18.5 barrel too short for 1000 yards
- Thread starter ryu_sekai
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"Shooting the GA Precision Gladius Rifle at 800 and 1000 yards in Byers, CO. The rifle features an 18.5" barrel, and is a light, versatile 308."
GAP Gladius - YouTube
Assuming 308, of course. You need speed (and the right bullet), regardless of barrel length. Over 2600 fps for consistent reach to 1000.
"Shooting the GA Precision Gladius Rifle at 800 and 1000 yards in Byers, CO. The rifle features an 18.5" barrel, and is a light, versatile 308."
GAP Gladius - YouTube
Assuming 308, of course. You need speed (and the right bullet), regardless of barrel length. Over 2600 fps for consistent reach to 1000.
I've shot my 16" 308 and 175SMK's to 1178, and plenty of times to 1000. It's really dropping them in, but it can be done.
Branden
Branden
Just some quick data.
Using the bullet you mention, and assuming the following velocities at 59 degrees, BP 29.92:
2700 - subsonic at 922 yards
2800 - at 969
2900 - at 1014
So, while you may be able to throw lead out to 1000, some say that once you go subsonic you will loose accuracy. You would need to be getting about 2900 FPS out of your 18.5" barrel to ensure supersonic out to 1000.
Respectfully,
J Woo
Using the bullet you mention, and assuming the following velocities at 59 degrees, BP 29.92:
2700 - subsonic at 922 yards
2800 - at 969
2900 - at 1014
So, while you may be able to throw lead out to 1000, some say that once you go subsonic you will loose accuracy. You would need to be getting about 2900 FPS out of your 18.5" barrel to ensure supersonic out to 1000.
Respectfully,
J Woo
I'd think you might want to check the math. I believe he mentioned 168 or 175 SMKs so I'll focus on the better bullet for the range stated. 175 SMK at 2600fps from any barrel will not be subsonic at 1000y under most shooting conditions, unless your AD goes way, way below sea level. They also seem to transition a bit better for me than the 168s. Here is them at a range near sea level AD 200' 17/25 of a bipod on a 10" plate at 1100 yards. Light charge 43 grains Varget for 2650FPS.
While I don't have pictures of my 18.5", it managed 2500fps with the same light load and stayed just supersonic at 1k -- it would be best to juice up the load to get 2600 fps. Btw, if you are down range, bullets that have gone subsonic and lost stability, sound differently as they flutter past you.
Jt
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Thanks! Ran the numbers again with the 175 (the first numbers were using the 168), the 175's seem to be supersonic even at 2650. But 2650 was the minimum...
I'm not really driven by theoretical numbers, but by the actual shot. Just some interesting data that the OP can take for what it's worth.
Respectfully,
J Woo
Going short is a compromise, you trade performance of any caliber for portability. So the short answer is... it depends.
18.5 barrel too short for 1000 yards
Having elevation on your side helps. Immensely.
155/168 Berger Hybrids would help too, though OP mentioned 168/175 SMK.
I shot a 16.5" 308 to 900 with 168 TAP and probably would have had little trouble with hits on an IPSC (10" round was much harder)...but it was definitely running out of gas at that point with density altitude in the 1000' range.
Having elevation on your side helps. Immensely.
155/168 Berger Hybrids would help too, though OP mentioned 168/175 SMK.
I shot a 16.5" 308 to 900 with 168 TAP and probably would have had little trouble with hits on an IPSC (10" round was much harder)...but it was definitely running out of gas at that point with density altitude in the 1000' range.
Is this 1000yd shooting for shits and giggles, or serious comps? If for s'&g's go for it and have fun. If for serious comps. You'er wasting good ammo and money!!!!!
If 1000 yards is the intended use of the rifle, I'd say it is too short. It is certainly capable of making hits at that distance, and beyond but it is not the right tool for the job. Then again, if you have a choice of caliber, 308 isn't the best choice for that distance either.
I think pretty much everyone's summed up the key points on the compromises etc. and how neither a .308 nor a short barrel is the "ideal" setup, but I like shorter handier rifles over 26" tubes. You lose velocity and need more elevation, but if your rounds are remaining stable then I dont' think you're giving up a ton of accuracy.
I have 3 precision .308s, the long barrel is 20". I haven't been able to shoot the 16" or 20" yet but like a number of guys, I've taken the 18" out to about 1200 or so and had hits and meaningful misses with Black Hills 175s which IIRC tend to run slower than FGMM. I think I was transonic approaching 1000, but apparently maintained reasonable stability because I was hitting all the way through transonic into subsonic.
By "meaningful misses" I mean that if I corrected for splash my follow-up shots were within an acceptable realm of where they should have been rather than a case where I was getting an unpredictable shotgun pattern out there and "chasing the spotter".
I have 3 precision .308s, the long barrel is 20". I haven't been able to shoot the 16" or 20" yet but like a number of guys, I've taken the 18" out to about 1200 or so and had hits and meaningful misses with Black Hills 175s which IIRC tend to run slower than FGMM. I think I was transonic approaching 1000, but apparently maintained reasonable stability because I was hitting all the way through transonic into subsonic.
By "meaningful misses" I mean that if I corrected for splash my follow-up shots were within an acceptable realm of where they should have been rather than a case where I was getting an unpredictable shotgun pattern out there and "chasing the spotter".
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My personal experience with my 20" Bartlein is Black Hills 175's run consistently ~100 fps slower than FGMM 175's (GM762M2).
Sounds about right, it rained like hell the one day I was able to try to shoot this leave, so I didn't get to run any of them over the new Magnetospeed, but I'm pretty sure I'm using 2450 as my MV out of the 18 with the BH 175s and didn't need to make any corrections when truing it, so that 100fps figure is probably pretty much dead on.
Also gotta take in to account if the barrel is a FACTORY Remington or Winchester or Savage because, at least in my experience, they seem to be slower than a good smooth aftermarket barrel.
I have a Remington LTR in 308 with a 20" barrel. It will not consistently stay supersonic at 1000 yards at about 1000 ft. density altitude utilizing Black Hills 175 match ammo. About every 3rd or 4th shot would go off somewhere unexpected, and not by just a little.
A good aftermarket barrel will gain about 100 fps over a crappy factory barrel, and that makes all the difference.
I have a Remington LTR in 308 with a 20" barrel. It will not consistently stay supersonic at 1000 yards at about 1000 ft. density altitude utilizing Black Hills 175 match ammo. About every 3rd or 4th shot would go off somewhere unexpected, and not by just a little.
A good aftermarket barrel will gain about 100 fps over a crappy factory barrel, and that makes all the difference.
