Ok guys and gals I have some questions. I have a 22 arc setup and I just shot some of my factory 62gr eld-vt match ammo. The gun likes it but I’m a Reloader so I have the 22arc hornady dies and well i resized the case and sit the shoulder back 4 thou just to b safe but I tried to make a dummy round and the bullet it seating way to easy and pulling way to easy. I can even seat the bullet wit a little pressure on my puller die just trying to see if anyone eles has done any reloading yet and I thought this hornady die would have a crimp since this cartridge was made to run in a AR-15 after all any help would b greatly appreciated plz excess my grammar and punctuation thanks again
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Measurement experiment.
Caliper will be fine as you will be looking at RELATIVE not ABSOLUTE dimensions all real close to each other.
Bullet OD as measured with your Caliper.
As Fired NECK O.D, check bullet fit (don't drop into case
).
Sized, FL NECK OD, but without mandrel installed (what your FL Die is doing to your neck).
Test bullet fit but don't seat.
NECK OD FL Die WITH mandrel (how much expansion you are getting)
Seated bullet NECK OD, don't try for crimp (how much "NECK tension you have).
Extra credit if you show your work
Caliper will be fine as you will be looking at RELATIVE not ABSOLUTE dimensions all real close to each other.
Bullet OD as measured with your Caliper.
As Fired NECK O.D, check bullet fit (don't drop into case
).Sized, FL NECK OD, but without mandrel installed (what your FL Die is doing to your neck).
Test bullet fit but don't seat.
NECK OD FL Die WITH mandrel (how much expansion you are getting)
Seated bullet NECK OD, don't try for crimp (how much "NECK tension you have).
Extra credit if you show your work
I haven't taken the time to get any measurements yet, but I have noticed that there seems to be very little neck tension with once fired hornady 22arc brass. There is a substantial difference in neck tension between 22arc brass and once fired 6.5 grendel brass.
I will say that I did get a couple phenomenal sd's and groups with the 22arc brass. 100yd 4 shot groups of less than 1/2" and SD less than 6.
I'll check those same loads tomorrow with the 6.5 grendel brass.
My first thought is that the expander ball is a little oversized? Or the sizing die is slightly undersized, but something doesn't seem right.
I have 5 or 6 hornady die sets and never saw this before.
The die is under sized. I tried it last night without the expander decaping rod and it didn’t change it at all. There is only 1 thou diffrance in a sized neck and a loaded neck. So that tells me that hornady has messed up on these dies and they r are not sizing the necks enough. I am no expert by no means just needing some help because I fell if I load these at all an try to shoot them the bullet is gonna slam into the lands once the bolt closes thanks again guys
It's probably more likely going to set the bullet back into the case on the feed ramps. What is the thickness of the necks on the Grendel vs ARC brass?
No they only make hornady dies for this right now and I have a return label to send the sizing die back to them I kinda thought they would send me a new die and let me just send this one back but I guess not so I ordered a 6.5 Grendel type s bushing die now cause I don’t have time for them to diagnose wats wrong with this die and then send a new one
I recommend (for anyone) that when starting with a new caliber, new dies, new brass source, you perform the measurement experiment (exercise) I posted above (post #2).
It will give you all kinds of neck data.
Neck thickness, stress on your necks caused by the die, differences in brass neck thickness.
Do it, save it, update when you change things.
Even a cheapo caliper, if repeatable, will give relative measurements that will be useful pre-diagnosing issues before going to the range.
It will give you all kinds of neck data.
Neck thickness, stress on your necks caused by the die, differences in brass neck thickness.
Do it, save it, update when you change things.
Even a cheapo caliper, if repeatable, will give relative measurements that will be useful pre-diagnosing issues before going to the range.
Looks like thin neck walls on the brass. Grendel brass run through the exact same Hornady die provides adequate tension. Sample size of two or three, so not necessarily statistically significant yet, but enough to check me up on getting a barrel until it’s worked out or another brass supplier comes to the table.
I haven’t done much necking up/down, not sure I want to mess with it
I just measured fired brass to compare to new. Headspace on unfired was 1.213. Fired was 1.223. With the Hornady die I pushed the shoulder back to 1.214. This brought the neck size down to .222 giving 2 thou tension. Did not run expander ball as it mic’ed out at .223. This would give only 1 thou, maybe 1.5 with spring back. Personally I don’t like to run a gasser less than 3 thou tension. I see no way of getting there with out a bushing die. Thoughts ?
I had to buy a 6.5 Redding bushing die to get it to work and I sent the die back to hornady because it wouldn give me enough neck tension an they said nothing was wrong with it that it was perfect to spec so I got a bushing die
Sorry silly question. Chamber tells me what I need. So only need to push back 2 thou.
And you better check a loaded round and see wat the neck measures cause mine measures .248 so a .247 bushing wouldn work I went with a .245-.243 and tried all them then use a mandrel to get the exact tension I want
You are correct using the hornady brass. I got my hands on some neck down 6.5 Starline that has neck wall thickness of 15 thou. This is my math, let me know if I screwed up. .224 + .030 = .254. .254 - .247 = .007. Then mandrel open another 3-4 thou. With Hornady brass .224 + .022 = .246. .246 - .007 = .239 bushing. Am I on the right track. Would need 2 different bushings for the 2 different types of brass. Anything special about using the 6.5 Grendel die on the 22 ARC brass? Thanks.
I would imagine you'll get casehead separation eventually pushing the shoulder back 9 thou everytime you size
I'm having the exact same issue...freaking bullets lodged in chamber and spilling powder everywhere. Called Hornady...they said no one else has reported this issue! Unreal. Said to ship them back to " check" the die. I read here a 6.5 Grendel die set will work, with a bushing...true?
I am using a 6.5 Grendel bushing(.250) die to neck down 6.5 Grendel brass to 22 Arc. All the brass once formed is about ten thou short of my fired brass headspace out of my Craddock Precision RTR 22 ARC barrel. I am using a Jp bolt with that barrel. That barrel was not headspaced with that bolt however. I shot some of my old 22 Grendel ammo in this new barrel and it is completely interchangeable besides headspace. When forming the 6.5 Grendel brass, I am using three dies to neck it down. If I just try to run a straight 6.5 neck into a 250 bushing it will crush the case. I am using a non-bushing 6.5 Grendel. Ty. Die without the decapping stem or plug. That necks it down about 10th out. Then I run it into a 6BR die, then the bushing die. I have found that finishing it off in the 22 ARC Hornady die seems to square off the shoulders, shoulder angle, and base of the neck better. When it comes out of the 6.5 grendel bushing die for some reason the shoulder angle looks a little off. Loaded neck on Hornady 6.5 Grendel converted brass is .252. I'm doing all the conversion on a 650XL so the order of dies is 6.5 Grendel, 6br, Hornady Arc without the stem, expander mandrel, and then 6.5 Grendel bushing die with 250 bushing. Then I inside chamfer and anneal.
Thanks for reply...can i use a 6.5 Grendel die with 22 arc brass easily and successfully? What's the deal with Hornady not acknowledging their die issue? I'm sending mine back tomorrow...I'll let ya'll know what they say.
I already sent mine back and they sent it back and told me everything was perfect that it was in spec so I got a Redding type s 6.5 Grendel die a use a .250 bushing an it works perfect
Yes. Buy a Redding " type s" bushing die and buy a .250" bushing for Hornady Grendel brass or a .248 for Hornady ARC brass. Save your Hornady ARC die and use it as a body die
Just to be clear, every reference I've made to "ARC" is 22 ARC. Hopefully no one here is slipping 6 ARC into the conversation
No stuck bullets in lands if you have to extract a live round? I'm curious what others use for neck tension in an AR....
No. This has been discussed on this forum many times. As far as I know, it's a bit of a myth that you need to crimp or use heavy neck tension. Just got finished at the range. This is what 2 thou neck tension looks like.
Well the issue is with the 22 Arc in my AR, with the Hornady dies, there's not enough neck tension and all kinds of problems have been happening. It's anywhere from 1 to 2000s neck tension I thought.. but it's been a real pain in the ass.
I am using Hornady 6.5 Grendel brass neck down and I'm using a mandrel in a 250 bushing to give it an honest 2 thou neck tension.
I generally do not play around with neck tension all that much. But if it's not working for you then like any other aspect of load development, load a ladder of progressively tighter neck tension and see how it shoots. Unfortunately, I don't think you have a lot of different options. It's probably either a 250 or 248 bushing. I suppose you could buy a steel mandrel and turn it using some sandpaper But that would be a pretty extreme length to go.
Might be easier to just buy a couple hundred pieces of 6'5 Grendel brass from Mid-South for $0.50 a piece and use that stuff with a 250 bushing
I've found the same thing. I can just about seat the projo by hand. I'll call Hornady on Monday to see what they say...
Is anyone from Hornady on this forum, someone is right?
Very helpful thread. I have been collecting 22 ARC components for a while anticipating a factory bolt gun to become available at some point. I received the last missing item this weekend, new Starline 6.5 Grendel brass.
I necked down a handful of cases with the Hornady dies and had very similar results to many of the posts above. The case neck thickness was .0145, sized without the mandrel the neck OD was .248, with the mandrel .250, and loaded it was .253. So, 3 thou of tension.
I will be happy with that assuming it will first of all load in the chamber, and secondly expand enough upon firing to not have any tension remaining. It did, however, drop effortlessly into a Hornady case gauge. Worst case, I will turn the necks down .0005-.001. Now I am sitting on my hands waiting for a bolt gun to make it to market. The coyotes will just have to wait.......not really, I have plenty of other pills for them to swallow.
I necked down a handful of cases with the Hornady dies and had very similar results to many of the posts above. The case neck thickness was .0145, sized without the mandrel the neck OD was .248, with the mandrel .250, and loaded it was .253. So, 3 thou of tension.
I will be happy with that assuming it will first of all load in the chamber, and secondly expand enough upon firing to not have any tension remaining. It did, however, drop effortlessly into a Hornady case gauge. Worst case, I will turn the necks down .0005-.001. Now I am sitting on my hands waiting for a bolt gun to make it to market. The coyotes will just have to wait.......not really, I have plenty of other pills for them to swallow.
