In my 224 Valkyrie, I can get 3400FPS with 25grs of Re#15 behind a 60gr bullet 2890 pushing a 75gr ELD with Re#15.5 and with 28grs of Alliant Power Pro 2000MR pushing a Berger 80.5 Full bore at 2950. All of these group 3/4-1.0MOA out of a W.O.P 23" Krieger bbl. Will this 22 ARC outperform this?
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22ARC vs the 224 Valkyrie
- Thread starter Iron Worker
- Start date
I’ve got some similar questions Iron.
I’m wanting to build a very light recoil trainer for 1000yds, but have been going back and forth between Valk or 22 Nosler.
Now enters 22 ARC.
My personal take on the trio is that Valk and Nos are losing popularity quickly. Be that performance claims, lack of product or lack of support and advertising. The latter absolutely applies to the Nosler. It is a fantastic design, but Nosler has done a horrific job of pushing its product since its 2017 release. Not to mention it’s proprietary brass.
As far as the Valk, I think Federal figured they had a bullet destined for legacy and it hasn’t gone precisely to plan.
Hornady on the other hand are masters of product advertisement, commercial support and component support. We can be pretty sure that Hornady will lead the pack in that regard. That all translates to popularity. From everything I’ve read and seen, the arc is marginally better than The Valk. I have seen or heard zero comparison to the Nosler. And that could be because an “unseen” adversary in the cartridge wars is exactly that.
I’ll assume the ARC will be a huge success, that’s Hornadys MO. Will it improve on fps, SD, ED over other similar cartridges on the market? Only time will tell
That loooong winded reply is my way of saying “wrung whatcha brung” for now. This may be a Blu-Ray vs HD-DVD scenario. Let’s watch how it plays out
I’m wanting to build a very light recoil trainer for 1000yds, but have been going back and forth between Valk or 22 Nosler.
Now enters 22 ARC.
My personal take on the trio is that Valk and Nos are losing popularity quickly. Be that performance claims, lack of product or lack of support and advertising. The latter absolutely applies to the Nosler. It is a fantastic design, but Nosler has done a horrific job of pushing its product since its 2017 release. Not to mention it’s proprietary brass.
As far as the Valk, I think Federal figured they had a bullet destined for legacy and it hasn’t gone precisely to plan.
Hornady on the other hand are masters of product advertisement, commercial support and component support. We can be pretty sure that Hornady will lead the pack in that regard. That all translates to popularity. From everything I’ve read and seen, the arc is marginally better than The Valk. I have seen or heard zero comparison to the Nosler. And that could be because an “unseen” adversary in the cartridge wars is exactly that.
I’ll assume the ARC will be a huge success, that’s Hornadys MO. Will it improve on fps, SD, ED over other similar cartridges on the market? Only time will tell
That loooong winded reply is my way of saying “wrung whatcha brung” for now. This may be a Blu-Ray vs HD-DVD scenario. Let’s watch how it plays out
Interesting. I have some 60g Sierras loaded for my Vlakirye with 25.4g of Varget. I need to run some over the chronograph to see how fast they are. I was shooting about that charge in my 26" 223 and I think it was about 3300. I would have went to the rang earlier but was 2 degrees outside. Now its 1. 
Over the last 2 year's I have seen more people shooting the valkyrie in gas gun matches , The guy's I talk to are running 73 grain eldm's right up close to 3000 fps . I have not run mine yet in a match . It will be interesting to see the 22 arc show up and how they will stack up between the two .
The 22 ARC is nothing new... it's the 22 PPC benchrest 100 to 200 yd cartridge of many yrs ago... recycled.
So it hss the potential to be very accurate, but the 6 mm PPC version (the 6mm ARC) was more accurate in the long haul in benchrest circles. They don't use Hornaday brass, and it's high pressure bolt guns.
The 224 Valkyrie can handle a bit more pressure in a bolt gun, the case capacity is close with the 22 ARC with slighty more...should be about the same in velocity. The 22 Nosler has more capacity and capable of more velocity, but has single load cartridge issues like the long bullets in 5.56 cartridge.
The ARC and Valkyrie don't offer much more in the lighter varmint bullets then a hot loaded 5.56 , probably get the 62 gr pretty close in the 5.56 as to the ARC, and the 5.56 will handle the pressure...brass is everywhere, & cheap, who cares if it's lost out shooting varmints.
I shoot the 224 Valkyrie and some loads are beating or similar to the 22 ARC in an AR platform.
Which would I choose? For what? Accuracy in the 3, 22s discussed I would hope the 22 ARC which is a 22PPC would carry on its DNA and for accuracy that would be my choice...My 224 Valkyrie was harder to get to shoot up the my expectations in the auto platform, .5" to .75" 5 shot groups at 100yds. The 6 mm ARC was easy after buying an expensive barrel...it was a total dog with the BA barrel 2.5" 5 shot groups with match ammo at 100yds. Change barrels .5" the first 5 shot group same smmo.
The 22 caliber rifles are not setting accuracy records like 6 mm's at any distance.
I'd start there... with the 6 mm Dasher, or 6mm BRA, in a bolt gun, where a .5," 5 shot group at 100 yds is ridiculously huge, and totally rejected as inaccurate, and a .3" is still kinda bad for the average shooter, Example 13 5 shot groups with different bullets and different powders averaged
.313" for all 13 5 shot groups... for an average shooter. Hard to beat a good 6 mm all the way to 1000 yds, for accuracy.
Not that a 22 can't get it done, they can, and do, but more records are set with the 6mm.
My all around choice in 22 has been the 5.56 for a long time...it's here, it's plentiful, and more or less, gets it done..just shoot em again.
So it hss the potential to be very accurate, but the 6 mm PPC version (the 6mm ARC) was more accurate in the long haul in benchrest circles. They don't use Hornaday brass, and it's high pressure bolt guns.
The 224 Valkyrie can handle a bit more pressure in a bolt gun, the case capacity is close with the 22 ARC with slighty more...should be about the same in velocity. The 22 Nosler has more capacity and capable of more velocity, but has single load cartridge issues like the long bullets in 5.56 cartridge.
The ARC and Valkyrie don't offer much more in the lighter varmint bullets then a hot loaded 5.56 , probably get the 62 gr pretty close in the 5.56 as to the ARC, and the 5.56 will handle the pressure...brass is everywhere, & cheap, who cares if it's lost out shooting varmints.
I shoot the 224 Valkyrie and some loads are beating or similar to the 22 ARC in an AR platform.
Which would I choose? For what? Accuracy in the 3, 22s discussed I would hope the 22 ARC which is a 22PPC would carry on its DNA and for accuracy that would be my choice...My 224 Valkyrie was harder to get to shoot up the my expectations in the auto platform, .5" to .75" 5 shot groups at 100yds. The 6 mm ARC was easy after buying an expensive barrel...it was a total dog with the BA barrel 2.5" 5 shot groups with match ammo at 100yds. Change barrels .5" the first 5 shot group same smmo.
The 22 caliber rifles are not setting accuracy records like 6 mm's at any distance.
I'd start there... with the 6 mm Dasher, or 6mm BRA, in a bolt gun, where a .5," 5 shot group at 100 yds is ridiculously huge, and totally rejected as inaccurate, and a .3" is still kinda bad for the average shooter, Example 13 5 shot groups with different bullets and different powders averaged
.313" for all 13 5 shot groups... for an average shooter. Hard to beat a good 6 mm all the way to 1000 yds, for accuracy.
Not that a 22 can't get it done, they can, and do, but more records are set with the 6mm.
My all around choice in 22 has been the 5.56 for a long time...it's here, it's plentiful, and more or less, gets it done..just shoot em again.
According to Hornady the 22 ARC is literally a SAAMI approved 22 Grendel. The case shoulder is placed at the same position as the 6.5 Grendel parent case, not 30 thou further back like on the 6 ARC.
And yes, the 6 ARC is basically a 6mm PPC.
I did not look at actual drawings, some were comparing the 22PC to the 22 ARC, in this case I believe someone said the shoulder of the 22PPC was back farther than the 22 ARC, I believe that to be the case without looking.
Back to your page, I have not compared the 22 ARC with the 6mmARC or the 6.5 grendel. I'll take your word it, you cared to look it up.
They are very similar and its an already improved case with minimal neck...but some have went to 40° and shorter neck still to get a little more out of the grendel case. Robert Whitley and his grendel line of cases comes to mind, I believe his turbo line was 40° shoulders.
He had load data on line yrs ago for all his wildcats including the 30 grendel, and his were for the AR platform not bolt guns.
They have been wildcating the 220 Russian for many years, in bench rest, which came from the AK 7.62x39 brass case. It really doesn't matter if one has a 30° shoulder or 40° shoulder, neck slightly shorter, to maximize powder space...the small changes so you can call it "your wildcat" or the 6mm ARC, are irrelevant, it's nothing new, ...in .22 cal or 6mm.
The 6 mm PPC was introduced in 1975, Hornady calls a very similar, almost identical cartridge the 6mm ARC, advertising the hell out of it like it's something new, and special.
I like the 6mm ARC, I have two, but it's far from something new, or invented by Hornady.
Had to come quote yourself just to bitch about it more months later. 
Guess what chief. 6 arc isn't a wildcat. That's where its diffrent. I can buy factory ammo and brass all over.
Guess what chief. 6 arc isn't a wildcat. That's where its diffrent. I can buy factory ammo and brass all over.224 Valkyrie ran into issues immediately with some first batch reamers. Then barrel twist questions about 6.5 vs 7 for the 90s Federal was selling. I was an early adopter and built a 20 inch upper with 6.5 twist in 224V - it does well with Federal brass and 80 ELDMs over H4895. 224V seems to work better with 80s vs 90s. I am almost out of 80ELDMs and will switch to 75ELDMs as they seem available.
Not all were wildcats, there, "chief", as many already know ...Sako made factory rifles and ammo for some, in 6mm and 22 calibers, factory cases, and ammo available for others, but they didn't have the hype added and the big advertising of Hornady, calling it "advanced", and it will be "the next military cartridge."Had to come quote yourself just to bitch about it more months later.
Same with Hornady PRC line...those were all made previously by, several others.
Imperial cartridge line of Canada, off the 404 Jeffery case, made factory rifles and cartridges, Dakota Arms rifles, and factory cartridges, Lazerroni Arms line of rifles and factory cartridges, Arnold Arms, all made magnums off the same or similar cases, and sold many factory rifles and factory cartridges.
But after so many years in business they all folded, cause only so many people want big magnums. And LR and LR steel shooting was not as popular.
While Hornady is totally diversified, great advertising, but they do have trouble meeting demand after introducing their new lines of, already been done cartridges, with special names and a bunch of advertising hype.
Some of which have been total failures, gone before the supply of brass ever meets the public, no rifles are now even chambered for some of "their new" cartridges, Hornady/Ruger cartridges, or Hornady/ Marlin cartridges. The market is flooded with alot of cartridges that do the same thing, or just slightly more powder capacity...I like choice, but look at the crowded current 300 magnum line, it's a bit ridiculous. Stay informed.
Go, get some ammo for one at Walmart, cheif.
I didn't read the rest. I don't care enough about your bloviation.
Then stay uninformed...
Many Walmarts do not carry guns, and ammo.
Depends on location, ...and recent mass shootings... cause more to drop long guns and ammo.
Then, two large Walmarts here were closed recently, because of massive crowd theft...they did not carry guns and ammo..for obvious reasons.
My AR 224 Valkyrie was running 80 gr ELDM at an ave of 2975 fps ...with a 24" barrel, 10 shots into 1.1" according to my notes...
I used the 95 gr SMK at 2712 fps 8.7 S/D as my standard load capable of printing less than half inch groups.
But the 224 Valkyrie took extra steps to get it to be accurate, centering the bolt carrier really worked with this cartridge...much more then any other, along with a 6.5 twist barrel.
But they are close enough it doesn't matter which one you're using as long as you're satisfied with its performance.
maybe im in luck. my 224 shotting about 2650 with 88eld. sd around 10 ish. 1 Moa pretty consistent. But that is the long throat barrel. Hard to get the mag length COL to work. Play with standar throat barrel see if it works. The 22 arc looks promising. Just don't see that much advantage of it yet. nor starline start making brass for it. So probably stay with 224 until then.
What is the most case capacity/ fastest you get get a 80-90 class bullet going cartridge that will fit in a AR15?
The case capacity I got off the webb
224 Valkyrie 34.5 gr h2o
22 ARC 34.0 gr h2o
But I measured one of my 224 Valkyrie cases and got 33.8 grH2o
There is a difference in capacity and weight between different brands.
These two are close to twins in capacity.
In 1958 the 222 magnum was introduced with 33.3 gr h2o, nothing is new.
But the Valkyrie should have an edge in autos it gets to run at slightly higher pressures because it has a bit more meat on the AR bolt....if one could consider 40 fps an edge....maybe, maybe not.
I have some load data from an AR 15 24" 6.5 twist 224 Valkyrie is some want to compare it to the 22 ARC in an auto.
77 Nosler 2979 fps 14 /SD
75 gr Horn BTHP match 2991 fps 9.8 S/D
80 gr eldm 2975 23.9S/D
75 gr Amax 3002 16.3 S/D
88 gr eldm 2842 ave 15.5 S/D
95 gr SMK group 1, 2707 fps ave 16.0 S/D,
Group 2 2712 ave, 8.7 S/D, Group 3, 2708 fps ave 10.6 S/D.
These were with RL 17, 2000 MR is supposed to be the speed powder, which it is in other cartridges, but I haven't loaded it the 224 Valkyrie.
I guess I will have to do so.
The 223 WSSM will not fit in an AR 15.
The .535" dia case rim and .555" body head dia, is too large. It would be a special build, not available.
You'd have to go with an AR 10, with a magnum bolt, with your 223 WSSM, and that is available.
Here are AR 15 capable the other would be the 458 SOCOM necked to 22.
L to R 30RAR 45.3 gr h20
6 ARC about 34 gr h2o
224 Valkyrie about 34 gr h2o
The 30 RAR/.22 would use RL 22, RL 25, & RL 26 especially good, even at lower pressure.
Longer barrels would be utilized to burn the extra powder, may not be your cup of tea.
Mags, no issue but 5 rds are whats available. The barrels would have to be machined, & reamer ordered
L to R 30RAR 45.3 gr h20
6 ARC about 34 gr h2o
224 Valkyrie about 34 gr h2o
The 30 RAR/.22 would use RL 22, RL 25, & RL 26 especially good, even at lower pressure.
Longer barrels would be utilized to burn the extra powder, may not be your cup of tea.
Mags, no issue but 5 rds are whats available. The barrels would have to be machined, & reamer ordered
Attachments
Dtech Custom AR-15 WSSM Upper Recievers
Dtechs line of AR-15 WSSM Upper recievers .243 WSSM, .25 WSSM, .358 WSSM, .300 OSSM
www.dtechuppers.com
Yep, it's like I said, "It doesn't fit unless it's a special build." Well it's a special build.Dtech Custom AR-15 WSSM Upper Recievers
Dtechs line of AR-15 WSSM Upper recievers .243 WSSM, .25 WSSM, .358 WSSM, .300 OSSMwww.dtechuppers.com
Check the size of his bolt diameter to that of a standard AR 15 bolt, that "must fit" the standard AR 15 barrel extension. Like comparing the 223 to the Grendel bolt and seeing how thin the grendel bolt is pressure must be kept lower so ya dont blow the bolt lugs off.
But this bolt is a behemoth by comparison or non standard, with a non standard barrel extension to match, with a beefier billit upper to hold it all together.
Good on the maker, now you can have your 223 WSM or 243 WSM in an AR 15 if you can find the brass these days.
Dtech Custom AR-15 WSSM Upper Recievers
Dtechs line of AR-15 WSSM Upper recievers .243 WSSM, .25 WSSM, .358 WSSM, .300 OSSMwww.dtechuppers.com
Olympic was doing them more than a decade ago(maybe two I'm not in the loop) so it's nothing new. There have been several.
You are correct I forgot about Olympic Arms. That makes a couple of makers, but I don't think they sold well or were accurate. I remember quite a bit of negative feed back.
So that means all that want one can get one. They have some manufacturer machining the special bolts, barrel extensions, billet uppers, as it's not a standard AR 15 item ...yet. And probably never will be.
A few 300 WM have been built in an AR 10 also...special machined parts are needed and rather expensive.
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