223 trainer and 88 eldm
- Thread starter outlawprecision
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I run 24.3 gr of Varget with cci 400s and lapua brass at overall length of 2.515 out of a 27" barrel and it is around 2820 based on my drop data for last couple matches. Was 2805 when I initially chronoed but has picked up a little in the last few hundred rounds. I would definitely start at least 1 to 2 grains lower though because it is a bit of a stout load for standard 223.
Awesome! What BC you running for that setup? That seems like it could handle its self really well out to 1000 with those speeds
.274 g7 has worked well for me out to 1000. It is surprisingly competitive with 6 and 6.5s. It is pretty comparable in drift to a 6br run at mild to moderate loads.
I shot in a team match with a buddy using a .223 and I had a 6.5cm. Don't know the exact load he was running but it was 88's with a hot Varget charge out of a 24" barrel and lapua brass. I was running match berger 140 ammo at 2750ish fps. Our dope and wind calls were within a tenth of a mil for the entire match. I forgot to bring my dope to a stage and actually ended up cleaning it with his dope calls. Beats the hell out of me as to how thats possible. He wasn't hitting the target with near as much force but he was every bit as capable as I was. He even nailed one out at 1200 yds. 88 ELDm's are definitely no joke.
When I was putting mine together I found that if I could get over 2800 fps it would stay within 10% of the drift of my 6.5x47 with 140s at 2800ish to 1k. It is a very impressive bullet.
7 twist here
Im running the 88gr ELD in a straight 223 with a long freebore (0.169). I use 23.5gr of H4895, lapua brass, and CCI BR-4 primers. The load is getting me right at 2820 FPS and the accuracy is phenomenal.
Couple of questions.
What is your COL or CBTO?
How far off the lands?
What Length of barrel?
So I am running 23.6 H4895, lapua brass CCI450 but its not shooting that good at distance 2.5 inches at 300 yards. Good SD and ES. I have a 26' proof 1:7 twist stainless steel. I am getting 2856 ES of 12 SD 6.
23.6 h4895 2.45 oal 26 bartlein 2860 w/ ultra 5, 6.5. Lapua brass, FGMM205, .02 jump. Sub half moa, 6 sd, 13 es. More details.
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Mine didnt shoot initially with my normal seating depth range 0.005 jam to 0.020 off. For first 100 rounds it wouldn't group under 1 moa. Finally backed it off to 0.035 off lands and it is easily 1/4 moa now.
For your questions
2.515 coal, no idea of cbto
0.035 off lands
27" Bartlein
Im at 1.970 CBTO/ 2.530 OAL (remember this is with an ISSF chamber so 0.169 freebore). 26" barrel, and I don't remember how far off the lands it is. I also don't remember what my next charges up looked like. I worked up to this load a year and a half ago and it has worked very well ever since. Like Jzerfoss said you might come down 0.1 or so and see if things improve. You might also try switching primers. a magnum primer in a 223 seems a bit excessive to me, but I could be wrong, I've never tried it.
So yeah, my experience with the 88s, despite good Chrono numbers, mirrors Jzers. At 2866 they weren't grouping well.
Slowed em down to around 2800fps and they immediately started tearing up the bulls eye.
So I guess 23.7gr of XBR is going to be my number at around 2800fps.
Slowed em down to around 2800fps and they immediately started tearing up the bulls eye.
So I guess 23.7gr of XBR is going to be my number at around 2800fps.
I just got done fine tuning mine. I slowed them down to around 2840 with 15 thou jump and they started grouping about 1/2 inch at 100 and 1 inch at 300. I think I was just trying to push them too fast
funny! Exact same node I found. 2839 205m primer, lapua brass, 26” barrel
Yeah I took that load to a 1 day match and it really impressed me. Unfortunately I ran out of ammo on the last stage switched to my 6 creedmoor, zeroed the last stage, and finished 4th or 5th.
I am not a bench rest shooter and never want to be but. I am still only able to avg 0.5 to 0.6 inch groups with this 88 eldm.
The ballistics are amazing and it had really good SD and ES for a .223.
What kinda groups are you getting?
have you tried the 80 eldm?
I'm averaging around .5" at 100 which is good but not great. It seems to carry that accuracy at distance which not all loads/bullets do. I'm happy with the 88s so I don't really play with any other bullets in my 223 anymore.
I'd say about a half inch also, but I was cleaning a little KYL rack 10/8/6/4 at 400 pretty consistently today and I'm not a good KYL shooter. (Hence the practice)
Hitting that little 4" with a 12mph tailwind at about 5:30 felt great with a training load that was processed and loaded on a progressive.
I tend to look at training ammo and my expectations for it differently than what I'd bring to a two day national level match.
If I can get sub moa accuracy out of it coming off a progressive press, including the powder dropper, that's money in my mind. Load it fast and spend more time at the range and less at the bench.
Hitting that little 4" with a 12mph tailwind at about 5:30 felt great with a training load that was processed and loaded on a progressive.
I tend to look at training ammo and my expectations for it differently than what I'd bring to a two day national level match.
If I can get sub moa accuracy out of it coming off a progressive press, including the powder dropper, that's money in my mind. Load it fast and spend more time at the range and less at the bench.
Been using XBR 8208, "supposed" to be pretty temp stable and the kernels are short and meter pretty well.
I'm a little ? around ball powders. There's occasionally a hiccup when loading progressive and it's a nightmare trying to see small ball powders let alone clean em up.
They're almost too small, at least CFE is IMO.
I'm a little ? around ball powders. There's occasionally a hiccup when loading progressive and it's a nightmare trying to see small ball powders let alone clean em up.
They're almost too small, at least CFE is IMO.
For you guys that are using the 88's in a straight 223 chamber (not AI), what twist are you all running? Think I would have any stability issues running them in a 24" 7.7 twist barrel?
Berger Stability calc shows somewhat on the low end of "marginal" stability around 2800 fps.
Edit: I have messed around with the 75 ELD-M's a bit, and might be able to step up to the 80's but the 88's might be too much? Idk, hard to resist that BC tho...
Berger Stability calc shows somewhat on the low end of "marginal" stability around 2800 fps.
Edit: I have messed around with the 75 ELD-M's a bit, and might be able to step up to the 80's but the 88's might be too much? Idk, hard to resist that BC tho...
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That's exactly what it looks like. Tiny Varget/H4350 kernels. At least they're visible though so you can vacuum and clean up in the event of a small spill or whatever.
Freakin CFE looks like dust, that stuff is TINY and could hide and penetrate about anywhere.
I found 2000MR was really temperature sensitive. Velocities were all over the place in the cold. I was expecting it to perform much better than it did.
I really like 8208 XBR and Varget for 88s and I'm on the fence to decide which I like better.
Varget fills the case more, so I get into compressed loads that can mess with my seating depth.
8208 XBR having smaller kernels can fit more densely in the case and get more weight into a smaller volume. So I don't get compressed loads with 8208.
As for accuracy so far, as long as I'm careful with how I trickle the Varget into the case, (Nice and slow with a long drop tube funnel) it seems to produce the best accuracy. Always has... For me anyway.
Shot this day before yesterday...and promptly bought a box of 500.
Curious what your primers looked like. Mine were flat to say the least at 23.9, like 24.2 of 8208 would probably be a no-go. I shot these with Starline brass, got some Lapua showing up today. We'll see what difference that makes...if any.
Mine were flat but did not show any evidence of cratering. I did however pierce 1 primer out of about 30, when I switched to federal 210m
They were fine, but I'm at altitude and I'm not loading to typical AR mag length
