1st women to pass army sniper program.
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Good for her. If she was held to the same level as men in the course then she is g2g
Glad you think there funny. In my about to be 23 years of service I have had female troops that ran circles around the male counterparts. Usually not in the physical stuff but in the thinking and execution to solve a problem.
oh i dont disagree at all. but its the physical part that they cant pass on the same standards. you know it. i know it and they know it. i mean they practically walked those female officers through ranger school. they got more chances than any male ever would. in my day, i saw females get 3 4 5 redos on flight exam practicals while the men got 1 redo and your out.
if the standards were equal i would have no issue.
General Milley?
When it comes to military standards for certain programs, it seems only the Army passes these women. There seems to be largest amount of woke bureaucrats in that exist in the army too. I dare say the standards change often. Plus you have too many POGs in charge of your service.
Also the standard of running around male counter parts in the 11b to cav scouts in the army is a small standard to begin with.
How many women have have made in any other program that has been open for years now? In organizations that refuse to lower said standard. I can tell you the Marine Corps didn’t.
We can compare the best females vs the worst males…but we both know when it comes to special programs, combat related qualifications and jobs, only being the better than standards, and your peers (selectee’s) is what matters.
From what I’ve seen, it’s extremely rare to have a female both want to do an job of such AND be qualified in merit or physically for when it matters.
There are more than a few excellent female shooters out there. Pretty sure Regina or Lena can more than hold there own.
yeah but they cant pass the physical part. the shooting is like a tenth of being an actual "sniper" Find me a female that can throw a 210 lb soldier in full kit over their shoulder and carry them for even 50 yds and maybe you have a contender. maybe. pull ups. obstacle course. running. swimming and all the other bullshit. no way they pass with the same standards. youd have to gender normalize that shit and that doesnt help anyone, especially the female.
I can’t speak too much for the army side but I can tell you the shooting aspect is (important) but a very small portion of the totality of training and the job itself.
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This ^^^
.... the shooting required to graduate us army sniper school is actually pretty easy. You lose most of your class not being able to ruck, pass target detection / RE ...and the real deal breaker for a large percentage of the washouts. Stalking.... Which personally is a riot
Well I met a F35 demo pilot this year that could do things with that plane that would make many grown men pass out. Oh yea, she was a petite female. Flying a fighter is a different type of being physical fit, but still very physical nontheless. Everyone in here comparing females to grunt only positions when there are many other types of "physical" none grunt duties...
The modern female fighter pilot is diffeent. the pushing them through mentality has mostly since been stopped. they learned their lessons. the vast majority today have rightfully earned their place in the seat and id happily fly with any of them and have. hell thunderbird number 5 is a woman. but a female fighter pilot isnt carrying a fucking 30 lb rifle and 90 lbs of gear and dragging a grunt out of the line of fire. its not apples to apples to say that just because they can fly the F35 they can be a sniper. sure, they absolutely can, but the difference is the female pilot has the same standards as a male pilot in all aspects. thats the key. there is no gender normalizing (other than probably the annual physical fitness test required by the service which usually are gender normalized for some reason).
In the 90's when we first started getting female aviators........it was a mess. many good people died because many were allowed to continue when they should have been grounded.
So you're saying physical standards don't matter?
Or that they're the same for both genders?
In the Navy differences in physical strength and fitness don't matter when you're sitting on a console, but they sure as fuck matter when that same compartment is engulfed in flames (or flooding) with dead and wounded sailors lying around.
Did you miss my very first response? "Good for her. If she was held to the same level as men in the course then she is g2g"
Bitch,
I don’t care about that shit. You came on here cheerleading for woman’s rights on a thread talking all that shit specifically about a female sniper graduate. Snipers are grunts. There are no pilot snipers. Get back to reality and save us the the feminist pov.
Life is a lot better in war in a fast mover or circling a around at 25,000 ft. If I call for air, I don’t care if the pilot is female or male…they need to be quick and accurate. That’s all I care about.
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Wow calling someone a bitch seems excessive. I bet you're a blast at parties. Does your wife wear the pants in your house and you have to come here to feel Important?
See that's the thing, many in combat roles are still not.
I'm former Navy so that's the lens I look at this from. In the fleet, there are no REMFs. Admin types have general quarters (battle) stations doing firefighting, damage control, casualty evac and care, etc that can range from cake to extremely physical. Everyone's exposed to the same incoming fire no matter what they do for a day job.
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What branch of service are you? Ohh wait, nevermind. 23 years means you forgot what troop life is. Being called bitch ruffled your panties when most look past it or consider it like any other term like dick, dick head, fuck up and a few others.
Maybe "bitch" actually hit it's mark.
No. You don’t like being called a bitch stop acting like one with all your fucking pog talk. It’s dirty and my op tempo is higher than jodie’s on YOUR wife. Bitch.
You sound like an angry transgender off their meds. Bet you'll get a good va rating for that...
Lol
You sound like you love being fucked amazon style by said transgender. You pogs love going to Thailand.
Bet you WON’T get a good rating for that. They’ll tell you it’s not service connected.
Most combat dudes, even back in the early 2000’s (let alone most current security contractors or firefighters) can’t put 210# on their shoulder with kit on and move 25yds. Most can barely swim in board shorts for any amount of time either. Same goes for pull ups.
All combat MOS standards should be gender and age neutral. Technically all deployable personnel should be required to maintain the combat mos fitness requirement standards…but that will never happen.
In General Response to such a thread:
Props to all who graduate and earn the title, man or woman. Those who shit talk such accomplishments typically have never done it themselves or were/are insecure shitbags. Are there exceptions? Absolutely. Let’s not take away from one’s accomplishments and let their reputation do the leg work. This is what’s makes us better than the assholes who look to put down those who have accomplished what they failed to do.
yes agreed. I was exaggerating to make a point. I've said it before, under the same set of standards for any job, im all for it. But we should not lower current standards to accomodate and we should not circumvent the standards just to say we did it.Most combat dudes, even back in the early 2000’s (let alone most current security contractors or firefighters) can’t put 210# on their shoulder with kit on and move 25yds. Most can barely swim in board shorts for any amount of time either. Same goes for pull ups.
All combat MOS standards should be gender and age neutral. Technically all deployable personnel should be required to maintain the combat mos fitness requirement standards…but that will never happen.
In General Response to such a thread:
Props to all who graduate and earn the title, man or woman. Those who shit talk such accomplishments typically have never done it themselves or were/are insecure shitbags. Are there exceptions? Absolutely. Let’s not take away from one’s accomplishments and let their reputation do the leg work. This is what’s makes us better than the assholes who look to put down those who have accomplished what they failed to do.
obviously we will never know if the same standard was held. i remain skeptical, especially given today's military. And unfortunately for her, she may never get the actual recognition she may deserve because of it. I admit my bias openly. ive seen to many people get killed or hurt because of this shit.
Most combat dudes, even back in the early 2000’s (let alone most current security contractors or firefighters) can’t put 210# on their shoulder with kit on and move 25yds. Most can barely swim in board shorts for any amount of time either. Same goes for pull ups.
All combat MOS standards should be gender and age neutral. Technically all deployable personnel should be required to maintain the combat mos fitness requirement standards…but that will never happen.
In General Response to such a thread:
Props to all who graduate and earn the title, man or woman. Those who shit talk such accomplishments typically have never done it themselves or were/are insecure shitbags
That’s sweet coming from someone with the screen name m8541reaper. Again, where the fuck is this standard of 210lbs coming from. Your main pack in the corps aren’t even rated to that weight. If you’re talking about maybe carrying full kit and a mk19 up to a hill to a machine gun position…uh yeah…it sucks. The difference is….if a female is there and can’t do it…a dude has to do it. The programs I seen, the doing it once wasn’t even the real problem. It was the doing this stuff for months on end where the problems layed.
So again…there’s nothing wrong with a female passing if she earned it…the problem is confidence of the institution to not have lowered standards and push a student through to be a poster child of progressivism.
That’s dangerous. For all things that involve a selection process…the standards ARE gender neutral… which is why you don’t see female seals or green beenies or marine snipers. You see the concern with this?
Congratulations to the female that earned the Sniper tab.
Unless someone in the know was there, she passed the required levels on her own efforts.
Unless someone in the know was there, she passed the required levels on her own efforts.
I know man, I’m just saying. I absolutely agree about not circumventing standards. That said, none of us were there so we must give credit where credit is due. I wish her the best and congratulate her for stepping up and completing a difficult task that she volunteered to endure.
- Nov 3, 2010
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It is because I am glad to see anyone graduate and add to the dwindling numbers in my former field…even if they are in the Army… eww.
jkOn a serious note….
The 210# was a number I pulled from the post I was replying to. Obviously we weren’t loading our ALICE mountain rucks with 210…despite them feeling like that while we do the assisted partner lift (or turtle-flip-to-push up) off the ground
There are plenty of dudes who can’t hack the day in and day out grind, let alone women. However there are some women out there that can grind through just as well as some men. I’ve seen em. I’ve also watched POG women burn through a stack of former combat arms in PFTs, clear through qual stages while others have NDs and enter their third attempts, and keep their composure under stress. It really opened my eyes and moved me out of my post service ego bubble of “me man. Man best. No girls allowed. Fire good.” mentality.
End of the day, my position is simple. Those who haven’t earned the title of Sniper or Scout Sniper, then they don’t rate to discuss the validity of those who have. As long as the individual wants to be there, is good at their job, is reliable, and can preform to the standard, I don’t give a shit if it identifies as a vegan transgender prior service coastie with a wooden penis and gluten intolerance.
But all of those days are behind me. I’m not in anymore and I no longer run around as a contractor. Now I’m just a soon to be unemployed househusband.
i am not sure on this. but,i believe the israels had women in all the combat roles during the 1948 war and subsequently removed them. i have no real scource for that,so? we know the russians had female snipers,pilots,drivers and also tank crews in ww2. none in those roles lately i think. if the testing/reqirements are the same,applied consistantly,i don't see how that can be passed over. applies to anything-recon,pilots,snipers,police,fire fighters,crane operators,jack hammer operators,whatever. i don't think it will work in ground combat roles but prob can't avoid the experiment. hope my grandson doesn't become a research participant.
Did you finally get your 7 now with your 23 years....there are a shit ton of people on this forum who don't need to go around professing how many years of service they have. I'm sure your a great person to work for
Doc
It's odd topic. People talk about jobs, how long they've had them, new jobs all the time. You're really that sensitive?Did you finally get your 7 now with your 23 years....there are a shit ton of people on this forum who don't need to go around professing how many years of service they have. I'm sure your a great person to work for
Doc
It’s only a odd topic if you’re choosing to comment on something you know nothing about. Even after 23 years of service. Which was what branch exactly? Please don’t tell me Air Force…please don’t tell me you came to lecture us on combat roles by the likes of a career Airman…lol
Reaper might not care anymore about standards…that’s on him. People in the SS association don’t all share that thought linage, but then again…like I’ve said…females didn’t make it in marine infantry. It was tried…it didn’t work.
Grumpy is fucking Australian…so for like the 6th time on snipershide…his opinion on American policies irrelevant…but on that topic there are female sof in Australia. Good for them. That has nothing to do with the standards here.
Israelis are fully integrated to my knowledge. I worked with a spec ops type unit in ‘99 and they had women in all roles, including sniper. They sucked, but they were there.
I’ll add, the men sucked too.
U.S. Air Force Staff Sergeant Alyssa Gomez, 99th Ground Combat Training Squadron, poses with her M24 Sniper Weapon System, May 11, 2012, at the Nevada Test and Training Range. Gomez is the service's ninth female sniper:
Air Force 1st Lieutenant Jennifer Weitekamp looks through the scope of her sniper rifle March 28, 2001, at Camp Lincoln in Springfield, Illinois. Weitekamp completed the Air National Guard’s pilot Counter Sniper School conducted by the National Guard Marksmanship Training Center at Camp Joseph T. Robinson, North Little Rock, Arkansas, on April 14, 2001, becoming the first woman to complete a U.S. military sniper school and the first Air Force female sniper. (U.S. Army photo by Staff Sgt. Robert R. Adams, Public Affairs)
Air Force 1st Lieutenant Jennifer Weitekamp looks through the scope of her sniper rifle March 28, 2001, at Camp Lincoln in Springfield, Illinois. Weitekamp completed the Air National Guard’s pilot Counter Sniper School conducted by the National Guard Marksmanship Training Center at Camp Joseph T. Robinson, North Little Rock, Arkansas, on April 14, 2001, becoming the first woman to complete a U.S. military sniper school and the first Air Force female sniper. (U.S. Army photo by Staff Sgt. Robert R. Adams, Public Affairs)
Pilots may be asked to escape and evade if they are downed. This would be reverse stalking. Physicality is probably a big plus there. Anyone in the service may need to fireman's carry someone to safety at any given time. That simple action disqualifies most females. When you add in injury rates and compare readiness it is a no brainer to disqualify them from most specialties.
Hi,
And that is how you catch a 22LR to the thigh while climbing down off that locomotive, lolol....
Your comment is exactly why Israel has 3 different "Sniper" MOS systems.
CT Rating
"Normal" Rating
AMR Rating
Sincerely,
Theis
This is why I commented about the Air Force up above.U.S. Air Force Staff Sergeant Alyssa Gomez, 99th Ground Combat Training Squadron, poses with her M24 Sniper Weapon System, May 11, 2012, at the Nevada Test and Training Range. Gomez is the service's ninth female sniper:
Air Force 1st Lieutenant Jennifer Weitekamp looks through the scope of her sniper rifle March 28, 2001, at Camp Lincoln in Springfield, Illinois. Weitekamp completed the Air National Guard’s pilot Counter Sniper School conducted by the National Guard Marksmanship Training Center at Camp Joseph T. Robinson, North Little Rock, Arkansas, on April 14, 2001, becoming the first woman to complete a U.S. military sniper school and the first Air Force female sniper. (U.S. Army photo by Staff Sgt. Robert R. Adams, Public Affairs)
These chair force snipers…are not “snipers.” They are pmo/mp snipers. Closer to a DM, and has nothing to do with a mos or infantry qualifier of sniper. The 19 day course these woman went to is not the same course in question.
Again. Not knocking MPs…or females who qualify in that field…but it’s not the same.
Actually fuck MPs. If you ever gave a ticket for going 3 over on base.
Kurdish women been serving up dirt naps with shitty scoped rifles for decades.
Probably more confirmed kills than anyone currently in the US Mil.
Real world > any schoolhouse!
Probably more confirmed kills than anyone currently in the US Mil.
Real world > any schoolhouse!
You guys are arguing in circles.
What Post Malone is trying to tell you kids, is that the further you get up towards people actually doing DA stuff and not fobbiting it up back at the DFAC, the bottleneck becomes not being able to have done something once, or passed some sort of random ass course that is actually only part of a much larger 'set' of courses, the more your capabilities of being able to exceed standards are on a daily basis, and not just 'this one time at sniper camp.
It's like saying youre now an 18B after completing 3 weeks of parachute training, and thats it. Part of it? Yes. Close to being done? Fuck no, you have like another 18 months in the pipeline of having to meet standards constantly along the way; women just can't do it. But they can do the parachute portion probably. But it'll be presented as they passed some SF training phase, which is sort of true, but not really.
There's a reason that any team or ODA I was ever attached to in 3 Afghanistan rotations had a net total of ZERO women if we do not count the random chick that would usually sound like a 14 year old boy over comms that would show up flying a helo on occasion. Hell I can't even remember seeing a single chick at FB Cobra like, ever.
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As I yawn ....
Try this on for size.
Our class started with 85,,,29 graduated
taskandpurpose.com
Try this on for size.
Our class started with 85,,,29 graduated
For the first time ever, a female Marine has graduated the grueling Basic Reconnaissance course
Recon platoon kicks butt.
taskandpurpose.com
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