I loaded 31.3 and had them seated out to 2.31 something. i have a 26" 1:7 219 bore and got 2903 fps. my confirmation load for 88 elds with the same charge was 2908 fps with multiple firings brass and 2915 fps with freshly converted brass.
.22 br
- Thread starter Dai Bando
- Start date
Hey guys so when designing a reamer how much longer do you recommend the chamber length be then the brass case itself? I want to limit carbon ring if I can is .005 to short it seems like most are designed around .015 or .020. Also what would you say is optimal freebore for the Berger 85.5? Thanks
I have a 0.130" freebore and I'd have been happy with a 0.150" or even a 0.180". The 85.5's have plenty of room, but when I ran the 88 ELDM I was closer to the neck/shoulder junction than I wanted to be. Wasn't a problem, per se, but if I had another reamer made it'd probably be like a 0.160".
As far as the carbon ring, I just trimmed my Lapua brass after the fifth firing. I didn't need to before that. Your question is reasonable, but I just clean the carbon ring every time I clean the barrel, every ~250-300 rounds; never had an issue with it, and it was definitely longer than it needed to be. You could bring it in by 0.010" off of the typical length and be fine, or just leave it and be fine too.
As far as the carbon ring, I just trimmed my Lapua brass after the fifth firing. I didn't need to before that. Your question is reasonable, but I just clean the carbon ring every time I clean the barrel, every ~250-300 rounds; never had an issue with it, and it was definitely longer than it needed to be. You could bring it in by 0.010" off of the typical length and be fine, or just leave it and be fine too.
Thanks ya I actually ordered a .100 fb because I like shooting 80s and 80.5s also I have a .160 now and for an 80 vld to get to jam its barely in the case. I also shortened my chamber up a little bit so I can trim brass a little shorter just because I have the henderson so I'd rather use it then chamfer and deburr
Long Range Report on my 22BR.
I have been shooting F-Open with a 6x47L for the last 3 years. I am now 75 and shooting 70+ rounds in a day just wore me out. So I needed to go down in recoil. I considered the 22BR as my answer. My gun is a Remington 700 in an Eliseo stock. The barrel is 1:7 30" McGowen. I have loads for Berger 85.5, Hornandy 88 and Hornady ATIP. After running the numbers the 85.5 will be the 600 load, the 90 Atip will be the 1000 load and the 88 will be my steel load.
Last Wednesday I got to go with a friend to a steel range that goes out to 1310 yards. So here was my chance to test this thing out. The 88 ELDM load is 31.4 RL16 at a COAL of 2.270 for a muzzle velocity of 3034 fps. I use Shooter as my app for ballistics data. I started at 100, went to 300, then 400 then 500, then 700 and then 1000. I used shooter's come-ups and hit the torso plates first shot. the 10 inch plates till 700 first shot. the wind came up so after seeing the splash I corrected and connected. I then went to a 1000 and was still holding well and connected on the second shot. I then went to the 1310 yard plate. It is 4x4' Shooter said I needed 39.6 MOA come up. I dialed 29.6 and then held in my reticle 10 more MOA. Connected the 4x4 plate first shot. Purposely shot in the dirt to see what my elevation looked like and it was good so I went after a 12 inch plate. Took 4 shots to connect. My velocity was down to 1207 so I was deep in the transsonic range. yet the bullet wasn't go wild. I was missing due to wind and once I got that figured out it was good.
To end the day, I wanted to concentrate on 1000 yards. I really worked to get my come up corrected and then went for the 10 inch plate. Again after a windage miss I corrected and my last 2 shots were hits on a 10 inch plate. In F-class 1000 yards that would have been 10's.
In summary, I don't think that the 22BR is going to be any deficit at 1000 over the 6x47L. In fact I have shot the 6x47 at this exact range twice and they bot shot the same. In the 6x47 my steel bullet was the Barnes 112 MB. This little bullet holds its own. Gives good velocity and a medium barrel life. I am happy and next month when I shot and f-class match I know it will perform if I do.
So when the dust settled at 1000 and I had corrected the elevation, I saw that I had 23.75 MOA on the scope. Shooter said I needed 24.0. To me that is REALLY good correlation.
David
I have been shooting F-Open with a 6x47L for the last 3 years. I am now 75 and shooting 70+ rounds in a day just wore me out. So I needed to go down in recoil. I considered the 22BR as my answer. My gun is a Remington 700 in an Eliseo stock. The barrel is 1:7 30" McGowen. I have loads for Berger 85.5, Hornandy 88 and Hornady ATIP. After running the numbers the 85.5 will be the 600 load, the 90 Atip will be the 1000 load and the 88 will be my steel load.
Last Wednesday I got to go with a friend to a steel range that goes out to 1310 yards. So here was my chance to test this thing out. The 88 ELDM load is 31.4 RL16 at a COAL of 2.270 for a muzzle velocity of 3034 fps. I use Shooter as my app for ballistics data. I started at 100, went to 300, then 400 then 500, then 700 and then 1000. I used shooter's come-ups and hit the torso plates first shot. the 10 inch plates till 700 first shot. the wind came up so after seeing the splash I corrected and connected. I then went to a 1000 and was still holding well and connected on the second shot. I then went to the 1310 yard plate. It is 4x4' Shooter said I needed 39.6 MOA come up. I dialed 29.6 and then held in my reticle 10 more MOA. Connected the 4x4 plate first shot. Purposely shot in the dirt to see what my elevation looked like and it was good so I went after a 12 inch plate. Took 4 shots to connect. My velocity was down to 1207 so I was deep in the transsonic range. yet the bullet wasn't go wild. I was missing due to wind and once I got that figured out it was good.
To end the day, I wanted to concentrate on 1000 yards. I really worked to get my come up corrected and then went for the 10 inch plate. Again after a windage miss I corrected and my last 2 shots were hits on a 10 inch plate. In F-class 1000 yards that would have been 10's.
In summary, I don't think that the 22BR is going to be any deficit at 1000 over the 6x47L. In fact I have shot the 6x47 at this exact range twice and they bot shot the same. In the 6x47 my steel bullet was the Barnes 112 MB. This little bullet holds its own. Gives good velocity and a medium barrel life. I am happy and next month when I shot and f-class match I know it will perform if I do.
So when the dust settled at 1000 and I had corrected the elevation, I saw that I had 23.75 MOA on the scope. Shooter said I needed 24.0. To me that is REALLY good correlation.
David
Picked up my first 22br this weekend and got to the range to test it out today. Kelbly nanook, 16” proof 1-7 chambered by Fischer T&C in a XLR element magnesium. Came in around 7# 12oz without the can.
Used N140, 62eldvt and 75 eldm. I hit pressure with the 62’s at 32.8gn (3267fps) slight resistance on bolt lift. 75s I hit bolt resistance at 31.8gn (3082fps)
I only shot 2 shot groups to check velocity and pressure so doesn’t tell an accurate story on accuracy but seems to have potential. I struggled to shoot the gun with as light as it is. Going to load it up with weights to help with testing next time.
Used N140, 62eldvt and 75 eldm. I hit pressure with the 62’s at 32.8gn (3267fps) slight resistance on bolt lift. 75s I hit bolt resistance at 31.8gn (3082fps)
I only shot 2 shot groups to check velocity and pressure so doesn’t tell an accurate story on accuracy but seems to have potential. I struggled to shoot the gun with as light as it is. Going to load it up with weights to help with testing next time.
Attachments
Looking for something besides RL 16 for the 88 ELD -M's. Might have to switch to 80 SMK's or 75 A Max's. Just for "banging steel'' out to 600 yds out of my 26" 8T bbl. Wondering about N 550, a bit faster that 16 ? Or maybe IMR 4451 ?
Thank you
Thank you
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I'm using 29gr varget shooting up to 900.
Also using 29gr varget with 80gr eld m shooting to 900.
Also using 29gr varget with 80gr eld m shooting to 900.
I have some 80s and 88s loaded with rmshot big game just for shits and giggles but haven't gotten a chance yet.
Coal 2.325
Bto 1.776
Speed 3015 with 88s. That's right on the edge of pressure in my gun, but shoots in upper. 2s and lower. 3s.
Bto 1.776
Speed 3015 with 88s. That's right on the edge of pressure in my gun, but shoots in upper. 2s and lower. 3s.
Ok I need help on this.
I started blowing bullets, and I want to know if the same thing happened to someone else before.
95gr SMK, H4350, @2880fps, jump of 0.010, barrel is à gain twist 7 to 6.25, and the same thing happen to my other barrel, same specs but one is à 6g the other à 5r.
I went thrue all my reloading process everything looks good. Doesnt happen with 88gr eldM or 85.5gr berger.
Groups are phenomenal (when bullets make it to the target). The first 15 shots never blew up, after that its 10 to 20% of the shots that doesnt make it to the target.
Same either barrel is clean or not. Could a barrel heat up cause this? Shots are consecutives with about 10sec between them. If I let the barrel cool down for 30min plus Im good for an other 15 to 20 shots without issue.
I started blowing bullets, and I want to know if the same thing happened to someone else before.
95gr SMK, H4350, @2880fps, jump of 0.010, barrel is à gain twist 7 to 6.25, and the same thing happen to my other barrel, same specs but one is à 6g the other à 5r.
I went thrue all my reloading process everything looks good. Doesnt happen with 88gr eldM or 85.5gr berger.
Groups are phenomenal (when bullets make it to the target). The first 15 shots never blew up, after that its 10 to 20% of the shots that doesnt make it to the target.
Same either barrel is clean or not. Could a barrel heat up cause this? Shots are consecutives with about 10sec between them. If I let the barrel cool down for 30min plus Im good for an other 15 to 20 shots without issue.
How long is the barrel?
The reason I ask is to try to get a feel for how hard you’re pushing pressure. I ran my old 24” barrel at 2950 with 85.5’s and it wasn’t high pressure but it was on the top half for sure.
After listening to most top PRS guys say they want less pressure because it’s more consistent, I’m running my new 26” barrel at ~2900. Seems to shoot pretty good, but still seeing how it goes.
Thanks. I haven’t run that bullet, but I do wonder if you’re pushing it.
I’d try backing off 0.5-1.0 grains and seeing how it does, both MV and poofs.
Good sir, I think you have an RPM issue. 6.25 at 2880 is 331,776rpm.
Surprised the 88s held together…what velocity are you running them.
Any reason you went tight on twist? My next 22BR will probably be 7.5 if I can find one.
ETA: I am running 88s at about 3005 in a 7 and its just over 300k rpm. I think any flaw in balance and the occasional, dreaded 88 eldm flyer. I thinkntaking a little off RPM will help that. Regardless, its a laser with 85.5s.
ZY
Surprised the 88s held together…what velocity are you running them.
Any reason you went tight on twist? My next 22BR will probably be 7.5 if I can find one.
ETA: I am running 88s at about 3005 in a 7 and its just over 300k rpm. I think any flaw in balance and the occasional, dreaded 88 eldm flyer. I thinkntaking a little off RPM will help that. Regardless, its a laser with 85.5s.
ZY
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Even my load at 2780fps do the exact same. Never have an issue in the first 10 rounds.
The reason for à twist that fast is the stability needed where I live, sea level and really cold. We usually have issue with stabilisation if we dont go just a bit faster twist then recommended.
Agreed.. way over spinning them. I'm at 400' elevation and my first 22br barrels were 7 twist. Had consistency issues with them right around 320,000.
Switched to 7.5 twist for my last couple barrels and been a tack driver ever since all day long. 90smk, 95smk, 88eld, 85.5,
The rule is to stay under 320,000rpm.. your spinning them way too fast
I found the sweet spot in that 290,000-300,000 range in both 22br and 22gt
If you give Hornady and Berger a call and speak to their technicians they will tell you they have tested and documented bullet blow up of their bullets above 300,000rpm. Specifically 88 eld and 90 vld.
Sierra said they don't test for rpm or bullet blow up but 95smk have been widely documented to blow up when spun to fast (over 300k).
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That definitely make sense I could send 88eldM at 2980fps with 1 out of 100 blowing.
To slow down under 300k I have to get to 2600fps wich is really slow and give all the advantage of the super high BC the 95gr offer. I'll try it to confirm, and let that sink.
Thanks everyone for the help
Or get a slower twist barrel.. faster twist hammered with the lighter 80smk and 80 vld. I mean clover leafs at 400 hammering
I bought 1K of the 95gr SMK with plans of building a 22GT. Once I started playing with stability calculators and twist rates, i realized what you are finding out. It’s really hard to get the velocity needed to capitalize on the high BC and not spin them apart
. So I sold the 95s and stuck with the 6GT.Yeah I'm leaning toward the 6BRA at this point.I bought 1K of the 95gr SMK with plans of building a 22GT. Once I started playing with stability calculators and twist rates, i realized what you are finding out. It’s really hard to get the velocity needed to capitalize on the high BC and not spin them apart
Still have like 5 barrels of 22br so I'll find a way to burn them still haha.
Considering switching to 90SMKs from the Berger 85.5, I’m not seeing the groups I think I should be. I’m also bailing on RL-16 due to the price.
Bought a few boxes of the 90SMKs to try, what powder would you recommend to replace RL-16 with these two bullets, in case I stick with the Bergers?
They stopped making it for now so your probably not going to find it but my go to powder for both these bullets is IMR4166.. Stupid accurate and I have 32lb of it...
90smk / IMR 4166
200yd
Varget and IMR4166 are very very similar so you can go with that... I also had great results with VV N550
They stopped making it for now so your probably not going to find it but my go to powder for both these bullets is IMR4166.. Stupid accurate and I have 32lb of it...
90smk / IMR 4166
200yd
Varget and IMR4166 are very very similar so you can go with that... I also had great results with VV N550
N550 is good for both? I saw you also ran H4831SC for the 95s, is that too slow for the 85/90 class?
Yea I run N550 for all 80/90's in both 22BR and 22GT. It's excellent.
I didnt get the best results with H4831 and 95's.. I didn't test it with any other bullet. H4831 is on the slower side
I tried 95 SMK’s with 6.5 StaBall and it was okay. Y’all’s testing is way more diligent than mine. That said, I didn’t find just a terribly wide node with the combo.
I’m thinking my next best guess for powder will be Ramshot Big Game.
I’m thinking my next best guess for powder will be Ramshot Big Game.
I'm working on a load right now for mine with n550 and the 85.5s. at what speed did you find your best accuracy?
29.8gr varget with the 90smi, ironically it's going 2970-2980 through the 28" 7tw barrel.
BD,
I may have missed it but 1:7 or did you go slower? Also, I think you like .120Fb?
Berger 85.5S at 3005 or so seem to treat me well and consistent. Just need to stay after that carbon every 3-400 rnds.
ZY
Has anyone tried 4451 powder with any of the heavies ? A burn hate chart has it next to RL 16 , but on the faster side . I guess the only way to see if there is any pressure problems is to load a few and test. Then load some along with RL 16 and Varget and test at the range.
Its a slower powder than the powders I have tested and work so well in 22BR but running it through QL, it doesnt look horrible. Just low case fill..30.5 - 31.0gr looks to put you right at max PSI. Id work up from 28.5-29.0gr....
My RL16 charges are 30.x loads for 85.5, 88 and 90 Atip. This is for a 30 inch 1:7 barrel. You know that 4451 was discontinued in the great covid crisis 
Well, it just reappeared ? or at least one big box store found some , and their "notification when available" came through. I wonder what was going through the bean counters minds when they cancelled 4451 but kept 4166My RL16 charges are 30.x loads for 85.5, 88 and 90 Atip. This is for a 30 inch 1:7 barrel. You know that 4451 was discontinued in the great covid crisis
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I have a question for the group. What kind of life do you get out of a 22BR. My 6 BR went to 3K rounds when the lead had grown 100 thousandths. Based on that I figured maybe 2K for the 22 BR but mine failed dramatically at 1225 rounds. I was shooting in a 600 F-Class match and at some point in the first target unexplained 7 and 8's started showing up. Then the second target of the match it was even worse. I scratched my head but hadn't put it together till the next weekend when I took this rifle to the range to shoot some of the left over ammo so I would have all the cases in this batch to the same level. At about round 17 the group went from about 1/2 inch to 5 inches by round 20. But I had found that my tuned load was now more than 50 fps slower so slower than when I did my load development so I then tried to increase the load by .2 gns and reshot 3 sets of 10 at each increment and saw this same pattern of about 15 shots then all over the map.
This is a McGowen barrel 30 inches with a 1:7 twist. About 4 months ago I had ordered a new barrel identical to this one and it arrived just in time that I could put it on before the 1000 yard match and my gun was back to shooting well so it isn't anything but the original barrel.
Is this just a fluke? It will take me a while to get to 1200 rounds again. I have bore scoped the barrel and I don't find that it shows any real difference. I measured the lead it it has grown only 50 or thousandths. Has anybody seen one of these at end of life be so dramatic in its failure?
Thanks in advance for anybody's thoughts.
David
This is a McGowen barrel 30 inches with a 1:7 twist. About 4 months ago I had ordered a new barrel identical to this one and it arrived just in time that I could put it on before the 1000 yard match and my gun was back to shooting well so it isn't anything but the original barrel.
Is this just a fluke? It will take me a while to get to 1200 rounds again. I have bore scoped the barrel and I don't find that it shows any real difference. I measured the lead it it has grown only 50 or thousandths. Has anybody seen one of these at end of life be so dramatic in its failure?
Thanks in advance for anybody's thoughts.
David
Wow. My first of 3 22BR's has over 2500rd on it and it's still hammering tiny ass groups no change in load, speed or seating depth.
28" Mullerworks cut rifled 1-7 Heavy Varmint
I ran 3000 rds in mine and started to see MV dropping around that time, so I pulled it. Groups hadn't gone to pot that I recall, I just saw progressively slower shots over the course of 100 rds and didn't want to try to chase during a match.
ETA: Bartlein 0.218" bore 5R 24" 7tw, custom reamer 0.130" FB 0.255" neck
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