223 vs 6.5 Creedmoor advice/question for you guys?

[2005ailes]

Hey guys, I have a question for you. I have a Remington 700 SPS tactical chambered in 223 (and is ready for a new barrel). The question I have for you is should I rebarrel the rifle with a Bartlein barrel and have the action worked on (about $700 bucks, but I would have a kick ass 223) or should I just upgrade to a bone stock Remington 700 SPS chambered in 6.5 (about $700 bucks)? I only have about $700 to spend on this project so I'm looking for some advice. This rifle is largely a target gun that does a few competitions.

Thanks
Matthew

 

[rustyinbend]

Easy answer ... re-tool to 6.5 Creedmoor. It does everything better, all day long, twice on the weekends.

 

[Hoser]

I would rebarrel it to 223 Ackley.

Not only is it a fun little caliber with a pretty good gain over a standard 223, but it is very accurate as well. With Varget I am pushing 80 SMKs around 3,050 and they will hold under MOA accuracy at 1,000.

Anyone can have a regular old 223 bolt gun...

 

[2005ailes]

Even though I would be going to just an out of the box Remington action and barrel? As opposed to a highly tuned action and barrel, just chambered in 233.

 

[jcmullis2]

Buy the sps 6.5 creedmoor. Get a remage barrel in 223ai and replace your worn out 223 when you get a chance later on

 

[Steel head]

I started with a 223 and quickly moved to a 6.5 when the 223 became difficult at the distances I wanted to shoot.
I was then a 1 rifle man with my 6.5 doing it all, 100 yards to eventually over a mile with some hunting and critter control thrown in.

If you can have only one rifle a 6.5 is a difficult option to beat.

You can get some very affordable 223 remage barrels right now as well.
Personally I wouldn’t spend big bucks on a 223 barrel.

 

[Josh1978]

I think CM.

 

[Newbie2020]

Problem is will the stock 700 SPS 6.5cm shoot sub MOA without a bit of Smith work? That’ll blow the $700 budget.

 

[Baddog 0302]

Depends on what you’re trying to do with it. If being around or under .5MOA is important to you, then absolutely re-barrel.

If having higher bc bullets and heavier bullets available that are better suited for matches and hunting is more important and you’re willing to live with something that may be around 1MOA or maybe less if you get lucky then, go with that.

You’re the only person that can decide that for you but for me, I know I’d be going 6.5 forcompetition and hunting purposes.

 

[Baddog 0302]

Another option,get another complete 700 bolt with a .473 [308] bolt face, shop for RemAge Bbl's. one in 6 or 6.5 CM or what ever, and the 2nd one in 223 or 223 AI, have it with the twist that meets your shooting requirements .

 

[stello1001]

Another option,get another complete 700 bolt with a .473 [308] bolt face, shop for RemAge Bbl's. one in 6 or 6.5 CM or what ever, and the 2nd one in 223 or 223 AI, have it with the twist that meets your shooting requirements .

So buy two barrels and a bolt. Pretty sure that'll put him at or past his budget. Still need go/no go gauges otherwise how will he headspace? Or take to a Smith?



I say rebarrel to 223 and true action. Go long and fast twisted. you'll be able to shoot the heavies out to a 1000...

 

[rustyinbend]

Everything you can do with a 223, you can do with 6.5 Creedmoor.
The converse is most assuredly "NOT" true ... just try hitting steel at 1,000 yards with a 223.

 

[Steel head]

Everything you can do with a 223, you can do with 6.5 Creedmoor.
The converse is most assuredly "NOT" true ... just try hitting steel at 1,000 yards with a 223.

I have a bit of experience with 223 and the 6.5’s at 1000.
Theres a substantial difference in the 6.5’s favor.

 

[stello1001]

I have a bit of experience with 223 and the 6.5’s at 1000.
Theres a substantial difference in the 6.5’s favor.

True, but it doesn't mean it won't be fun trying 1000 with a 223.

With a fast twist and longish barrel, it's possible.

 

[ilmonster]

I did something different. I started out a Rem 700 SPS Tac in .223 that I put into a KRG Bravo chassis and added a Trigger Tech trigger I still shoot. I shoot this out to 300 yds, but most of the time out to 200 yds. Love the .223.

I then saw a 26" 6.5 CM Rem 700 Varmint ADL on sale at Cabela's for $450. Remington had a $75 rebate (now, down to $375). I also had some Cabela bucks and ultimately got it for around $200. Now I'm building it up like the .223 for not a lot of money.

You could keep the .223 and wait for a good sale on a new Rem 700 and have both!

 

[NewsShooter]

Everything you can do with a 223, you can do with 6.5 Creedmoor.
The converse is most assuredly "NOT" true ... just try hitting steel at 1,000 yards with a 223.

That isn't a problem at all, my 223 takes less elevation than my .308. I'd suggest buying a Tikka, nicer action, good stock trigger and the action has tight enough tolerances you can get shouldered prefits when you need a new barrel.

 

[CrabsandFootball]

Sell the gun and buy something nicer. You can get a bergera hmr or tikka ctr for not much more money. Sinking money into a remington is throwing bad money after bad.

 

[Newbie2020]

^^^^ Nice idea. Add your $700 to the $400-500 you get for your 223 you can get a nice rifle.

 

[Hoser]

True, but it doesn't mean it won't be fun trying 1000 with a 223.

With a fast twist and longish barrel, it's possible.

For sure it is fun and a challenge.

I took my new Black Canyon built Terminus 223 Ackley out to 1,000 a couple weeks ago. With 80 Sierras I was able to beat up an 8 inch plate with trying too hard.

And the 223 Ackley is awesome out of an AR-15 also. 200-300 fps gain easy.

 

[spife7980]

Normally I would say to remage it to a nice 223 wylde or ai and skip the true job.

But you said a few competitions. Because of that alone you should go 6.5.


I love my 223 but no way am I gonna try and be competitive with it vs other 6/6.5s in a long range event. Just not gonna happen.

 

[Sgeorge]

I vote kick ass 223

 

[Steel head]

Not all I would say to remage it to a nice 223 wylde or ai.

But you said a few competitions. Because of that alone you should go 6.5.


I love my 223 but no way am I gonna try and be competitive with it vs other 6/6.5s in a long range event. Just not gonna happen.

 

[Rlandry]

The SPS stock is the first thing to go. Replace it with a stock that can be bedded and that the forearm won't flex and put a good trigger in it. Then see what you need to do with it. Good luck keeping any good rifle build under $700.

 

[Campguy308]

I would rebarrel it to 223 Ackley.

Not only is it a fun little caliber with a pretty good gain over a standard 223, but it is very accurate as well. With Varget I am pushing 80 SMKs around 3,050 and they will hold under MOA accuracy at 1,000.

Anyone can have a regular old 223 bolt gun...

How long is your barrel to get 3050 with an 80 and varget?

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

I have a couple of 6.5 CM’s and really like them both. They are great shooters. That said, I think your money would be better spent, rebuilding your .223. My experience in purchasing stock rifles is, it is a crap shoot. Some are great, some arn’t worth using as a club. (Another way of saying it, you could not hit water with them if you dropped them out of a boat). A decade ago I purchased a rifle that was terrible. A couple of friends said, all’s I need to do is restock it and with an HS Precision stock. $400.00 more dollars to get a rifle to where it should have been when it left the factory.

Sold it, purchased the least expensive model Weatherby Vanguard, and it is a shooter.

Now, there is nothing wrong with HS stocks. I own no less than four of them. (All IHMSA handgun stocks) but they are high quality items, but they cost. So, back to the point; A rebuilt .223 if reworked by a competent smith, is very likely to be a shooter. Purchasing a stock factory rifle carries no such guarantee.

 

[Hoser]

How long is your barrel to get 3050 with an 80 and varget?

26 inch Bartlien.

 

[BikePilot]

I’d sell the 223 and grab a tikka 6.5.

 

[Southern Custom]

I'd sell the sucker and get a Bergara B14 HMR. There are a few dealers on bunbroker going as low as $800. Fantastic trigger, and likely 1/2 moa out of the box. Not to mention the HMR stock with molded in mini chassis. It would take a lot of cash to get the Remington even close to what that gun can do out of the box.

 

[rookie7]

@2005ailes - the problem is people don't read or pay attention.

You never mentioned hunting and you said "target rifle with a few competitions".

The logical answer is a new 223 barrel - 24 or 26" M24 contour in a 1/7" twist. 223 or 223 ackley if you reload.

Most of the time when someone asks about a rifle or cartridge folks state "at a 1000 yards" blah blah blah.

Well, how often do you ACTUALLY shoot at a 1000?

So, just target shooting for enjoyment the 223 has distinct advantages over the 6.5 creed = less recoil, less blast, less cost per round which in turn equals more shooting.

It has been said many times that PRS comps are won inside of 800 yards - so a fast twist heavy 223 bullet can be competitive.

Again, this is my opinion - and none of us matter - it's your money, your gun, and your fun.

@Southern Custom your statement about getting the Remington close to the performance of a factory Bergara simply isn't true. He already has his rifle in a KRG stock, he didn't mention trigger which the factory Bergara trigger is not amazing. Your opinion is they are "fantastic", but again to you. I'm sure it's better than the Xmark pro, but the guy didn't mention his trigger. Also, it's well documented on the net that Bergara rifles are not without flaws and issues.

$700 for a Bartlien or similar quality barrel on his existing rifle puts his rifle ahead of any Bergara HMR and probably ahead of any factory rifle. If that wasn't true people would not be replacing factory tubes with custom tubes.

Now if he were starting from scratch and looking at a factory Remington vs factory Bergara...

 

[Qtip]

I have a 308, 65x47 and a 223. They all shoot great. I prefer to shoot the 223. It has a 26inch barrel, 7 twist barrel. Shoots the 75gr and 80 gr bullets extremely well. Shooting costs are lower, and gives the chance to practice wind reading.

 

[will67]

If it were me I'd give NSS a call and get a .223 Wylde Remage prefit and shoot that while I saved up for a 6.5 creedmoor. It really depends on what you use the rifle for the most. Are you happy with the performance of a .223.
How often you shoot?
What is your usual shooting distance?
What is your average round count per range session?
Do you reload?

 

[FCS]

Straight 223, freebore set up to put 80.5 Berger so BT / bearing is at N/S, feeds from 223 AICS mags and runs 3000 fps (+/-).

 

[Chickentoast]

If you don't already have 223 dies and want to do something with the small boltface, go 223ai remage barrel with FB/Twist for heavies. If buying new rifle, research projectiles first. Decide on projectile(s), how fast you want to run them, and select the cartridge that achieves the velocity most efficiently.

 

[1moaoff]

Maybe I missed it but what are you using it for specifically....
Matches, local only? How far is furthest target how far are most?
If 800 and in no need for 6.5

 

[2005ailes]

Hey guys thanks for all of the feedback, I really do appreciate it. But to answer a few questions, for the most part my local range where I will be doing 90% of my shooting is only 200 yards. but I do plan on shooting matches around the area for the most part I'm going to be under a thousand yards. My current 223 setup is in a KRG Whiskey 3 chassis and I'm running a pound-and-a-half Timney trigger with 68 gn BTHP running at about 2710 fps (and I do reload). I am happy with the current setup I have, but I do need to rebarrel somewhat soon. I just wanted to know if a bone stock factory Remington action and barrel 6.5 Creedmoor would be worth the upgrade. Or if I should just spent that money or a high end barrel with a better twist rate for a 80gn bullet and a worked action.

 

[1moaoff]

223
Continue on!

 

[Brazo]

Hey guys thanks for all of the feedback, I really do appreciate it. But to answer a few questions, for the most part my local range where I will be doing 90% of my shooting is only 200 yards. but I do plan on shooting matches around the area for the most part I'm going to be under a thousand yards. My current 223 setup is in a KRG Whiskey 3 chassis and I'm running a pound-and-a-half Timney trigger with 68 gn BTHP running at about 2710 fps (and I do reload). I am happy with the current setup I have, but I do need to rebarrel somewhat soon. I just wanted to know if a bone stock factory Remington action and barrel 6.5 Creedmoor would be worth the upgrade. Or if I should just spent that money or a high end barrel with a better twist rate for a 80gn bullet and a worked action.

Option 2 for me

 

[IndianaRem5r]

First of all, I'm sorry your range only has 200 yards max. That is not much fun for more than a .17 or .22 rimfire. If it is only one or the other, I would suggest the Bartlein .223 in 1:7 twist at about 26". I have a custom .223 and a custom 6.5 x 47 Lapua. Eventually, you will want both as well. Factory barrels generally are not going to get you to 1/2 MOA (there are exceptions) no matter how good your reloading skills are and the components you use. My 6.5 x 47 is a Bartlein barrel (by a smith) and is awesome. My .223 is a Criterion that I installed myself on a Savage action and it is 1/2-3/4 MOA and a blast to shoot. The 6.5 is Heavy Palma and the .223 is MTU contour. I like my barrels heavy. Anyway, do the high-end .223 and find a place where you can stretch it out for more distance. If you do find yourself shooting longer distances, save your pennies to start piecing together a custom in 6 mm or 6.5 mm of whatever flavor floats your boat. That can be down the road. Remember, your barrel is the #1 contributor to accuracy.

 

[...]

SH has a perpetual hard-on for 6.5...personally i say keep it as a kick ass .223.

i will take a well built .223 over a stock 6.5 any day.....as you can still EASILY reach out to 6-800 yds with a .223

you are limited to 200yds, it makes no sense to "upgrade" to a 6.5 when you are not even pushing the .223 at those ranges....the only benefit you will see is a lighter wallet.

why start over from scratch when you have a well shooting / well built rifle that you already own thats serving your needs just fine?

 

[Chickentoast]

^^And if you're considering 6.5 creed for ballistics, might as well move up to 284 win or shehane in std boltface. If comparing to 6.5 PRC, any 7mm with a mag bolt face also wins. Looking at projectiles, from 22 cal through 6.5mm, the highest BC's in each are very similar, which is why many have suggested the 223ai rebarrel, as it's most cost effective and yields a similar ballistic result with anything up to the 7mm's. 7mm compares with 30 and even 338 with some of the heaviest projectiles. My regular 223 in a 20" has no problem with 5 in a row @ 1 moa @ 1K yds with 75 eld-m's, as long as the wind is quiet.

 

[PAYDIRT]

Problem is will the stock 700 SPS 6.5cm shoot sub MOA without a bit of Smith work? That’ll blow the $700 budget.

Is this ever gonna end? Tell us about your terrible Rem 700 experience.

 

[Steel head]

Upgraded my 223 a bit.
Now for another 223 vs 6.5 shootout.
77 grains at 2700 vs 130 grains at 2975.

 

[Campguy308]

Is this ever gonna end? Tell us about your terrible Rem 700 experience.

My 700 223 shoots pretty good.

 

[PAYDIRT]

My 700 223 shoots pretty good.

But it can't it's a Rem 700 lmao
There were a few broken hearted deep pocket 6.5's that day. A 700 223 AI was 3rd and a 20" factory 223 SPS was 6th

 

[16 Gauge]

Stay with the 223 and you will learn to be a much better shooter
And save money doing it!

 

[NewsShooter]

Hey guys thanks for all of the feedback, I really do appreciate it. But to answer a few questions, for the most part my local range where I will be doing 90% of my shooting is only 200 yards. but I do plan on shooting matches around the area for the most part I'm going to be under a thousand yards. My current 223 setup is in a KRG Whiskey 3 chassis and I'm running a pound-and-a-half Timney trigger with 68 gn BTHP running at about 2710 fps (and I do reload). I am happy with the current setup I have, but I do need to rebarrel somewhat soon. I just wanted to know if a bone stock factory Remington action and barrel 6.5 Creedmoor would be worth the upgrade. Or if I should just spent that money or a high end barrel with a better twist rate for a 80gn bullet and a worked action.

Then .223 at 200 yards. 77 SMK's in factory ammo hang right with the creedmoor out to 600.

 

[Campguy308]

223/223AI fast twist some of the most fun you can have, especially suppressed.

 

[sleeplz]

Boouf

 

[Woollymonster]

New Bartlein barrel and have a competent gunsmith blueprint the action and chamber for 6.5 Creedmoor. That will be about 1000 x better than any off the shelf 700.

I have a Bartlein on my Impact Precision in M4 contour and 6mm Creedmoor. I don't shoot PRS much anymore so it may get a new 6.5 Bartlein when this one wears out.

 

[rottenruger]

Easy answer ... re-tool to 6.5 Creedmoor. It does everything better, all day long, twice on the weekends.
[/QUOTE

I bought an inexpensive Savage 6.5 CM.......it shot so damned good I had to get a RPR in 6.5. Got lucky, my RPR shoots VERY flat, will be fearful when barrel replacement time soon comes.

On the other hand, some of the tack shooters at my range use diff AR15 platforms, not the cheap ones, with fine scopes, and they ping the small steel at 500 yards all day long.

I'll admit I'm not knowledgeable about the Rem 700, although I hear LOTS of mostly good about it.

Cheers, keep your ammo stocks up, bad times are coming.