.223 bolt gun accuracy expectations

[fullsemiauto556]

I'm looking at adding a Tikka .223 Varmint at some point down the road, when funds and availability align. I currently have a Noveske 5.56 18" AR that's shooting pretty damn good (IMO) with Norma Match .223 77gr SMK, averaging 0.6 moa at 100 yards. I don't currently reload, but what kind of accuracy (group size) expectations should an average shooter have from a production bolt gun like the Tikka (or around that price range) with a factory barrel using factory ammo that it likes? Better than what I'm capable of with my current "precision" AR?

Thanks in advance.

 

[b6graham]

Factory ammo is gonna be slow and short for a precision bolt 223

Few hundred fps slower than reloads and you'll be jumping a pretty good bit too

Not that they can't shoot 1/2moa but it won't be ideal

 

[srt-4_uk]

 

[fullsemiauto556]

Sounds like I'd just be wasting my time if my plan is to buy a .223 bolt gun and not reload for precision then.

Is anyone having good results with factory ammo? Or is this like the dumbest question on this site?

 

[Mudflap621]

I've got a 223 varmint and it does better than half MOA but with handholds, I've not tried any factory ammo out of it though.

 

[RFutch]

Sounds like I'd just be wasting my time if my plan is to buy a .223 bolt gun and not reload for precision then.

Is anyone having good results with factory ammo? Or is this like the dumbest question on this site?

It’s not that they won’t be accurate. It’s just that they’re pretty anemic compared to hand loads.

 

[st1650]

To me, the whole point of a 223 bolt gun is to load those SMK 80, 75/85 eld-m really really long and lob them at 800-1000 yards for very very little money. To be honest, if all I had was factory ammo, I’d stay with a gas gun and save up maybe for a 6/6.5 creed prefit barrel for a tikka or something.

 

[just browsing]

.223 is a completely different cartridge when hand loaded in a bolt gun with a proper chamber. Even the best factory offerings are no comparison both from a speed and consistency standpoint. Factor in the ability to shoot heavier bullets loaded further out going the same or faster speeds and you quickly approach 6mm territory if desired.

The Tikka will shoot fine just like any other Tikka, but even they are going to somewhat limit you between chamber/FB, 8 twist, and notoriously slow barrels to begin with.

 

[jcmullis2]

About like the difference between iron sights and a scope.

 

[fullsemiauto556]

To me, the whole point of a 223 bolt gun is to load those SMK 80, 75/85 eld-m really really long and lob them at 800-1000 yards for very very little money. To be honest, if all I had was factory ammo, I’d stay with a gas gun and save up maybe for a 6/6.5 creed prefit barrel for a tikka or something.

My normal range I go to only goes out to 300 yards, though different ranges with access to 750 and 1000 yards are about an hour away from me.

I was planning on using my Howa 308 for the 1000 yard attempt and was thinking the .223 would be maybe 5-600 yards.

I guess I haven't really thought this completely through just yet, but I have the bolt action bug pretty bad right now, so here I am.

 

[jcmullis2]

My normal range I go to only goes out to 300 yards, though different ranges with access to 750 and 1000 yards are about an hour away from me.

I was planning on using my Howa 308 for the 1000 yard attempt and was thinking the .223 would be maybe 5-600 yards.

I guess I haven't really thought this completely through just yet, but I have the bolt action bug pretty bad right now, so here I am.

I was into auto loading rifles at first too. However after my first bolt gun I was hooked and that’s all I shoot now. It fits my budget better too with the prices of ammo

 

[RFutch]

My normal range I go to only goes out to 300 yards, though different ranges with access to 750 and 1000 yards are about an hour away from me.

I was planning on using my Howa 308 for the 1000 yard attempt and was thinking the .223 would be maybe 5-600 yards.

I guess I haven't really thought this completely through just yet, but I have the bolt action bug pretty bad right now, so here I am.

As long as you are realistic about the limitations of factory ammo I’d still do it. They are still fun as hell out to 600.

 

[RFutch]

Also if you do get one and want to shoot it at 1000, Nosler loads a 70 RDF from the factory. They’re not cheap but it will at least have the BC to get out there if you have the itch.

 

[flyfisher117]

I adore my Factory Rem 700 SPS Tac .223. 20" 9 twist barrel and it loves 69 SMKs and Hornady 68 HPBT pushed at 2750 with Varget.

I used to shoot factory ammo in college if I couldn't get home to use dad's reloading equipment. Factory ammo was inconsistent.
Sometimes I'd get a certain lot of Factory ammo that shot well. Next lot shot like shit. There for a while all I was shooting was the Australian Outback 69 SMKs because it shot so well and was only like $.50/rnd at Cabelas.

That gun hasn't had a round of factory ammo through it now for 4+ years. The cost for good .223 ammo is absurd. But that shouldn't be a shocker for you. If it were me I'd just run your gas gun. Or get a bolt gun and a reloading set up

 

[jcmullis2]

The problem is the ammo. Factory offerings include shit and more shit and all of it 55gn fmj or psp. The shits not too bad in slow twist barrels but nobody wants those anymore. I’d look for something that has a 1:9 twist barrel. The slower the twist the better with that 55gn factory ammo.

 

[ChristianSilver]

My 223 Rem, 1 / 7.5 twist Wylde with .0130 FB shoots 1/2 MOA at 500 yards with ease.
69 Gr Nosler Comp Lapua brass cci 450 with 25.7 Gr VV 140

 

[NGCSUGrad09]

I've got multiple .223 bolt rifles and even more precision gas guns. With factory ammo you should see some increased velocity and more repeatable precision (easier to get good accuracy vs having to work harder with a gas gun).

For a few hundred yards you can shoot just about anything, even decent 55gr ammo does well for that. If you ever go prairie dog shooting, a .223 bolt gun is my favorite all around rifle option, especially with 53gr VMAX or similar bullets.

If you want to unlock the full potential of a .223 bolt action, handloading will give you significantly better bullet and velocity options. But if you only shoot factory ammo it's still a solid option for a fun and accurate rifle.

Finally, make no mistake...shooting past 600 yards even with the bigger bullets isn't easy and can be very hard to spot with the smaller bullets.

 

[athanasios23]

I have a tikka t3x varmint and a GAP Gladius in 223. Tikka does not like cheap ammo and I need to by better quality ammo to get it to group tight. My GAP shoots anything into a tiny little hole. Why not the tikka t3x ctr?

 

[fullsemiauto556]

I really appreciate all of the honest and solid advice, it all makes absolute sense to me.

There's obviously only one way to go with this, buy a bolt gun and reload. I was planning on reloading for the .308 anyways.

@athanasios23
The CTR was considered as well, but we'll see what availability is like when I actually have the funds available.

 

[Snuby642]

Magazine length, twist and chamber limitations are going to drive bullet selection.

I spent a year off and on trying to make a tactical 308 shoot secant ogive bullets. They like to be loaded longer to get enough powder behind them I think.

That tactical 308 has a chamber and magazine about the same as the gassers, this was on purpose as originally specified by the agency's.

If you are buying a gun designated as tactical in 223 or 308 you need to be aware of this possibility.

After a discussion with a tech at Berger my brain finally kicked in.

I started to use tangent ogive and hybrid ogive bullets in that gun and been happy since. They are very accurate.

A 223 is going to be the same thing .

A 223 chambered for longer loads can stretch your range but hand loads will probably be necessary to max it out.

A tactical bolt gun has the ability to use factory ammo with good results.

Pick your poison.

 

[Snuby642]

I have a tikka t3x varmint and a GAP Gladius in 223. Tikka does not like cheap ammo and I need to by better quality ammo to get it to group tight. My GAP shoots anything into a tiny little hole. Why not the tikka t3x ctr?

This came up while posting but is exactly what I was talking about.

GAP doesn't say on thier website but I'll bet it was chambered "tactical" by design.

The Tika is designed to take advantage of the longer loaded secant ogive bullets.

Your not ever going to get one load for both.

IMHO

 

[Shawn1492]

You can get started reloading with a Lee turret press and Lee dies for cheap. That plus an RCBS charge master and you can load 1/2 MOA ammo for about 1/2 price of factory ammo.

 

[Chickentoast]

Obviously reloading is the way, mine was good for .1's and .2's with the loads it liked. To answer the specific question re: factory ammo, my t3x varmint in 223 shot fiocchi 77gr exacta into .25" consistently. It hated lots of ammo though, spraying 3-4" groups with stuff it hated, regardless of cost.

 

[srt-4_uk]

This came up while posting but is exactly what I was talking about.

GAP doesn't say on thier website but I'll bet it was chambered "tactical" by design.

The Tika is designed to take advantage of the longer loaded secant ogive bullets.

Your not ever going to get one load for both.

IMHO

 

[beenjammin]

If you do get into reloading for a bolt action .223 you will certainly enjoy it. Shooting 80 grainers out of a 24"- 26" 1/7-1/8 is one of the sweetest shooting rounds out there. You can literally watch the vapor trail all the way to impact 600 -1000. Where I shoot the .223 guys go first and have the best conditions early in the morning. These guys shoot some incredibly high scores.

 

[Snuby642]

Measure the brass from your ar and then from your tika and then your free bore / overall distance to the lands. If you have a longer magazine you can shove the lands back more.

If your chamber is hammer forged around a military spec there is no use trying to fight that.

I took liberty with the word tactical.

I will undoubtedly burn in hell.

 

[DownhillFromHere]

I had a .223 Tikka T3X Varmint (24" 1:8 barrel) in an MDT LSS-XL chassis which was a pretty consistent 1/2MOA performer with Defender Ammunition 69- and 77-grain SMK factory rounds. These also perform well in my current Defiance Deviant-based rifle.

As others have said, factory rounds are puny in terms of velocity and loaded short to fit AR magazines, but the SMKs don't mind the jump. The Defender 77SMK rounds are specified as 5.56x45 caliber, with the implied higher pressure of the NATO round. Regardless, this round is still slower than what I get with the same bullet in my reloads, and I'm fairly conservative as regards observance of pressure signs.

Neither of my .223s shot/shoot 55gr FMJBT bulk bullets worth a crap (~3MOA @100), whether factory or handloaded (full disclosure: small sample size; Wolf Gold 55FMJBT factory and Winchester 55FMJBT handload).

 

[bravesirrobin]

I've got the same experience with my .223 Tikka Varmint in a Bravo. The cheap factory 55 or 62gr yield awful accuracy, 2-3MOA. With my reloads (using either 73 or 75gr ELDs) it will shoot under half MOA.

 

[srt-4_uk]

Measure the brass from your ar and then from your tika and then your free bore / overall distance to the lands. If you have a longer magazine you can shove the lands back more.

If your chamber is hammer forged around a military spec there is no use trying to fight that.

I took liberty with the word tactical.

I will undoubtedly burn in hell.

I have a bolt gun that has a 223 Wylde chamber. I have an AR that has a 223 Wylde chamber.
I made a load that is just off the lands in the bolt gun. It doesnt fit at all in an AR magazine. It chambers in the AR no problem.

I dont know what a tactical chamber is.

 

[RFutch]

I have a bolt gun that has a 223 Wylde chamber. I have an AR that has a 223 Wylde chamber.
I made a load that is just off the lands in the bolt gun. It doesnt fit at all in an AR magazine. It chambers in the AR no problem.

I dont know what a tactical chamber is.

The opposite of a hunter chamber duh.

 

[ChristianSilver]

The opposite of a hunter chamber duh.

Sit down.. duh..

 

[ChristianSilver]

Your In a league of your own..

 

[Badfinger]

Reloading has just about always improved the accuracy of my guns. I bought a Savage 110 Predator on sale just to have a ranch rifle for predators here on the farm. It shot Hornady varmint ammo OK around an inch and sometimes more. But when I tried an old varmint load from about 40 years ago it shined!

This is 25 grs of IMR 4064 with a 52gr SX Blitz bullet. ( Use at your own risk )

 

[BiggBeans]

What powder are you guys running with the 80+ grainers in your 223s?

 

[ChristianSilver]

VV140 plays well with 80gr

 

[just browsing]

8208 and 4895 for me. Varget as well but considerably slower than the other two.

 

[st1650]

I’ll get pressure sign with XBR before varget and I already load XBR 2 gr over max book.

 

[vinniedelpino]

If I were shooting factory ammo in .223 the rifle would be wearing a harrell's tactical tuner brake.

 

[fullsemiauto556]

If I were shooting factory ammo in .223 the rifle would be wearing a harrell's tactical tuner brake.

I'm only interested in shooting centerfire rifles suppressed, so I really don't have an interest in a tuner for this application.

 

[CaptArab]

I love my bolt 223.

I have a 16" Tikka that LRI chopper and fluted for me.

I deer hunt with it without ear pro.
No port pop / action noise is nice.

It's wearing a turbo k until my ultra 7 is free.
It's probably my favorite gun.

If you don't want to reload, train with the cheaper 77 smk stuff and shoot animals with the TMKs.

There's a whole religion around the Tikka with 77 TMK and fixed power super chickens on a couple hunting forums.

 

[Lightning8]

TAC with 80s.

 

[CK1.0]

IMO if you've gotten in the habit of feeding your 223/556 blaster 77gr SMK and the MK262ish type "good stuff"... well, that's a fun habit!

(but it ain't a cheap one ) .

In your case, you should probably just skip right over the 223/308 nonsense and continue what you're doing with that Noveske, and get yourself a ~$400 6mm creed prefit for that Howa, spend ~$200 for a simple single-stage and dies, a case of factory stuff to shoot and start you off with brass, and just jump in and get rolling...

Sounds like you're going to end up there anyways. Soon you'll be driving that hour to your 1000 yard range like it's around the block, rationalizing why a ~$1500 AMP is nothing really, and reading threads about expander mandrels and shit hahahaha...

 

[NewsShooter]

I have a savage .223 that shoots pretty much one hole at 100 with black hills 77smk's. Hangs right with my 6.5 to 600 in elevation.

 

[fullsemiauto556]

Okay fellas, some excellent info, but you're getting me just a little overwhelmed here. I've just showed up to the dragstrip with Mom's sedan, let's keep it fairly simple and stick to the basics for now. I'm not ready for nitrous, a blower or slicks just yet.

 

[CK1.0]

Okay fellas, some excellent info, but you're getting me just a little overwhelmed here. I've just showed up to the dragstrip with Mom's sedan, let's keep it fairly simple and stick to the basics for now. I'm not ready for nitrous, a blower or slicks just yet.

Well, to break it down a bit, if you want to go with a bolt 223, do it, they're very cool... but you can't really take full advantage of one beyond what you're already getting with your AR and the heavy-for-gas-gun 77gr Mk262ish top shelf ammo, without rolling your pants up and wading into the reloading waters, because you can't really buy factory stuff for them, you'd just have to hope you get lucky with one that likes gas-gun stuff or hopefully find a brand that shoots ok out of it.

..but, if you decide you might be ready to take a swing at reloading... then, if you're going to go through the trouble anyway and have access to a range that'll let you stretch your legs, you might as well go to a 6mm like where just about everyone else ends up... because they're accurate as fuck, shoot far as fuck, and don't really recoil a whole bunch. (which has nothing to do with how much it kicks, and everything to do with being able to self spot your own impacts/splash).

Don't forget: after you figure out all the gun/ammo shit, then there's the wind to deal with... it's a journey, like golf (but for men).

 

[4thandbleek]

I have a Howa-Weatherby with sub-moa guarantee in that caliber, and I'm very happy with it but for the magazine that can be odd to load with the small cartridge. They're now making a new version with a small receiver designed for the 223, might want to check it out.

 

[CaptArab]

ARs are cool.
Bolt guns are awesome too.
No further justification needed.
Buy one

 

[Badshot308]

Okay fellas, some excellent info, but you're getting me just a little overwhelmed here. I've just showed up to the dragstrip with Mom's sedan, let's keep it fairly simple and stick to the basics for now. I'm not ready for nitrous, a blower or slicks just yet.

You're probably going to get similar or slightly better results. The rifle you're looking at has a 1 in 8 twist which should be fine for the 77gr bullets you're shooting. If you go to a slower twist varmint rifle, accuracy won't be as good with heavier bullets.

 

[Sieg]

Federal 69g GMM, 100y timed match 10rds in 10min.

Basic T3x Varmint in a Bravo with $9 trigger spring.

 

[308pirate]

What powder are you guys running with the 80+ grainers in your 223s?

H4350, IMR4350, Varget, Ramshot TAC all work well