The JP will hold the bolt open on the last round with Black Dog mags, basically the mag follower comes up high enough that the bolt rams into it and stops when empty. Bolt catch is basically non-functional. You can put a Catch22 in it and it will function, but but the mag will not engage it. So the follower still stops the bolt, then you have to pull it to the rear and manually engage the bolt catch. That or you just accept the bolt is going to drop every time you drop an empty mag. Due to the bolt design it also won't take a Better Mag Adapter and the S&W mags as many use to get true last round bolt hold open with the bolt catch.
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22LR SASS/AR - What’s the most accurate and most reliable out there?
- Thread starter jharms80439
- Start date
Pretty stupid question, but would an airgun shooting .22 pellets like this $350 Sig MXC Pellet gun be a great option for dry fire training for 3-gun? Is that different than what OP is asking for? I ask because the 22lr gun OP refers to might be similar but more expensive, and I don't know anything about airguns but if this could work it would be a great option and I'd pick one of these up to.
That's interesting, I mean one of the big reasons you always hear about is that the .22 trainer is popular because the trajectory is so horrible that it simulates longer range shooting on much shorter ranges, and that it's "cheap" to shoot. Though I think you have to shoot a lot of .22 ammo to make up for the $6k guys are dropping on them in ammo savings. An airsoft gun would probably do the same job, much cheaper, on an even shorter range. The only downside is guys can't drop $6k on them (maybe you can I have no idea).
When I did research on 22 uppers, I seem to remember a spacer that allowed SW mags to be used which gave you last round bolt hold.
I found none better than Sig522 Target as far as reliability and accuracy of semi-auto 22. Put Hawke HV 22 scopes on it and I hunt cottontail rabbits here in Wisconsin with it and have no issues delivering a head shot from my blind at ~150-175m. Only thing I Modified on both rifles - had my gunsmith machine a knob/nipple so folding stock can stay locked in (as in regular sig522 rigs) AND (because extractor spring is very weak and with fouling did not want to extract reliably) I put a tiny ball bearing in an extractor spring channel and increased tension on it.. oh, screwed in rails on that Hogue freefloating tube so I get shit mounted to it ad Hogue cuff is like un-obtanium and I could not find a second one.. 22s are two on the left, in their current configuration...
Back in the 1990's, I owned a break-open "Biathlon Trainer" .177 air rifle, with adjustable peep sights. I took it camping, and used it down in my Bud's basement. The rifle you show would be orders of magnitude better.
I own and practiced with an ancient used Savage MKII and a Ruger 10/22. As important was/is the ten magazines I own for each.
The MKII taught many youngsters the basics of marksmanship, with six of them earning NRA Rimfire Distinguished Expert.
It very effectively educated me in how to use the various gyrations my body went though in the offhand position. Even though it had an atrocious (and slowly, continuously degrading) trigger, it helped my pick up the lost points in my N/M High Power Offhand stage.
It was very much worth the effort to work with, and much of that muscle memory is still with me today.
At various times, training strategies like the Parris Island Snap-In, endless repetition of sitting position shooting with the 10/22, and those offhand Air Rifle experiences brought my competitive edge up into the competitive pack of the other N/M shooters. Marksmen are NOT born, they are trained, and it takes a LOT of training.
When your trigger really sucks and you've been out there for a couple of hours just single-shooting away, concepts like The Wobble Zone become an ally, rather than a foe.
There ain't no free lunch and there ain't n such thing as too much practice. Just about when you say to yourself "I'm whipped here", and you then step up for another round of practice anyway; that's when the real, lasting improvement starts.
Just do it.
Greg
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So, as I mentioned previously, I picked up a Keystone Accuracy upper. This one is pretty decked out too - barrel weight, long barrel, etc.
With the scope and rail I had on hand, I added another rail with a 20MOA slant. I'm still sorting the Black Dog Machine (metal lipped) magazines with Black Dog as mine (the 5 that I bought months before I received the upper) won't feed correctly. BD is REPLACING my 5 magazines too - EXCELLENT CUSTOMER SERVICE!!
So, with a 4lb trigger and off of a crappy (half A$$'d) bench, 10 shot 100 yard groups were ~1"+ (very slightly over 1") and 50 yards were ~1/2"+ (again only very slightly over 1/2"). This was with SK Long Range Match ammo - same as what I run in my Tikka and the barrel weight set in the middle of it's range.
The lube does gunk the action quite a bit. I'm going to eventually try some dry lube in the action. I'm also going to thoroughly wipe off the lube on the SK LRM to see if it is cleaner.
With the BobSled, single round fire was great (but that's not what I'm after) and the bolt locked back each time. With a plastic lipped BD mag, I struggled initially a bit (unfamiliarity?) with it a bit - range didn't have great lighting, I'm working to zero, etc. - it shot fine, repeatable, no real stoppages, failures to feed/fire. So..really I just need time with the rifle - but I think that I'm on the right track.
BTW, no, I didn't take pics of the groups - yet. However, two different shooters produced the groups mentioned above.
Need to install a set of pins at the end of the arca rail yet - so my tripod doesn't go off the back of the rail (magazine side of the rail). Other nits that I just need to work out are there too.
Oh, and the CMMG forward assist is a Godsend when using lubed ammo. Dirty action (at ~120 rounds) & lubed ammo produced a few failures of the bolt to fully go into battery. Forward assist ratcheted it into battery fine. And it really only occurred 2-3 times over ~120 rounds.
So far, really good.
If I can get some practice time over the Winter, I'll slay the steel matches next year. Well, either me or my buddy will. One of the intent's of this build was to have an extra rifle for a buddy who only shoots AR's (And) an AR trainer for me. He shot it yesterday and was really impressed with the accuracy at distance. Can't wait to push it to 200+ yards.
Over the coming months, I expect to learn lots.
So. In the end - and again, I'm not quite done yet - there are AR-22's that are accurate as heck and that are very reliable. My vote - Keystone Accuracy.
John
With the scope and rail I had on hand, I added another rail with a 20MOA slant. I'm still sorting the Black Dog Machine (metal lipped) magazines with Black Dog as mine (the 5 that I bought months before I received the upper) won't feed correctly. BD is REPLACING my 5 magazines too - EXCELLENT CUSTOMER SERVICE!!
So, with a 4lb trigger and off of a crappy (half A$$'d) bench, 10 shot 100 yard groups were ~1"+ (very slightly over 1") and 50 yards were ~1/2"+ (again only very slightly over 1/2"). This was with SK Long Range Match ammo - same as what I run in my Tikka and the barrel weight set in the middle of it's range.
The lube does gunk the action quite a bit. I'm going to eventually try some dry lube in the action. I'm also going to thoroughly wipe off the lube on the SK LRM to see if it is cleaner.
With the BobSled, single round fire was great (but that's not what I'm after) and the bolt locked back each time. With a plastic lipped BD mag, I struggled initially a bit (unfamiliarity?) with it a bit - range didn't have great lighting, I'm working to zero, etc. - it shot fine, repeatable, no real stoppages, failures to feed/fire. So..really I just need time with the rifle - but I think that I'm on the right track.
BTW, no, I didn't take pics of the groups - yet. However, two different shooters produced the groups mentioned above.
Need to install a set of pins at the end of the arca rail yet - so my tripod doesn't go off the back of the rail (magazine side of the rail). Other nits that I just need to work out are there too.
Oh, and the CMMG forward assist is a Godsend when using lubed ammo. Dirty action (at ~120 rounds) & lubed ammo produced a few failures of the bolt to fully go into battery. Forward assist ratcheted it into battery fine. And it really only occurred 2-3 times over ~120 rounds.
So far, really good.
If I can get some practice time over the Winter, I'll slay the steel matches next year. Well, either me or my buddy will. One of the intent's of this build was to have an extra rifle for a buddy who only shoots AR's (And) an AR trainer for me. He shot it yesterday and was really impressed with the accuracy at distance. Can't wait to push it to 200+ yards.
Over the coming months, I expect to learn lots.
So. In the end - and again, I'm not quite done yet - there are AR-22's that are accurate as heck and that are very reliable. My vote - Keystone Accuracy.
John
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