.22 BRA
- Thread starter NFshooter150
- Start date
So turned the necks on 100 pieces of new Alpha brass down to 11 thou for my chamber, just to realize after I neck them down to 22bra the thickness is now 12.2 thou.. it still chambers with a loaded round but there is only like 1 thou clearance total may e less.. my Smith says send it.. what do you guys think?
Hey guys so I'm trying to troubleshoot an issue, when fire forming new Alpha 6bra brass to 22bra I have been doing the false shoulder method so that there is always a good lockup on the bolt. I recently did 25 pieces and had no issues with firing. However in the picture you can see 1 had a pierced primer and al.ost all of them have a mark from the ejector. My load was 26.8 of Varget and the avg across all 25 pieces was 2880. I've pushed this cartridge to 3100 before so it seems weird that I'm seeing this but maybe that is still too hot for the 1st firing since my headspace does move .010. what do you think
Have you fire formed a lot of brass with the barrel? I've had barrels do that after jamming a few hundred false shoulders. In my case I think the neck shoulder junction was rounding out with use and the crush fit was becoming loose.
No this was the first batch I have done. I will say I rewatched Greg from primal rights video on it again. And I never took my ejector out to check fitment of the false shoulder I always checked it with it left in which I wanna re do now
I'm picking back up 22 BRA after not awhile away from the round. Working on fire forming out all my cases and starting load development.
Last week I tested out various fire forming loads and settled with 28.0gr of Varget. I'm forming Alpha 6BR brass using a 90gr SMK that isn't jammed. Tested 26.0gr up to 28.0gr and all the loads did the job of forming out the cases the same. They all created the same consistent shoulder to base measurement and the shoulder-body edge looked form the same on all loads; no discernible difference in one being round while another being sharper. with a brand new barrel results were:
My barrel is noticeably still speeding up; the 28.0gr was up to 2807 avg. at the start of the day yesterday and at the end of the day after shooting 200 rounds the ending elevations required were noticeably less. I didn't chrono at the end of the day but it's probably 2830-2850 or so by now.
I also started charge weight testing with brass that was freshly fire formed. I'm shooting an unmeasured seating depth for now since I'm holding off on the tedious method of finding the lands until I get back a modified case. As was my experience last time developing a load for the 22 BRA basically every Varget load shoots single digit SD's and look similar on paper so pick a velocity/pressure and tune it with seating depth:
Still to do:
All my fireforming groups; 10 rounds each:
My best fireforming group; I had to stop this one after 5 rounds or else this wouldn't look as good
Testing my Andiscan vs. a friends Garmin. One read constantly 10fps or so higher which was interesting but not enough of a difference to matter so I forget which was slower or faster
Last week I tested out various fire forming loads and settled with 28.0gr of Varget. I'm forming Alpha 6BR brass using a 90gr SMK that isn't jammed. Tested 26.0gr up to 28.0gr and all the loads did the job of forming out the cases the same. They all created the same consistent shoulder to base measurement and the shoulder-body edge looked form the same on all loads; no discernible difference in one being round while another being sharper. with a brand new barrel results were:
- 26.0gr: SD 15.3: Avg 2652
- 26.5gr: SD 13.8: Avg 2697
- 27.0gr: SD 10.6: Avg 2728
- 27.5: forgot to record the results; nothing abnormal seen in velocity/SDs
- 28.0gr: SD 15.5: Avg 2773
My barrel is noticeably still speeding up; the 28.0gr was up to 2807 avg. at the start of the day yesterday and at the end of the day after shooting 200 rounds the ending elevations required were noticeably less. I didn't chrono at the end of the day but it's probably 2830-2850 or so by now.
I also started charge weight testing with brass that was freshly fire formed. I'm shooting an unmeasured seating depth for now since I'm holding off on the tedious method of finding the lands until I get back a modified case. As was my experience last time developing a load for the 22 BRA basically every Varget load shoots single digit SD's and look similar on paper so pick a velocity/pressure and tune it with seating depth:
- 30.0gr: SD 6.6; Avg 2963
- 30.1gr: SD 12.2; Avg 2968
- 30.2gr: SD 6.2; Avg 2982
- 30.3gr: SD 6.1; Avg 2989
- 30.4gr: SD 3.1; Avg 3004
- 30.5gr: SD 4.4; Avg 3009
- 30.6gr: forgot to record
- 30.7gr: SD 5.4; Avg 3028
- 30.8gr: SD 6.5; Avg 3033
- 30.9gr: SD 8.7; Avg 3049
Still to do:
- Finish fire forming all my cases; I'm working on 500 total and have about 300 done so far.
- Seating depth test with the 90 SMK
- I'll be testing the Berger 85.5gr and Sierra 95gr SMK compared to the 90gr SMK to find out what I want to stick with for the future. I'd expect it will be the Berger 85.5gr or 90gr SMK for forgiveness and ease of loading which I value more than a high BC. However I do have the need to scratch the 95gr SMK itch; so I'm going to give them a shot then probably find out they are finicky to load like people report and move on. And with that out of the way, once I've settled on a 85.5gr or 90gr the next barrel will probably be a 1:7.5 and I'll either have my reamer adjusted or get a new reamer bringing my freebore down from the current .160" to .130".
My best fireforming group; I had to stop this one after 5 rounds or else this wouldn't look as good
Testing my Andiscan vs. a friends Garmin. One read constantly 10fps or so higher which was interesting but not enough of a difference to matter so I forget which was slower or faster
Awesome stuff Tyler! I found when I used your reamer on a bartlein 7.5 twist barrel and the 85.5s that the best seating depth node was I believe 2.490 COAL, and 1.763 CBTO with the sac comparator and straight 22 Cal insert. I have had so much trouble using the alpha bra brass when trying to fire form because it has a shorter headspace. Even using a false shoulder and jamming the bullet I would still have false pressure indications because that brass is so hard that it wouldn't grip the chamber walls and expand to them but instead it would stretch to the bolt face making it seem like pressure. I switched to the Alpha BR brass and it is perfect for the 22bra spec that Manson reamers does it has about .001 to .002 of extra headspace so it provides a good tight bolt closure without needing the false shoulder or jamming. I have talked to Ray and Manson and Tom at Alpha as to why the br brass and bra brass has a shorter headspace spec but nobody really knows. My reamer is also a .250 neck and it's max case length is 1.555 so my fireform load of 26.2 of Varget and the 88elds was producing velo of like 2800. I also have to neck turn before fire forming and again after firing because necking down from 6 to 22 changes the neck thickness, so it is a pain in the ass when brass doesn't form right. That is why I am happy the alpha BR brass is working well.I'm picking back up 22 BRA after not awhile away from the round. Working on fire forming out all my cases and starting load development.
Last week I tested out various fire forming loads and settled with 28.0gr of Varget. I'm forming Alpha 6BR brass using a 90gr SMK that isn't jammed. Tested 26.0gr up to 28.0gr and all the loads did the job of forming out the cases the same. They all created the same consistent shoulder to base measurement and the shoulder-body edge looked form the same on all loads; no discernible difference in one being round while another being sharper. with a brand new barrel results were:
All loads so far are with: Alpha 6BR brass, CCI 450, Varget, Sierra 90gr SMK, 26", 1:7 Bartlien barrel.
- 26.0gr: SD 15.3: Avg 2652
- 26.5gr: SD 13.8: Avg 2697
- 27.0gr: SD 10.6: Avg 2728
- 27.5: forgot to record the results; nothing abnormal seen in velocity/SDs
- 28.0gr: SD 15.5: Avg 2773
My barrel is noticeably still speeding up; the 28.0gr was up to 2807 avg. at the start of the day yesterday and at the end of the day after shooting 200 rounds the ending elevations required were noticeably less. I didn't chrono at the end of the day but it's probably 2830-2850 or so by now.
I also started charge weight testing with brass that was freshly fire formed. I'm shooting an unmeasured seating depth for now since I'm holding off on the tedious method of finding the lands until I get back a modified case. As was my experience last time developing a load for the 22 BRA basically every Varget load shoots single digit SD's and look similar on paper so pick a velocity/pressure and tune it with seating depth:
No pressure signs seen on any charge which was expected; last time I ran this test with a prior barrel and Lapua brass 31.3gr of Varget was where I started seeing abnormal primer cratering (CCI 450) and 31.6gr started to run into heavy bolt lift. I'm not looking to chase down every last bit of performance and don't want to push pressures yet so I plan to stick with 30.4gr of Varget which will probably end up in the 3030 -3040 fps range when the barrel has finished speeding up. With my old Lapua brass that load shot 3040, SD 5.9 and so far it looks like Alpha brass will be about the same; or more accurately this new barrel will probably have similar speeds compared to my last barrel.
- 30.0gr: SD 6.6; Avg 2963
- 30.1gr: SD 12.2; Avg 2968
- 30.2gr: SD 6.2; Avg 2982
- 30.3gr: SD 6.1; Avg 2989
- 30.4gr: SD 3.1; Avg 3004
- 30.5gr: SD 4.4; Avg 3009
- 30.6gr: forgot to record
- 30.7gr: SD 5.4; Avg 3028
- 30.8gr: SD 6.5; Avg 3033
- 30.9gr: SD 8.7; Avg 3049
Still to do:
All my fireforming groups; 10 rounds each:
- Finish fire forming all my cases; I'm working on 500 total and have about 300 done so far.
- Seating depth test with the 90 SMK
- I'll be testing the Berger 85.5gr and Sierra 95gr SMK compared to the 90gr SMK to find out what I want to stick with for the future. I'd expect it will be the Berger 85.5gr or 90gr SMK for forgiveness and ease of loading which I value more than a high BC. However I do have the need to scratch the 95gr SMK itch; so I'm going to give them a shot then probably find out they are finicky to load like people report and move on. And with that out of the way, once I've settled on a 85.5gr or 90gr the next barrel will probably be a 1:7.5 and I'll either have my reamer adjusted or get a new reamer bringing my freebore down from the current .160" to .130".
View attachment 8636184
My best fireforming group; I had to stop this one after 5 rounds or else this wouldn't look as good
View attachment 8636192
Testing my Andiscan vs. a friends Garmin. One read constantly 10fps or so higher which was interesting but not enough of a difference to matter so I forget which was slower or faster
View attachment 8636193
1.763 CBTO by my measurements with a Berger 85.5gr would be 0.002" into the lands; does that seem right to you? I measured my distance to the lands with the 3 bullets I'm testing and got these measurements:
Berger 85.5gr: 1.761
Sierra 90gr: 1.777
Sierra 95gr: 1.763
And here's what those 3 dummy rounds look like: 85.5gr, 90gr, 95gr:
I think forming out BR brass and not BRA is the way to go. If we need to fireform out the brass it's seems more logical to me to have the extra space for the brass to grow out into instead of trying to maybe get the BRA 40 degree shoulder to push out just a little bit which somehow seems harder to me.
That's interesting what you said about not really needing to leave a false shoulder when necking down Alpha 6BR. I've been trialing a few different methods and sizes of leaving a false shoulder for fireforming and so far I haven't settled on my preferred method. However I gotten though forming up 300 cases so far with a really shallow angle false shoulder and I'll probably finish up the remaining 200 or so I have this weekend with different and sharper false shoulders. On the very shallow-angle false shoulder I was getting maybe a quarter or third that wouldn't fire on the first trigger pull, a second trigger pull and they all worked the second time. I think the shallow false shoulder was too easy to crush down on and allowing the rounds to slide a little more into the chamber which isn't ideal. I think the more recent fire forming methods I'll be testing this weekend should work much better and resolve that issue.
Why did you decide to go with a .250 neck on your reamer? With new loaded Alpha brass my rounds measured .251" at the neck and from memory I think Lapua was also .251". I went with a .255" neck to avoid turning. I'm not chasing tiny groups and spend more of my time banging steel either off the bench or barricades so neck turning for extreme consistency doesn't benefit that shooting style.
What free bore did you go with on your reamer and how's it been working out? I think you went with a .120"? I went with the extremely long .160" because I want to try out the 95gr Sierra SMK's. I'm thinking that once I try them out and find out that I'm happier with 85.5gr or 90gr I might go with a shorter free bore in the .120" - .130" range next.
I went with the .250 neck because I did get into turning lol.. because my chamber is also shorter I'm wondering if I am not needing a false shoulder because I am leaving them long like 1.563 and my chamber is 1.555 so maybe that's why mine isn't moving..
You're correct. I have the standard SAC 22 cal bullet comparator so that explains the difference.
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