22 Creed - Why isn’t it more popular?

[rlsmith1]

Apart from barrel life, why isn’t the 22 Creed more popular? Any chance Hornady and others produce factory ammo in the next year or two?

It looks to be a low recoil laser with less than 6 MILs needed for 1,000 yds. It handily beats it’s 6mm and 6.5mm relatives at any reasonable range (given, there is less energy on target).

I asked because I had a 6 Creed that I loved but sold to fund another rifle. I’m now looking at a 6 or 22 Creed barrel for this new rifle but really want factory support behind whatever I choose. A MOD400BB blank wouldn’t really save money but would allow a single barrel to be used longer in either which is a plus for me

 

[Pete B]

You can't separate barrel life, it is the BIGGEST reason for most overbore cartidges being less popular. Obviously there are other negatives that are relatedly to barrel life, not just cost......
Load stability / inconvenience of running a new barrel in / load development (honestly not a huge deal I find for prs at least).
Ultimately in my opinion, barrel life is THE reason

 

[cas6969]

Kind of the same story / history of all the large .224's that came before it. .22-250 was right on the edge, anything more was too much of a good thing and never became popular.

 

[redbullitt]

Barrel life for me kills it... i just dont like eating tubes so fast.

It is less of an issue on a quick change barrel setup... dt ai or a barrel nut setup could get me shooting it though.

Other than that reloading supplies now are not exactly setting me up for adding and experimenting with a new caliber.

 

[Raffy]

What is the barrel life on these? I can only imagine it must be atrocious. Are we talking like 700 rounds or something?

 

[beetroot]

I've often wondered if it could be downloaded to 22gt speeds to improve barrel life.

I was all keen to jump in the 22br/22gt band wagon but the continued component shortages (im not in the US) makes the use of creedmoor brass very compelling.

An 88gr ELDM at 3100fps using Hornady brass would provide excellent ballistics, little recoil, and very very cheap reloading components.

 

[Ebar48]

I've often wondered if it could be downloaded to 22gt speeds to improve barrel life.

I was all keen to jump in the 22br/22gt band wagon but the continued component shortages (im not in the US) makes the use of creedmoor brass very compelling.

An 88gr ELDM at 3100fps using Hornady brass would provide excellent ballistics, little recoil, and very very cheap reloading components.

I’m running the 88s in a 22-250 AI with a fast twist barrel about 3200 with a mile load of RL-26 and it is pretty cheep and fun to run. However I’m at 650 rounds down the barrel now and it’s about toast. SDs way up, sporadic flyers every once in a while and if you don’t strip the barre down to metal every 50 rounds it blows up bullets. It’s on a barrel nut system however so barrel swaps are easy, but man it cooked that one quick.

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

As a comparison to the above; (22br/gt and 22-250ai). I'm shooting 87gr v-max in a 22" barrel 6mm arc, in a mild load at 3050. Could easily exceed 3200 but don't need to. They have known barrel lives of 5k+ rounds and you don't have to fireform anything. Lower BC means it isn't as flat of course, but it still gets there.

 

[beetroot]

I’m running the 88s in a 22-250 AI with a fast twist barrel about 3200 with a mile load of RL-26 and it is pretty cheep and fun to run. However I’m at 650 rounds down the barrel now and it’s about toast. SDs way up, sporadic flyers every once in a while and if you don’t strip the barre down to metal every 50 rounds it blows up bullets. It’s on a barrel nut system however so barrel swaps are easy, but man it cooked that one quick.

Thats not very appealing...
Would the RL26 have much to do with that barrel life? Being only 100fps faster than a GT wouldn't expect barrel life to be that much worse.

 

[Birch7]

If you’re talking for competition, barrel life and tuning are big concerns. 22GT will get an 88 or 90 up to or near 3200, where rpms will really start to get high for the twist needed. Where the cartridge shines is with a 95 smk, which have not been available in some time. Hornady has made 22 creed brass, but I really doubt the 22 has the appeal for them to put any attention to it in the current climate. How many factory rifles are chambered in 22 creed?

 

[Birch7]

Being only 100fps faster than a GT wouldn't expect barrel life to be that much worse.

It’s exactly that last 100fps, and the powder needed for it going into the throat, that makes it that much worse

 

[beetroot]

It’s exactly that last 100fps, and the powder needed for it going into the throat, that makes it that much worse

I should've asked what you powder charge was.
Obviously if your loading more powder than a GT (over 35ish grains) then you'll be getting the horrible barrel life these cartridges are known for.

 

[rlsmith1]

Thanks for the replies guys. Sub 1,000 round barrel life is understandably a turnoff for a lot of people.

What is barrel life on 22-250’s? They have factory support and while not wildly popular, have a real base of users

 

[Nortex]

I have about 1300 rounds on my 22 creed. It still shoots lights out but the throat has significant wear on it so I suspect its not long for. I have ran primarily 90gr Berger's out of it but have ran a bit of 88 eld-m too. I found powder affected things more than anything. Rl-26 caused a lot of finicky issues (flyers and pressure spikes mainly) due to fouling. Sometimes it was good for 300rds other times it needed to be scrubbed sooner. I switched to rl23 and it is very consistent at needing to be cleaned every 300-400rds. Mine being a 7 twist it is technically over spinning so now my primary problem when I reach the round count for cleaning it blows bullets up on long strings of 10 or so. It mostly is only 1 or so in the run that does. A 7.5 or 8 twist would be much more ideal.

 

[spife7980]

It may be a barrel burner but I was pushing an 85 rdf at 3400 with 43.5 of rl26 (max load- hot) in alpha brass in a 26" barrel. If your bullet cant take 325k+ rpms then you need a better bullet that can, thats all. Mine went 900 of great shooting before the last 100 went down hill quickly. Buy a box of 1k bullets and pull the barrel when you are done shooting them.

BUT it was 1.7 mils to 500 and I basically never had to hold wind on an 8" plate to make hits when my 6.5 creed set up with 140s was 3.2 and usually at least half a mil of wind.


The 22 creed is bad ass. And it seems pretty popular for a nonsaami chambering, most popular that I can gather of the fast 22s in this day and age.

 

[Birch7]

The 22-250 has about zero factory support for long range, aside from a fast twist tikka, I’m not sure of any widely available heavy projo ammo. I agree that the 22 creed is a great cartridge, I’ve had 2. Is someone like Hornady gonna saami and pick it up for mass production when they can’t keep up with current production? I doubt it. I think we’d be more likely to see a 22 arc, considering the wider use potential.

 

[b6graham]

i have a 22LRV (6XC parent case) that's great fun when i have 95 SMKs. 3140fps with 37.6gr H4350 cruising load

super flat. barely hold wind.

but bullet selection and RPMs make it tough in addition to barrel life. even 95gr versus 105gr makes a splash difference

hornady making factory 22CM with 88s means they'd have to address the whole bullet blowing up issue...and even then there are MANY 6CM factory options right now and a lot of them have berger and sierra options

 

[MakeSawdust]

What's old is new again. 22/250 will give decent barrel life if used for hunting situations like calling coyotes or shooting ground hogs. Take it to the range and run long strings or take it to the prarie dog towns and the barrel life isn't as good.

22 creed is pretty close to 22/243. Even a straight 243 has shit barrel life except in a narrow set of circumstances. If you want decent barrel life, go to accurate shooter and search the 6 competition match. It is not the cartridge, but the powders, speeds, and the way they clean that gives the good barrel life. I have been doing it with a 243 Ackley for a long time now. I will say this. Sometimes it works and sometimes a barrel still goes fast, like at 1700 rounds. Most of my barrels have lasted around 2500-2700 rounds. A 26" barrel will push 105s at 3200 easy and 115s at 3050 is coasting. I have a 28" barrel running 115s at 3140 right now. I often wondered if a 6XC or 6 Creed running N160 would do the same thing.

Hotrod cartridges are fun, but you do have consistency issues and a lot of cleaning to deal with. When I want to place as high as possible at a match, I run a 6 Dasher. The consistency is worth far more points than cheating the wind if you know what you are doing.

When hunting, speed kills. There is a magical animal flattening power to high speed bullets. If you put a holes through both lungs they will die, but the speed sure cuts down the tracking.

I think the cartridges aren't more popular because people want to take their guns to the range and shoot them. If you have multiple guns it's no big deal. You shoot 308, 223, 6br at the range. The Hotrod stuff you break in the barrel, find a load, true the ballistic calculator, and put it in the safe, only to come out to kill things. They last a long time. If you take them to the range and shoot them every weekend you need a train car full of barrels and you are constantly cleaning them.

The ballistics of the 22 Creed will give it a surge in popularity until people figure out the tradeoffs. Then it will become a niche hunting caliber for calling coyotes and shooting small deer. It will serve those roles well.

 

[rlsmith1]

The 22-250 has about zero factory support for long range, aside from a fast twist tikka, I’m not sure of any widely available heavy projo ammo. I agree that the 22 creed is a great cartridge, I’ve had 2. Is someone like Hornady gonna saami and pick it up for mass production when they can’t keep up with current production? I doubt it. I think we’d be more likely to see a 22 arc, considering the wider use potential.

I agree on the 22-250 and that's why I think the door is open for the Creed. If we head into a recession, spending on this stuff will slow down and Hornady (and everyone) will catch up on demand. Then the question becomes if it is the best use of funds in that environment. But hey, 2024 elections are just around the corner.

A 22 ARC would be interesting but I personally wouldn't run it. If I want more performance than a 556, I'll grab a gun made for the job

 

[beetroot]

i have a 22LRV (6XC parent case) that's great fun when i have 95 SMKs. 3140fps with 37.6gr H4350 cruising load

super flat. barely hold wind.

but bullet selection and RPMs make it tough in addition to barrel life. even 95gr versus 105gr makes a splash difference

hornady making factory 22CM with 88s means they'd have to address the whole bullet blowing up issue...and even then there are MANY 6CM factory options right now and a lot of them have berger and sierra options

I'm pretty ignorant on the 6XC/22LRV but I gather a full load of H4350 would be 40gr+?

Have you burnt out a barrel running a pedestrian load yet? Do you think a detuned 22creed/22LRV would get near 22GT/BR barrel life or not likely?

 

[HOOFER]

It looks to be a low recoil laser with less than 6 MILs needed for 1,000 yds. It handily beats it’s 6mm and 6.5mm relatives at any reasonable range (given, there is less energy on target).

I asked because I had a 6 Creed that I loved but sold to fund another rifle. I’m now looking at a 6 or 22 Creed barrel for this new rifle but really want factory support behind whatever I choose. A MOD400BB blank wouldn’t really save money but would allow a single barrel to be used longer in either which is a plus for me

I think with most overbore cartridges it is all what you want to do with it.

If you want to shoot matches probably not the one for you. I you wanna go shoot 500 rounds a weekend zapping prairie dogs probably not for you.

I shoot 2 rifles one heavy and one light in 22 creed for 15-20 coyotes a winter. So for me. 800-1000 barrel life is well worth the advantage even a barrel every 2 years is not that big of a deal to me.

Ease of making brass from 22-250. 6 or 65 creed. In large or small rifle primer was my main motivation. During the craziness. And my huge stock of h4350

My 7mm STWs and 6.5 SAUM are all still running strong over 1k rounds, Not hot rodding them is key.

In my experience. Most guys complaining/worrying about barrel life
Have never shot one out. Barrels are the cheapest/wearable part of a rifle system

Don’t drive a corvette to go to the grocery store if you are worried about replacing tires.

 

[parshal]

I ran 82 grain Bergers at 3400+ and it was just as accurate at 1200 rounds as it was in the beginning. The throat was trash for 3" but it still shot. I was running R23.

 

[b6graham]

I'm pretty ignorant on the 6XC/22LRV but I gather a full load of H4350 would be 40gr+?

Have you burnt out a barrel running a pedestrian load yet? Do you think a detuned 22creed/22LRV would get near 22GT/BR barrel life or not likely?

my 6XC loads have been 39.6gr H4350 with a 105 at ~3040 from multiple barrels and i'm sure there's room for another grain or two considering guys run 40gr H1000

haven't bunt out a 22LRV barrel yet but have like 800rd on it and it shoots good still...though havent shot it in like 3 years. pretty sure WTO has said 1500-1700rds

shoulder angle and longer neck help some

 

[Dough300]

I think its a fantastic varmint and predator caliber and at pretty good distances too. With the right bullet they will kill antelope, deer, even smaller black bears. At ranges inside 200yds. Would say its dead but no a first choice for most people.

 

[supercorndogs]

Thats probably another big reason its not more popular. The 22-250. Lots of guys already have them, have brass and dies, load data and experience.

 

[david walter]

I have a rechambered 223 Tikka Superlite in 22 Creedmoor and expect to experiment with 88 ELDMs in the next day or so.

I've read on other threads on the 'hide that the 1 in 8 twist might be an advantage in not burning out the barrel as fast.

 

[chungus]

Hornady will be producing 80gr ELD-m and ELD-x 22 creed ammo. It is supposed to hit the shelves in the next month.

 

[JR1200W3]

That's going to make the RPMs problem even worse unless they heavily sandbag the load.

 

[epeet]

22-250 isn't very popular, outside of some varmint builds. I don't know why anyone thought what is basically .22-308 would be either. By the time you work up some loads and ring some steel, you might be halfway through the barrel life. That might be acceptable for people who want a gun to last a season of groundhogging, but it isn't something most shooters are going to put up with.

 

[JR1200W3]

Well, it outlived the 7WSM, SAUM, 260, and some other cartridges that ostensibly checked all those boxes. At this point, I don't know why someone would choose the 22-250 or 250AI over the 22 Creedmoor unless it's for some ancillary reason like they already have brass and dies.

 

[HOOFER]

Well, it outlived the 7WSM, SAUM, 260, and some other cartridges that ostensibly checked all those boxes. At this point, I don't know why someone would choose the 22-250 or 250AI over the 22 Creedmoor unless it's for some ancillary reason like they already have brass and dies.

22-250 will continue. For a long time. For ground hog pdog and coyote hunters alike.

Lots of guys don’t need to shoot 65+ grain plus bullets at that speed.

Lots of guys shoot 35-55grain bullets.

I have 2 22 creeds and love them for a coyote/antelope gun. But they are notably harder on fur than my 22-250s were.

They do bridge the gap for deer and antelope size game. But for coyotes and such they are way way over kill. With little ballistic gain at normal hunting distances.

If you wanna shoot 600+ with 80-88s then go nuts. But at that point. A 6creed does that also.

Once they go commercial by Hornady. It will bite on, though not as the other creedmoors have

It’s all about selling guns. And selling snake oil to non reloaders who don’t know any better is a lot of gun companies business models.

I can’t tell you how many times I have heard younger folks on gun ranges talkijg none sense right out of rifleman magazine or off a Hornady ad.

One of my 22 creeds is a 1-9 and I will likely go slower next barrel to shoot lighter bullets.

 

[HOOFER]

22-250 isn't very popular, outside of some varmint builds. I don't know why anyone thought what is basically .22-308 would be either. By the time you work up some loads and ring some steel, you might be halfway through the barrel life. That might be acceptable for people who want a gun to last a season of groundhogging, but it isn't something most shooters are going to put up with.

I think if you went in everyone’s gun cabinet in Montana, Wyoming, South and North Dakota, Texas and a half dozen other states. You would find ALOT of 22-250s, 220 swifts and other calibers that are perceived as “unpopular”.

Being unpopular in circles like this isn’t a good metric for measuring anything.

Lots of those same folks don’t own short barreled 308s and 6.5 creeds. Which are quite popular here.

 

[JR1200W3]

22-250 will continue. For a long time. For ground hog pdog and coyote hunters alike.

Lots of guys don’t need to shoot 65+ grain plus bullets at that speed.

Lots of guys shoot 35-55grain bullets.

I have 2 22 creeds and love them for a coyote/antelope gun. But they are notably harder on fur than my 22-250s were.

They do bridge the gap for deer and antelope size game. But for coyotes and such they are way way over kill. With little ballistic gain at normal hunting distances.

If you wanna shoot 600+ with 80-88s then go nuts. But at that point. A 6creed does that also.

Once they go commercial by Hornady. It will bite on, though not as the other creedmoors have

It’s all about selling guns. And selling snake oil to non reloaders who don’t know any better is a lot of gun companies business models.

I can’t tell you how many times I have heard younger folks on gun ranges talkijg none sense right out of rifleman magazine or off a Hornady ad.

One of my 22 creeds is a 1-9 and I will likely go slower next barrel to shoot lighter bullets.

What are you doing with coyote hide? Are you concerned about grenade'ing them?

 

[HOOFER]

What are you doing with coyote hide? Are you concerned about grenade'ing them?

I try to utilize things I kill. As best I can.

I ain’t going to eat them…

So I get what I can for them at the fur buyer. 15-70 dollars depending on year. or skin them and brain tan them myself.

I suppose it’s the same reason most folks don’t hunt whitetails in Texas with a 6.5 weatherby. Or 26 nosler. When a 260 or Grendel does just fine.

 

[JR1200W3]

I try to utilize things I kill. As best I can.

I ain’t going to eat them…

So I get what I can for them at the fur buyer. 15-70 dollars depending on year. or skin them and brain tan them myself.

I suppose it’s the same reason most folks don’t hunt whitetails in Texas with a 6.5 weatherby. Or 26 nosler. When a 260 or Grendel does just fine.

I agree with the whitetail statement. I've downgraded my cartridge significantly over the years to a lower BC bonded or all copper bullet that runs about 2700-2800fps. Anything faster just blows shit up too much.