.22 creedmoor

[moore_man]

Started building my new .22 creedmoor. (.224/6.5 creedmoor)

I had the pleasure of Dave kiff at Pacific Tool and Gauge build me up a finish reamer and full length die reamer for a .22 creedmoor. The main objective was to shoot the 90grn bullets at a respectable velocity and use it in various types of match style shoots/competitions as well as a hunting rig. According to Berger's 90.0 grn Ballistic Coefficient (
.551), velocity running around 3100fps-3200fps and a modern match grade case geometry to boot, the .22 creedmoor became a very intriguing cartridge. After running the numbers everything shows that it does very well in both trajectory and kinetic energy not to mention very little recoil.

Here is an example of the .22 creed against the parent 6.5 creed. Using the 6.5 and a 130grn berger running 2800 FPS drops about 8.0 mils vertically with a 100yrd zero and 1.7 mils horizontally in a 10mph cross wind with 734 ft-lbf @ 1k according to strelok ballistics . Under the same conditions the .22 creed with a 90.grn berger running 3100fps drops 6.1 mils vertically , 1.45 mils horizontally and has 676 ft-lbf on impact.

So far for testing purposes I have acquired the following... Remington M700 SA, PTG lug, Bartlien 7.7 twist varminter barrel finished at 26", jewel trigger, Custom K.B Precision Scope rail, H-S police Stock skim bedded and PTG BDL bottom metal. Started the build and should be ready for load testing over the weekend.

.22 creedmoor left and 6.5 creedmoor right
View attachment 19762finishing the FL sizing die
PTG removable pilot reamer
a look into the FL die

 

[long range newbie]

sounds like a shooter can we also get pics of all the parts, and some performance updates soon as you get it shooting .

 

[moore_man]

Here is a print of the reamer specs.

 

[moore_man]

I will post pics as I build Sir

 

[moore_man]

Here are a couple pictures of the build so far. Chambering and crown work still need to be done.

 

[PowerstrokeOBX]

.22 creedmoor

.22CM looks interesting... The only downside for comps is you might not have enough energy to "flash" targets. Or kick up enough dirt to spot misses. I'm probably wrong though.

It has 160 less FPE than 105 at same speed.

 

[long range newbie]

advantage is shoot it all day and shoulder will be fine, bullets are cheap, high bc and cool factor

 

[The_FNG]

Started building my new .22 creedmoor. (.224/6.5 creedmoor)
Here is an example of the .22 creed against the parent 6.5 creed. Using the 6.5 and a 130grn berger running 2800 FPS drops about 8.0 mils vertically with a 100yrd zero and 1.7 mils horizontally in a 10mph cross wind with 734 ft-lbf according to strelok ballistics . Under the same conditions the .22 creed with a 90.grn berger running 3100fps drops 6.1 mils vertically , 1.45 mils horizontally and has 676 ft-lbf on impact.

At what distance is this?

 

[Saito]

Most, if not all, of the comps I've shot this year had 6mm as the minimum caliber. Other than that, it looks pretty awesome ! I best get rolling on my .22-250 AI now

 

[moore_man]

distances for comparison was 1000yrds with 100yrd zero's.
sorry for leaving that important info out

 

[moore_man]

".22CM looks interesting... The only downside for comps is you might not have enough energy to "flash" targets. Or kick up enough dirt to spot misses. I'm probably wrong though.

It has 160 less FPE than 105 at same speed. "

After running the ballistics the .22 creedmoor hangs just behind the 6.5 with a 130grn at 2800 which is what I shoot and seems to be common speed.
here is a look at energy @ 600 yrds under the same conditions
6.5 with 130 berger @ 2800 =1180 ft-lbf (strelok)
.22 with a 90 berger @ 3100 = 1058 ft-lbf (strelok)

 

[moore_man]

looking at just trajectory, its an awesome candidate for paper punching to say the least. I can see it being great for high power use, benchrest use, f-class use and for deer size game and under. For the folks looking for a great AR round or a light hunting rig...this will surly accommodate. You get less case stretching compared to the 22-250, good uniform burning plus some extra velocity over it. For guys like me with a couple 6.5 creedmoors and lots of brass, its an easy change

 

[The_FNG]

Looks the goods for sure, PT&G have no problem sending out the reamer to anyone?

 

[moore_man]

probably not. looks like GA Precision did the same thing. I wonder who did it first lol. There's nothing new under the sun as my father says. Next is to slightly modify the case. Got another reamer coming soon slightly different which increased powder capacity some more. Let the testing begin

 

[6.5 Shaggy]

I run a 22 PDK, which is a 6.8 spc blown to 30 degree shoulder and necked to.224. I run 80gr Amaxs at 3130 fps with 29 grains of powder from a 23 inch barrel and can easily spot hits at 1000yds on steel with a 10x scope. I think your velocities should exceed mine by far and hits should be very easy well beyond 1K. I have ran mine to 1164yds and although I saw no splash (tall grass and shadows) the "plink" was very audible, and the group was only slightly over 1 MOA. I believe you as well as the rest of us will be more than impressed with you findings. Keep us posted.

 

[KYS]

You will be running this cartridge a lot slower then what it was intended for if you go into a match. Most are capped under 3200 fps. This caliber can easily achieve 3400 with a 75gr amax. I hope accuracy does not suffer when the velocity changes.

What twist did you choose?

 

[KYS]

probably not. looks like GA Precision did the same thing. I wonder who did it first lol. There's nothing new under the sun as my father says. Next is to slightly modify the case. Got another reamer coming soon slightly different which increased powder capacity some more. Let the testing begin

GAP built my 22CM almost a year and a half ago….. they must have had our reamer print on file.

 

[BoilerUP]

Why a 7.7 twist if 90gr VLDs are your fodder?

Shooter sez at 500' ASL, 59F, 29.92Hg that a 90gr VLD @ 3100fps has a stability factor of 1.16.

 

[moore_man]

the 7.7 twist was the fastest twist I could find ready to buy (1:7 Krieger on the way). It may not show great stability past 600 but I figured I would get a handle on round count, velocity and accuracy. Although the books say 1:7/1:6.5 twist for the bigger bullets I didn't feel too handicapped seeing that it was going to be a test gun and I wouldn't be over spinning the smaller bullets like the 69-82grn too bad. The 3100 fps was chosen just for competition use here locally. Rules are no faster than 3100 or 3150 and nothing bigger than .30 cal. I know looking at case capacity between the 22-250, 220 swift and 22-250 AI, the .22 CM would be more like 3250 maxed, maybe just maybe 3300fps. I figured if I was to stay on the lower side of what is still great velocity and shoot the biggest bullet, I would see better barrel and case life.

Does pressure or velocity have the most effect on accuracy? If its pressure I could keep the barrel on the shorter side maxing out velocity around 3100 but the operating pressure wont decrease

 

[moore_man]

GAP built my 22CM almost a year and a half ago….. they must have had our reamer print on file.

Does the picture of the print I posted match your dimensions?

 

[6brshooter]

Sounds and looks good, as long as ur barrel likes that bullet and shoots accurate at that speed. My 6.5 cm sends 140 hybrids@2840.

 

[KYS]

Does the picture of the print I posted match your dimensions?

GAP has the reamer designs since he came up with it. I have never seen the reamer. I only saw the dummy rounds it took to base the reamer off.

 

[moore_man]

Sounds and looks good, as long as ur barrel likes that bullet and shoots accurate at that speed. My 6.5 cm sends 140 hybrids@2840.

140 doing 2840? are you using slower powder and a long barrel? I maxed the 130grn just under 2900 (24" barrel) before I started to get flat primers. After about 3 or 4 firings I can feel the primer pockets getting looser as well.

 

[moore_man]

GAP has the reamer designs since he came up with it. I have never seen the reamer. I only saw the dummy rounds it took to base the reamer off.

I wonder if his free bore is the same as well as the lead angle.

 

[moore_man]

already to fire.

 

[SUIScide]

So how much more powder capacity in this than the 22-250? I know there is a lot of discussion of short barrel life in fast twist 22-250, why no discussion of this with this creedmore wildcat?

 

[triceratops3]

So how much more powder capacity in this than the 22-250? I know there is a lot of discussion of short barrel life in fast twist 22-250, why no discussion of this with this creedmore wildcat?

Can't answer the question about powder capacity. No where near an expert on the subject, but according to what I've read on the other threads about this, KYS is upto 1300 rounds on his 22 Creed and is seeing no signs of wear and estimates around .243 barrel life. The reason behind the relatively long barrel life on an overbore cartridge is that it's running at pretty low pressures compared to similar cartridges.

 

[customones]

I built a 22x47 lapua two years ago and was running a 80 grain vld comfortably at 3400 with 38.2 grains of H 4350. I would imagine if you stepped on the cm it would get you to the 3300 mark with the 90 grain vld.

 

[6brshooter]

26" brux, 43.0 gr h4350. Primer edges still have slight radius to them. i get 8-12 reloads on the brass. Verified velocity with actual drops out to 1250 yds. I had a 24" ar10 that sent 123 amax at 2925, also confirmed with drops to 1 k.

 

[moore_man]

So how much more powder capacity in this than the 22-250? I know there is a lot of discussion of short barrel life in fast twist 22-250, why no discussion of this with this creedmore wildcat?

This is according to Chuck Hawks on the following case capacities

.22-250 Remington (W-W): 44.6 grains
223 WSSM (W-W): 55.0 grains
243 WSSM (W-W): 53.0 grains

Now according the Wiki the 6.5 creedmoor is 53.0 grns H2o

All that aside I'm not exactly sure how correct the info is.

I'm hoping less powder, more velocity at lower pressures.

 

[KYS]

This is according to Chuck Hawks on the following case capacities

.22-250 Remington (W-W): 44.6 grains
223 WSSM (W-W): 55.0 grains
243 WSSM (W-W): 53.0 grains

Now according the Wiki the 6.5 creedmoor is 53.0 grns H2o

All that aside I'm not exactly sure how correct the info is.

I'm hoping less powder, more velocity at lower pressures.

We finally have someone that gets it!!! Good work!

 

[eldiablo]

Maybe I missed it, but where are guys getting the dies?

 

[Pusher591]

".22CM looks interesting... The only downside for comps is you might not have enough energy to "flash" targets. Or kick up enough dirt to spot misses. I'm probably wrong though.

It has 160 less FPE than 105 at same speed. "

After running the ballistics the .22 creedmoor hangs just behind the 6.5 with a 130grn at 2800 which is what I shoot and seems to be common speed.
here is a look at energy @ 600 yrds under the same conditions
6.5 with 130 berger @ 2800 =1180 ft-lbf (strelok)
.22 with a 90 berger @ 3100 = 1058 ft-lbf (strelok)

The only problem I see with that is your selling the 6.5 short with those numbers. That velocity is more in line with shooting the 140's which, depending if you shoot the 140 Amax's or the 140 Bergers or Hybrids your gonna have a BC of .585-.618 (compared to the 130 VLD's .552 BC) which should change those numbers up a good bit.

If your going to stick with comparing the 130 Bergers should probably up the velocity a good 130-140 fps.


** Just saw above, you say that's what you get out of your 6.5 setup. Just curious what your load is and your barrel length. If you run a standard 22"-26" aftermarket barrel, your probably leaving a lot of performance on the table with those 130's. My soft load out of my old 21" barrel was seeing 2830-2840fps with the 130's and the hot loads with the 130's were seeing 2920

 

[moore_man]

Maybe I missed it, but where are guys getting the dies?

I made mine. I have a FL die reamer to produce my own dies.

 

[moore_man]

The only problem I see with that is your selling the 6.5 short with those numbers. That velocity is more in line with shooting the 140's which, depending if you shoot the 140 Amax's or the 140 Bergers or Hybrids your gonna have a BC of .585-.618 (compared to the 130 VLD's .552 BC) which should change those numbers up a good bit.

If your going to stick with comparing the 130 Bergers should probably up the velocity a good 130-140 fps.


** Just saw above, you say that's what you get out of your 6.5 setup. Just curious what your load is and your barrel length. If you run a standard 22"-26" aftermarket barrel, your probably leaving a lot of performance on the table with those 130's. My soft load out of my old 21" barrel was seeing 2830-2840fps with the 130's and the hot loads with the 130's were seeing 2920

I use a 24" Krieger 1:8 running 38.0grns of Varget over a 130 Berger VLD at 2850. My 18" version runs the same load at 2717. The velocities stated above come right from the Berger book. Not that people don't go faster because we all know they do. It was a comparison of book data to book data if you will.

 

[steve123]

C'mon moore_man, AZPRC is next weekend and I wanna take a few pops out of your 22Creed.

I'm even bringing the Oehler Chronogragh for you.

 

[skeetlee]

tell me about your 3 jaw chuck? Is it a set true? Ive never seen anyone barrel in a standard 3 jaw, dies also. Lee

 

[BERTMAN77MK2]

Who has the highest round count on a premium barrel thus far?
Am interested in this round for a bolt gun varmint rifle and a .22/Grendel
variation in an AR15 varmint rifle

 

[moore_man]

Got some groups to show as well as some velocities. The top picture is shown with 77grn SMK at 3450 and picture below is shown with the 80grn Amax at 3450

 

[moore_man]

Left to Right. 80grn Amax @3490, 90grn SMk @ 3000 and 80grn SMK @ 3440.

 

[moore_man]

So far this .22 creedmoor is every bit comparable to the .223 WSSM and then some. I have been achieving book velocities with slightly less powder than the .223 WSSM according to the berger and hornady manuals.

 

[moore_man]

Who has the highest round count on a premium barrel thus far?
Am interested in this round for a bolt gun varmint rifle and a .22/Grendel
variation in an AR15 varmint rifle

KYS I think. He has a write up as well on the .22 creed

 

[BGE541]

Tag

 

[texote]

moore man

pm sent

 

[hunter67wa]

Why did you go with a 30 Degree shoulder and not say a 35?

p.s. Im' shooting 140Berger VLD at chrono 2769 H4350. Corrected to 2900 per 900y target shooting 1/2 minute at 900y.

 

[moore_man]

Why did you go with a 30 Degree shoulder and not say a 35?

p.s. Im' shooting 140Berger VLD at chrono 2769 H4350. Corrected to 2900 per 900y target shooting 1/2 minute at 900y.

I wanted to alter as little as I could of the parent case and still achieve what the 22-250 couldn't. I looked at going with a 35Deg shoulder and shortening the neck length some but just not sure if there's a point to. For me it was very easy to take 6.5 creedmoor brass and strait neck them down and run with it. How many firing do you get out of your brass?

 

[hunter67wa]

I hear ya on ease of making brass. I was just curious. A couple of us were driving to a place to LR shoot and we thought it would be fun take make a 22 CM. When I got online to research it I seen your post. We are ordering the reamer from PT&D and am going to run with it. Have you shot the 90g Bergers? What do you think is going to be your go to bullet weight?

I am on my 5th reload on my brass and still tight pockets. Got to love the CM.

 

[KYS]

I hear ya on ease of making brass. I was just curious. A couple of us were driving to a place to LR shoot and we thought it would be fun take make a 22 CM. When I got online to research it I seen your post. We are ordering the reamer from PT&D and am going to run with it. Have you shot the 90g Bergers? What do you think is going to be your go to bullet weight?

I am on my 5th reload on my brass and still tight pockets. Got to love the CM.

I have tested 5 different bullets. With my barrel twist rate I found that accuracy is not great with anything less then a 70gr bullet and no heavier then 80gr. My favorite load is the 75gr amax. It's been the most consistent across the board. I did have success with 62gr solids. But theta speeds were getting pretty high. Around 3670 fps. I'd say that will kill barrel life pretty fast.


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[OKbow87]

I have tested 5 different bullets. With my barrel twist rate I found that accuracy is not great with anything less then a 70gr bullet and no heavier then 80gr. My favorite load is the 75gr amax. It's been the most consistent across the board. I did have success with 62gr solids. But theta speeds were getting pretty high. Around 3670 fps. I'd say that will kill barrel life pretty fast.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

But I thought you were expecting great barrel life with the same speeds as the other hot rod 22's because of less powder and less pressure. So why would the speed of the 62's kill the barrel life? Speed has nothing to do with it, right?

 

[KYS]

.22 creedmoor

But I thought you were expecting great barrel life with the same speeds as the other hot rod 22's because of less powder and less pressure. So why would the speed of the 62's kill the barrel life? Speed has nothing to do with it, right?

I'll break it down for you again. When you start running bullets that weren't designed for the twist rate we designated you can have a few bad things happen. Bullets will come apart and you heat up your chamber 2 and 3x as fast. Hot chambers = pressure spikes or most call it "cooking a loaded round". That will make the accuracy unpredictable since you are already skirting a fine line between the speed and accuracy node. I'm not a fan of running these calibers to their absolute limit. Same with 6.5 saum, it was designed a certain way for certain results. We accomplished that with the 75gr load with mild powder charges and low pressures.


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