223 and twist - quick question(s)

turbo54

turbo54

Mr. 7mm
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Minuteman
Dec 10, 2010
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#1
I'm going to order a 223 barrel for my Savage.

The intent is to shoot more for less money in terms of bullets, powder and barrel consumption. I'd like to be able to hammer out rounds while training with no fear of burning up my match gun. Also, I intend to take it out to its maximum effective distance for wind reading practice. I suspect the rifle will spend a lot of time between 200-600 yards.

I intend to use the 75 and 80 amaxs. I don't see myself using the 90+ gr specialty .224" bullets, but, I guess it would be nice if I <span style="font-style: italic">could</span>.

Question 1: I can choose 1-7, 1-8 or 1-9 twist. Which should I go with? I'm under the impression 1-8 will handle the 69-80gr bullets nicely, the 1-9 might sqeak out the 75, but that's tops. I'm under the impression the 1-7 is for the 90+ bullets exclusively. Thoughts?

Question 2: I'm considering the concept of getting the ackley barrel. My thought is that standard 223 brass is essentially free. I've got to imagine that fireformed 223AI brass has at least *some* value...so even if I only ever shoot fireforming rounds through the rifle, the brass will actually <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">gain</span></span> value having been used...?? Plus, it seems it would provide a little more horsepower should I desire to use it. I guess what I'm saying is the AI chamber will not present any disadvantage, so it seems like a good call.

What do y'all think?
 
#2
Re: 223 and twist - quick question(s)

I had a similar debate this spring...ended up going with a a 22" 1:7 light varmint contour Criterion in 223AI.

VERY pleased with it so far...80gr A-Max over 26.2gr Varget in Nosler formed brass with CCI-450 goes 2890fps and shoots in the 3s, which is about all I can do as a shooter.

I went with the Ackley to get 26" velocity from a 22" barrel, and the 1:7 because of increased stability factor for the 80gr A-max in cold temperatures along with the ability to sling 90gr VLDs should I want to.

As a bonus, if you're a cheap-ass like me the Lee Collet Die & seater work GREAT for the AI.
 
#3
Re: 223 and twist - quick question(s)

I can only reply to question 1. I shoot 6.5 twist Pac-Nor barrels in all my match guns. It can shoot the 90 grain amax but I shoot match bullets all the way down to 55 grains without issue. 90% of the shooting is 200-600 yards with 80 amax bullets at 600 and 77 grain SMKs or Hornady 75 BTHPs from 200-500.

I wouldn't see a need to go over 1:7 but that's just my experience.

YMMV, Steve
 
#4
Re: 223 and twist - quick question(s)

I would go with a 1-7 twist if possible. I have had the 80 amax, 80 vld, and 80.5 full bore fail to stabilize out of a verified 8 twist.

I am not quite sure about your second question. I can say that my fireforming loads have been extremely accurate, and that the brass generated from them has had great life.
 
#5
Re: 223 and twist - quick question(s)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cegorach</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would go with a 1-7 twist if possible. I have had the 80 amax, 80 vld, and 80.5 full bore fail to stabilize out of a verified 8 twist.

I am not quite sure about your second question. I can say that my fireforming loads have been extremely accurate, and that the brass generated from them has had great life. </div></div>
+1 Hit the nail on the head.
 
#6
Re: 223 and twist - quick question(s)

My 27" barrel (Brux), straight .223 sends 82 Bergers (pointed) at 2900 with 24.4 8208 and a 2.490" oal, in Lake City Brass. The only reason to go ackley is for a shorter barrel. 7-8 twist, and you won't see a difference. Personally, I'm no fan of fire forming, and then losing brass in matches and/or training. My meat gun, however, is a 223ai at 22" that hammers any and all things it hits.

I built my 223 to mirror my 260 match gun, and truth be told, I shoot my 223 better, and with MUCH more frequency. It's fun to shoot, is very accurate, and matches my 260 almost exactly to 1050.

TL/DR: go ackley if you want a shorter barrel, don't if you don't mind a longer barrel. Send 80-ish grain bullets with authority, and laugh as the rest of your rifles sit in the gun safe.
 
#7
Re: 223 and twist - quick question(s)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm going to order a 223 barrel for my Savage.

The intent is to shoot more for less money in terms of bullets, powder and barrel consumption. I'd like to be able to hammer out rounds while training with no fear of burning up my match gun. Also, I intend to take it out to its maximum effective distance for wind reading practice. I suspect the rifle will spend a lot of time between 200-600 yards.

I intend to use the 75 and 80 amaxs. I don't see myself using the 90+ gr specialty .224" bullets, but, I guess it would be nice if I <span style="font-style: italic">could</span>.

What do y'all think? </div></div>

if the intent is for wind read practice and economy why do you plan to use the relatively expensive projectiles mentioned?

your stated goals would be better served with a 1 in 8 or 9 and primarily 55 gr FMJ - they are fine to 600
 
#9
Re: 223 and twist - quick question(s)

Thanks for the replies.

I can't think of any reason not to choose the AI. straight 223 will do 75% of what I need, and it'll be easy to keep a constant flow of 223 brass coming in. Before long, I'll have plenty of 223ai brass for any higher performance shooting I might want to do. I don't think I'll sweat losing it.

I'm curious why no one seems to think the 223ai is a good idea with a longish barrel?

My 1:7.7 krieger AR handles the 80amax well. Sounds like 1:8 is cutting it close for the 80amax...?
 
#10
Re: 223 and twist - quick question(s)

My krieger 7.7 also handles the 75s and 80s very nicely and a similar twist should do well for you out to 600 yards and probably beyond.
 
#12
Re: 223 and twist - quick question(s)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cjmill87</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My krieger 7.7 also handles the 75s and 80s very nicely and a similar twist should do well for you out to 600 yards and probably beyond. </div></div>
Definitely beyond, I have a 20" 7.7 Kreiger as well, and I shoot to 1k quite regularly with it, and have shot as far as 1260 with excellent results. (Minute of Dude)
 
#16
Re: 223 and twist - quick question(s)

Thanks BoilerUP
I didn't realize that. It makes it easier for me to choose the right twist. It will be 7 for my build. But can't decide between 223 and 22-6mm I know the 22-6mm will be a barrel burner, if I load the 90 grain at 3100 to 3200 I should get 1000 to 1200 rounds. Is that possible or am I dreaming.

Thanks,

Jim
 
#17
Re: 223 and twist - quick question(s)

223twistrates.jpeg


Kind of a ballpark chart and not news to you I'm sure.

I've been thinking 223 lately and am tossing around the idea of a 22-204 Ruger.
It has a little more capacity than an AI and you don't need to fire form the brass (!).

Kind of sounds like another cartridge you may have been looking into lately? (7 slr)

Reading a little on it today and it seems you can use a 204 die with a 223 seater. It looks interesting. I do have a 223 AI and they are cute as hell so I don't think the 22-204 would be worth the trouble for me at this point.
 
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