see how a good 18" barrel provides any real advantage over a good 16" one. Your applications and needs should drive your barrel length, not fashion, nor the ease of exiting a vehicle with a loaded M4, that only applies to the few.
But if your mission is to shoot MK262 Mod1 type ammo or it's clones (77 grain SMK's or the like @ 2700 fps+) out to the effective limits of the 5.56, then go with an 18" barrel (either 1-7 or 1-8 twist) to maximize available velocity and range. A 16' barrel will shoot the MK262 Mod1 just as accurately as an 18" barrel, just not as far nor as fast.
If on the other hand the majority of your ammo chores and needs, are with bullets lighter then 77 grains, I don't see how a good 18" barrel provides any real advantage over a good 16" one. Your applications and needs should drive your barrel length, not fashion, nor the ease of exiting a vehicle with a loaded M4, that only applies to the few.
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If this is your first AR I suggest you make it a fighting rifle. Lean heavily toward mil spec. This includes a chrome lined 1/7 twist 5.56 chamber and a carbine length gas system. Daniel Defense makes a great CHF barrel that is darned accurate with good ammo. Several people have suggested stainless steel, wylde chambers, mid length gas systems and such. Hold off on going that route for your second AR. Your primary AR should be ready for battle.
If you want to beat the 18" SPR-type with a quality 16", go MLGS, higher end barrel, and run the 75gr A-MAX, yes the ones that don't fit in a mag-length loading...ah, but they do. That .435 BC smokes the 77gr Sierra's all day long, and can be run at 2700fps with 22.8gr of XBR from at least one Centurion barrel I know of. Dude showed up with one to my DM Course in March and proceeded to make no less that 85% 1st-round hits out to 600yds in 17F with 20-30mph winds (yes it sucked wind-chill wise, but was an excellent opportunity to gain data about what could be done in those conditions).
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/IMG_00461.jpg
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/IMG_00461.jpg
Your pictures not withstanding, I would like to have a little discussion about the efficacy of loading a 75 grain A-Max in a .223 case and running it in an AR magazine.
First let's start with some math:
75 Grain Hornady A-Max
OAL Bullet length 1.110"
BT Length 0.180"
Bearing surface 0.291"
Ogive length 0.619"
AR-15 Max mag length 2.260"
.223 case length 1.760"
.223 Neck length 0.203"
So the nose of the 75 gr A-Max is 0.619" + 1.760"= 2.379" OAL
The only way you can actually seat them then is to have the ogive below the top of the neck. That leaves 0.119" of ogive into the case, and reduces the bearing surface area in the neck from 0.202" to only 0.083" to hold the bullet.
What's really funny is if your going to load it that way, with the ogive intruding into the neck, you would be better off using the 80 gr A-Max. Not only is it's BC is that much better, and even though the bullet's OAL is longer, the length of it's ogive is only 0.607 or 0.012" SHORTER than the 75 grain A-Max.
So yes, you can actually stuff a 75 gr A-Max into a 223 hull, and shoehorn into an 2.260" AR mag. But that's does not mean it's a good idea, and overall it's a generally shoddy reloading practice, that will one day get you or someone into trouble for minimal down range gains.
IMHO and YMMV
I here you daddy. I said the same things, until the guy showed up with them and his system performed the way it did.
When I played with them thinking I got a deal (discounted), I came to the conclusion that they could not be loaded to mag length-no way. Even if you cut the mag body face away, the mag well doesn't even seem long enough for me.
I think the guy who loaded them used a taper to eliminate the gap between the ogive and the neck. All I know is that the performance gains were measurable, as this attendee kept impacting steel with a higher rate than I expected in the conditions with AR15's. Is it an ideal combination? Not really from a dimensional standpoint, but it seems to work.
To top it off, he was shooting suppressed.
When I played with them thinking I got a deal (discounted), I came to the conclusion that they could not be loaded to mag length-no way. Even if you cut the mag body face away, the mag well doesn't even seem long enough for me.
I think the guy who loaded them used a taper to eliminate the gap between the ogive and the neck. All I know is that the performance gains were measurable, as this attendee kept impacting steel with a higher rate than I expected in the conditions with AR15's. Is it an ideal combination? Not really from a dimensional standpoint, but it seems to work.
To top it off, he was shooting suppressed.
This is what I chose BCM SS410™ 16" Mid Length Upper Receiver Group 1/8 Twist (Ionbond BLACK)
Alternative BCM SS410™ 16" Mid Length Upper Receiver Group 1/8 Twist
Alternative BCM SS410™ 16" Mid Length Upper Receiver Group 1/8 Twist
I was torn on barrel length, type, chamber, etc.. and picked the BCM SS410 16" which I posted above. I worried about it's ability until another hide member posted this which shows there is ALOT to be found from all different types of barrels and lengths. Check this out MRP CQB 10.5" on Steel @ 773yds - YouTube
