17hmr accuracy

[mop89]

Hey guys, I recently purchased a 17 hmr Lilja barrel for my CZ457.

this is my first 17 I’ve shot, let alone owned. But would often hear guys either at the range when I’m plinking with my .22 or family friends tell me how I should try .17 as they “shoot one hole”

well I’ve tried a few different rounds.. hornady 20gr xtp, hornady 17gr vmax, cci 17gr vmax, cci a17, and federal 17gr vmax. From what I’m gathering online all of those 17gr vmax are manufactured by CCI but rebranded as whoever? They all shoot about the same so that’d make sense. The cci A17 seemed to shoot the best, but even then it’s very inconsistent.

Is this to be expected now a days with 17hmr? Does anyone know of a consistent ammo? I just placed another order with SGAmmo with 6 different boxes of ammo to try those out, some Remington accutip, some 15.5 grain NTX, cci 17gr TNT, cci VNT, etc

Hope to find something consistent, or I’m beginning to think this Lilja barrel wasn’t worth the cost - not by fault of Lilja but simply because no one makes ammo worth a damn for 17 hmr

 

[Near miss]

It is what it is..
For me A17 and Gamepoints are the best.

Keep buying boxes until you hit to some better manufactured stuff. That better lot or either it is the fact that I have stopped cleaning copper out of my barrel. 1.2moa to 1moa.

 

[mop89]

That’s a bummer, was .17 as good as people once claimed?

 

[justin amateur]

When the machines were new, tolerances might have been tighter. Now, after all these years, niether CCI or Winchester, produce anything but hunting or plinking rimfire ammo.

Browning is relabeled Winchester, everything else is relabeled CCI.

I use one of the first Lilja heavy barrel 17 hmr that were produced.
When I find a good box of cartridges, amazing things can happen at 200 yards.
See the 6x5 results for the few 17 hmr targets posted.

 

[steve123]

Slightly OT but this is why I made up a reduced load for my 20-221AI/32's at 2330 fps/8SD/ .4" at 100Y, and didn't buy another 17hmr.

 

[mop89]

Slightly OT but this is why I made up a reduced load for my 20-221AI/32's at 2330 fps/8SD/ .4" at 100Y, and didn't buy another 17hmr.

I gotcha, was hoping to buy a relatively inexpensive rim fire (in comparison to center fire) and not deal with reloading

 

[Booner1334]

In shooting my 17 hmr this past summer I had a lot of split necks. Don't they anneal the brass anymore?
I used to shoot the 17 hmr a lot about 10 years ago and can't remember having split necks.

 

[Near miss]

Its the dream 250yd RF caliber, ruined by bad manufacturing.

But considering how 22LR lives now its second gold age, maybe 17HMR will get some attention too.

About time I'd say.

 

[Booner1334]

I think Mr. Amatuer is correct. CCI hasn't changed out their machinery since they started production.
It's kind of sad as I think there is a solid place for this round in the shooting community. But from my recent experience, I'm not happy with how well the round shoots. I remember 1 inch groups at 100 yards, but that was 10 years ago.
I may sell or give the rifle to my nephew, and concentrate on the .22 lr.

 

[justin amateur]

If used for it's intended purpose, hunting/varminting, the 17 hmr is a more than adequate cartridge.
Attempt to use it for precision paper punching, you'll end up disappointed.

I spent some time testing the newer 17wsm.
Made only by Winchester, no matter the label on the box,
and it did very well, as a varminting cartridge.
Long term results will depend on how well Winchester maintains the machinery.
I'm not optimistic.

 

[Cuzz]

Hey guys, I recently purchased a 17 hmr Lilja barrel for my CZ457.

this is my first 17 I’ve shot, let alone owned. But would often hear guys either at the range when I’m plinking with my .22 or family friends tell me how I should try .17 as they “shoot one hole”

well I’ve tried a few different rounds.. hornady 20gr xtp, hornady 17gr vmax, cci 17gr vmax, cci a17, and federal 17gr vmax. From what I’m gathering online all of those 17gr vmax are manufactured by CCI but rebranded as whoever? They all shoot about the same so that’d make sense. The cci A17 seemed to shoot the best, but even then it’s very inconsistent.

Is this to be expected now a days with 17hmr? Does anyone know of a consistent ammo? I just placed another order with SGAmmo with 6 different boxes of ammo to try those out, some Remington accutip, some 15.5 grain NTX, cci 17gr TNT, cci VNT, etc

Hope to find something consistent, or I’m beginning to think this Lilja barrel wasn’t worth the cost - not by fault of Lilja but simply because no one makes ammo worth a damn for 17 hmr

A lot of us shoot a box of ammo and only remember the one good group. It can be very misleading on a forum.

 

[Nodak]

My best groups with my 17hmr are one hole all day long. Shoot ounce and make one hole in the gopher. Perfect for it's intended purpose. No one has ever made target ammo for the 17hmr. I wish every Shot Show that someone would step up and say, ya, we made a match grade HMR. I guess I can shit in one hand and wish in the other to see which fills 1st.

 

[mop89]

I’d easily pay twice the cost for match .17

 

[Near miss]

There is already match cartridge for 22WMR from RWS.

I remember my heart skipping a beat when I heard Norma was starting production. Too bad it was just relabeled CCI.

 

[mop89]

How does the match .22 WMR shoot from RWS?

 

[justin amateur]

Here in the US, don't use the words "match grade" and "22wmr" together, unless y'er going for the laugh.
RWS 22wmr at 100 bucks per box of 50 with an ES in excess of 230 fps, results in an expensive giggle.
Go ahead, ask me how I earned that morsel of knowledge?

 

[orkan]

You may like an article I wrote on 17HMR a couple years back.

17HMR - Past Meets Present :: Primal Rights, Inc

It's hard to believe that 16 years have gone by since Hornady released the .17 Hornady Magnum Rimfire in 2002. The release of the 17HMR was received with excitement by some shooters. Other shooters viewed it as a total joke. Even today there is a large segment of the population that views the...

www.primalrights.com

Consistently accurate ammo is difficult to find, but if you lot test and buy a large quantity when you find something good... you can overcome that. The small .17 cal holes when grouped, look decidedly unimpressive compared to .22 cal holes... but I wouldn't call a proper rifle with a good batch of ammo "not accurate" either.

The main issue is that people generally do not understand how terrible .17's are in the wind... or even in a breeze for that matter. The tiniest wind variable will show up. They simply lack the mass to overcome it, despite speeding along quite quickly. The 17WSM and even the 17 hornet are still not able to overcome it... so the 17HMR is certainly not. If the wind is peaking at 5mph or less... that is a great day to shoot 17's. If it's over that by any appreciable amount, you'll quickly realize the horizontal stringing going up, as well as the associated vertical created by bullets of low mass/bc and their corresponding aerodynamic jump. It will happen at much closer distances with much less wind than anything else I've ever seen.

 

[justin amateur]

Interesting, I do better with 17 hmr even under breezy conditions, compared to most 22lr and all 22wmr.
I've got target results and chrony numbers if interested.
Most every brand and type of rimfire sold.

The 17 is less affected by wind than 22 rimfire. Something about mv and bc resulting in less drift.

In case y'er wondering why I'm intruding so much today.
I've got the flu. Why should I have to be the only one being miserable?

 

[mop89]

Read that article Orkan - interesting read, thanks for sharing

 

[justin amateur]

Spent 30 minutes comparing data with a ballistic calculator.
Out to about 350 to 400 yards, looks like the 17 is the cartridge with the least drift.
Some one check my results, make sure the NyQuil isn't messing with my data.

 

[orkan]

It's obvious that some think I'm saying something I'm not saying.

What is it you think I'm saying, that you disagree with?

 

[justin amateur]

Orkan, I'm an annoying old coot with way too much time on my hands.
I'm trying to correlate your data and conclusions with my results and some time spent punching numbers into the ballistic calculator.
The 17 shows less wind induced drift.
What am I missing?
Smaller crossectional area, more efficient shape, higher mv means shorter time of flight, right?
Don't get pissed, as an amateur I ask lots of questions when things don't make sense.

Below is a link to my current project, 50 shots at 200 yards,

50 at 200

I think I've come up with a useful scenario...maybe. :rolleyes: 50 shots at 200 yards, rimfire, whatever setup makes you happy. 22lr, 17 hmr, 22wmr, 17hm2, 17wsm, all brands, all types. Full benchrest setup, bipod, bags or one-piece test rest, it doesn't matter. Grab a chunk of cardboard, about...

www.rimfirecentral.com

There's my results, all 22lr, 22wmr, 17 hmr, 17 wsm.
Am I drawing the wrong conclusions from the data?

Feel free to critique the results.
I have no problem having someone point out my mistakes.
Only way I can learn.

 

[orkan]

The 17 shows less wind induced drift.

Less than what?

 

[justin amateur]

Less than the 22lr and 22wmr.

Better results on target with the 17.

 

[orkan]

Less than the 22lr and 22wmr.

Was someone claiming to the contrary?

 

[justin amateur]

Understood, I misread the comment regarding how much the 17 is affected by wind,
subconsciously filling in with a comparison to other rimfire cartridges.
Thanks for taking the time to clear my confusion, Orkan
I blame the NyQuil. I hate the flu.

 

[orkan]

No worries.

The general idea is that when you have a cartridge that you routinely have to hold half a mil, or even 1.5 mils of wind at 100yds... its very bad in the wind. A 10mph wind with most 17hmr ammo is about 7 tenths of a mil of drift at 100yds. 20mph is 1.4 or so. Even a 17 hornet, with a 25gr bullet rather than a 17gr, travelling at 3600fps rather than 2500, needs .4 mil in 10mph and .8 in 20mph at 100yds.

So suffice it to say, 17's are extremely bad in the wind compared to nearly everything else, within each cartridge's respective class. Even when comparing 17 centerfire's with heavy-for-cal bullets... the wind eats 17's alive in conditions that are quite workable with 22cal centerfires.

22lr with 100yd zero and 10mph full value wind will require around 1.0 mil of windage adjustment, with 20mph requiring around 2.0 mils respectively. So as you can see, while the 22lr is indeed worse, it is only marginally so, with the 17 hmr out performing it by three tenths of a mil. So despite the 17hmr's roughly 250% speed advantage over a 22lr, it can only beat its wind drift by roughly 30%.

Pretty poor performance by any measure, I think.

 

[Cuzz]

I’d easily pay twice the cost for match .17

Spent 30 minutes comparing data with a ballistic calculator.
Out to about 350 to 400 yards, looks like the 17 is the cartridge with the least drift.
Some one check my results, make sure the NyQuil isn't messing with my data.

GIT WELL

 

[Gee Kay]

i have the savage b17 in its POS tuppaware stock that comes bent from the factory.
best i've done with it on 2 occasions was head shots at foxes at about 70-80m.

i took it out on a gusty night and boy was it a pain to shoot.
instead of a head shots they landed in the foxes stomach.
it walked about 20m before it dropped. i finished it off with a head shot up close.

after that night i don't bother with the 17hmr, not worth the hassle.

 

[Near miss]

I see I made a rough mistake there and wish to correct it.

I meant to say "There are match grade priced cartridges for 22WMR."

 

[steve123]

I gotcha, was hoping to buy a relatively inexpensive rim fire (in comparison to center fire) and not deal with reloading

I was too but Justin's tests and my personal experience swayed me away!

I don't like reloading anymore than the next guy but I have more time than money and weighing powder down to the kernel really has it's advantages when I see how well this load shoots, even though I haven't found a optimal powder for this round using a reduced load to get lower ES. I haven't tried trail boss yet....

20-221AI = I could get 3900 fps with a 32gr/.210BC for max load with AA2200 but I use temp stable H4198 which gets me a 3735 fps medium load out of a 21" barrel. It's super versatile, I love this cartridge!!!

Me, I couldn't get enthused about 17hmr for Pd's because after a few kills only the longer shots were available. Maybe I could for colony varmints like those potguts and squirrley's that are super prolific, and keeping most shots under 150y, but they aren't where I live.

It's disturbing for me to think that 6mmPPC BR groups at 200Y can be .3" for 10 shots!!!! Then look at Justin's groups which are awful in comparison, not his ability or fault, just the crap ammo. This BR gunsmith I used to use had a plack on a wall showing his 300Y club record of 5 shots all touching, like low .3"!!!!

Last year a .282" five shot group was done at 600Y with a 6mmBRA.

See why I can't abide rimfires that much??!! And I do love my 22rf's, heck I won the last NRL22 match I was in, it's just that I don't bother with them past 200Y much anymore - poor ES. I don't expect anymore than what they are, nor 17hmr.

Orkan, that is a kick ass 17hmr 40x you had built!

My dream rifle would be a tiny centerfire (smaller than 20-221AI) but staying with 20 cal, using 10 round or more magazines, in a high quality platform like a Vudoo!!! I couldn't resist but to have a fancy Cerus laminated stock done for it as well!!!!

If I couldn't have that then I'd have a Borden drop port done.

 

[MarkCZ]

Hey guys, I recently purchased a 17 hmr Lilja barrel for my CZ457.

this is my first 17 I’ve shot, let alone owned. But would often hear guys either at the range when I’m plinking with my .22 or family friends tell me how I should try .17 as they “shoot one hole”

well I’ve tried a few different rounds.. hornady 20gr xtp, hornady 17gr vmax, cci 17gr vmax, cci a17, and federal 17gr vmax. From what I’m gathering online all of those 17gr vmax are manufactured by CCI but rebranded as whoever? They all shoot about the same so that’d make sense. The cci A17 seemed to shoot the best, but even then it’s very inconsistent.

Is this to be expected now a days with 17hmr? Does anyone know of a consistent ammo? I just placed another order with SGAmmo with 6 different boxes of ammo to try those out, some Remington accutip, some 15.5 grain NTX, cci 17gr TNT, cci VNT, etc

Hope to find something consistent, or I’m beginning to think this Lilja barrel wasn’t worth the cost - not by fault of Lilja but simply because no one makes ammo worth a damn for 17 hmr

My CZ 455 likes the 20 gr ammo best, next is the CCI TNT 17 gr, close is A17. The other tipped bullets next down. My CZ shoots all ammo good, but the CCI 20gr Gamepoints and Hornaday 20 gr XTP are night and day better.
Mark

 

[Kisssofdeath]

My Tikka 17 HMR likes everything. These are all 10 shot groups shot at 55 yards using 8 different cartridges.

 

[brian01tj]

Just like Kissofdeath posted, my Tikka T1x also likes most ammo. When I bought I tried several brands and weight bullets. Ive found that the Hornady 17gr vmax are the most reliable at feeding and group size. The 20gr were also good shooters but would occasionally not feed 100%