.223 Rifle Build

[kiena]

Hello,
Need some ideas and input on .223 rifle build. As far as the action I'm pretty open, but would like a recommendation on something with short throw like 70 degree or so so don't have to worry about scope clearance. Barrels are a plethora and would like to possibly try a CF wrapped, but planning to run a can on it and not sure about the whole chunk of weight on the end and effect on accuracy. So input on that from ppl with experience would be great. As far as stocks.... i have a few rifle with KRG chassis of different flavors and i really like them, but wanted to try something different. Is it worth exploring Manners with DBM or just stick with what I already know. Also, I know mags are also a concern, want to not have to fiddle with mags and mag catches and such to run reliably. planning to shoot mostly 77 grain OTMS, but would probably try 80s, and 90s at some point so that leaves me to twist rate to cover those bullet weights 1/7, 1/8 and such, info for that would be nice.
And yes, i did my research on the subject before someone tells me to use search function. I just want opinions on what ppl built or use and what i might have missed from my research to compare notes or update my findings.
Thank you guys in advance.

 

[Chickentoast]

Currently running a 26" Shilen select match ratchet rifled 7.5 twist, straight 1.05" with target crown. Almost zero recoil due to heft, takes forever to heat up, and cloverleafs @ 300 yds with 80's @ 2950 fps.

 

[oldrifleman]

My 223 is an Impact/CRB/ Foundation Centurian. What is the plans for this rifle. Hunting, that would work for a Carbon barrel. Match use probably go with a conventional barrel. With a carbon barrel this will be a tail heavy rifle. Go for a .080 - .100 if you plan to spot anything longer than a 77smk. If

 

[SingleShot85]

This little gem is an Impact 737 16” proof 1:7 and hammers 65grain game kings at 3065fps. It is my youngest boy and his big brothers 6gt behind it is money as well

 

[Dogsniper]

1-7 twist 223 Ackley or wylde if you want to run 88s. I’m getting 2820 with 88s in a 26”barrel with a wylde chamber and fc brass .In my opinion manners are my favorite stocks. If you run a Zermatt origin for a budget build with a proof pre fit. Personally I run the tl3. Easy to do a barrel and a bolt head swap to almost any caliber you want.

 

[diggler1833]

Since the OP wants a shorter lift, he can look at anything from a Tikka, to a 75* impact, to a Terminus, or even a Solus, depending on what he wanted.

I'm less of a fan on CF wrapped barrels if this is going to be a trainer/range toy. If hunting, that is a completely different answer and CF is a great option.

I like the 1:8 twist for everything up to about the 80gr range. 1:7 is going to start to benefit you more once you get over that. The 1:7 isn't going to hurt you either if you shoot bullets lighter than 68/69gr either...so that would be my choice (again).

For anything 80gr and below, the .223 Wylde chambering has enough freebore (.062, which will get you out to 2.4xx" OAL). If you are planning on running mostly 80-90gr, I'd probably look at something with at least .100, if not the ISSF at .169. I think (don't know) that some dedicated F-T/R guys might even run more freebore than that.

My .223 experience in a "custom" bolt gun is a trued 700, with a 1:7 Krieger Heavy Varmint at 26". It has a .223 Wylde chamber and really is boringly half-minute consistent with all of the bullets in the 68/69 - 77gr range that I've tried. I love it.

 

[kiena]

My 223 is an Impact/CRB/ Foundation Centurian. What is the plans for this rifle. Hunting, that would work for a Carbon barrel. Match use probably go with a conventional barrel. With a carbon barrel this will be a tail heavy rifle. Go for a .080 - .100 if you plan to spot anything longer than a 77smk. IfView attachment 8669638

That is one pretty rifle i have to say... always liked those stocks

 

[oldrifleman]

That is one pretty rifle i have to say... always liked those stocks

Yeah, it is a wonderful stock.

 

[kiena]

Guys thank you for the input and im leaning more toward conventional barrel due to past unfavorable things with CF barrels and suppressors messing up due to flex and weight, shifting point of impact by a big margin. And most likely will be shooting 77 and below, just wanted to see if i can get away with heavier bullets with the same twist (never tried reloading heavier than 77). have been reloading for a long time and no issues experimenting. The plan for this rifle to shoot a bit cheaper (debatable) lol than my 6.5 or .308, plus wanted a .223 bolt gun for a while. I do have a few really good shooting ARs, but bolt gun is where it's at if i want to take advantage of some loads that i dont feel comfortable shooting in semi auto

 

[King_beardsly]

I threw a criterion 223 barrel on my TL3 and it’s been an absolute pleasure coming off my 308 in the same setup. It’s currently a Zermatt TL3, Accurate mags, 26” 7wt criterion with there match chamber sitting in either a PRS1 or TCS depending on what I’m using it for and chucks 75ELD-Ms at 2920

 

[oldrifleman]

Guys thank you for the input and im leaning more toward conventional barrel due to past unfavorable things with CF barrels and suppressors messing up due to flex and weight, shifting point of impact by a big margin. And most likely will be shooting 77 and below, just wanted to see if i can get away with heavier bullets with the same twist (never tried reloading heavier than 77). have been reloading for a long time and no issues experimenting. The plan for this rifle to shoot a bit cheaper (debatable) lol than my 6.5 or .308, plus wanted a .223 bolt gun for a while. I do have a few really good shooting ARs, but bolt gun is where it's at if i want to take advantage of some loads that i dont feel comfortable shooting in semi auto

Mine is a ,080 freebore 7 twist and loves the Berger 80 grain Hybrids.

 

[King_beardsly]

This little gem is an Impact 737 16” proof 1:7 and hammers 65grain game kings at 3065fps. It is my youngest boy and his big brothers 6gt behind it is money as well
View attachment 8669627

All my manners are in that color scheme and I love see more in the wild.

 

[Rob01]

OP you don’t need a 70 degree bolt throw. Been doing this over 30 years and never used anything but 90s and no issues at all on many rifles. That whole fear of scope issues is bolstered by companies selling 60-75degree bolt throw actions.

Glad you steered towards a steel barrel. I have a 27” 7 twist .223 Wylde chambered by PVA and it shoots the 75 ELDs great! I screwed it on my .308 TL3 action and it ran great. Don’t sweat magazines. Get some MDT polys and run them. I load mine at .020” off the lands in the Wylde chamber which has a .62 freebore. If you plan to mostly shoot the 77 and below the Wylde does a great job.

What actions are your .308 and 6.5? You may just be able to pop a barrel on one of them.

 

[kiena]

OP you don’t need a 70 degree bolt throw. Been doing this over 30 years and never used anything but 90s and no issues at all on many rifles. That whole fear of scope issues is bolstered by companies selling 60-75degree bolt throw actions.

Glad you steered towards a steel barrel. I have a 27” 7 twist .223 Wylde chambered by PVA and it shoots the 75 ELDs great! I screwed it on my .308 TL3 action and it ran great. Don’t sweat magazines. Get some MDT polys and run them. I load mine at .020” off the lands in the Wylde chamber which has a .62 freebore. If you plan to mostly shoot the 77 and below the Wylde does a great job.

What actions are your .308 and 6.5? You may just be able to pop a barrel on one of them.

Oh im not afraid of 90 degree actions lol and never had issue, i just want a shorter throw action And my other ones are Tikka and TRG 22. they are both setup the way i like and dont really want to rebarrel those for now, just want a dedicated very good .223 rifle. I'm not opposed to spend money on quality parts so thats why i asked for your guys input. I do alot of research before I spend the money usually and 99% of the time the end result is trouble free.
Having said all that bs, I mostly have experience with AR platform in that caliber, be it built by me or someone else, bolt gun in todays world with so many options is a bit overwhelming. AR i know exactly what I need to build a fantastic rifle, bolt gun is like voodoo since its been a very long time since i had a rifle built. Now, with all the actions, prefit barrels, and stock options i figured i need some outside input before i spend $$$$$

 

[Chickentoast]

Guys thank you for the input and im leaning more toward conventional barrel due to past unfavorable things with CF barrels and suppressors messing up due to flex and weight, shifting point of impact by a big margin. And most likely will be shooting 77 and below, just wanted to see if i can get away with heavier bullets with the same twist (never tried reloading heavier than 77). have been reloading for a long time and no issues experimenting. The plan for this rifle to shoot a bit cheaper (debatable) lol than my 6.5 or .308, plus wanted a .223 bolt gun for a while. I do have a few really good shooting ARs, but bolt gun is where it's at if i want to take advantage of some loads that i dont feel comfortable shooting in semi auto

Definitely consider the 75 eld and heavier - look at the BC's. Berger 80.5 and up as well if you want even better consistency. As long as you have the freebore and the length, it does (if just barely) have the boiler room to get them out there. I run 80's because the loss in MV wasn't made up for with BC with anything heavier. However, if I was killing animals, I would go with the 88's and above.

 

[Rob01]

Oh im not afraid of 90 degree actions lol and never had issue, i just want a shorter throw action And my other ones are Tikka and TRG 22. they are both setup the way i like and dont really want to rebarrel those for now, just want a dedicated very good .223 rifle. I'm not opposed to spend money on quality parts so thats why i asked for your guys input. I do alot of research before I spend the money usually and 99% of the time the end result is trouble free.
Having said all that bs, I mostly have experience with AR platform in that caliber, be it built by me or someone else, bolt gun in todays world with so many options is a bit overwhelming. AR i know exactly what I need to build a fantastic rifle, bolt gun is like voodoo since its been a very long time since i had a rifle built. Now, with all the actions, prefit barrels, and stock options i figured i need some outside input before i spend $$$$$

Then find an action that takes prefit barrels and a shorter bolt lift and buy it and then get a prefit barrel and put it all together. Advise is do not get an action that you can’t use prefits on. Would be stupid at this time. You will also be smart to get an action with a 700 footprint so you can use a multitude of stocks and chassis.

PVA does all sorts of prefit action barrels. Get with @bohem Josh from PVA and he can get you set up with a barrel.

 

[King_beardsly]

Oh im not afraid of 90 degree actions lol and never had issue, i just want a shorter throw action And my other ones are Tikka and TRG 22. they are both setup the way i like and dont really want to rebarrel those for now, just want a dedicated very good .223 rifle. I'm not opposed to spend money on quality parts so thats why i asked for your guys input. I do alot of research before I spend the money usually and 99% of the time the end result is trouble free.
Having said all that bs, I mostly have experience with AR platform in that caliber, be it built by me or someone else, bolt gun in todays world with so many options is a bit overwhelming. AR i know exactly what I need to build a fantastic rifle, bolt gun is like voodoo since its been a very long time since i had a rifle built. Now, with all the actions, prefit barrels, and stock options i figured i need some outside input before i spend $$$$$

I’m a sucker for the stuff from zermatt arms, especially the origin for its price point the offer it at. I like feature set it offers with the ease of swapping out bolt heads, control round feeding and the fact that I can take savage barrel nut barrels, origin shouldered or with swapping to the HRL lug it’s ability to take TL3 shouldered barrels.

 

[XTREM HTR16]

Why not a Tikka T3X Super Varmint? Would have familiarity with your others.

 

[Dogsniper]

OP you don’t need a 70 degree bolt throw. Been doing this over 30 years and never used anything but 90s and no issues at all on many rifles. That whole fear of scope issues is bolstered by companies selling 60-75degree bolt throw actions.

Glad you steered towards a steel barrel. I have a 27” 7 twist .223 Wylde chambered by PVA and it shoots the 75 ELDs great! I screwed it on my .308 TL3 action and it ran great. Don’t sweat magazines. Get some MDT polys and run them. I load mine at .020” off the lands in the Wylde chamber which has a .62 freebore. If you plan to mostly shoot the 77 and below the Wylde does a great job.

What actions are your .308 and 6.5? You may just be able to pop a barrel on one of them.

Velocity?

 

[Rob01]

Velocity?

2970fps

 

[Dogsniper]

2970fps

I’m getting 3103 with a 22” Ackley with 75s

 

[DownhillFromHere]

A few thoughts. My background on the subject:

• Past owner of a .223 Tikka T3x Varmint upgraded with MDT 20MOA rail, LSS-XL chassis, ARCA rail, Anarchy Outfdoors bolt handle.
• Currently VERY pleased with Terminus Apollo-based custom .223 with Bartlein 1:7 barrel and TriggerTech Diamond in MDT ACC chassis. Current optic is Vortex gen-3 Razor 6-36x56 on 20MOA rail.
• I also have a .223 bolt and barrel for my Defiance Deviant-based rifle, but since I built the Apollo-based rifle with much help from a prize table cert and Black Friday sales, those bits have gone unused (the Defiance usually wears 6BR or 6.5CM barrels).

Thoughts:

• It sounds like you plan to use this bolt-action .223 as I use mine: as a cheaper-to-run alternative to larger-caliber rifles. My .223 is set up exactly the same as my 6BR/6.5CM - same barrel length/contour, chassis, trigger, and optic; only difference is the bolt throw which is not "a thing" for me.
  • So - with that said - you DO NOT need to push the envelope with velocity and bullet weight, or hot-rodded .223 variants. Why bother? Of course, if you want to play with such, fine, but that's not what you said.
  • I regularly shoot to 1000 with Hornady 75 ELDMs running about 2850fps. I can easily get more velocity, but this bullet with 22.8 grains of N135 and CCI 450 primer gives a relatively inexpensive load that is fairly gentle on the barrel and brass and is as accurate as any load for any caliber I've ever messed with.
  • This load's trajectory is nearly identical to my 6BR out to 700ish yards.
  • I tried 80-grain bullets. Pfft. Don't need 'em and they didn't perform as well as the 75s at ANY range.
  • I damn sure don't need to pay $100 a jug more for Varget to push more-expensive Berger bullets to suborbital speed.
  • The 75 ELDM load shoots to same POI whether my Rugged Alaskan suppressor is installed or not.
• If you want the short-throw action, Southern Precision Rifles carries Terminus and Zermatt. Pick one.
• Like Rob said - 90-degree bolts aren't going to be a problem with any reasonable / reasonably-mounted optic.
• Unasked but worth mentioning: don't fall for fudd lore of needing the optic mounted practically touching the barrel. I run 1.26" rings on all my bolt rifles; it's far better to raise the adjustable comb to where you need it than need to lower it and cannot.
• I have TriggerTech Diamonds in all but one of my bolt rifles. I like the Diamond because it adjusts down to 4 ounces; after six+ years of PRS-style and other competition, I have settled on an 8-ounce pull weight. Many people find this too light; if you are one of these, there are less expensive TT options (or other brands).
• EuroOptic is running a 25%-ish sale on a variety of MDT chassis right now, fwiw. You can also often find good deals on them in the PX here on SH.

Good luck.

 

[Rob01]

I’m getting 3103 with a 22” Ackley with 75s

Fantastic. Mine is a match rifle that I use in Tac class. .223 up to 77grn and .308 up to 178grn only and a max of 3000fps for the .223 so I am fine where I am at.

 

[kiena]

A few thoughts. My background on the subject:

• Past owner of a .223 Tikka T3x Varmint upgraded with MDT 20MOA rail, LSS-XL chassis, ARCA rail, Anarchy Outfdoors bolt handle.
• Currently VERY pleased with Terminus Apollo-based custom .223 with Bartlein 1:7 barrel and TriggerTech Diamond in MDT ACC chassis. Current optic is Vortex gen-3 Razor 6-36x56 on 20MOA rail.
• I also have a .223 bolt and barrel for my Defiance Deviant-based rifle, but since I built the Apollo-based rifle with much help from a prize table cert and Black Friday sales, those bits have gone unused (the Defiance usually wears 6BR or 6.5CM barrels).

Thoughts:

• It sounds like you plan to use this bolt-action .223 as I use mine: as a cheaper-to-run alternative to larger-caliber rifles. My .223 is set up exactly the same as my 6BR/6.5CM - same barrel length/contour, chassis, trigger, and optic; only difference is the bolt throw which is not "a thing" for me.
  • So - with that said - you DO NOT need to push the envelope with velocity and bullet weight, or hot-rodded .223 variants. Why bother? Of course, if you want to play with such, fine, but that's not what you said.
  • I regularly shoot to 1000 with Hornady 75 ELDMs running about 2850fps. I can easily get more velocity, but this bullet with 22.8 grains of N135 and CCI 450 primer gives a relatively inexpensive load that is fairly gentle on the barrel and brass and is as accurate as any load for any caliber I've ever messed with.
  • This load's trajectory is nearly identical to my 6BR out to 700ish yards.
  • I tried 80-grain bullets. Pfft. Don't need 'em and they didn't perform as well as the 75s at ANY range.
  • I damn sure don't need to pay $100 a jug more for Varget to push more-expensive Berger bullets to suborbital speed.
  • The 75 ELDM load shoots to same POI whether my Rugged Alaskan suppressor is installed or not.
• If you want the short-throw action, Southern Precision Rifles carries Terminus and Zermatt. Pick one.
• Like Rob said - 90-degree bolts aren't going to be a problem with any reasonable / reasonably-mounted optic.
• Unasked but worth mentioning: don't fall for fudd lore of needing the optic mounted practically touching the barrel. I run 1.26" rings on all my bolt rifles; it's far better to raise the adjustable comb to where you need it than need to lower it and cannot.
• I have TriggerTech Diamonds in all but one of my bolt rifles. I like the Diamond because it adjusts down to 4 ounces; after six+ years of PRS-style and other competition, I have settled on an 8-ounce pull weight. Many people find this too light; if you are one of these, there are less expensive TT options (or other brands).
• EuroOptic is running a 25%-ish sale on a variety of MDT chassis right now, fwiw. You can also often find good deals on them in the PX here on SH.

Good luck.

Thank you, pretty much summed up my thought process for the said rifle. And I'm def not a fudd lore practitioner lol. Already have an MDT in route from Euro.
To answer Tikka question... I would be comfy with the Tikka and the shoot great, just want something different, new.

 

[bohem]

There's a lot of stuff in this hobby/sport/industry that's very subjective. I think there's been a lot of great advice in here on actions/stocks/etc.

The thing I'll reinforce is this: Spend the money on a really good barrel. We all know a 700 with a good barrel will shoot really well. We all know a Zermatt/Terminus/Curtis/ARC/Impact/Surgeon/etc/etc/etc with a good barrel on it will shoot really well.

Nobody serious buys a custom action and then puts on take-off savage factory barrels with any intentions more than blowing up prairie dogs with a disposable barrel. The thing that's really data driven (aka objective not subjective) is the quality of the barrel and the way that shoots. Action throws of 60/70/75/90 degrees all have their places and their die hard fans. Barrel brands that have die hard fans have a following because they make really good stuff. Being a little shameless I will throw our hat into that ring, but far be it from me to tell you that a place like Stuteville or GAP is somehow going to make you something that's not up to what we're doing. The shops and barrel companies making top rep stuff is there for a reason and I think that's the part we should be really focused on.

PVA (my shop) offers 223 chambers with an 0.062 (wylde throat) and a 0.100 throat (longer for bolt guns with 75-90 grain) options. Any contour, length from 16.5-26, muzzle threads, etc

Osprey 22 caliber Prefit Barrels - All Actions

Precision rifle prefit barrels for all actions, custom ordered and ready to install. No machining or gunsmithing required. Match winning Osprey barrels by Patriot Valley Arms; we Engineer Repeatability. 100% Made in USA

patriotvalleyarms.com

But the key there is a top end blank, well machined and you can pick the rest. The 0.062 vs 0.100 freebore makes a difference in how long you can load out the rounds but ultimately with a 75gr ELDm the performance between the two is marginally different that it's going to win or lose matches for you or hold you back from being able to practice really well with it.

I also designed, and produce a 75 gr monolithic specifically for TAC class that is a monster performer in 223 chambers. I'm running a 24" 7tw barrel wtih those bullets dialed back to 2985fps for meeting rules requirements. It shoots under 1/4MOA at 500 yards and the wind calls match my 6 Dasher with 105 Hybrids at 1200 yards.

https://patriotvalleyarms.com/224-seneca-tac-75gr-bullet-50ct/?searchid=47539

One final note:
If you have an action that cannot take true "prefits" we offer with the first barreling work here:
You send in your action, we measure everythign and custom fit the first barrel, engrave the dimensions on an anodized aluminum tag and we don't need to see your action again to make subsequent barrels.

We don't charge extra for it, the only additional cost is the shipping and insurance of the barreled action instead of it just being a receiver. @Rob01 has been doing this with a couple of his older Surgeon and Defiance actions now for a decade.