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223 semi-precision reloading frustration.
- Thread starter DIYguy
- Start date
My AR custom Wylde shoot in the same hole with 3,4 even some 5 shot groups with a 16 inch barrel. Problem is that’s only with 223 brass and 55 or 60 grain VMAX and VARGET. I really want to get back to it to try and do 69,70 or 75 eld type boat tail long range loads. I could not ever get 75 or 77 gr factory nato brass ammo to group half MOA in it
If I try heavier bullets I’m still gonna use 223 brass (lapua) and experiment with seating and neck bushing dies
I’ll probably run into the same issues OP has and it just really comes down to the gun I suppose
I’ve never had to play with the gas block adjustment on mine but trying to get long heavies to group with a good reload I may have to
Sometimes it’s just not worth it perhaps?
Anyway, this is an interesting thread
If I try heavier bullets I’m still gonna use 223 brass (lapua) and experiment with seating and neck bushing dies
I’ll probably run into the same issues OP has and it just really comes down to the gun I suppose
I’ve never had to play with the gas block adjustment on mine but trying to get long heavies to group with a good reload I may have to
Sometimes it’s just not worth it perhaps?
Anyway, this is an interesting thread
I feel your pain but if you keep trying I think you will find success. I'm getting 1/2" groups with the Hornady 75gr bullets with a DDM4V7 rifle with a chromed lined barrel using 4064 and 4166 powder. I use the 75gr with the cannelure and the one with out. The one with a cannelure is more work. I seat with a Redding comp. die then in a separate operation put a slight crimp. I use a Lee lock ring with the rubber o-ring. I can adjust it to a light crimp with all brands of brass very easily. I have also found with the 4064 powder I use a #41 primer with 21.5 grs of powder. I get a complete burn of the powder. With the non cannelure 75gr. bullets I use no crimp but up the charge to 22.5grs of 4064. Sometimes I think less powder and a magnum primer can help. With the Sierra 69 gr. bullets I have had great results with 4320, 4064 and 4166 powder. It seems most people try to load with the most powder they can get away with but the best accuracy can also be found and the lower end of the scale if accuracy is what you are after. At longer ranges it's best to find both but that's a different story.
Hi Mr. DIYguy,
Call me Captain Obvious but ... you have checked the scope rings and tried a different scope, right? And you know that your barrel nut is tight in the upper? It is also possible that your bullets touch your flash suppressor - yeah, it can happen. I'm sorry to ask about such basic stuff but I didn't see anything about those anywhere above. You may have rockin' reloads but the barrel and scope reticle may not consistently point to the same spot.
Call me Captain Obvious but ... you have checked the scope rings and tried a different scope, right? And you know that your barrel nut is tight in the upper? It is also possible that your bullets touch your flash suppressor - yeah, it can happen. I'm sorry to ask about such basic stuff but I didn't see anything about those anywhere above. You may have rockin' reloads but the barrel and scope reticle may not consistently point to the same spot.
Regarding factory ammo, yup. With every new firearm I always start with factory ammo and chrono the good stuff to get a benchmark of performance and velocity. I'm attaching a copy of my log which documents most of the results from the trips to the range with the Labradar including the factory loads. I know there are some data junkies out there so it also shows the effect on temperature and velocity.
I use QuickLoad to help with the initial process of finding the alleged optimal load, not perfect but helps give a recommendation and shorten the process. For my 18" barrel the Optimum Barrel Time is Node #5 at .9245. Based on that formula optimal velocity at 35 degrees should be 2,726 fps. Attaching a screen shot for those that aren't familiar.
I use QuickLoad to help with the initial process of finding the alleged optimal load, not perfect but helps give a recommendation and shorten the process. For my 18" barrel the Optimum Barrel Time is Node #5 at .9245. Based on that formula optimal velocity at 35 degrees should be 2,726 fps. Attaching a screen shot for those that aren't familiar.
Attachments
Regarding different scope, no. Vortex Diamond Back Tactical at the moment since I don't take this rifle beyond 200m. Mounts are tight. I have a good size shop and use a Caldwell DFT2 lead sled as part of scope mounting. Lock the rifle in and confirm plumb chassis. After all the eye relief adjustments and positioning do the initial light tighten. I have a vertical line on the wall on the end of my shop and part of the plumb process is to use the vertical reticle with the plumb line. Fat Max torque wrench and I have my procedure which is tighten each bolt to light contact and then alternate rings and use the "X" pattern with about a 1/16 of a turn for each bolt until hit torque.
Mussel break is another subject for exploration that I'm suspicious about. I know it's not hitting but I have a Silencerco ASR break on the rifle instead of the original break. I never use the suppressor on this rifle anymore so wondering if the break is effecting the harmonics?
Even though the barrel has the JP Thermal Dissipator I've notice barrel temp seems to work opposite of other rifles. As the barrel warms up the groups tighten up. Again, for the data junkies I'm attaching the range tests from last week. These are loads using brand new Hornady brass with no prep other than bevel and chamfer.
Mussel break is another subject for exploration that I'm suspicious about. I know it's not hitting but I have a Silencerco ASR break on the rifle instead of the original break. I never use the suppressor on this rifle anymore so wondering if the break is effecting the harmonics?
Even though the barrel has the JP Thermal Dissipator I've notice barrel temp seems to work opposite of other rifles. As the barrel warms up the groups tighten up. Again, for the data junkies I'm attaching the range tests from last week. These are loads using brand new Hornady brass with no prep other than bevel and chamfer.
Soooo ... I use to shoot benchrest - NBRSA, light and heavy varmint. I had two guns, one for each event. 6PPC, 68 grain bullets. This was a long time ago. My scopes were Leupold 36x - 1 inch tubes, top of the line for the day. Both guns would shoot. Side issue - I also made my own bullets. One day I was practicing and one of the guns started to throw shots all over the place. I tried stuff then finally I swapped the scope from the other gun. Still throwing shots so I just proved that it is my bullets. I was having some trouble at work so I put the guns down thinking I would come back to them. A year or two later I'm thinking I need to get back into shooting BR - shooting is good for mental health and all that. I also had a 24x Leupold so I stuck that on one of the guns. Shot a small 2 right out of the gate. I had two bad 36x scopes. Sent both scopes back to Leupold, they fixed both of them, and both guns were shooting again. So it can happen.
I also have a JP Supermatch .223 Wylde AR upper. After extensive testing, I finally settled on Lapua brass, Sierra 69gr SMK, 2.250 OAL, 24.3gr Varget.
I know it may not be much help because your components are different, but its a data point for ya.
Also try a Lee Collet die with undersized mandrel to set final neck tension. I use a Lee Classic Press with the Titan torque wrench adapter to get the exact same amount of force each time. I found that helps tremendously with lowering ES/SD. Its the same technique I used to achieve this: https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...-cfe-223-leverevolution.7102847/post-10192871
I know it may not be much help because your components are different, but its a data point for ya.
Also try a Lee Collet die with undersized mandrel to set final neck tension. I use a Lee Classic Press with the Titan torque wrench adapter to get the exact same amount of force each time. I found that helps tremendously with lowering ES/SD. Its the same technique I used to achieve this: https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...-cfe-223-leverevolution.7102847/post-10192871
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