22 CM and Heavy varmint bullets

[Coyote Kev]

So everyone is shooting super long bullets with super fast twist barrels with these things...
My question is: has anyone used these on prairie dogs and what heavy bullet gets the "pink mist" effect? It seems that all the longer heavier bullets are match bullets. I want similar results to my 22-250 shooting 50gr Vmax at about 4000 fps. If there was a good explosive bullet in that 65-85 grain range I would do a 8 twist. If not then I think I want a 10 twist.

 

[jcmullis2]

I wonder if you could use frangible bullets in your 22-250? That would probably get you the pink mist your wanting.

 

[Coyote Kev]

I wonder if you could use frangible bullets in your 22-250? That would probably get you the pink mist your wanting.

The 22-250 gets the results I want. BUT.... it's shot out and instead of rebarreling a Savage I'm considering a 22 caliber P dog smasher for my Desert Tech SRS. Problem is there is some anecdotal evidence that the 22-250 doesn't feed or extract well in the DTA platform.

 

[jcmullis2]

I’m not familiar with DTA so of course I googled it. They look a lot like the old bushmaster bullpup. I always liked that design. I wonder if the long, fat, heavily tapered 250 cartridge causes the feed problems. There’s nothing more frustrating than mystery feed problems.

 

[Coyote Kev]

I’m not familiar with DTA so of course I googled it. They look a lot like the old bushmaster bullpup. I always liked that design. I wonder if the long, fat, heavily tapered 250 cartridge causes the feed problems. There’s nothing more frustrating than mystery feed problems.

If you like the DTA design, you should definitely have one. Extrodinarly accurate rifles. They have quite a following here on the hide as well.

It's no mystery that the 22-250 body taper is a problem. Especially in a singlestack mag. The problem amplifies the deeper you stack them. I've had one guy say that it functioned just fine in a 5 round mag and I had the dude from ES tactical say he had problems.

 

[jcmullis2]

I like the looks of the dta but don’t know anything about them. I bet a 6mm-223 would function flawlessly in that platform. At present I’m building a custom bolt rig but I’m definitely gonna look into the DTA’s to see if it’s something for me. They look like a great close quarters weapon but must be equally suited for distance shooting. What kind of distances are they using them for?

 

[spife7980]

22 creed is about the same as the 22-250ai which has been around a lot longer so yes, it will get you the pink mist. Dont get a fast twist barrel to shoot the light bullets, youll detonate them with spin. Id probably go 9 or 10 twist t shoot the 45-55 stuff.

Do it.

 

[Coyote Kev]

I like the looks of the dta but don’t know anything about them. I bet a 6mm-223 would function flawlessly in that platform. At present I’m building a custom bolt rig but I’m definitely gonna look into the DTA’s to see if it’s something for me. They look like a great close quarters weapon but must be equally suited for distance shooting. What kind of distances are they using them for?

I feel like you are talking about the Desert Tech MDR. That is an auto. I have the SRS (bolt) and it shoots any distance you want.

 

[Coyote Kev]

22 creed is about the same as the 22-250ai which has been around a lot longer so yes, it will get you the pink mist. Dont get a fast twist barrel to shoot the light bullets, youll detonate them with spin. Id probably go 9 or 10 twist t shoot the 45-55 stuff.

Do it.

Yes, but the question is: Any longer heavier bullets like 65-85 gr being used in the 22 creed with pink mist results?

 

[jcmullis2]

I feel like you are talking about the Desert Tech MDR. That is an auto. I have the SRS (bolt) and it shoots any distance you want.

Like I said I don’t know anything about that platform only what I read on that there interweb.

 

[spife7980]

Yes, but the question is: Any longer heavier bullets like 65-85 gr being used in the 22 creed with pink mist results?

Ahhhhhhh, I gotcha now.

In that case get an 8 twist and push the 75 eld, Ive heard good reports but I cant vouch for the sources as its the internet after all.

 

[orkan]

If you like the DTA design, you should definitely have one. Extrodinarly accurate rifles. They have quite a following here on the hide as well.

It's no mystery that the 22-250 body taper is a problem. Especially in a singlestack mag. The problem amplifies the deeper you stack them. I've had one guy say that it functioned just fine in a 5 round mag and I had the dude from ES tactical say he had problems.

The issue with 22-250 in SRS isn't a feeding problem, it's ejection that's the problem. 22-250AI works fine, as does 22 creed.

As for the OP, think of the 22 creed as a 22-250AI with a couple grains more capacity and you'll be fine. Any of the light weight varmint bullets will achieve the affect you're going for. More importantly, if you stay with an 8 or 9 twist and use lightweight bullets... the "splode" is even harder than it would be with a 12 or 14 twist. The fast twist combined with light bullets really puts on a show up close. (inside 300yds)

At farther distances, light bullets just suck... in everything. A p-dog at 400yds is small when you're holding 3 mils+ of wind.

 

[Coyote Kev]

I edited my original post and title to more accurately reflect what I’m trying to ask. Any heavy explosive bullets in 22 cal ?

 

[jcmullis2]

We had some pretty interesting stuff in the military. Using Raufoss rounds on small critters is a bit overkill but I feel you bro. I don’t know if they’re available to the public but if they are they probably ain’t cheap.

 

[hwy1strat]

I was on the same search not too long ago. I never found any high BC 22 cal varmint bullets. I moved up to a 6 creed with a 1:10 twist to load the 75gr and 87gr vmax. It is still being built right now so I have no personal experience with it yet

 

[Ankeny]

I shoot 69 TMK and 77 TMK in my 22 Creedmoor. They will launch a p-dog farther than I will walk for a free turkey.

 

[StraightShooter77]

So everyone is shooting super long bullets with super fast twist barrels with these things...
My question is: has anyone used these on prairie dogs and what heavy bullet gets the "pink mist" effect? It seems that all the longer heavier bullets are match bullets. I want similar results to my 22-250 shooting 50gr Vmax at about 4000 fps. If there was a good explosive bullet in that 65-85 grain range I would do a 8 twist. If not then I think I want a 10 twist.

We have a customer we just shipped a .22 Creedmoor prefit barrel who plans to run the 55 grain v-max. I am sure it will be smoking fast, but we haven't got the field report yet.

One thing to think when pushing the bullets fast is RPM. Jacketed bullets can rip apart if they spin to fast (330,000+RPM).

To determine bullet RPM you multiply your muzzle velocity times 720 and then divide the result by your rifles twist rate. For example my AR15 in .204 Ruger (Lilja barrel 1-12"T)shoots at 3850 (3850MV x 720) / 12 =231,000.

If we can be of help feel free to call us at Straight Jacket Armory (www.straightjacketarmory) 307-707-3181 Ext 1 with any questions you might have!

Shoot Straight!

StraightShooter77

 

[Coyote Kev]

I shoot 69 TMK and 77 TMK in my 22 Creedmoor. They will launch a p-dog farther than I will walk for a free turkey.

This is what I'm talking about. I found a little bit of info on these very same bullets last night from a different source. Thanks for the confirmation.

 

[jcmullis2]

I like the 69 SMKs. Damn accurate.

 

[hollowoutadime]

Been shooting dogs in Colorado a few times/year since 2011. (went two weeks ago for four days,almost 600 rounds fired) I started in 2011 with a rem 40XB in .220 swift shooting 52's. That's the definition of pink mist. As orkan pointed out, 400yd shots are problematic. I moved into the 243/260 Accy Intl world and extended the range, I used 120 scenars and SMK, awful experience, acted as ice picks. As you expect, varmint bullets are nothing like most match bullets. You need the bullet to stay together through the twist, but dump all energy at impact. I picked a middle ground and now use a 6br with 87gr vmax and berger 88 varmints. 717 yd holding 1.6 mil in wind with a 87 gr vmax, not bad. I tried 62gr Barnes Varmint Grenade out of a fast twist 243, bullet grenaded.

 

[6brshooter]

The issue with 22-250 in SRS isn't a feeding problem, it's ejection that's the problem. 22-250AI works fine, as does 22 creed.

As for the OP, think of the 22 creed as a 22-250AI with a couple grains more capacity and you'll be fine. Any of the light weight varmint bullets will achieve the affect you're going for. More importantly, if you stay with an 8 or 9 twist and use lightweight bullets... the "splode" is even harder than it would be with a 12 or 14 twist. The fast twist combined with light bullets really puts on a show up close. (inside 300yds)

At farther distances, light bullets just suck... in everything. A p-dog at 400yds is small when you're holding 3 mils+ of wind.

Get ready to throttle your speed back if you try running 50gr bullets at 4000+fps in a 8tw. Max bullet rpm is a thing, there's a formula, and different bullet manufacturers have max rpm. I believe Sierra blitzking have a max rpm of 275,000, vmax are more like 250,000rpm. Keep in mind that as throat gets firecracked, thats going to be harder on jackets and cause blow ups at previous "safe" speeds. Personally, id look at a 10 or 12 tw with 53gr vmax in 22 creed. The 53gr vmax has a .295bc, not crazy high, but isn't that far from a 69smk and way higher than other 50&55gr varmint bullets.

Obviously not too pink misty, but 2600fps 50gr vmax from a 10.5 is pretty nasty.

 

[orkan]

Lots of bullets will take the RPM of 4000 FPS and an 8 twist in 22 cal. Besides, the only situation I'd ever use that combination is in a P-dog town or similar varminting situation. Running them right on the ragged edge of exploding in flight creates the most epic p-dog destruction you will ever see upon impact!!!

 

[6brshooter]

Bullet rpm at 4000fps and 8 tw is 360,000. Hornady vmax is rated at 290,000, Sierra blitzking max is at 352,000. What might, MIGHT, be marginally OK on a fresh barrel won't be when the barrel has 400-500rds on it. You know when the throat looks like an alligator hide.

If you plug in 10tw in formula, the rpm is a little better at 288,000. Mv x 720/twist rate.

 

[6brshooter]

I was blowing up 105 hybrids at 3350 in a 8tw 243ai that had 1200rds on it on a 105° day. Throat actually looked pretty decent for what it endured, I figured barrel was trash. I cleaned it, only had 45rds on it since previously cleaned, and let my smith scope it. He didn't see anything unusual that would cause blowups. I went to the range and shot a .148" 3 shot group, speed had dropped to 3275. Never had a problem after that, all components were same.

 

[orkan]

I was running 52smk’s at over 4K with 800 rounds and still going fine.

 

[6brshooter]

I was running 52smk’s at over 4K with 800 rounds and still going fine.

Not exactly a thin jacketed varmint bullet, but instead a thick jacketed target bullet that sierra recommends against using for hunting. I have used them on yotes, so no issue there.

 

[orkan]

Not exactly a thin jacketed varmint bullet, but instead a thick jacketed target bullet that sierra recommends against using for hunting. I have used them on yotes, so no issue there.

Plenty of other bullets can take it too.

 

[6brshooter]

Plenty of other bullets can take it too.

Like? What explosive bullet can handle 360,000? Sure target bullets can, thick jackets and they aren't running 4k and they don't make pink mist. You've said alot can handle that rpm, but only mention one target bullet. A 10 tw would work with all the better varmint bullets and would also handle 69tmk and probably 77smk/tmk, for dual purpose.

 

[orkan]

Like? What explosive bullet can handle 360,000? Sure target bullets can, thick jackets and they aren't running 4k and they don't make pink mist. You've said alot can handle that rpm, but only mention one target bullet. A 10 tw would work with all the better varmint bullets and would also handle 69tmk and probably 77smk/tmk, for dual purpose.

You win. I'd give you a list of bullets I've shot in 8 twist big 22cal with success... but your tone is very aggravating. So instead I'll just tell you you're right, and move along.

 

[6brshooter]

Yeah, not aggravating, but thats like your opinion, man. You claim something thats so common but can't give an example other than one bullet. I'm dropping facts based on bullet manufacturers specs, you're talking anecdotal, at best.

 

[stello1001]

 

[spife7980]

Yeah, not aggravating, but thats like your opinion, man. You claim something thats so common but can't give an example other than one bullet. I'm dropping facts based on bullet manufacturers specs, you're talking anecdotal, at best.

If there is one thing orkan speaks on its experience.

 

[6brshooter]

Maybe, maybe not. I don't mind to be wrong, not the first time, but op was looking for a 22 creed to make red mist. That takes speed and a fairly frangible bullet. Frangible bullets have thin jackets. Those frangible bullets also have rpm caps of 290,000 and 352,000 set by the manufacturer. Yes, there is probably a little wiggle room safety margin. Firecracked throats are harder on jackets. So to reiterate my point, would a 8tw @ 4000fps work with frangible bullets when new, maybe, will it blow up bullets after 200 or 300rds worth of firecracking, more than likely.

If op wanted a 8 tw 22creed for shooting 80+gr bullets with the occasional light varmint bullet , fine, but just watch your speed with light bullets. He specifically asked about a load that pink mists varmints, even asked about 8 or 10tw. I know a 10 will do exactly what he wants, an 8tw is speculation. I'm sure an 8tw works fine for a 52smk, what if new 8 tw barrel hates that bullet, then what? Not trying to argue with orkan, but a 10tw has a bigger margin of error for what op wants to do and gives him more bullet choices. Not everybody can spend 650+dollars on a barrel and then after 200rds say"oh well, I was wrong, let's spend another 650+$."

 

[Coyote Kev]

Maybe, maybe not. I don't mind to be wrong, not the first time, but op was looking for a 22 creed to make red mist. That takes speed and a fairly frangible bullet. Frangible bullets have thin jackets. Those frangible bullets also have rpm caps of 290,000 and 352,000 set by the manufacturer. Yes, there is probably a little wiggle room safety margin. Firecracked throats are harder on jackets. So to reiterate my point, would a 8tw @ 4000fps work with frangible bullets when new, maybe, will it blow up bullets after 200 or 300rds worth of firecracking, more than likely.

If op wanted a 8 tw 22creed for shooting 80+gr bullets with the occasional light varmint bullet , fine, but just watch your speed with light bullets. He specifically asked about a load that pink mists varmints, even asked about 8 or 10tw. I know a 10 will do exactly what he wants, an 8tw is speculation. I'm sure an 8tw works fine for a 52smk, what if new 8 tw barrel hates that bullet, then what? Not trying to argue with orkan, but a 10tw has a bigger margin of error for what op wants to do and gives him more bullet choices. Not everybody can spend 650+dollars on a barrel and then after 200rds say"oh well, I was wrong, let's spend another 650+$."

Yeah. Really a dilemma. Wrestled with 8 or 10 twist. I bought a 8 twist. Hopefully gonna run the 69 SMK. The 8 twist gives me a little more room on the upper end in case this thing is really as fun to shoot long range as everyone says. I've found a few places that it's a pretty nasty bullet on P dogs. I'm having ES tactical put this together for my Desert Tech so it's more like $900 to find out.

 

[308Gunner]

I had a 22-250 that was running 4150 with 40 gr ballistic tips talk about pink mist, but the wind had to be calm

 

[260284]

I have shot some 53gr V-Max out of a 7 twist 22BR at 3600 fps. They hit my 415yard plate pretty hard. That is just above 370,000 rpm if I did the math right. Going to cut down and set back my barrel that has 1800 rounds on it and use it for a suppressed coyote calling rifle.

 

[Coyote Kev]

You win. I'd give you a list of bullets I've shot in 8 twist big 22cal with success... but your tone is very aggravating. So instead I'll just tell you you're right, and move along.

I'll take that list.

 

[orkan]

I'll take that list.

I have a better idea. You test them all, and then give me a list of 22cal bullets that won't do 4,000fps in an 8 twist. Because based on my own testing, there are more that will, than won't. 40gr V-max is one of only ones that I didn't have success with. Probably because it was going well over 4000. I don't recall having an issue with any other bullet I tested. All of my experience was using benchmark 3 groove and 5R configurations. 22-250, 22-243, 22-243AI, and 22 creed mostly. Nosler ballistic tips are epic for being able to be pushed fast yet come apart nicely.

Your success will likely vary due to land/groove configuration, lead angle, bore differences, etc. The only way to know, is to test.

 

[6brshooter]

5r and odd number of grooves should cause less distortion and be easier on jackets.

 

[Coyote Kev]

Maybe a niche here for a new bullet. Just glancing through Midway I didn't see a varmint bullet in 22 cal that was over 60 or 62 grains. And most of those were flat based.