2012 small scale ammo smithing, worth it?

[Break Bad]

I am about to jump into a progressive setup. The obvious reason is after about x thousand rounds the equipment will pay for itself, then I start saving on expenses. But I also wonder if anyone turns a small profit to help pay for their habits by reloading for friends/acquaintances/family etc..

- With current consumable costs rising, costs of getting licensed, paying FET (if applicable).... is it worth it?
- Can you always acquire the consumables your customers want in the timeframe they expect it? Or do you just manufacture whatever is available or on sale?
- Can you compete with costs of factory ammo?
- Reasons for only selling certain calibers and avoiding others?
- Anyone do match grade 6-8mm calibers?

 

[former naval person]

Re: 2012 small scale ammo smithing, worth it?

Don't forget liability insurance. One injury or death whether your fault or not will tie your assets up for years as the case wends its way through the court system. I say, "Don't do it". But that is JMHO.

 

[Break Bad]

Re: 2012 small scale ammo smithing, worth it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: former naval person</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't forget liability insurance. One injury or death whether your fault or not will tie your assets up for years as the case wends its way through the court system. I say, "Don't do it". But that is JMHO.</div></div>

I was hoping to just explore the business aspects of this and avoid the legalities..... but you're likely right, considering my goal for profit is so small, and the risk can be substantial. Not sure what protection I would have even if I incorporate or LLC, and/or have customers sign disclaimer/waiver. I was going to read up on this part of the business only if the 'time is worth the effort' adds up.

If I could crank out a few thousand rounds of whatever and walk away with a couple hundred bucks a month i'd be happy to upgrade to a Dillon 650 setup and spend the extra time.

Thanks for response

 

[Bayou1535]

Re: 2012 small scale ammo smithing, worth it?

My expierence so far is that I never recoup any money because I'm always buying something else. But I do it for personal use and hobby.

 

[Helter]

Re: 2012 small scale ammo smithing, worth it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BreakBad</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: former naval person</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't forget liability insurance. One injury or death whether your fault or not will tie your assets up for years as the case wends its way through the court system. I say, "Don't do it". But that is JMHO.</div></div>

I was hoping to just explore the business aspects of this and avoid the legalities..... but you're likely right, considering my goal for profit is so small, and the risk can be substantial. Not sure what protection I would have even if I incorporate or LLC, and/or have customers sign disclaimer/waiver. I was going to read up on this part of the business only if the 'time is worth the effort' adds up.

If I could crank out a few thousand rounds of whatever and walk away with a couple hundred bucks a month i'd be happy to upgrade to a Dillon 650 setup and spend the extra time.

Thanks for response </div></div>

IANAL, I am kinda an insurance guy.
Insurance is part of the business aspect of it. You really can't safely do business without insurance.
A waiver would be worthless in this case. Generally speaking, people can't actually waive their right to claim damages for negligence.
Incorporating would provide you with protection, but there's a concept called the "corporate veil", which is the separation between yourself and the corporation. If there is not enough separation between your personal activities/finances and the company, you could be held personally liable for the products produced by the company. In this instance, that could mean that you would have to operate reloading solely as a business. The equipment would have to be owned by the llc/corp, and couldn't be used for personal use. You'd have to buy your own ammo from the llc/corp to use it. You'd need to have the reloading station somewhere other than your house, or you'd have to lease/rent your reloading room to the llc/corp.
You'd definitely want to talk to a lawyer about this.

There are enough people doing this, that it shouldn't be too hard to find one willing to talk to you on the phone for 30 minutes or so about how they have their operation structured, and how much their insurance costs.

 

[ChrisGarrett]

Re: 2012 small scale ammo smithing, worth it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BreakBad</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: former naval person</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't forget liability insurance. One injury or death whether your fault or not will tie your assets up for years as the case wends its way through the court system. I say, "Don't do it". But that is JMHO.</div></div>

I was hoping to just explore the business aspects of this and avoid the legalities..... but you're likely right, considering my goal for profit is so small, and the risk can be substantial. Not sure what protection I would have even if I incorporate or LLC, and/or have customers sign disclaimer/waiver. I was going to read up on this part of the business only if the 'time is worth the effort' adds up.

If I could crank out a few thousand rounds of whatever and walk away with a couple hundred bucks a month i'd be happy to upgrade to a Dillon 650 setup and spend the extra time.

Thanks for response </div></div>

As Helter explains above, you're going to have a lot to deal with regarding licensing, zoning, storage/facility rental and insurance. ChadTRG does custom ammo and posts on this Reloading forum, so shoot him a PM, but looking at this in a 'cost/benefit' context, lets see...

Match ammo relies on perception, as well as performance. JoeBlowAmmo will not have the following that FGMM, BHA, or even Hornady, has today, so let's say that you can basically sell to friends only, in the beginning. You don't have distribution channels right now, so maybe throw in the local gun shows, where you'll need to buy a table.

What is your spare time worth, per hour?

You going to concentrate on pistol, rifle, or both?

Much like Black Hills Ammo, are you going to use 1x brass, or are you going to use new brass?

How many boxes of 50 rounds (pistol,) or 20 rounds (rifle) do you think you can sell, week in and week out? 50 boxes of 20rds is 1000 rounds, or a typical case. Pistol, it's usually 20 50ct boxes.

How much can these friends buy this ammo for at WallyWorld, Big5, Dicks, or AIM Surplus and/or AmmoMan? You need to check and see what the street prices are. Remember people aren't as cluesless when it comes to 'internet shopping' now, as they were just 5 years ago.

What kind of initial bulk order are you going to place, to save on price and what cartridges are you going to concentrate on initially...9mm, .40 S/W, 45ACP, 223 Rem, 308 Win, 30'06?

Price out your components, include shipping (to you) in your cost, time yourself reloading this stuff up, add your time up and multiply by your hourly rate and you'll get an idea of whether small batch reloading can be profitable.

Depending on whether you're loading up 1x brass, or new, I'm going to say that making $2-$8 per box (less for pistol) might be doable, so it'll come down to volumne and how many boxes you can sell to your buddies.

Chris

 

[BuzzBoss915]

Re: 2012 small scale ammo smithing, worth it?

I WOULD NOT BE INTERESTED IN TURNING A HOBBY INTO THE DRUDGERY, (oops!) cap lock/of a business, which you would need a lot of business and if you beat the bushes, probably a lot more than a single machine or you would go a few years before you turned a profit.

And, don't forget, in people's minds, especially those people that would trust someone else to handload for them, they do not equate "reloads" with top quality and expect to get bargain basement prices.

Maybe Black Hills started out this way, but the success stories are rare. Hate to bust your bubble but with zero experience, etc. I wouldn't expect too much. BB

 

[50APIT]

Re: 2012 small scale ammo smithing, worth it?

I have looked into it for similar reasons that you listed, but it just didn't make sense without going very large scale in any of the common calibers with such a small profit margin. You would have a higher margin in some of the less common ones like 6.5, 338lm, 260, ect but then you have to worry about volume and supply issues. The insurance costs alone were about 2K a year for liability not to mention the costs needed to establish/maintain your llc, time needed to advertise, tax paperwork, ect...

Really, there is no way I can see this working as just a hobby using only your free time.