16" suppressed .308 as a long range setup

[m1ajunkie]

I have been running a 20" .308 barrel on my mws for the past 6 months with great results. However, I am now looking to suppress my rifle and think a shorter barrel would be nice again. Max range I can shoot on a regular basis is 675yds, with the occasional 800-1000yd shot in various competitions I try to shoot in.

With a 16" barrel and suppressor, will I retain enough velocity to make the 800+yd shot on occasion?

Does any one have any velocity numbers for 175gr smk's out of a 16" barrel with suppressor?

In addition to the 16" .308 barrel I am thinking of going with, I am planning to add a better caliber for long range shooting. Thinking of something like a .260 barrel, or having a 7mm-08 barrel made in about 20" to shoot less often. Any input about which other long range caliber you prefer is welcome. Looking at the 7mm-08 has really got me interested in it. High bc's and nice mv's make it seem like a solid caliber for my mws if I can get a barrel.

Any reason I should avoid .260, 6.5 creedmore, 7mm-08 in a semi auto ar? What kind of barrel life can be expected from these rounds?

 

[toddconley]

Re: 16" suppressed .308 as a long range setup

I went down this research road with this setup. Started testing in Jan and am still testing. Wanted a AR for a match gun myself. I have no doubt that any of those other calibers will shoot inside the .308. I would like to have a 6.5 creed upper myself. Some one else with more experience will be able to help you with real world numbers but, I ran the data in all the calculators before I started buying reloading supplies. I can not see how a the 175s can shoot inside the 155s in a 16 in gun. Not forsure what would happen if the barrel was longer. I am shooting a RRA LAR 8 Elite Operator with a 16 in barrel. I can shoot it out to 8 pretty easy. Not as easy as I can shoot my 280 ai but still can get on target pretty well. I think I am gettin about 2680-2690 based on drop numbers and Litz BC for the 155 scenar. Hits are harder past 8 and I have not made it to a grand yet. I bet however if you clean every target from 0-800 you will do pretty well in several matches. I am starting to chat with some builders about building me a upper but,have not made the step yet. I'm not sure you can get a 162 amax in 708 and get inside the mag. I wanted a 243 but I think the creed or the 260 might be te easiest because there is so much proven data in a gas gun. Hope that helps.
Thanks
T

 

[TallShot]

Re: 16" suppressed .308 as a long range setup

Dedicated precision? I tried, and found that my drop and wind was too much for me; past 500..... shooting FGMM 168's.

'Course, I'm damn near below sea level in my area.

 

[KevinB-KAC]

Re: 16" suppressed .308 as a long range setup

We are seeing 2495fps with M118LR in our 16" gun.
Depending on can and ammo, you will see a -/+ 25fps difference.
Most will be + but some Lapua ammo does not seem to like cans and actually slows down.

 

[m1ajunkie]

Re: 16" suppressed .308 as a long range setup

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KevinB-KAC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We are seeing 2495fps with M118LR in our 16" gun.
Depending on can and ammo, you will see a -/+ 25fps difference.
Most will be + but some Lapua ammo does not seem to like cans and actually slows down.

</div></div>

Kevin,

KAC's m110 carbine is what convinced me that the 16" barrel was enough for a precision .308, especially if I keep a .260 barrel around for the rare times I get to go past my regular 675yds.

The issue I am debating at the moment about the 16" mws .308 barrels are that it's a carbine gas system. I plan to run a surefire 762ss reflex suppressor so I don't think a rifle length gas system would work with that suppressor due to the mount. It would be nice if there was a midlength option out there, because this rifle will be basically 100% suppressed and I'd like to keep from causing extra wear if possible.

As far as other calibers, I have been running numbers in jbm's calculator trying to decide which other caliber I might be most pleased with. FWIW, I have found that the range I normally shoot at is well covered by the .308 even with the 16" barrel, and I would only benefit by the 260, or 7mm-08's if I ever got to shoot past 800yds.

ETA:

Todd,
I tried pm'ing you but your box is full. I just figured out we shot together at the last pmg match, and I was your driver most of the time.

 

[toddconley]

Re: 16" suppressed .308 as a long range setup

I got it now. Cleaned out the box. Pm away. Also, think about what you are doing. You are talking about saving 4 in with the 16in barrel. If the gun came with a 16 no big deal. In my opinion you have quite alot to lose. Even with the rifle being a 16 plus can you still have a long weapon. What is 4 more inches? If it was like a 12 or 10 plus can then you have something pretty short and surpressed. But really 16 plus can or 20 plus can same/same. You and I arent going to be clearing any rooms or shooting any bad guys. You know it is going to cost you money to make the change, And lets not forget the 100fps or so you lost. The 308 aint exactly laser to start with. As for the new upper. I think simple is better. Buy a 6.5 Creed and some hornady factory loads. Shoot them up get your dope save your brass. Reload with same load on the box and repeat.

 

[BCP]

Re: 16" suppressed .308 as a long range setup

IIRC there was a thread about this awhile ago and the conclusion was that 16" wasn't enough for "long range" but it was adequate for everything else.

Velocity I'd guess between 2450 and 2500 at the max depending on your load.

 

[Dsparil]

Re: 16" suppressed .308 as a long range setup

Where are you able to even get M118LR?

 

[Lowlight]

Re: 16" suppressed .308 as a long range setup

My Fancy GAP Custom <span style="font-style: italic">(semi)</span> is getting just shy of 2600fps from my 16" tight bore 308 with M118LR. I was using 39MOA to 1000 yards at sea level. But that is a custom Bartlein Tight Bore upper... and AAC Suppressor.

It's not that consistent at 1000 yards, but an absolute hammer at 800 yards.

 

[Dsparil]

Re: 16" suppressed .308 as a long range setup

Lowlight: is there a specific place you get your m118LR from?

 

[KevinB-KAC]

Re: 16" suppressed .308 as a long range setup

Most M118LR I have seen recently is not worth getting...

BlackHills 175gr is shooting way better, between that and AB39 (Mk316) they the most accurate non handloaded ammo available, and I dont think AB39 is available to non Mil/Industry.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: 16" suppressed .308 as a long range setup

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dsparil</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lowlight: is there a specific place you get your m118LR from?</div></div>

it's military not commercial... the Mk316 has been clocking about 50fps faster than the M118LR, at least by my chronograph reports out of a Mk11 etc... the new stuff is definitely pretty good.

But commercial I recommend either Southwest or the Cor Bon. Cor Bon has a new load which I recorded going 2770fps out of my 22" Valkyrie so it's screaming with great accuracy and no pressure signs.

I haven't shot BHA in quite a while, I mainly stick with the two above commercially.

 

[m1ajunkie]

Re: 16" suppressed .308 as a long range setup

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My Fancy GAP Custom <span style="font-style: italic">(semi)</span> is getting just shy of 2600fps from my 16" tight bore 308 with M118LR. I was using 39MOA to 1000 yards at sea level. But that is a custom Bartlein Tight Bore upper... and AAC Suppressor.

It's not that consistent at 1000 yards, but an absolute hammer at 800 yards. </div></div>

LL, that sounds really fast for a 16" barrel. I am just getting about 2590 out of my 20" barrel with a 175gr bullet over varget. After joining the training section and working on the fundamentals, I have become very pleased with my ability to shoot the .308 gas gun.

I am looking for a setup now that is cheap to practice with(.308) to learn to dope wind, and then when a match comes around swap to the .260, or 6.5 cm have a little more forgiving bullet in the windy conditions.

Does this sound like a plausible plan, or would I be better off sticking with one barrel and caliber and try to wear it out?

 

[mkollman74]

Re: 16" suppressed .308 as a long range setup

I was with some fellas at a precision rifle class this weekend. Two of them were shooting OBRs, one 16" and one 18". Neither one of them had any trouble getting hits out to 1150 in wind that was gusting at 10-12 mph. I believe they were shooting HSM and Federal. I know the 18" was supressed, and I believe the 16" was also suppressed some of the time. The performance of the OBRs really opened my eyes.

 

[m1ajunkie]

Re: 16" suppressed .308 as a long range setup

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mkollman74</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was with some fellas at a precision rifle class this weekend. Two of them were shooting OBRs, one 16" and one 18". Neither one of them had any trouble getting hits out to 1150 in wind that was gusting at 10-12 mph. I believe they were shooting HSM and Federal. I know the 18" was supressed, and I believe the 16" was also suppressed some of the time. The performance of the OBRs really opened my eyes. </div></div>

Very interesting. From what I have been reading the 16" .308 is a very capable set up in the hands of a solid shooter.

I am thinking that if the OBR and GAP-10 can do it, I don't see why my lmt can't.....

 

[ggmanning]

Re: 16" suppressed .308 as a long range setup

I have shot my POF .308 pretty often to 800. I am shooting 155 Berger VLD's at 2550, so not screaming. It is losing steam soon after that......and the fact that I shoot it better within 800yds. Definitely a combination that works.

 

[m1ajunkie]

Re: 16" suppressed .308 as a long range setup

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ggmanning</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have shot my POF .308 pretty often to 800. I am shooting 155 Berger VLD's at 2550, so not screaming. It is losing steam soon after that......and the fact that I shoot it better within 800yds. Definitely a combination that works. </div></div>

I have always been a fan of the 175smk for longer range shooting and just recently started liking the 178 amax.

Are the 175 and 178 solid performer's from the short barrel, or do most shoot the slightly lighter bullets from a shorter barrel? I see a lot of people shooting the 155's out to extended distances, mainly from gas guns.

 

[ggmanning]

Re: 16" suppressed .308 as a long range setup

I prefer the 175-190's in my bolt gun but chose the 155's as what I felt was the best combo of velocity and ballistics from the short barrel. Don't know if that is sound for argument's sake but it worked well for me.

 

[BCP]

Re: 16" suppressed .308 as a long range setup

178 amax is the best bullet out of my 18" AR 308 so far and it's cheaper than the SMK to boot.

 

[BCP]

Re: 16" suppressed .308 as a long range setup

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ggmanning</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't know if that is sound for argument's sake</div></div>

If it works it works.

 

[bmt]

Re: 16" suppressed .308 as a long range setup

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">IIRC there was a thread about this awhile ago and the conclusion was that 16" wasn't enough for "long range" but it was adequate for everything else.

Velocity I'd guess between 2450 and 2500 at the max depending on your load. </div></div>

I get 2450 out of my 16' AR with 175s. It matches 303 Brit Ballistics very very well.

 

[Daps!]

Re: 16" suppressed .308 as a long range setup

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mkollman74</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was with some fellas at a precision rifle class this weekend. Two of them were shooting OBRs, one 16" and one 18". Neither one of them had any trouble getting hits out to 1150 in wind that was gusting at 10-12 mph. I believe they were shooting HSM and Federal. I know the 18" was supressed, and I believe the 16" was also suppressed some of the time. The performance of the OBRs really opened my eyes. </div></div>
I was also at this course and those guys were hammering the steel. The OBR was impressive to say the least. That being said the shooters were no slouches.

 

[mkollman74]

Re: 16" suppressed .308 as a long range setup

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Daps!</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mkollman74</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was with some fellas at a precision rifle class this weekend. Two of them were shooting OBRs, one 16" and one 18". Neither one of them had any trouble getting hits out to 1150 in wind that was gusting at 10-12 mph. I believe they were shooting HSM and Federal. I know the 18" was supressed, and I believe the 16" was also suppressed some of the time. The performance of the OBRs really opened my eyes. </div></div>
I was also at this course and those guys were hammering the steel. The OBR was impressive to say the least. That being said the shooters were no slouches. </div></div>

No doubt, the shooters were on their game. It also didn't hurt to be getting wind calls from a from former Marine sniper instructor...