My smith and I are lookin at the possibility of a 220 swift that will shoot 90 grain vld's. I personally think a 7.5 or 8 twist is best at about 24". Can anyone tell me anything about this setup or if you know of anyone who's tried? I'm lookin for maximum distance out of a tiny cartridge. I have no interest in factory anything and only care about using the 90 berger for the bc and sd. It's a light little round that I think could do major damage with the right setup. Please feel free to show me your setup if you have one. I'm lookin at using an AAC Action, krieger barrel cut to magnum contour and fluted, a Manners SL, badger bottom, and aics. I want to make it as light as possible since it don't kick too much.
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Gunsmithing 220 Swift for 90 gr VLD's.
- Thread starter Gunny81
- Start date
Re: 220 Swift for 90 gr VLD's.
I have a swift done with bartline 7.5 and it is an absolute hammer with 75 g a max. Rings the 8x6 gong at 840 almost too easy.
I have a swift done with bartline 7.5 and it is an absolute hammer with 75 g a max. Rings the 8x6 gong at 840 almost too easy.
Re: 220 Swift for 90 gr VLD's.
I recommend a call to Berger to see how many RPM they know those bullets to be good for, and select the appropriate twist based on that. As you know, the 220 can achieve some huge velocity, and it would suck to blow up bullets!
Also consider a 5R to be easier on jackets.
I recommend a call to Berger to see how many RPM they know those bullets to be good for, and select the appropriate twist based on that. As you know, the 220 can achieve some huge velocity, and it would suck to blow up bullets!
Also consider a 5R to be easier on jackets.
Re: 220 Swift for 90 gr VLD's.
I would go with a different case design. 22-250 AI would be much better for barrel life. Because of the Swift's case design, it absolutely destroys barrel throats. If you're not going factory anything a case design with a shoulder of 30-40 degrees and less body taper would be the ticket.
I would go with a different case design. 22-250 AI would be much better for barrel life. Because of the Swift's case design, it absolutely destroys barrel throats. If you're not going factory anything a case design with a shoulder of 30-40 degrees and less body taper would be the ticket.
Re: 220 Swift for 90 gr VLD's.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SagebrushShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would go with a different case design. 22-250 AI would be much better for barrel life. Because of the Swift's case design, it absolutely destroys barrel throats. If you're not going factory anything a case design with a shoulder of 30-40 degrees and less body taper would be the ticket.
</div></div>
That's what I was reading. I shoot a lot of wsm's plus a couple ackley's and the trend seems to be the same. If I wanted max speed out of a 7mm, I would use an STW or Ultra mag. Those are both murder on throats though, not to mention overbore. I can drive a 180vld to an reasonable speed without the throat erosion in a wsm. the swift looks a lot like the stw in regards to shoulder angle. I was initially attracted to the 22-250, until I heard of the increased speed from the swift. It's gonna be one of those trade offs in speed for ballistics in this case too I think. It's kinda like shooting 30 calibers with the 210 vs 240 smks. Sure the BC is the shit in the 240, but in all cartridges, you sacrifice a ton of speed where as the 210 doesn't give up much in ballistics versus the speed gain. I've not shot much .224 cal so I'm trying to be cautious on which chambering I chose. I don't wanna get stuck with an underpowered cartridge that can't take advantage of a higher bc. I've gone by a general rule since I started reloading: Get the lightest bullet with a BC over .500 and run it as close to 3000 fps as possible. It's worked pretty good so far. I feel the 90gr vld in .224 can be an excellent choice for varmints at up to 1K as long as it's driven close to 3k. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SagebrushShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would go with a different case design. 22-250 AI would be much better for barrel life. Because of the Swift's case design, it absolutely destroys barrel throats. If you're not going factory anything a case design with a shoulder of 30-40 degrees and less body taper would be the ticket.
</div></div>
That's what I was reading. I shoot a lot of wsm's plus a couple ackley's and the trend seems to be the same. If I wanted max speed out of a 7mm, I would use an STW or Ultra mag. Those are both murder on throats though, not to mention overbore. I can drive a 180vld to an reasonable speed without the throat erosion in a wsm. the swift looks a lot like the stw in regards to shoulder angle. I was initially attracted to the 22-250, until I heard of the increased speed from the swift. It's gonna be one of those trade offs in speed for ballistics in this case too I think. It's kinda like shooting 30 calibers with the 210 vs 240 smks. Sure the BC is the shit in the 240, but in all cartridges, you sacrifice a ton of speed where as the 210 doesn't give up much in ballistics versus the speed gain. I've not shot much .224 cal so I'm trying to be cautious on which chambering I chose. I don't wanna get stuck with an underpowered cartridge that can't take advantage of a higher bc. I've gone by a general rule since I started reloading: Get the lightest bullet with a BC over .500 and run it as close to 3000 fps as possible. It's worked pretty good so far. I feel the 90gr vld in .224 can be an excellent choice for varmints at up to 1K as long as it's driven close to 3k. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Re: 220 Swift for 90 gr VLD's.
I for the most part stick to a 223/223ai with 75gr and lighter bullets so ignore my question if you wish, but why not a 22-243, or 22-243ai? Depending on the dies for the 243ai you already have, you might be able to just play with the internals and avoid buying a whole new set. And you appear to already be a fan of the 308 case being improved. It also should avoid you being stuck with and "underpowered cartridge" though I am not sure the other two you are considering are really underpowered.
I for the most part stick to a 223/223ai with 75gr and lighter bullets so ignore my question if you wish, but why not a 22-243, or 22-243ai? Depending on the dies for the 243ai you already have, you might be able to just play with the internals and avoid buying a whole new set. And you appear to already be a fan of the 308 case being improved. It also should avoid you being stuck with and "underpowered cartridge" though I am not sure the other two you are considering are really underpowered.
Re: 220 Swift for 90 gr VLD's.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dogmessiah</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I for the most part stick to a 223/223ai with 75gr and lighter bullets so ignore my question if you wish, but why not a 22-243, or 22-243ai? Depending on the dies for the 243ai you already have, you might be able to just play with the internals and avoid buying a whole new set. And you appear to already be a fan of the 308 case being improved. It also should avoid you being stuck with and "underpowered cartridge" though I am not sure the other two you are considering are really underpowered. </div></div>
The .243 ai is bout hot enough with a 115 dtac. I couldn't imagine putting a 90 grainer thru it. I just don't have a .224.. Lol. We've been bored for a number of months now. I saw that .530 somethin or other that berg put out and thought it'll be worth a whirl to make her shoot. I'm gonna get a krieger 8 twist and go for 3300 from the 22-250 ai. I figure kiff has dealt with me enough to understand what I'm lookin for. I'm just hopin i don't gotta long throat it for a way longer coal. I really wanna keep it in a short action.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dogmessiah</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I for the most part stick to a 223/223ai with 75gr and lighter bullets so ignore my question if you wish, but why not a 22-243, or 22-243ai? Depending on the dies for the 243ai you already have, you might be able to just play with the internals and avoid buying a whole new set. And you appear to already be a fan of the 308 case being improved. It also should avoid you being stuck with and "underpowered cartridge" though I am not sure the other two you are considering are really underpowered. </div></div>
The .243 ai is bout hot enough with a 115 dtac. I couldn't imagine putting a 90 grainer thru it. I just don't have a .224.. Lol. We've been bored for a number of months now. I saw that .530 somethin or other that berg put out and thought it'll be worth a whirl to make her shoot. I'm gonna get a krieger 8 twist and go for 3300 from the 22-250 ai. I figure kiff has dealt with me enough to understand what I'm lookin for. I'm just hopin i don't gotta long throat it for a way longer coal. I really wanna keep it in a short action.
Re: 220 Swift for 90 gr VLD's.
We've been chambering more and more 6mm Competition Match cartridges as of late. I'm not much for wildcats anymore as they are typically more work than they tend to be worth.
That being said the 6mm CM seems to be a notable exception. Folks have had a great deal of success with it and the headaches at the bench are minimal.
Not trying to talk you out of your "trident missile swift idea", just wondering what a 6mm CM would do squished down to 22 caliber.
The whole idea behind the 6mm CM is slinging long winded 6mm bullets in excess of 3000fps with H1000 powder. It delivers a long pressure curve and when combined with the fire formed case it is reported to deliver barrel service lifes in excess of 3K rounds.
Performance (as reported by customers) is very good. With a 115G bullet its 8 minutes less elevation than a 6.5 Creedmore loaded with a 140G. It's also about 8 inches less windage in a given condition. These were all done at 1k yards.
the caveat seems to be the required 28" barrel length. It might work with a shorter stick, we've not done one though.
Just another snack for the brain matter.
C.
We've been chambering more and more 6mm Competition Match cartridges as of late. I'm not much for wildcats anymore as they are typically more work than they tend to be worth.
That being said the 6mm CM seems to be a notable exception. Folks have had a great deal of success with it and the headaches at the bench are minimal.
Not trying to talk you out of your "trident missile swift idea", just wondering what a 6mm CM would do squished down to 22 caliber.
The whole idea behind the 6mm CM is slinging long winded 6mm bullets in excess of 3000fps with H1000 powder. It delivers a long pressure curve and when combined with the fire formed case it is reported to deliver barrel service lifes in excess of 3K rounds.
Performance (as reported by customers) is very good. With a 115G bullet its 8 minutes less elevation than a 6.5 Creedmore loaded with a 140G. It's also about 8 inches less windage in a given condition. These were all done at 1k yards.
the caveat seems to be the required 28" barrel length. It might work with a shorter stick, we've not done one though.
Just another snack for the brain matter.
C.
Re: 220 Swift for 90 gr VLD's.
Nice points, Chad.
If you really want to shoot the 22c 90 Bergers I would offer up the 22-284 as another potential solution.
It has good capacity, will give you exceptional speeds that you're looking for, the cases are easy to get in top quality brass, forming them down from 6.5-284 is only 2 steps and a turning operation (reamer dependent obviously) and there's even load data floating around for it in some places. And it doesn't have goofy semi-rimmed brass.
I started a 22-284 project and have brass/dies/reamer but never got around to screwing the barrel on the end. I might some day do it if I don't just sell everything off, but it's a pretty cool caliber.
Nice points, Chad.
If you really want to shoot the 22c 90 Bergers I would offer up the 22-284 as another potential solution.
It has good capacity, will give you exceptional speeds that you're looking for, the cases are easy to get in top quality brass, forming them down from 6.5-284 is only 2 steps and a turning operation (reamer dependent obviously) and there's even load data floating around for it in some places. And it doesn't have goofy semi-rimmed brass.
I started a 22-284 project and have brass/dies/reamer but never got around to screwing the barrel on the end. I might some day do it if I don't just sell everything off, but it's a pretty cool caliber.
Re: 220 Swift for 90 gr VLD's.
I would go with a 22-243. I have one. The gun was a fast twist .220 swift and I swapped it out for the 22-243 barrel. The reason at the time was that I came across a screaming deal on the barrel, but I'm very pleased with the change. The brass(Lapua, of course) is great, and with a 25" barrel, I'm pushing a 75gr AMAX at just over 3650 fps. With the better brass, that your buying anyway for your other guns, you can push the 90grainer just as fast as the Swift with low pressure and no decrease in throat life. Or, turn up the speed. Also, if you use Redding bushing dies for your .243, just swap bushings.
My .02
I would go with a 22-243. I have one. The gun was a fast twist .220 swift and I swapped it out for the 22-243 barrel. The reason at the time was that I came across a screaming deal on the barrel, but I'm very pleased with the change. The brass(Lapua, of course) is great, and with a 25" barrel, I'm pushing a 75gr AMAX at just over 3650 fps. With the better brass, that your buying anyway for your other guns, you can push the 90grainer just as fast as the Swift with low pressure and no decrease in throat life. Or, turn up the speed. Also, if you use Redding bushing dies for your .243, just swap bushings.
My .02
Re: 220 Swift for 90 gr VLD's.
22.243 win is as easy as it gets it for a fast twist 22.
Very similar to the 22.250 AI performance without the fireforming and the 243 catridge feeds better without the hang ups that can occur in the 22.250AI. And as already stated you can use a 243 bushing dies for sizing.
I only have experience shooting the 75 and 80 grain bullets but I imagine the 90s will work well also. The 80s will go 3400 pretty easy.
22.243 win is as easy as it gets it for a fast twist 22.
Very similar to the 22.250 AI performance without the fireforming and the 243 catridge feeds better without the hang ups that can occur in the 22.250AI. And as already stated you can use a 243 bushing dies for sizing.
I only have experience shooting the 75 and 80 grain bullets but I imagine the 90s will work well also. The 80s will go 3400 pretty easy.
Re: 220 Swift for 90 gr VLD's.
Damn you people. I'm reading about 22-243 now. Lol! I really am having trouble not lookin at 6mm stuff though. This is how I ended up with a 243ai and not a 6mm br last time. That's all really good advice guys. You all got me thinkin now. To you guys who shoot the 22-243, how's it treatin ur barrels? What twist ya using for the 90vld? What is the minimum length that you suggest? I've got a 23" on my ackley 243. I figured with close to the same capacity, I'd be lookin at similar barrel length. I honestly wanna make this a tac drivin truck gun. I like the job VJJ had done on the Beiber gun. a short stick I can pack around with up to a 16 power PST or somethin similar seems like it would be great. I think I'm gonna have the barrel turned down to a magnum profile though. I really wanna go light and short.
Damn you people. I'm reading about 22-243 now. Lol! I really am having trouble not lookin at 6mm stuff though. This is how I ended up with a 243ai and not a 6mm br last time. That's all really good advice guys. You all got me thinkin now. To you guys who shoot the 22-243, how's it treatin ur barrels? What twist ya using for the 90vld? What is the minimum length that you suggest? I've got a 23" on my ackley 243. I figured with close to the same capacity, I'd be lookin at similar barrel length. I honestly wanna make this a tac drivin truck gun. I like the job VJJ had done on the Beiber gun. a short stick I can pack around with up to a 16 power PST or somethin similar seems like it would be great. I think I'm gonna have the barrel turned down to a magnum profile though. I really wanna go light and short.
Re: 220 Swift for 90 gr VLD's.
I had a buddy build a 22-6.5x47Lapua rather than a 22-250 Ackley , not sure how it compaires to the Swift as far as case capacity but the brass was awesome , accuracy wasd flawless and it fed great from the mag , he built it specificly to shoot 75g A-max at coyotes and it worked great.
Just another option.
I agree with chad though about going with a 6mm instead , a 243 Ackley shooting a 105gr Berger Hybrid at 3200+fps would shoot super flat and not be nearly as hard on the barrel
I had a buddy build a 22-6.5x47Lapua rather than a 22-250 Ackley , not sure how it compaires to the Swift as far as case capacity but the brass was awesome , accuracy wasd flawless and it fed great from the mag , he built it specificly to shoot 75g A-max at coyotes and it worked great.
Just another option.
I agree with chad though about going with a 6mm instead , a 243 Ackley shooting a 105gr Berger Hybrid at 3200+fps would shoot super flat and not be nearly as hard on the barrel
Re: 220 Swift for 90 gr VLD's.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJones75</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I agree with chad though about going with a 6mm instead , a 243 Ackley shooting a 105gr Berger Hybrid at 3200+fps would shoot super flat and not be nearly as hard on the barrel </div></div>
I'm already shooting a 243 ackley with a 115 dtac at 3200ish. I just don't have a 22 caliber rifle. when I choose a caliber, I like to investigate all the possibilities and try n find the most ballistically superior projectile and cartridge. In .22, I want to shoot the 90 grain vld, 6mm the DTAC, I hate 25 cal, in 6.5 it's the 142 smk, 7mags the 180vld or 195 when it comes, 30 cal is the 210 vld, 338 is the 300 vld or smk. It's kinda funny how 3000fps seems to be the magic number for all of these.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJones75</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I agree with chad though about going with a 6mm instead , a 243 Ackley shooting a 105gr Berger Hybrid at 3200+fps would shoot super flat and not be nearly as hard on the barrel </div></div>
I'm already shooting a 243 ackley with a 115 dtac at 3200ish. I just don't have a 22 caliber rifle. when I choose a caliber, I like to investigate all the possibilities and try n find the most ballistically superior projectile and cartridge. In .22, I want to shoot the 90 grain vld, 6mm the DTAC, I hate 25 cal, in 6.5 it's the 142 smk, 7mags the 180vld or 195 when it comes, 30 cal is the 210 vld, 338 is the 300 vld or smk. It's kinda funny how 3000fps seems to be the magic number for all of these.
Re: 220 Swift for 90 gr VLD's.
I have a 7 twist 27" barreled 22-243AI. I built it with the intention of shooting the 90 grain Bergers exclusively. The set-up can push the 90 grainers to 3300 fps easily. Problem is, only about 2 out of 5 make it to the target at that speed. About 3100 is as fast as you can push them and keep them together. A straight 22-250 or 22-250AI loaded light would be about the perfect case for the 90 grainers. I am now shooting the 80 grain A-Maxes at 3700 from the 22-243AI and haven't looked back.
I have a 7 twist 27" barreled 22-243AI. I built it with the intention of shooting the 90 grain Bergers exclusively. The set-up can push the 90 grainers to 3300 fps easily. Problem is, only about 2 out of 5 make it to the target at that speed. About 3100 is as fast as you can push them and keep them together. A straight 22-250 or 22-250AI loaded light would be about the perfect case for the 90 grainers. I am now shooting the 80 grain A-Maxes at 3700 from the 22-243AI and haven't looked back.
Re: 220 Swift for 90 gr VLD's.
I know, I was looking at the 22-284 in the classified section....Damn gun A.D.D.!
I know, I was looking at the 22-284 in the classified section....Damn gun A.D.D.!
Re: 220 Swift for 90 gr VLD's.
for fucks sake... Has anyone run a 90 grainer out of a 22-250? That's what I was saying earlier. It seems the magic number is 3000fps so that super fast 7 twist doesn't eat up a bullet. My shooter app says the 90 litz vld shot at 3000fps from an 8 twist is traveling 1550ish at 1000. That's flat out as far as I'm wanting to shoot it. It's still hitting with 464 ft/lbs.
for fucks sake... Has anyone run a 90 grainer out of a 22-250? That's what I was saying earlier. It seems the magic number is 3000fps so that super fast 7 twist doesn't eat up a bullet. My shooter app says the 90 litz vld shot at 3000fps from an 8 twist is traveling 1550ish at 1000. That's flat out as far as I'm wanting to shoot it. It's still hitting with 464 ft/lbs.
Re: 220 Swift for 90 gr VLD's.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C. Dixon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We've been chambering more and more 6mm Competition Match cartridges as of late. I'm not much for wildcats anymore as they are typically more work than they tend to be worth.
That being said the 6mm CM seems to be a notable exception. Folks have had a great deal of success with it and the headaches at the bench are minimal.
Not trying to talk you out of your "trident missile swift idea", just wondering what a 6mm CM would do squished down to 22 caliber.
The whole idea behind the 6mm CM is slinging long winded 6mm bullets in excess of 3000fps with H1000 powder. It delivers a long pressure curve and when combined with the fire formed case it is reported to deliver barrel service lifes in excess of 3K rounds.
Performance (as reported by customers) is very good. With a 115G bullet its 8 minutes less elevation than a 6.5 Creedmore loaded with a 140G. It's also about 8 inches less windage in a given condition. These were all done at 1k yards.
the caveat seems to be the required 28" barrel length. It might work with a shorter stick, we've not done one though.
Just another snack for the brain matter.
C. </div></div>
I'm shooting 105 Berger Hybrids out of a 23" gas gun doing 3k. And it runs like a top! So the 28" barrel chatter is just not 100% accurate.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C. Dixon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We've been chambering more and more 6mm Competition Match cartridges as of late. I'm not much for wildcats anymore as they are typically more work than they tend to be worth.
That being said the 6mm CM seems to be a notable exception. Folks have had a great deal of success with it and the headaches at the bench are minimal.
Not trying to talk you out of your "trident missile swift idea", just wondering what a 6mm CM would do squished down to 22 caliber.
The whole idea behind the 6mm CM is slinging long winded 6mm bullets in excess of 3000fps with H1000 powder. It delivers a long pressure curve and when combined with the fire formed case it is reported to deliver barrel service lifes in excess of 3K rounds.
Performance (as reported by customers) is very good. With a 115G bullet its 8 minutes less elevation than a 6.5 Creedmore loaded with a 140G. It's also about 8 inches less windage in a given condition. These were all done at 1k yards.
the caveat seems to be the required 28" barrel length. It might work with a shorter stick, we've not done one though.
Just another snack for the brain matter.
C. </div></div>
I'm shooting 105 Berger Hybrids out of a 23" gas gun doing 3k. And it runs like a top! So the 28" barrel chatter is just not 100% accurate.
Re: 220 Swift for 90 gr VLD's.
Im waiting on Bartlein to finish up my gain twist barrels right now. I am going to point and load the 90gr Bergers in a 22-250 case. Hope to get some good speed out of it in the 3200-3300 range. When they come in and Copper Creek gets my test loads to me, I will see what it can do.
Im waiting on Bartlein to finish up my gain twist barrels right now. I am going to point and load the 90gr Bergers in a 22-250 case. Hope to get some good speed out of it in the 3200-3300 range. When they come in and Copper Creek gets my test loads to me, I will see what it can do.
Re: 220 Swift for 90 gr VLD's.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunny81</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJones75</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I agree with chad though about going with a 6mm instead , a 243 Ackley shooting a 105gr Berger Hybrid at 3200+fps would shoot super flat and not be nearly as hard on the barrel </div></div>
I'm already shooting a 243 ackley with a 115 dtac at 3200ish. I just don't have a 22 caliber rifle. when I choose a caliber, I like to investigate all the possibilities and try n find the most ballistically superior projectile and cartridge. In .22, I want to shoot the 90 grain vld, 6mm the DTAC, I hate 25 cal, in 6.5 it's the 142 smk, 7mags the 180vld or 195 when it comes, 30 cal is the 210 vld, 338 is the 300 vld or smk. It's kinda funny how 3000fps seems to be the magic number for all of these. </div></div>
If you are wanting to shoot ballistically superior bullets in the calibers you listed... you are not choosing the correct bullets IMO.
6mm - The 105gr Berger Hybrid, pointed and BN coated smokes the 115 DTAC. Flatter shooting and cuts the wind better.
6.5mm - again, the 140gr Berger Hybrid pointed and coated smokes about everything else out there. 2900 is easy, as well as the hits @ 1k.
7mm - same thing, the Berger 180gr Hybrid, pointed and coated just hammers out to 1400y for me.
The pointing process really changes the overall BC by 10%. That is huge and the fact that the 115 DTAC comes pointed and the Berger still crushes it is insane.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunny81</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJones75</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I agree with chad though about going with a 6mm instead , a 243 Ackley shooting a 105gr Berger Hybrid at 3200+fps would shoot super flat and not be nearly as hard on the barrel </div></div>
I'm already shooting a 243 ackley with a 115 dtac at 3200ish. I just don't have a 22 caliber rifle. when I choose a caliber, I like to investigate all the possibilities and try n find the most ballistically superior projectile and cartridge. In .22, I want to shoot the 90 grain vld, 6mm the DTAC, I hate 25 cal, in 6.5 it's the 142 smk, 7mags the 180vld or 195 when it comes, 30 cal is the 210 vld, 338 is the 300 vld or smk. It's kinda funny how 3000fps seems to be the magic number for all of these. </div></div>
If you are wanting to shoot ballistically superior bullets in the calibers you listed... you are not choosing the correct bullets IMO.
6mm - The 105gr Berger Hybrid, pointed and BN coated smokes the 115 DTAC. Flatter shooting and cuts the wind better.
6.5mm - again, the 140gr Berger Hybrid pointed and coated smokes about everything else out there. 2900 is easy, as well as the hits @ 1k.
7mm - same thing, the Berger 180gr Hybrid, pointed and coated just hammers out to 1400y for me.
The pointing process really changes the overall BC by 10%. That is huge and the fact that the 115 DTAC comes pointed and the Berger still crushes it is insane.
Re: 220 Swift for 90 gr VLD's.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunny81</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJones75</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I agree with chad though about going with a 6mm instead , a 243 Ackley shooting a 105gr Berger Hybrid at 3200+fps would shoot super flat and not be nearly as hard on the barrel </div></div>
I'm already shooting a 243 ackley with a 115 dtac at 3200ish. I just don't have a 22 caliber rifle. when I choose a caliber, I like to investigate all the possibilities and try n find the most ballistically superior projectile and cartridge. In .22, I want to shoot the 90 grain vld, 6mm the DTAC, I hate 25 cal, in 6.5 it's the 142 smk, 7mags the 180vld or 195 when it comes, 30 cal is the 210 vld, 338 is the 300 vld or smk. It's kinda funny how 3000fps seems to be the magic number for all of these. </div></div>
If you are wanting to shoot ballistically superior bullets in the calibers you listed... you are not choosing the correct bullets IMO.
6mm - The 105gr Berger Hybrid, pointed and BN coated smokes the 115 DTAC. Flatter shooting and cuts the wind better.
6.5mm - again, the 140gr Berger Hybrid pointed and coated smokes about everything else out there. 2900 is easy, as well as the hits @ 1k.
7mm - same thing, the Berger 180gr Hybrid, pointed and coated just hammers out to 1400y for me.
The pointing process really changes the overall BC by 10%. That is huge and the fact that the 115 DTAC comes pointed and the Berger still crushes it is insane. </div></div>
The bullets listed aren't the exact ones I use. Just an approximate weight. I tend to choose whichever will shoot best from my rifles at speeds that achieve the most accuracy. I don't always run 3000fps. I can't with a 300 in my lapua. But just to see I did the LMI. Bullets that are higher than .530 or so tend to act a little differently when speed is added than say a bullet with a bc of .612 or higher. Speed is sometimes detrimental to accuracy when the harmonics are thrown out of whack because of it. That all goes back to barrel stiffness, too fast of a twist for certain speeds and so on. I've only shot to a mile with my better 7's and the 338's. Those are the only ones I trust to get there consistently. When I do go for that god awful distance, I use the 180 hybrid and 168vld in my 7's. In the 338's I use the 300smk, 300 berger hybrid, and the hornady 285. To me there's no difference in the 3 because I'm achieving similar velocities and getting the same results with all three. I can't do any better than 10 inches or so 5 shot group at a mile anyway so I don't do it much. Back to the task on hand. I've done some more reading from the guys who shoot similar guns in oklahoma at prairie rats. They're pushing the 90gr out of an 8 twist at about 3k and achieving reasonable pressure, extreme accuracy, and great barrel life from a regular 22-250 throated for the 90. It looks like y'all have all been an extreme help though. Lots of great knowledge that all of y'all are helping with. That's why I love this site. Between all of the guys here, there's an extreme wealth of knowledge and a guy can juggle some ideas in his head and help make a reasonable decision. Thanks again guys..
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunny81</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJones75</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I agree with chad though about going with a 6mm instead , a 243 Ackley shooting a 105gr Berger Hybrid at 3200+fps would shoot super flat and not be nearly as hard on the barrel </div></div>
I'm already shooting a 243 ackley with a 115 dtac at 3200ish. I just don't have a 22 caliber rifle. when I choose a caliber, I like to investigate all the possibilities and try n find the most ballistically superior projectile and cartridge. In .22, I want to shoot the 90 grain vld, 6mm the DTAC, I hate 25 cal, in 6.5 it's the 142 smk, 7mags the 180vld or 195 when it comes, 30 cal is the 210 vld, 338 is the 300 vld or smk. It's kinda funny how 3000fps seems to be the magic number for all of these. </div></div>
If you are wanting to shoot ballistically superior bullets in the calibers you listed... you are not choosing the correct bullets IMO.
6mm - The 105gr Berger Hybrid, pointed and BN coated smokes the 115 DTAC. Flatter shooting and cuts the wind better.
6.5mm - again, the 140gr Berger Hybrid pointed and coated smokes about everything else out there. 2900 is easy, as well as the hits @ 1k.
7mm - same thing, the Berger 180gr Hybrid, pointed and coated just hammers out to 1400y for me.
The pointing process really changes the overall BC by 10%. That is huge and the fact that the 115 DTAC comes pointed and the Berger still crushes it is insane. </div></div>
The bullets listed aren't the exact ones I use. Just an approximate weight. I tend to choose whichever will shoot best from my rifles at speeds that achieve the most accuracy. I don't always run 3000fps. I can't with a 300 in my lapua. But just to see I did the LMI. Bullets that are higher than .530 or so tend to act a little differently when speed is added than say a bullet with a bc of .612 or higher. Speed is sometimes detrimental to accuracy when the harmonics are thrown out of whack because of it. That all goes back to barrel stiffness, too fast of a twist for certain speeds and so on. I've only shot to a mile with my better 7's and the 338's. Those are the only ones I trust to get there consistently. When I do go for that god awful distance, I use the 180 hybrid and 168vld in my 7's. In the 338's I use the 300smk, 300 berger hybrid, and the hornady 285. To me there's no difference in the 3 because I'm achieving similar velocities and getting the same results with all three. I can't do any better than 10 inches or so 5 shot group at a mile anyway so I don't do it much. Back to the task on hand. I've done some more reading from the guys who shoot similar guns in oklahoma at prairie rats. They're pushing the 90gr out of an 8 twist at about 3k and achieving reasonable pressure, extreme accuracy, and great barrel life from a regular 22-250 throated for the 90. It looks like y'all have all been an extreme help though. Lots of great knowledge that all of y'all are helping with. That's why I love this site. Between all of the guys here, there's an extreme wealth of knowledge and a guy can juggle some ideas in his head and help make a reasonable decision. Thanks again guys..
Hey gunny I'm curious did you ever get anything built? Iv been thinking bout settin up something in 6mm untill I started lookin more into the ballistics of the 90's in somethin like a 22-250. Seems like it would work out pretty good but I was wanting some first hand info. If you did end up setting the gun up how you were talking about, did the 1:8 end up being fast enough? And how has barrel life been
I built a 22-6mm IMP, wanted something a little different. Gun shoots well and I love it, that being said the 22-250 or 22-250 IMP is one hell of an accurate cartridge and IMHO will out shoot the swift every time.
Korykhunter Are you using heavier bullets and what twist. I have a 22-250 that i really like but at 1:12 I'm stuck with around 55gr. I decided I wanted to build something in 6mm and shoot 105-115s to get the distance and still keep recoil to a minimum since my 300 saum is just enough that if I shoot it a lot I get a little flinchy (never have been great with recoil). Somehow during trying to decide which 6 to go with I ran some numbers on the 22-250 with 90s and the 6xc and 6-284 with 115s and realized velocities and drops at 1000 yards were almost identical with the 6mm cartridges obviously having a bit more energy. Since I already have all the reloading components for 22-250 I was leaning that way but didn't know how easy it was to get the heavy .22s to shoot. Iv read up a little and noticed some people say you need at least a 7 twist and a 6.5 is better to stabilize them but then others say over 8 will deform or destroy the bullets. Any info will help. I'm just tryin to figure out what's the best route before I'm stuck tryin to make something work. Thanks in advance.
Iv heard their hell on barrels and between that and me already having dies and brass for 22-250 an extra 100-150 fps didn't seem worth it since im not trying to push it as fast as possible but is there something about the case design that would allow it to more easily or accurately shoot heavies?
We have used the fast twist 22s quite a bit out on the prairie dog towns as well as steel out to 1200yds. Only one that caused trouble was a 22-6mm imp with a 7 twist. After about 300 shots it started taking apart the 75gr A Max. The 22-204 is a real pleasure, 75 A Max at 3050 will take prairie dogs past 1000yds and really make hay in the 700 to 9oo yd range. Next is the 22BR with about 200 fps more velocity = less come up and windage, plus being mild and Lapua brass. Held the 22-6mm imp reamer back and formed 243 brass to match. Actually is nothing but the 22-250 imp with a long neck, this adds about 300 fps to the 22BR while burning 5 to 7 more grains of powder. All of these plus a standard 22-250 are throated to put the base of the AMax inside the neck. All are very accurate and easy to tune. Dale
How about the 20-250 or 22 creedmoor? Talking with Scott at Specialized dynamics, he says the newest creedmoor is going to be pretty good on the barrels too. Thinking about rebarreling my shot out 22-250 to the creed.
Cheers,
Breeze
Cheers,
Breeze
I am running 80gr Amax at 3320. I'm still fireforming and best groups are under 1/2 at 100yds. My rifle is a custom build, Stoll Kodiak action, Krieger 1in8 twist barrel, Jewel trigger(set at 2lbs, I use this as a hunting rig) and a Nightforce 12-42x56 scope. This round is hell on yotes. My fireforming load is 47gr N165 behind 80gr Amax with 210M primer. This seems to be a high midrange pressure load, I will push them a little harder after fireforming. Hornady lists load info for the 22-6mm. My rifle is IMP but Hornady is where I got my starting info.
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Dale, were all of the other guns that didn't give you issues 1:7 also and the 22-6mm imp just happened to be a fluke? or were the other guns slower twists and it would seem that the 1:7 is too fast for the 75s? Also did you do any shooting or load work with anything heavier such as the 90s?
Southbreeze, I'm not really interested in any .20 cals iv already got a 22-250 that I can load light and want something with a little more energy but that can also get out to 1000 or just past and that's why I was looking at the 90s. It seems like everyone is mostly shooting the 75-80s so maby I'm wasting my time looking into the heavier .22 bullets and that's what I'm trying to figure out and weigh against stepping up to a hotter 6mm but I have recently looked into the 22 creed and it looks good especially since brass wouldn't be too pricy, I'm trying to keep a budget which had me leaning towards the 22-250 which I already have dies and plenty of brass for and new brass is plentiful and cheap. I guess what I'm really looking for is if the 90s can be consistently and reliably shot out of a 22-250 at 3000-3100+ And still stabilize and not break up and at what barrel length and twist rate would that be most possible. Or if it would be easier from a different cartridge what would be the most economical route keeping in mind I do not want to fire form brass(iv noticed that 22-243 seems to be a decent option here)? If it's going to be a hit/miss thing weather the 90s will stabilize in a particular barrel I would probable end up going with something in 6mm
Southbreeze, I'm not really interested in any .20 cals iv already got a 22-250 that I can load light and want something with a little more energy but that can also get out to 1000 or just past and that's why I was looking at the 90s. It seems like everyone is mostly shooting the 75-80s so maby I'm wasting my time looking into the heavier .22 bullets and that's what I'm trying to figure out and weigh against stepping up to a hotter 6mm but I have recently looked into the 22 creed and it looks good especially since brass wouldn't be too pricy, I'm trying to keep a budget which had me leaning towards the 22-250 which I already have dies and plenty of brass for and new brass is plentiful and cheap. I guess what I'm really looking for is if the 90s can be consistently and reliably shot out of a 22-250 at 3000-3100+ And still stabilize and not break up and at what barrel length and twist rate would that be most possible. Or if it would be easier from a different cartridge what would be the most economical route keeping in mind I do not want to fire form brass(iv noticed that 22-243 seems to be a decent option here)? If it's going to be a hit/miss thing weather the 90s will stabilize in a particular barrel I would probable end up going with something in 6mm
And thanks to everyone for the info it really is all appreciated. Even if it's not what iv got planned I'm all ears, there's tons of experience here and I like seeing what works and what doesn't from people that have been there and tried it
I was a little curious myself and checked the numbers on a 22-250 and the 90gr. Looked at Sierra, Hornady and Berger manuals and 90gr bullets. Berger recommends 1in7 for their VLD the other two do not list a 90gr. I ran the numbers in a Barrel Twist Calculator and it recommends a 1in7.7 for a 90gr at 3050fps(max fps in manuals for the 22-250 w/90gr). The Sierra manual lists loads for 22-250IMP and 90gr up to 3300fps at this speed the Barrel Twist Calculator recommends 1in8. Keep in mind these #s are from "BOOKS" not real life experience. When I did my build my smith talked to a few barrel makers and assured me a 1in8 would shoot 90s. As I said earlier I'm still fireforming and will work up a 90gr load when we lose a little snow. I've seen the 80gr Amax in a 223 go to 800 with ease, your 22-250 with an 80 or 90 will have no problem with 1000.
A few years ago Ross Seyfried had an article in the American Rifleman, (January 2008) about a 6mm Remington necked down to .22. He was shooting 80 grain Match Kings in an 8 twist barrel and doing some amazing stuff. He used bushing dies, Redding I think, and just used a .22 size bushing in a 6mm Remington die. Easy. I think PTG had the reamer.
This would be the easiest way to go fast. No custom dies just a reamer and you're shooting.
Deja vu: http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/snipers-hide-bolt-action-rifles/90253-22-6mm.html
This would be the easiest way to go fast. No custom dies just a reamer and you're shooting.
Deja vu: http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/snipers-hide-bolt-action-rifles/90253-22-6mm.html
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Korkyhunter,
We are at Disneyworld with the whole tribe so haven't checked in for a few days. The 7 twist 22-6mm imp just went away, we never used any 90s in it but did use 8o gr AMaxes. The barrel is still in use, set back of course and I believe it is in 22BR now and shoots well. Did an 8 twist in 22- 6mm imp that shoots 75 and 80gr AMaxes very well. 75gr Bergers came apart at that speed. With the reamer held back to 22-250 length the Bergers are great. They seem to take up to 3500 fps fine. This is with an 8 twist. It seems with any case you want to use, an 8 twist is plenty and not as touchy on bullets and speed with up to 8ogr bullets. Dale
We are at Disneyworld with the whole tribe so haven't checked in for a few days. The 7 twist 22-6mm imp just went away, we never used any 90s in it but did use 8o gr AMaxes. The barrel is still in use, set back of course and I believe it is in 22BR now and shoots well. Did an 8 twist in 22- 6mm imp that shoots 75 and 80gr AMaxes very well. 75gr Bergers came apart at that speed. With the reamer held back to 22-250 length the Bergers are great. They seem to take up to 3500 fps fine. This is with an 8 twist. It seems with any case you want to use, an 8 twist is plenty and not as touchy on bullets and speed with up to 8ogr bullets. Dale
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