Does anyone know which is the most accurate rifle barrel length(20", 24", or 26") for a .308 175 gn match bullet at a 1000 yds or less?
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Re: 20", 24", or 26"
Barrel length has nothing to do with accuracy.
Chamber, twist, and rifling are much more important.
Barrel length effects velocity and harmonics. A shorter barrel of the same diameter will be stiffer. All else being equal a stiffer barrel is usually more consistent.
Barrel length has nothing to do with accuracy.
Chamber, twist, and rifling are much more important.
Barrel length effects velocity and harmonics. A shorter barrel of the same diameter will be stiffer. All else being equal a stiffer barrel is usually more consistent.
Re: 20", 24", or 26"
21.75"......seriously.....read the link below. In all reality it's up to you, but 20" will get you there. You'll have better luck if you use the 155gr Scenars or something similar.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=989836
21.75"......seriously.....read the link below. In all reality it's up to you, but 20" will get you there. You'll have better luck if you use the 155gr Scenars or something similar.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=989836
Re: 20", 24", or 26"
jasonK,
Nice write up, TJ Jackson was one of my mentors when I shot bench rest in the 80s. He was my gunsmith as well. Yes, all the bench guns I had were all 21.75. I was too poor back then that I bought their take off barrels that don't quite shoot in the zeros.
TJ and I had spent a couple of all nighters in his garage/shop as he fireformed and turned PPC case necks in his lathe. As the article said case prep is paramount...
jasonK,
Nice write up, TJ Jackson was one of my mentors when I shot bench rest in the 80s. He was my gunsmith as well. Yes, all the bench guns I had were all 21.75. I was too poor back then that I bought their take off barrels that don't quite shoot in the zeros.
TJ and I had spent a couple of all nighters in his garage/shop as he fireformed and turned PPC case necks in his lathe. As the article said case prep is paramount...
Re: 20", 24", or 26"
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 81STFACP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">jasonK,
Nice write up, TJ Jackson was one of my mentors when I shot bench rest in the 80s. He was my gunsmith as well. Yes, all the bench guns I had were all 21.75. I was too poor back then that I bought their take off barrels that don't quite shoot in the zeros.
TJ and I had spent a couple of all nighters in his garage/shop as he fireformed and turned PPC case necks in his lathe. As the article said case prep is paramount...</div></div>
I'll bet their take off barrels were better than most customs these days.....very cool that you got to witness some of that!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 81STFACP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">jasonK,
Nice write up, TJ Jackson was one of my mentors when I shot bench rest in the 80s. He was my gunsmith as well. Yes, all the bench guns I had were all 21.75. I was too poor back then that I bought their take off barrels that don't quite shoot in the zeros.
TJ and I had spent a couple of all nighters in his garage/shop as he fireformed and turned PPC case necks in his lathe. As the article said case prep is paramount...</div></div>
I'll bet their take off barrels were better than most customs these days.....very cool that you got to witness some of that!
Re: 20", 24", or 26"
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 81STFACP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">jasonK,
Nice write up, TJ Jackson was one of my mentors when I shot bench rest in the 80s. He was my gunsmith as well. Yes, all the bench guns I had were all 21.75. I was too poor back then that I bought their take off barrels that don't quite shoot in the zeros.
TJ and I had spent a couple of all nighters in his garage/shop as he fireformed and turned PPC case necks in his lathe. As the article said case prep is paramount...</div></div>
I'll bet their take off barrels were better than most customs these days.....very cool that you got to witness some of that! </div></div>
That was a fascinating read thanks for linking it Jason.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 81STFACP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">jasonK,
Nice write up, TJ Jackson was one of my mentors when I shot bench rest in the 80s. He was my gunsmith as well. Yes, all the bench guns I had were all 21.75. I was too poor back then that I bought their take off barrels that don't quite shoot in the zeros.
TJ and I had spent a couple of all nighters in his garage/shop as he fireformed and turned PPC case necks in his lathe. As the article said case prep is paramount...</div></div>
I'll bet their take off barrels were better than most customs these days.....very cool that you got to witness some of that! </div></div>
That was a fascinating read thanks for linking it Jason.
Re: 20", 24", or 26"
Well I've used 24" and 26" barrels on my .308's and like the guy said the lenght doesn't help accuracy but the fps will increase with lenght. But myself I would go with 24" because that's 2" lighter to carry. The 21.75 is very interesting tho,ima have to check that out some more.
Well I've used 24" and 26" barrels on my .308's and like the guy said the lenght doesn't help accuracy but the fps will increase with lenght. But myself I would go with 24" because that's 2" lighter to carry. The 21.75 is very interesting tho,ima have to check that out some more.
Re: 20", 24", or 26"
I use 22" mostly with great success, but I am also successful with 18" -- so much for numbers.
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I use 22" mostly with great success, but I am also successful with 18" -- so much for numbers.
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Re: 20", 24", or 26"
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I use 22" mostly with great success, but I am also successful with 18" -- so much for numbers.
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Yeah well they got the "moon landing" on video too you believe everything you see on TV?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I use 22" mostly with great success, but I am also successful with 18" -- so much for numbers.
<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/15qj032UJ1I"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/15qj032UJ1I" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object> </div></div>
Yeah well they got the "moon landing" on video too you believe everything you see on TV?
Re: 20", 24", or 26"
I love that he's shooting off his back porch. That is heaven!
Question, doesn't that can raise your FPS higher than what a normal 18"?
I love that he's shooting off his back porch. That is heaven!
Question, doesn't that can raise your FPS higher than what a normal 18"?
Re: 20", 24", or 26"
True, it just might rank up there with Bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster...
Then again, I am willing to put money on the results.
You should see what has been happening with my 16" AR-10, 1 MOA at 800 yards and not just by me.
Others have experienced it as well.
I should note I use factory Cor Bon 175gr or BHA 175gr ammo, so there is no Voodoo...
True, it just might rank up there with Bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster...
Then again, I am willing to put money on the results.
I should note I use factory Cor Bon 175gr or BHA 175gr ammo, so there is no Voodoo...
Re: 20", 24", or 26"
Back porch ?
I guess you can call the tower at Rifle Only my back porch.
The barrel is a tight bore Bartlein, .299 or .298 I forget, but the chamber isn't tight, just the bore. The can adds next to nothing, other than sound and recoil suppression. The FPS are smal at best.
Back porch ?
I guess you can call the tower at Rifle Only my back porch.
The barrel is a tight bore Bartlein, .299 or .298 I forget, but the chamber isn't tight, just the bore. The can adds next to nothing, other than sound and recoil suppression. The FPS are smal at best.
Re: 20", 24", or 26"
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Back porch ?
I guess you can call the tower at Rifle Only my back porch.
The barrel is a tight bore Bartlein, .299 or .298 I forget, but the chamber isn't tight, just the bore. The can adds next to nothing, other than sound and recoil suppression. The FPS are smal at best. </div></div>
Ha ha! it looked like a deck off a house... I figure only lowlight would have a 1000 range at his home! Sounds like Rifles Only is your home away from homes.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Back porch ?
I guess you can call the tower at Rifle Only my back porch.
The barrel is a tight bore Bartlein, .299 or .298 I forget, but the chamber isn't tight, just the bore. The can adds next to nothing, other than sound and recoil suppression. The FPS are smal at best. </div></div>
Ha ha! it looked like a deck off a house... I figure only lowlight would have a 1000 range at his home! Sounds like Rifles Only is your home away from homes.
Re: 20", 24", or 26"
How slow are those rounds travelling? 3s flight time at 1000yds is pretty long, my flight time at 1200yds is only 2.1s and 2750fps.
Not saying its not an accurate rifle, but that is a pretty bigass target too.
How slow are those rounds travelling? 3s flight time at 1000yds is pretty long, my flight time at 1200yds is only 2.1s and 2750fps.
Not saying its not an accurate rifle, but that is a pretty bigass target too.
Re: 20", 24", or 26"
The write up and video are pretty profound arguments for shorter barrels. Great stuff
The write up and video are pretty profound arguments for shorter barrels. Great stuff
Re: 20", 24", or 26"
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How slow are those rounds travelling? 3s flight time at 1000yds is pretty long, my flight time at 1200yds is only 2.1s and 2750fps.
Not saying its not an accurate rifle, but that is a pretty bigass target too. </div></div>
Where did you get 3s? I measured 4.51s between the shot and "ding". That means Tof is 4.51-2.77 where 2.77 is time which sound needs to get from target back to shooter. This gives me ToF is around 1.74s
BTW with the last round he hit that smaller target
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How slow are those rounds travelling? 3s flight time at 1000yds is pretty long, my flight time at 1200yds is only 2.1s and 2750fps.
Not saying its not an accurate rifle, but that is a pretty bigass target too. </div></div>
Where did you get 3s? I measured 4.51s between the shot and "ding". That means Tof is 4.51-2.77 where 2.77 is time which sound needs to get from target back to shooter. This gives me ToF is around 1.74s
BTW with the last round he hit that smaller target
Re: 20", 24", or 26"
Ya, big ass target the main one is 18X30, smaller than the Army's use of a 20X40 as well the smaller one hit is 8.75 X 14.75....
Less than an MOA in width, just about 1.5MOA in Height. My FPS is roughly 2575fps... it's not supposed to be a 1000 yard gun but it is accurate and repeatable.
Ya, big ass target the main one is 18X30, smaller than the Army's use of a 20X40 as well the smaller one hit is 8.75 X 14.75....
Less than an MOA in width, just about 1.5MOA in Height. My FPS is roughly 2575fps... it's not supposed to be a 1000 yard gun but it is accurate and repeatable.
Re: 20", 24", or 26"
Really comes down to personal preference and use. I like 20" for work because it's a lot more handy. If mobility is not an issue and just a stick you are going to shoot prone 24 or 26 are my choice. Little more fps but truelly doesn't make too much of a difference.
Really comes down to personal preference and use. I like 20" for work because it's a lot more handy. If mobility is not an issue and just a stick you are going to shoot prone 24 or 26 are my choice. Little more fps but truelly doesn't make too much of a difference.
Re: 20", 24", or 26"
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ares</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Heh, I thought that the speed will be a few fps under 2600
</div></div>
lol my 20" Remington stock barrel runs m118lr at 2550 avg if that's any consolation.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ares</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Heh, I thought that the speed will be a few fps under 2600
lol my 20" Remington stock barrel runs m118lr at 2550 avg if that's any consolation.
Re: 20", 24", or 26"
With the new Cor Bon load for the 175gr I get 2605fps, Pete upped the FPS on the new stuff in response to the lower numbers people were experiencing, however I think that was shot with the old stuff but I don't remember. It might have been the 2600 stuff.
With the new Cor Bon load for the 175gr I get 2605fps, Pete upped the FPS on the new stuff in response to the lower numbers people were experiencing, however I think that was shot with the old stuff but I don't remember. It might have been the 2600 stuff.
Re: 20", 24", or 26"
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">True, it just might rank up there with Bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster...
Then again, I am willing to put money on the results.
You should see what has been happening with my 16" AR-10, 1 MOA at 800 yards and not just by me.
Others have experienced it as well.
I should note I use factory Cor Bon 175gr or BHA 175gr ammo, so there is no Voodoo... </div></div>
Lowlight,
Here is an AR10 with a tight bore Border Palma barrel. It is ridiculously almost twice as long as your 16 incher - 30 inches. Just a fun project for the senderos. I have to try the 175s see how she likes 'em. She loves the 155 VLDs humming at 3K. Cheers...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">True, it just might rank up there with Bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster...
Then again, I am willing to put money on the results.
I should note I use factory Cor Bon 175gr or BHA 175gr ammo, so there is no Voodoo... </div></div>
Lowlight,
Here is an AR10 with a tight bore Border Palma barrel. It is ridiculously almost twice as long as your 16 incher - 30 inches. Just a fun project for the senderos. I have to try the 175s see how she likes 'em. She loves the 155 VLDs humming at 3K. Cheers...
Re: 20", 24", or 26"
Just silly I say, why anyone would want to lug something that long around is beyond me.
The more i focus on my shooting, the more I find I can use a shorter and shorter rifle to accomplish the same thing.
Just silly I say, why anyone would want to lug something that long around is beyond me.
The more i focus on my shooting, the more I find I can use a shorter and shorter rifle to accomplish the same thing.
Re: 20", 24", or 26"
You should see my new Front porch there, kick ass only half describes it. covered 100 yard platform.
I have the best home away from home.
You should see my new Front porch there, kick ass only half describes it. covered 100 yard platform.
I have the best home away from home.
Re: 20", 24", or 26"
I know of a AR10 with a 18" barrel that many have witnessed bang 1000, shoots most 175's around 2650
I know of a AR10 with a 18" barrel that many have witnessed bang 1000, shoots most 175's around 2650
Re: 20", 24", or 26"
I guess I'm differant, I like a bit more barrel. I get by with my 22 in SM M1A but in bolt guns I like a 26 in barrel (29 for my 300 WM). My main reasoning is, I shoot a lot of 1000 yard matches that require both Iron and Scope Sights. I like the added sight radius. Also I dont shoot supressors so I dont have to worry about the extra weight.
I guess I'm differant, I like a bit more barrel. I get by with my 22 in SM M1A but in bolt guns I like a 26 in barrel (29 for my 300 WM). My main reasoning is, I shoot a lot of 1000 yard matches that require both Iron and Scope Sights. I like the added sight radius. Also I dont shoot supressors so I dont have to worry about the extra weight.
Re: 20", 24", or 26"
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">21.75"......seriously.....read the link below. In all reality it's up to you, but 20" will get you there. You'll have better luck if you use the 155gr Scenars or something similar.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=989836 </div></div>
WOW!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">21.75"......seriously.....read the link below. In all reality it's up to you, but 20" will get you there. You'll have better luck if you use the 155gr Scenars or something similar.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=989836 </div></div>
WOW!
Re: 20", 24", or 26"
I have a 20 inch and a 26 inch on a AI AW and I prefer the 26 inch. The recoil is less and the muzzle blast is less which aids in quicker follow up shots. The recoil impulse is also smoother. It places the muzzle 6 inches further away from your face which does make a difference. It cracks me up how someone will say how stupid a longer barrel is then turn around and secure a huge can on the end of a 20 inch barrel. That set up is at least as awkward as a 26 inch barrel. Oh I forgot that its ok because it looks so cool which makes it different some how. I do recognize the pros of the 20 inch but never read about the pros of the 26 inch. The 20 is obviously the latest and greatest. Oh ya, the longer barrel also gives you more velocity and a 308 needs all the help it can get.
I have a 20 inch and a 26 inch on a AI AW and I prefer the 26 inch. The recoil is less and the muzzle blast is less which aids in quicker follow up shots. The recoil impulse is also smoother. It places the muzzle 6 inches further away from your face which does make a difference. It cracks me up how someone will say how stupid a longer barrel is then turn around and secure a huge can on the end of a 20 inch barrel. That set up is at least as awkward as a 26 inch barrel. Oh I forgot that its ok because it looks so cool which makes it different some how. I do recognize the pros of the 20 inch but never read about the pros of the 26 inch. The 20 is obviously the latest and greatest. Oh ya, the longer barrel also gives you more velocity and a 308 needs all the help it can get.
Re: 20", 24", or 26"
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TDECK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It cracks me up how someone will say how stupid a longer barrel is then turn around and secure a huge can on the end of a 20 inch barrel. That set up is at least as awkward as a 26 inch barrel. Oh I forgot that its ok because it looks so cool which makes it different some how.</div></div>
You do realize that a 18" with a can has a lot less of that evil "muzzle blast" and "rise" that you speak of? Hanging a can on the end of a 26" tube is a little more awkward than the same can on a 18" or 20". I used to subscribe to the "longer is better" crowd. But in the end it's all about how you use it.
A 26" barrel barely fits in the trunk of my squad car. Very soon my rifle will be loosing some length.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TDECK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It cracks me up how someone will say how stupid a longer barrel is then turn around and secure a huge can on the end of a 20 inch barrel. That set up is at least as awkward as a 26 inch barrel. Oh I forgot that its ok because it looks so cool which makes it different some how.</div></div>
You do realize that a 18" with a can has a lot less of that evil "muzzle blast" and "rise" that you speak of? Hanging a can on the end of a 26" tube is a little more awkward than the same can on a 18" or 20". I used to subscribe to the "longer is better" crowd. But in the end it's all about how you use it.
A 26" barrel barely fits in the trunk of my squad car. Very soon my rifle will be loosing some length.
Re: 20", 24", or 26"
I dont use a can so it does not apply to my usage. I have a folding stock and have no issues. My other points are valid. All I am saying is that both lengths have advantages and its not the shorter barrels that only have advantages. If 18 is so good then why not bring it down to 8 inches. The reason is more muzzle blast, less control, and less velocity. I just happen to prefer my 26 inch barrel over my 20 inch barrel for the reasons stated above. I dont even think 26 inches is that long in the first place. My point about the can is that in some ways it defeats the purpose of haveing a short barrel but I dont see people knocking it for the added length, bulk, and weight.
I dont use a can so it does not apply to my usage. I have a folding stock and have no issues. My other points are valid. All I am saying is that both lengths have advantages and its not the shorter barrels that only have advantages. If 18 is so good then why not bring it down to 8 inches. The reason is more muzzle blast, less control, and less velocity. I just happen to prefer my 26 inch barrel over my 20 inch barrel for the reasons stated above. I dont even think 26 inches is that long in the first place. My point about the can is that in some ways it defeats the purpose of haveing a short barrel but I dont see people knocking it for the added length, bulk, and weight.
Re: 20", 24", or 26"
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TDECK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I dont use a can so it does not apply to my usage.</div></div>
But you dismiss a silencer equipped rifle as not have any advantage? Just because YOU don't use one doesn't mean they don't have huge advantages.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a folding stock and have no issues.</div></div>
Then why not go with a 36" barrel?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All I am saying is that both lengths have advantages and its not the shorter barrels that only have advantages.</div></div>
That really depends on who you are, what you do, and what ammo you shoot.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If 18 is so good then why not bring it down to 8 inches. The reason is more muzzle blast, less control, and less velocity.</div></div>
I don't know. Ask the XP-100 shooters.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just happen to prefer my 26 inch barrel over my 20 inch barrel for the reasons stated above. I dont even think 26 inches is that long in the first place.</div></div>
As is your right. However it's foolish for you to attempt to convince the rest of us that short barrels are not as useful as long barrels in a .308.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My point about the can is that in some ways it defeats the purpose of haveing a short barrel but I dont see people knocking it for the added length, bulk, and weight.</div></div>
That is because if you have actually used a silencer equipped weapon for anything other that paper punching on the range you will see the the advantages FAR outweigh the weight and length.
BTW, fill out your profile if you wish to be taken seriously. You will catch flak if you don't.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TDECK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I dont use a can so it does not apply to my usage.</div></div>
But you dismiss a silencer equipped rifle as not have any advantage? Just because YOU don't use one doesn't mean they don't have huge advantages.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a folding stock and have no issues.</div></div>
Then why not go with a 36" barrel?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All I am saying is that both lengths have advantages and its not the shorter barrels that only have advantages.</div></div>
That really depends on who you are, what you do, and what ammo you shoot.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If 18 is so good then why not bring it down to 8 inches. The reason is more muzzle blast, less control, and less velocity.</div></div>
I don't know. Ask the XP-100 shooters.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just happen to prefer my 26 inch barrel over my 20 inch barrel for the reasons stated above. I dont even think 26 inches is that long in the first place.</div></div>
As is your right. However it's foolish for you to attempt to convince the rest of us that short barrels are not as useful as long barrels in a .308.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My point about the can is that in some ways it defeats the purpose of haveing a short barrel but I dont see people knocking it for the added length, bulk, and weight.</div></div>
That is because if you have actually used a silencer equipped weapon for anything other that paper punching on the range you will see the the advantages FAR outweigh the weight and length.
BTW, fill out your profile if you wish to be taken seriously. You will catch flak if you don't.
Re: 20", 24", or 26"
Lone Wolf, your really taking this too personally. I would not have spent $1,000 on a 20 inch barrel if I did not think it had its advantages. I don't know how to make my point any clearer about a can being at least as awkward as a longer barrel. The longer barrel has its advantages just as a can does. I do acknowledge that the can has more advantages. I never dismissed the advantages of a can. I never mentioned a silencer because as you can witness on Lowlight's video that it isnt even close to silencing his rifle. Most on this board will never own a can. I only piped in on the longer barrels because the advantages were being over looked. I guess you would prefer everyone give the same response and ignore the merits of the other options. The funny part about this is that we are just splitting hairs when you get right down to it. I will only work on my profile if you promise to take me seriously. I dont claim to be an operator and if I were I wouldn't make it public knowledge through a profile that shows a I am a sniper god. My experience is that many who claim to be operators are not and I doubt you would disagree with me on this point. Now look who's taking this personally!
Lone Wolf, your really taking this too personally. I would not have spent $1,000 on a 20 inch barrel if I did not think it had its advantages. I don't know how to make my point any clearer about a can being at least as awkward as a longer barrel. The longer barrel has its advantages just as a can does. I do acknowledge that the can has more advantages. I never dismissed the advantages of a can. I never mentioned a silencer because as you can witness on Lowlight's video that it isnt even close to silencing his rifle. Most on this board will never own a can. I only piped in on the longer barrels because the advantages were being over looked. I guess you would prefer everyone give the same response and ignore the merits of the other options. The funny part about this is that we are just splitting hairs when you get right down to it. I will only work on my profile if you promise to take me seriously. I dont claim to be an operator and if I were I wouldn't make it public knowledge through a profile that shows a I am a sniper god. My experience is that many who claim to be operators are not and I doubt you would disagree with me on this point. Now look who's taking this personally!
Re: 20", 24", or 26"
If you think you have more "control" with a longer barrel you have no clue how to shoot... barrel length has nothing to do with control, knowing how to shoot does.
Short barrels don't hop, or blast more or jump, or do any of those mythological things people talk about.
The reason the suppressor doesn't appear to suppress on the video is the microphone is amplified, you hear how loud the wind sounds right... you can absolutely shoot that suppressor without ear protection, something you can't do otherwise without damaging your hearing.
If all you do is walk from your car to the firing line or bench at your local range and you spend a couple of hours a weekend shooting your rifle, then it doesn't matter what length your barrel is, but if you're going to move, and fight with your rifle and you want to be that much more effective than the next guy, you're going to get a suppressor and shoot a shorter barrel rifle.
I also think you under-estimate the number of suppressors in use, but that is another topic.
To prove the point you're not as smart as you think, $1000 on a 20" barrel ? Someone saw you coming and took real advantage of you, I hope you got a kiss. Before you give the AI speech, understand I own 3, and have multiple barrels, the average cost is about $400 for finished spin it yourself barrel.
If you think you have more "control" with a longer barrel you have no clue how to shoot... barrel length has nothing to do with control, knowing how to shoot does.
Short barrels don't hop, or blast more or jump, or do any of those mythological things people talk about.
The reason the suppressor doesn't appear to suppress on the video is the microphone is amplified, you hear how loud the wind sounds right... you can absolutely shoot that suppressor without ear protection, something you can't do otherwise without damaging your hearing.
If all you do is walk from your car to the firing line or bench at your local range and you spend a couple of hours a weekend shooting your rifle, then it doesn't matter what length your barrel is, but if you're going to move, and fight with your rifle and you want to be that much more effective than the next guy, you're going to get a suppressor and shoot a shorter barrel rifle.
I also think you under-estimate the number of suppressors in use, but that is another topic.
To prove the point you're not as smart as you think, $1000 on a 20" barrel ? Someone saw you coming and took real advantage of you, I hope you got a kiss. Before you give the AI speech, understand I own 3, and have multiple barrels, the average cost is about $400 for finished spin it yourself barrel.
Re: 20", 24", or 26"
Supressor----not silencer
Signature reduction device----not silencer
The only wat I know to make a centerfire rifle silent, is to not pull the trigger.
But you are correct about one thing, most on here will more than lickley not own A can, but many probably already own multiple suppressors. They are kinda of like other things in life, once you pop, its hard to stop!!!
Supressor----not silencer
Signature reduction device----not silencer
The only wat I know to make a centerfire rifle silent, is to not pull the trigger.
But you are correct about one thing, most on here will more than lickley not own A can, but many probably already own multiple suppressors. They are kinda of like other things in life, once you pop, its hard to stop!!!
Re: 20", 24", or 26"
TDECK, I have no idea why you think I am taking any of this personally. I don't get wrapped up in internet drama. I will argue points, but in the end I really don't care what you believe. You don't cover my six and you don't work in my AO.
RE: the can in Lowlights video and rifle silencers in general. They don't actually "silence" the rifle. They do however make the difference in me going home and being able to hear my wife whisper sweet nothings in my ear after discharging a .308 inside a structure. If you want movie-quiet you shoot subs but then you have an overgrown pistol.
I have a silencer on my duty M4 and will have one on my bolt gun before the end of the year.
Regarding the barrel length issue when shooting FGMM I really cant discern a difference between a 700P and a LTR other than weight and reduced mobility. Having done close quarters shooting drills with my 26" barrel I can tell you that I would very much prefer a 20" or 18" when moving to a FFP.
ETA: I have a habit of calling them Silencers because that is their proper name according to their inventor and the all-powerful BATFE.
TDECK, I have no idea why you think I am taking any of this personally. I don't get wrapped up in internet drama. I will argue points, but in the end I really don't care what you believe. You don't cover my six and you don't work in my AO.
RE: the can in Lowlights video and rifle silencers in general. They don't actually "silence" the rifle. They do however make the difference in me going home and being able to hear my wife whisper sweet nothings in my ear after discharging a .308 inside a structure. If you want movie-quiet you shoot subs but then you have an overgrown pistol.
I have a silencer on my duty M4 and will have one on my bolt gun before the end of the year.
Regarding the barrel length issue when shooting FGMM I really cant discern a difference between a 700P and a LTR other than weight and reduced mobility. Having done close quarters shooting drills with my 26" barrel I can tell you that I would very much prefer a 20" or 18" when moving to a FFP.
ETA: I have a habit of calling them Silencers because that is their proper name according to their inventor and the all-powerful BATFE.
Re: 20", 24", or 26"
Ok, I surrender. I agree that anything above a 20 inch barrel is a worthless relic. Lets just make sure we get the word out to everyone in the sand box that they would be better off with a squirt gun than with a oh so long 24 or 26 inch barrel. You guys act like these barrels are a mile long. Oh thats right you are totally biased and wont tolerate anyone on this forum that would review the merits of the alternative. A shorter barrel does have more muzzle blast unless you have a can on the end of it. The longer barrel also puts the muzzle blast further away from your face lessening the felt effect of the muzzle blast. Ive known this since a was a little kid when I would shoot with my dad. We would shoot British 303s and I would always ask him to shoot the standard version while he would shoot the shorter barrel jungle version. The standard version was just tamer. Dont worry about what I pay for my equiptment, I have 0 debt. I pay cash for everything. A $1,000 barrel is relative to how much you make and how much debt you have. If it helps you I was rounding up and including shipping, tax, and insurance. I didnt realize I was going to be called out on the amount or I would have been more accurate. Of course your so smart that you entirely missed the point of my illustration. It was a pro short barrel endorsement. Are you trying to say that your can will suppress the sound of a standard velocity round? That is a can and it has a hard time suppressing the sound and your own video proves it. What did you pay for that can? Do you think maybe it is defective? One last thing, most legendary snipers if not all through out history have used longer barrels but what do they know, they were not the know it all gear god that you profess to be. Get a life out side of firearms and stop stroking your 22 incher. By the way I love your website which means you will probably ban me. Oh well, I can still view it.
Ok, I surrender. I agree that anything above a 20 inch barrel is a worthless relic. Lets just make sure we get the word out to everyone in the sand box that they would be better off with a squirt gun than with a oh so long 24 or 26 inch barrel. You guys act like these barrels are a mile long. Oh thats right you are totally biased and wont tolerate anyone on this forum that would review the merits of the alternative. A shorter barrel does have more muzzle blast unless you have a can on the end of it. The longer barrel also puts the muzzle blast further away from your face lessening the felt effect of the muzzle blast. Ive known this since a was a little kid when I would shoot with my dad. We would shoot British 303s and I would always ask him to shoot the standard version while he would shoot the shorter barrel jungle version. The standard version was just tamer. Dont worry about what I pay for my equiptment, I have 0 debt. I pay cash for everything. A $1,000 barrel is relative to how much you make and how much debt you have. If it helps you I was rounding up and including shipping, tax, and insurance. I didnt realize I was going to be called out on the amount or I would have been more accurate. Of course your so smart that you entirely missed the point of my illustration. It was a pro short barrel endorsement. Are you trying to say that your can will suppress the sound of a standard velocity round? That is a can and it has a hard time suppressing the sound and your own video proves it. What did you pay for that can? Do you think maybe it is defective? One last thing, most legendary snipers if not all through out history have used longer barrels but what do they know, they were not the know it all gear god that you profess to be. Get a life out side of firearms and stop stroking your 22 incher. By the way I love your website which means you will probably ban me. Oh well, I can still view it.
Re: 20", 24", or 26"
After much reading I had my 700P barrel trimmed to 22"oal when at the smith for mods. I'll post a couple pics later.
After much reading I had my 700P barrel trimmed to 22"oal when at the smith for mods. I'll post a couple pics later.
Re: 20", 24", or 26"
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TDECK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are you trying to say that your can will suppress the sound of a standard velocity round? That is a can and it has a hard time suppressing the sound and your own video proves it. What did you pay for that can? Do you think maybe it is defective? One last thing, most legendary snipers if not all through out history have used longer barrels but what do they know, they were not the know it all gear god that you profess to be.</div></div>
See, now this is straying outside of your lane.
Yes, silencers do reduce the report of standard velocity ammo. However, it does not alleviate the supersonic "crack". Without a decible meter or you being present at the firing how would you have any idea what the attenuation was?
All "legendary" snipers that I am aware of used either what was issued to them or what they could "scrounge" at the time. Few "legendary" snipers used a .308 with the exception of Chuck Mawhinney who used a M40 (with a 24" barrel).
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TDECK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are you trying to say that your can will suppress the sound of a standard velocity round? That is a can and it has a hard time suppressing the sound and your own video proves it. What did you pay for that can? Do you think maybe it is defective? One last thing, most legendary snipers if not all through out history have used longer barrels but what do they know, they were not the know it all gear god that you profess to be.</div></div>
See, now this is straying outside of your lane.
Yes, silencers do reduce the report of standard velocity ammo. However, it does not alleviate the supersonic "crack". Without a decible meter or you being present at the firing how would you have any idea what the attenuation was?
All "legendary" snipers that I am aware of used either what was issued to them or what they could "scrounge" at the time. Few "legendary" snipers used a .308 with the exception of Chuck Mawhinney who used a M40 (with a 24" barrel).
Re: 20", 24", or 26"
I suppose ignorance is bliss... and your ignorance must keep you in constant nirvana. I guess the USMC forgot to get the message on the 18" barrels they are using. They specifically asked for shorter barrels so they can move around the urban environment easier... but what do they know.
So, if an 20" has more blast, where does the 26" barrel hide the rest of its blast ? Does the extra 6" absorb it or does the muzzle blast fairy remove it before it reaches the end of the barrel.
I personally shoot from the back of the rifle and the muzzle blast doesn't effect me, 16" 308, 18", 20" 22, I don't feel it regardless of the length, and because I know how to shoot, I don't feel any difference in recoil, it's all the same. A 308 is a 308.
what part of the amplified mic don't you understand, its amplifying the sound, so it sounds louder than it actually is, maybe you should watch one of the videos without the suppressor so you can hear the difference.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7SxqGR5rsQ
Thanks for giving us a report on your current capital situation, now Monday go out and order up about 60 more bolt guns in various configurations and you'll start to approach me in the tactical rifle department, until then, I suggest you read more and spout off less, you're out of your league on the subject. Buying a cool rifle and knowing how to use it are two different things.
I suppose ignorance is bliss... and your ignorance must keep you in constant nirvana. I guess the USMC forgot to get the message on the 18" barrels they are using. They specifically asked for shorter barrels so they can move around the urban environment easier... but what do they know.
So, if an 20" has more blast, where does the 26" barrel hide the rest of its blast ? Does the extra 6" absorb it or does the muzzle blast fairy remove it before it reaches the end of the barrel.
I personally shoot from the back of the rifle and the muzzle blast doesn't effect me, 16" 308, 18", 20" 22, I don't feel it regardless of the length, and because I know how to shoot, I don't feel any difference in recoil, it's all the same. A 308 is a 308.
what part of the amplified mic don't you understand, its amplifying the sound, so it sounds louder than it actually is, maybe you should watch one of the videos without the suppressor so you can hear the difference.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7SxqGR5rsQ
Thanks for giving us a report on your current capital situation, now Monday go out and order up about 60 more bolt guns in various configurations and you'll start to approach me in the tactical rifle department, until then, I suggest you read more and spout off less, you're out of your league on the subject. Buying a cool rifle and knowing how to use it are two different things.
Re: 20", 24", or 26"
Its funny how you guys cant even work up the courage to admit that your silencers, cans, and supressors take away from your short barrels handling advantages. You are correct that I lack expertise in the area of silenced weapons. I will take it that you and Lowlight are experts in this field and leave it at that. My original point was directed to the main topic of barrel length. I reasonably stated that they both have advantages and disadvantages. You and Lowlight recognize no advantages of a 24 or 26 inch barrel which makes continuing this conversation pointless. If anything I should be biased and in denial seeing that I got totally screwed on my 20 inch barrel purchase. The muzzle blast is perceived to be less because it is six inches further away from your face. Can you finally comprehend this? Lowlight, why dont you chop one of your barrels down to 5 inches and video how the muzzle blast doesnt effect your shooting and how a 308 is a 308 is a 308. Oh ya, no can. Ill be waiting. You are full of it. Farewell Kool Aid drinkers.
Its funny how you guys cant even work up the courage to admit that your silencers, cans, and supressors take away from your short barrels handling advantages. You are correct that I lack expertise in the area of silenced weapons. I will take it that you and Lowlight are experts in this field and leave it at that. My original point was directed to the main topic of barrel length. I reasonably stated that they both have advantages and disadvantages. You and Lowlight recognize no advantages of a 24 or 26 inch barrel which makes continuing this conversation pointless. If anything I should be biased and in denial seeing that I got totally screwed on my 20 inch barrel purchase. The muzzle blast is perceived to be less because it is six inches further away from your face. Can you finally comprehend this? Lowlight, why dont you chop one of your barrels down to 5 inches and video how the muzzle blast doesnt effect your shooting and how a 308 is a 308 is a 308. Oh ya, no can. Ill be waiting. You are full of it. Farewell Kool Aid drinkers.
Re: 20", 24", or 26"
Any perceived advantage beyond velocity, which is absolutely an advantage is lost in modern barrels. A good custom barrel at 20" will be every bit as good as a stock factory barrel measuring 26". The advantages in modern bullets, powders and barrels trump what was experienced in the days of old. This is not 1968, we're progressed since that time.
Competition shooter who have to gain an edge on the field will opt for the small velocity gains because they don't have to carry the rifle beyond the firing line. However shorter tactical rifles have a distinct advantage in the mobility department because they take advantage of modern solutions. I can use a Lapua 170gr HPS which is common for me to use and I get a BC of .525 as well as a MV well over 2700fps in fact closer to 2800fps with an 18" barrel, so I lose nothing over someone shooting a 168gr bullet out of a 26" barrel. I can put numbers on the board to rival anything out there including handloads.
I have many 24" in barreled rifles, but I have no 26" in 308 as it is complete waste of time in a tactical rifle. It was done out of habit, not because of any advantage over 24". In other calibers I use 26" to take advantage of the powder burn, but in a 308... sorry that stuff is burnt way before then.
In reference to my suppressor, and length, on an 18" barrel the suppressor ads 7", I'm still under 26" and I can take it off to move and simply pop it on when in position. It gives me twice as many advantages over a longer barrel.
The conversation is pointless only because with your limited knowledge and experience you have no clue of what you speak... thus making you side pointless. 24" is the maximum length anyone should ever consider for a 308, I base that on my experience of 10's of thousands of rounds downrange with the 308 platform.
Any perceived advantage beyond velocity, which is absolutely an advantage is lost in modern barrels. A good custom barrel at 20" will be every bit as good as a stock factory barrel measuring 26". The advantages in modern bullets, powders and barrels trump what was experienced in the days of old. This is not 1968, we're progressed since that time.
Competition shooter who have to gain an edge on the field will opt for the small velocity gains because they don't have to carry the rifle beyond the firing line. However shorter tactical rifles have a distinct advantage in the mobility department because they take advantage of modern solutions. I can use a Lapua 170gr HPS which is common for me to use and I get a BC of .525 as well as a MV well over 2700fps in fact closer to 2800fps with an 18" barrel, so I lose nothing over someone shooting a 168gr bullet out of a 26" barrel. I can put numbers on the board to rival anything out there including handloads.
I have many 24" in barreled rifles, but I have no 26" in 308 as it is complete waste of time in a tactical rifle. It was done out of habit, not because of any advantage over 24". In other calibers I use 26" to take advantage of the powder burn, but in a 308... sorry that stuff is burnt way before then.
In reference to my suppressor, and length, on an 18" barrel the suppressor ads 7", I'm still under 26" and I can take it off to move and simply pop it on when in position. It gives me twice as many advantages over a longer barrel.
The conversation is pointless only because with your limited knowledge and experience you have no clue of what you speak... thus making you side pointless. 24" is the maximum length anyone should ever consider for a 308, I base that on my experience of 10's of thousands of rounds downrange with the 308 platform.
Re: 20", 24", or 26"
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TDECK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok, I surrender. </div></div>
You should have just quit there....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TDECK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok, I surrender. </div></div>
You should have just quit there....
Re: 20", 24", or 26"
What a dumb ass, chop it to 5"... how about 16" and the blast has no effect on the shooting, look the muzzle barely moves.
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What a dumb ass, chop it to 5"... how about 16" and the blast has no effect on the shooting, look the muzzle barely moves.
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Re: 20", 24", or 26"
Oh, PS, we shoot them at 12.5" as well...
In mid shot, note the blast, not affecting the shooter:
Oh, PS, we shoot them at 12.5" as well...
In mid shot, note the blast, not affecting the shooter:
