I will. I rather enjoy such things. Its hard to know where to start and stop with the details. I get obsessed with details some day lol.Thank you. This kind of reply is most welcome. I look forward to a report as it should be very useful.
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I will. I rather enjoy such things. Its hard to know where to start and stop with the details. I get obsessed with details some day lol.Thank you. This kind of reply is most welcome. I look forward to a report as it should be very useful.
You want things handed to you. People have tested and responded with their findings, myself included. Would you like to know why I tested it? Because I wanted to know. I put in the time, effort and money. You are welcome to do the same if you don’t see things tested how you would like the test run. I’m not defensive at all. I just like to see people take initiative and move things forward. Not wait for someone else to do it for them.It's surprising that this effortless response as unhelpful as it seems defensive. It's unfortunate when questions are resented or seen as threatening.
When many shooters on threads like this -- and manufacturers too -- insist that faster twist barrels are better than standard, however, there should be meaningful evidence that can be cited to support the contention. Yet there's little or no empirical evidence that anyone seems willing to share. Readers may do well to wonder why.
Geno, your response is a bit of an over-reaction, like you're protecting special turf from transgression.You want things handed to you. People have tested and responded with their findings, myself included. Would you like to know why I tested it? Because I wanted to know. I put in the time, effort and money. You are welcome to do the same if you don’t see things tested how you would like the test run. I’m not defensive at all. I just like to see people take initiative and move things forward. Not wait for someone else to do it for them.
If you’d like to setup and pay for my slow and fast twist barres to get tested back to back at Lapua or eley, I would send them. But, I also will say, that is also not a direct comparison because it’s not the same barrel. Two slow twist barrels don’t shoot the same, so why would two battle with different twists. If you’re looking for statistical significance, you’re going to have to be willing to buy even more barrels that me and be willing to spend a ton on ammo and tunnel time. I’d like to see your findings added to mine and others though. That way he can build a sample size to better please people unwilling to believe the results from others
We found the radar show no increase in bc with the increased twist rate. At least not in any statistically significant manner.
That’s not to say that I haven’t observed better groups the farther out they’re shot. Doesn’t make sense but seems to hold true in my testing.
That's perfectly acceptable. An admission of not knowing is always preferable to unreliable information.My honest opinion is that I do not know if it helps at 200+ yards, but I certainly do not think it is hurting anything.
Geno, your response is a bit of an over-reaction, like you're protecting special turf from transgression.
Six days ago I asked two simple questions, neither of which were meant to offend or trespass:
Has there been any chronograph data from the testing referred to published comparing standard and fast twist barrels?
Has there been any reliable target data such as target results published in this forum or anywhere else comparing standard and fast Clearly, there doesn't appear to be any results from comprehensive testing. If such results don't exist, that's fine. And if they do and aren't being published, that's a bit curious but fine, too.gun capable of shooting 10 s For what it's worth, here's my first experience with a fast twist barrel. I only compete. in 100 and 200yd matches. To compete at 100yds I need a
Just finished testing a 22in 9t on my 2013 Anschutz. This gun is set up for 200yd competition only. I have two excellent barrels. one Anschutz 27iin 16t and one custom Lilja 21in 16t. Just purchased a 22in 9t Lilja. Tested this fast twist at 50,100 and 200yds with poor results. It will not shoot with either one of my 16t barrels at these ranges. Definitely does not like Eley flat nose .Shoots Round nose Lapua and RWS better but still not up to my 16t barrelsGeno, your response is a bit of an over-reaction, like you're protecting special turf from transgression.
Six days ago I asked two simple questions, neither of which were meant to offend or trespass:
Has there been any chronograph data from the testing referred to published comparing standard and fast twist barrels?
Has there been any reliable target data such as target results published in this forum or anywhere else comparing standard and fast twist barrels?
I was thinking that if the information is out there, perhaps someone would be so kind as to offer directions to it. Other shooters may also be interested in how standard and fast twist barrels compare.
To the first question, you responded
That was as satisfactory as any response to the first question.
With regard to the second question, a small number of targets comparing standard and fast twist results were posted.
One shooter offered an honest "I don't know"
That's perfectly acceptable. An admission of not knowing is always preferable to unreliable information.
Clearly, there doesn't appear to be any results from comprehensive testing. If such results don't exist, that's fine. And if they do and aren't being published, that's a bit curious but fine, too.
For what it's worth. Just finished testing a 22in 9t on my 2013 Anschutz. This gun is set up for 200yd competition only. I have two excellent barrels. one Anschutz 27iin 16t and one custom Lilja 21in 16t. Just purchased a 22in 9t Lilja. Tested this fast twist at 50,100 and 200yds with poor results. It will not shoot with either one of my 16t barrels at these ranges. Definitely does not like Eley flat nose .Shoots Round nose Lapua and RWS better but still not up to my 16t barrels. After having gone through a brick of excellent lot tested ammo I still don't know if the poor accuracy of this barrel is due to the twist rate or it's just a bad barrel. At $450 per barrel I'll probably never know. I've read a lot of post on fast twist barrels. Some saying their fast twist out shoot the standard 16t at longer ranges. How do they know it's the twist rate or it's just a overall better barrel. There's a lot more to barrel accuracy than just twist rate!
With my 9t, no. After 750-900ish shots down the barrel now, it's run-in and the distinct lack of flyers is impressive.Absolutely agreed. There are other ways to compare things.
Did you find that you had wild unexplainable flyers with the 1-9?
I should have quoted @littlesister as I know people thats tried 1-9 and got fliers. So wondered if its the same.With my 9t, no. After 750-900ish shots down the barrel now, it's run-in and the distinct lack of flyers is impressive.
ZERO visual difference at 100 or less, it's in the 150-300m where it shines. 385m on a Kyl rack has been my current best distance. I'll take it to 500m next weekend, possibly on video too.
I can find out if you really want.Any idea what swan uses for bore dimentions?
Not sure it really matters. I'm just the curious type and wonder if bore dimensions really matter. Some guys swear its the most important part.I can find out if you really want.
You could rifle then profile and still have the same effect by and large.Years ago I learned of an explanation why anschutz shot better than most.
Know how the barrels have a slightly larger muzzle end, and a dove tail for the front sight to attach ? The theory is that they profiled the barrels THEN rifled them. The slight increase in material would not "give" as much during button rifling, and result in a very slight choke-style muzzle diameter.
This helped preserve the barrel life, and performance of the bullets.
No idea if the rumour was true, but it does make sense and align with how they did things. The whole front sight cut was a ruse to throw off the other makers.
You nailed it!!!Absolutely agreed. There are other ways to compare things.
Did you find that you had wild unexplainable flyers with the 1-9?
You nailed it. To go into a bit more detail about my 9t testing. I saw some really good 5 shot groups at 50,100 and 200. some equaled my 16t barrels but never better. The problem was these unexpected flyers. They were really bad flyers. At least 1moa out of the group and every group had at least 1..
I have a 1:9 from Lilja for my 457 and I didn’t get the groups that I expected either. Was working on the zero and then getting some shots in at 100yards for groups, so I didn’t get a chance to really work it. I need to tweak the trigger and adjust the head space, based on failures to extract, so maybe that will affect thingsJust finished testing a 22in 9t on my 2013 Anschutz. This gun is set up for 200yd competition only. I have two excellent barrels. one Anschutz 27iin 16t and one custom Lilja 21in 16t. Just purchased a 22in 9t Lilja. Tested this fast twist at 50,100 and 200yds with poor results. It will not shoot with either one of my 16t barrels at these ranges. Definitely does not like Eley flat nose .Shoots Round nose Lapua and RWS better but still not up to my 16t barrels
If you wouldn't mind, could you explain your experience? What length was your barrel? Threaded? Reading back through your posts, didn't you send it to Lapua? Thanks in advance.I officially gave up on my 1:9 twist yesterday and sent it off to get rebarreled.
24” non threaded. Sent it to lapua and the results were not good in their testing. When I first got it I won a match with it before sending it off to Lapua. When I got it back from lapua I shot a 6x5 with the ammo that tested the “best” and my worst group was better than their best at 50 yards. I have pictures of targets I can dig out if anyone is interested. I put thousands of rounds through it trying to convince myself it either shot or it didn’t. The problem was it did shoot great just not consistently because it would throw rounds out of the groups. I would start questioning myself if maybe I just suck. Once I got out with my 1:16 Vudoo and my 1:9 and shot multiple 6x5’s it was pretty clear. The 1:9 was just as accurate with the best groups but overall the most consistent thing about the groups were they were inconsistent. If having it lot tested at Lapua and shooting the same ammo which is random to my 1:16, and the 1:16 is consistently more accurate I felt like I had put enough time and money into it. I really wanted it to work. The heavier barrel was awesome compared to the MTU on my 1:16. I tried everything I knew to try switching stocks, scopes, triggers, even tracking which mags the best groups came out of. Results remained the same.If you wouldn't mind, could you explain your experience? What length was your barrel? Threaded? Reading back through your posts, didn't you send it to Lapua? Thanks in advance.
Thanks for taking the time to explain your experience.24” non threaded. Sent it to lapua and the results were not good in their testing. When I first got it I won a match with it before sending it off to Lapua. When I got it back from lapua I shot a 6x5 with the ammo that tested the “best” and my worst group was better than their best at 50 yards. I have pictures of targets I can dig out if anyone is interested. I put thousands of rounds through it trying to convince myself it either shot or it didn’t. The problem was it did shoot great just not consistently because it would throw rounds out of the groups. I would start questioning myself if maybe I just suck. Once I got out with my 1:16 Vudoo and my 1:9 and shot multiple 6x5’s it was pretty clear. The 1:9 was just as accurate with the best groups but overall the most consistent thing about the groups were they were inconsistent. If having it lot tested at Lapua and shooting the same ammo which is random to my 1:16, and the 1:16 is consistently more accurate I felt like I had put enough time and money into it. I really wanted it to work. The heavier barrel was awesome compared to the MTU on my 1:16. I tried everything I knew to try switching stocks, scopes, triggers, even tracking which mags the best groups came out of. Results remained the same.
No problem. With all the talk about the 1:9 I really wanted to try it for myself. I’m not saying it won’t work even though for me it did not. I still like to think with a magic lot of ammo it would have been great but if sending it to Lapua and buying what tested best doesn’t do it then I’m not sure what would have. I’ll probably pick up a Rim X for future fast twist testing because doing it with a Vudoo isn’t cheap when it comes time to rebarrel lol.Thanks for taking the time to explain your experience.
He may have worked out the variables but most people I know of have had limited success with 1-9. Even when you talk to Vudoo its in testing. I'm not a fan of picky. If 1-9 creates picky I'm out.Voodoo isn’t cheap, but it’s a great action and he has worked out the variables in regards to twist, it would seem. Buy once, cry once; or feel around in the dark…
That’s why I’m thinking a tuner may end up being mandatory with 9t barrels, - or at least that is what I’m doing since my 22x9t barrel is threaded. I do wonder if cutting back the barrel to remove the threads or leaving it long and tuning it is better. I’m leaning towards leaving it threaded and tuning it.
Saying 9t barrels don't like threaded muzzles is simply saying they need muzzle choke in order to shoot well. I would not cut my barrel unless I had it slugged to determine if it has any tight spots and at what length they are. Extremely ammo sensitive is something to think about. I owned an ammo sensitive Calfee benchrest chambered for eley 10x . I have ordered as many as 10 different lots of Eley 10x only to find it didn't like any of them. With todays ammo shortages It would be very difficult to find "that lot". As for tuners. they help eliminate vertical but I've never seen a tuner turn a bad barrel into a shooter. My 9t problems are crazy flyers. Most occurred at 5 oclock low right. A Harrel's tuner would not eliminate them.That’s why I’m thinking a tuner may end up being mandatory with 9t barrels, - or at least that is what I’m doing since my 22x9t barrel is threaded. I do wonder if cutting back the barrel to remove the threads or leaving it long and tuning it is better. I’m leaning towards leaving it threaded and tuning it.
Interesting insights. I’m not counting on the tuner making a A bad barrel into a good barrel or a good one into a great one. I also don’t think it will take bad ammo and turn it into good ammo. I think at best it is going to make it so you can match a barrel and ammo to optimize what they’re capable of.Saying 9t barrels don't like threaded muzzles is simply saying they need muzzle choke in order to shoot well. I would not cut my barrel unless I had it slugged to determine if it has any tight spots and at what length they are. Extremely ammo sensitive is something to think about. I owned an ammo sensitive Calfee benchrest chambered for eley 10x . I have ordered as many as 10 different lots of Eley 10x only to find it didn't like any of them. With todays ammo shortages It would be very difficult to find "that lot". As for tuners. they help eliminate vertical but I've never seen a tuner turn a bad barrel into a shooter. My 9t problems are crazy flyers. Most occurred at 5 oclock low right. A Harrel's tuner would not eliminate them.
This is one that drives me nuts. What the heck is going on when 2/3 of my dropped points are a nice little group of their own?. My 9t problems are crazy flyers. Most occurred at 5 oclock low right. A Harrel's tuner would not eliminate them.
So are you consistently seeing the faster twist is less effected by the wind?View attachment 8013485
From a PRS rimfire comp today. 10 shots, 60 sec, gun starts in prone in position, shooter starts standing 2m behind, with magazine in hand.
Only shots within 9 ring count, no breaking or touching line, must be in. Was a ~2.1moa shot. 100m distance. I was the only one in the comp who cleaned this stage. I used SK standard plus (yellow box), and i use a 9twist swan barrel. Aussie made.
Wind was a bitch, tail wind, real switchy. Still, 45sec for 10 shots and i was done.
What weight copper bullet are you shooting in the 9t?As yet, no.
I have also been working with the aussie distrib for cutting edge, who has the 22cal CURX pills and reloading dies. He just got a 7 twist to mess with, however in my 9t, they shoot exceptionally well.
Ive got 1200 rounds in the 9t, it was testing the CURX 2 weeks ago, was fully cleaned (for baseline) and was fine. Notjing to report. I have not shot it since the testing 2 weeks ago, didnt clean it, and shot this match, came 2nd overall. (In finale).
Remember it’s a match grade hand lapped barrel, not some factory tube.
No sir.MB,
In your tests of high twist rate rimfire barrels, have you noticed an increase in leading of the bore?
The 32 and 42gr, and when the 7t is fitted, will try the 50gr.What weight copper bullet are you shooting in the 9t?
Honestly not sure what happened here. Having a full custom setup, VS stock tikka t1x, bergara and c457.. not a fair comparison.So are you consistently seeing the faster twist is less effected by the wind?